Lowering of drink drive limit - Nanny state strikes again

careca11

Hank_Jones wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0922/drink.html



Why do we have to conform with everything that the EU do?

We have politicians that are a bunch of sheep, lowering the limit by such a small percentage isn't going to affect those that are drink driving.

If people want to drink drive, they are going to, shouldn't punish the people that want to go for one and drive home.

I think drink driving should be punished with mandatory prison sentence 6months or more , getting a couple of penalty points and a small fine is not detering people from doing it , so perhaps prison life might.
There is simply no excuse for drink driving (not even one) in this day and age.

chipsdave

could safely say that I drive BETTER after a few pints

nxbyveromdwjpg

careca11 wrote: »

I think drink driving should be punished with mandatory prison sentence 6months or more , getting a couple of penalty points and a small fine is not detering people from doing it , so perhaps prison life might.
There is simply no excuse for drink driving (not even one) in this day and age.

This is a revenue earner.
And prison for a bottle of beer? You're a nut.

careca11

nm wrote: »

This is a revenue earner.
And prison for a bottle of beer? You're a nut.

you would change your attitude if you or a family member where a victim of drunk driving tosspot with no respect for anyone else on the road , thats for sure

unit24

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

What you gotta love is the Vitner's Federation take on this: "new drink-driving limits are killing the pub business!!! OMFGz!!1!1!"

It's the extortionate prices that publicans are charging for pints that is killing their business, thank you very much.

You havent a clue. You try running a pub. You moron. dont comment on something you no nothing about. the cost involved in running a pub are huge and at €4.00 a pint. Its far from extortionate. I had a pub in the country and couldnt suvive even when i cut drink prices to as low as i possibly could.

#thinking you might consider. Rates €3G+ Insurance €3G+ heating €2G+ wages €52g electric €9.6g just to name a few

seamus

chipsdave wrote: »

could safely say that I drive BETTER after a few pints

You're better looking, more charming, stronger and more intelligent too.

GaryMunster

Is this the equivalent to half a pint now? So if you go for 5 pints the night before, wake up the next morning you could be over the limit?

XxMCRxBabyxX

careca11 wrote: »

nm wrote: »

This is a revenue earner.
And prison for a bottle of beer? You're a nut.

you would change your attitude if you or a family member where a victim of drunk driving tosspot with no respect for anyone else on the road , thats for sure

Can we PLEASE ban this stuff being said.

Everyone seems to feel the need to bring up some experience with a drunk driver. We all know the stories and tend to know at least one person with an experience. That doesn't make people change their attitudes.

Some serious self-righteous crap up on here.

Emotional feeling should NOT affect policy making

And this is aimed at everyone. Not just careca

Uriel.

XxMCRxBabyxX wrote: »

Can we PLEASE ban this stuff being said.

Everyone seems to feel the need to bring up some experience with a drunk driver. We all know the stories and tend to know at least one person with an experience. That doesn't make people change their attitudes.

Some serious self-righteous crap up on here.

Emotional feeling should NOT affect policy making

And this is aimed at everyone. Not just careca

I actually agree. It doesn't bring much to the argument really. I do feel for people who have lost someone through a road accident but we really need to look at the facts (I don't know them btw).

Realistically you can say something like 90% of road traffic deaths involve a car... therefore cars should be banned... bit of a joke really...

Yes. People have died at the hands of drink drivers were drink has been the absolute cause of the accident but deaths are caused every day due to normal every day things we accept... such as electricity.

saying "my dad was hit by a drink driver" does not mean national policy should reflect a 0.0 BA level...

Rather the argument should be made on scientific, behavioral and effective implementation grounds.

Reg'stoy

I have no problem with the new limits, as they've removed the whole can I have one or two before I'm over the limit nonsense.

The new limits provide the leeway for small amounts of alcohol in the body and no as I read elsewhere on boards, you cannot be over the limit from gargling mouthwash or drinking litres of orange juice ala daily mail scare mongering.

I've drank non-alcoholic erdinger on a night out and apart from missing the effects of drinking full fat pints of Guinness it didn't really bother me, in fact considering the lads who were drinking bought me free bottles all night it was a cheap night. If you need to drink one pint, well I'm sorry but consuming the pint is not your problem; lack of confidence or the ability to ignore peer pressure (sure one drink won't make a difference) is.

As for one poster mentioning adjusting the A/C or radio in the car as somehow been akin to having drank a pint or two well that is complete BS, the act of adjusting the A/C or radio takes a fraction of a second where as the effects of having drank the couple of pints is with you from the moment you turn the ignition to the moment you switch it off. I do agree with tiredness but I too have pulled over to the side of the road because I had the good sense to do so, in much the same way I have the good sense not to have even the one pint before I drive. The person who drives having consumed alcohol made that choice themselves and so can really have no complaints when caught be it that night or the next morning following a heavy session. The perceived injustice at been caught the next morning is another thing that annoys me.

As for the complete horse sh**t of people been better drivers with a few pints on them because they are so much more carefull; well that just beggers belief. The reason they are so much more 'carefull' which is the wrong word, is because they are aware of the detrimental effects of alcohol on their cognitive state. Knowing that my reactions are slower due to drink does not negate the effects.

I've no problem with Mr A.N. Other having a pint at 6 in the evening knowing he will not be driving home till 11 that night, the problem arises when he tries to second guess himself and reckons he can have another at 7 and maybe a third at 8 and still be alright.

I personally feel the 'effects' of a single pint but hey I'm a cheap date. The person who has a swift pint before heading home straight afterwards has to feel the effects and I would call that person a liar if they say they don't.

listermint

Reg'stoy wrote: »

I have no problem with the new limits, as they've removed the whole can I have one or two before I'm over the limit nonsense.

The new limits provide the leeway for small amounts of alcohol in the body and no as I read elsewhere on boards, you cannot be over the limit from gargling mouthwash or drinking litres of orange juice ala daily mail scare mongering.

I've drank non-alcoholic erdinger on a night out and apart from missing the effects of drinking full fat pints of Guinness it didn't really bother me, in fact considering the lads who were drinking bought me free bottles all night it was a cheap night. If you need to drink one pint, well I'm sorry but consuming the pint is not your problem; lack of confidence or the ability to ignore peer pressure (sure one drink won't make a difference) is.

As for one poster mentioning adjusting the A/C or radio in the car as somehow been akin to having drank a pint or two well that is complete BS, the act of adjusting the A/C or radio takes a fraction of a second where as the effects of having drank the couple of pints is with you from the moment you turn the ignition to the moment you switch it off. I do agree with tiredness but I too have pulled over to the side of the road because I had the good sense to do so, in much the same way I have the good sense not to have even the one pint before I drive. The person who drives having consumed alcohol made that choice themselves and so can really have no complaints when caught be it that night or the next morning following a heavy session. The perceived injustice at been caught the next morning is another thing that annoys me.

As for the complete horse sh**t of people been better drivers with a few pints on them because they are so much more carefull; well that just beggers belief. The reason they are so much more 'carefull' which is the wrong word, is because they are aware of the detrimental effects of alcohol on their cognitive state. Knowing that my reactions are slower due to drink does not negate the effects.

I've no problem with Mr A.N. Other having a pint at 6 in the evening knowing he will not be driving home till 11 that night, the problem arises when he tries to second guess himself and reckons he can have another at 7 and maybe a third at 8 and still be alright.

I personally feel the 'effects' of a single pint but hey I'm a cheap date. The person who has a swift pint before heading home straight afterwards has to feel the effects and I would call that person a liar if they say they don't.

You were going well until that bit, Have you ever heard of the Placebo effect? Having Non Alcoholic beer bought for you all night will make your brain think you are drinking proper alcohol.

As bad as being asleep at the wheel. So legally you would be fine, but your instincts will be effected.

Logical Fallacy

listermint wrote: »

You were going well until that bit, Have you ever heard of the Placebo effect? Having Non Alcoholic beer bought for you all night will make your brain think you are drinking proper alcohol.

As bad as being asleep at the wheel. So legally you would be fine, but your instincts will be effected.

Are you serious?

You are making sense to me elsewhere in the thread but that just seems like you are reaching i have to say.

The Placebo effect would only come into play if he was being bought non-alcoholic beer but being told it was normal beer.

It's based off the power of belief of established parameters, not your body having a physiological reaction that over powers the certainty that the drink being imbibed is non-alcoholic.

Tipp Man

It seems very few on here can differentiate between having a pint or 2 and driving and being DRUNK driving

Logical Fallacy

Tipp Man wrote: »

It seems very few on here can differentiate between having a pint or 2 and driving and being DRUNK driving

Well when you are over the legal limit for alcohol and driving you are drunk driving...so it's not exactly a hard concept to catch on to.

listermint

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Are you serious?

You are making sense to me elsewhere in the thread but that just seems like you are reaching i have to say.

The Placebo effect would only come into play if he was being bought non-alcoholic beer but being told it was normal beer.

It's based off the power of belief of established parameters, not your body having a physiological reaction that over powers the certainty that the drink being imbibed is non-alcoholic.

This is not true, The taste, environment, bottle shape, surroundings will all have an effect on your psyche. I have experienced it myself hence i wouldnt be mad on drinking non alcoholic beers.


The suggestion of the beer being alcoholic alone wont give all of the effect.
Tell you what dont listen to me, try it out. Go to a pub drink 5-6 of these beers and see what your head says. Come back and youll have the same findings as i got.

THE PLACEBO EFFECT
The department of Psychology at Indiana University
published a brief study in 1990 that reports that, “Because nonalcoholic beer provides sensory cues that simulate alcoholic
beer, this beverage may be more effective than other placebos
in contributing to a credible manipulation of expectancy to
receive alcohol.” In other words, because the taste and texture of
non-alcoholic beers are so similar to those of alcoholic beers,
they have the potential to psychologically alter drinkers’
expectations of the alcohol (or lack thereof) that they are
imbibing

http://www.wesleyan.edu/weswell/docs/alcohol/IPRC%20Factline%20Nonalcohol%20Beer.pdf



Its not just suggestion, its all the cues related to normal alcohol that non alcohol has also. Im really not reaching here as iver experienced it, without being 'duped' into thinking it was real beer.

Tipp Man

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Well when you are over the legal limit for alcohol and driving you are drunk driving...so it's not exactly a hard concept to catch on to.

Ah not at all

If you were doing 40KPH in a 30KPH zone then you are speeding - but not necessarily going fast. Its all relative

You could be over the drink driving limit but not drunk or even close to. There is a big difference between 2

Logical Fallacy

listermint wrote: »

This is not true, The taste, environment, bottle shape, surroundings will all have an effect on your psyche. I have experienced it myself hence i wouldnt be mad on drinking non alcoholic beers.


The suggestion of the beer being alcoholic alone wont give all of the effect.
Tell you what dont listen to me, try it out. Go to a pub drink 5-6 of these beers and see what your head says. Come back and youll have the same findings as i got.

It's not the Placebo Effect though...it's really that simple. Placebo's are based entirely on false information...what you are talking about is they way you are interpreting and affected by true information.

It means that you personally are very susceptible to hormonal influence based off your surroundings and circumstance...it's a mistake to assume that your own experience is applicable to everyone.

XxMCRxBabyxX

listermint wrote: »

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Are you serious?

You are making sense to me elsewhere in the thread but that just seems like you are reaching i have to say.

The Placebo effect would only come into play if he was being bought non-alcoholic beer but being told it was normal beer.

It's based off the power of belief of established parameters, not your body having a physiological reaction that over powers the certainty that the drink being imbibed is non-alcoholic.

This is not true, The taste, environment, bottle shape, surroundings will all have an effect on your psyche. I have experienced it myself hence i wouldnt be mad on drinking non alcoholic beers.


The suggestion of the beer being alcoholic alone wont give all of the effect.
Tell you what dont listen to me, try it out. Go to a pub drink 5-6 of these beers and see what your head says. Come back and youll have the same findings as i got.

Then tell me why they let alcoholics drink these drink?

They are non alcoholic for a reason. it'll only have an effect if you get those thoughts into your head. If you drink it as a non-alcoholic with none of the expectations of an alcoholic effect, there will be no alcoholic effect

As Logical fallacy said. You have been making sense up until now, but this is a little ridiculous tbh.

Tipp Man

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

It's not the Placebo Effect though...it's really that simple. Placebo's are based entirely on false information...what you are talking about is they way you are interpreting and affected by true information.

It means that you personally are very susceptible to hormonal influence based off your surroundings and circumstance...it's a mistake to assume that your own experience is applicable to everyone.

Currently all NON ALCHOLIC beers on the market contain alchol, usually 0.5%. Drink enough of them and you could be done for drink driving

listermint

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

It's not the Placebo Effect though...it's really that simple. Placebo's are based entirely on false information...what you are talking about is they way you are interpreting and affected by true information.

It means that you personally are very susceptible to hormonal influence based off your surroundings and circumstance...it's a mistake to assume that your own experience is applicable to everyone.

Updated with links, I was addressing the matter that the previous poster felt it was alright to go off on one about alcohol and driving but at the same time drink an heavy amounts (all night ) of an alcohol based beer (with minute levels in it) .

Its simply not, and im fully aware that is not a universal truth but i would place heavy money on this being the case with the majority of people.

listermint

XxMCRxBabyxX wrote: »

Then tell me why they let alcoholics drink these drink?

They are non alcoholic for a reason. it'll only have an effect if you get those thoughts into your head. If you drink it as a non-alcoholic with none of the expectations of an alcoholic effect, there will be no alcoholic effect

As Logical fallacy said. You have been making sense up until now, but this is a little ridiculous tbh.

Im not sure what your point about alcoholics is?

But answer this, Do you seriously believe someone can sit in a pub, with people drinking around them all night and have 6 of these non alcoholic pints and have no ill affects in terms of their reaction and brain function?

I say again, please go an experiment for yourself, Im not pulling this out of the air or left field. I would say the same to Logical. Its an entirely reasoned experiment. So i dont know why its so far fetched?

Logical Fallacy

Tipp Man wrote: »

Ah not at all

If you were doing 40KPH in a 30KPH zone then you are speeding - but not necessarily going fast. Its all relative

You could be over the drink driving limit but not drunk or even close to. There is a big difference between 2

It's not relative, if you are driving your car with a blood alcohol level higher than the legal limit then you are, under the eyes of the law and the technicality of that law...drunk driving.

It's impossible to dispute that.

As for non-alcoholic beers having trace amounts of alcohol in them...so what? That does not to dispute my point that feels of drunkenness while drinking them has nothing to do with the Placebo Effect...it's just backing up my point.

XxMCRxBabyxX

listermint wrote: »

XxMCRxBabyxX wrote: »

Then tell me why they let alcoholics drink these drink?

They are non alcoholic for a reason. it'll only have an effect if you get those thoughts into your head. If you drink it as a non-alcoholic with none of the expectations of an alcoholic effect, there will be no alcoholic effect

As Logical fallacy said. You have been making sense up until now, but this is a little ridiculous tbh.

Im not sure what your point about alcoholics is?

But answer this, Do you seriously believe someone can sit in a pub, with people drinking around them all night and have 6 of these non alcoholic pints and have no ill affects in terms of their reaction and brain function?

I say again, please go an experiment for yourself, Im not pulling this out of the air or left field. I would say the same to Logical. Its an entirely reasoned experiment. So i dont know why its so far fetched?

Why let alcoholics drink non-alcoholic beer if it is going to effect them in the same way that alcohol does?

And yes, I have seen someone sit in a pub drinking non-alcoholic beer with no effects.

And I note your evidence isn't very conclusive with terms like "may" and "the potential"
Not very definite tbh

listermint

XxMCRxBabyxX wrote: »

Why let alcoholics drink non-alcoholic beer if it is going to effect them in the same way that alcohol does?

And yes, I have seen someone sit in a pub drinking non-alcoholic beer with no effects.

And I note your evidence isn't very conclusive with terms like "may" and "the potential"
Not very definite tbh

What has that do do with anything ? They are not trying to ween alcoholics of the sensation of alcohol. Its about saving the Liver from insane levels of alcohol in normal alcohol.

The same as you do with nicotene substitutes....

Anyway as stated, I do not believe anyone who drinks 6 pints of non alcoholic beer in a pub on a night out has no ill effects. I stand to be corrected. But surely you can agree its a reasoned argument and not entirely left field?

Tipp Man

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

It's not relative, if you are driving your car with a blood alcohol level higher than the legal limit then you are, under the eyes of the law and the technicality of that law...drunk driving.

It's impossible to dispute that.

As for non-alcoholic beers having trace amounts of alcohol in them...so what? That does not to dispute my point that feels of drunkenness while drinking them has nothing to do with the Placebo Effect...it's just backing up my point.

Drunk driving and drink driving are 2 seperate offences as far as i am aware

I believe drunk driving is said to have drank to such an extent as to "be incapable of having proper control of the vehicle"

XxMCRxBabyxX

listermint wrote: »

XxMCRxBabyxX wrote: »

Why let alcoholics drink non-alcoholic beer if it is going to effect them in the same way that alcohol does?

And yes, I have seen someone sit in a pub drinking non-alcoholic beer with no effects.

And I note your evidence isn't very conclusive with terms like "may" and "the potential"
Not very definite tbh

What has that do do with anything ? They are not trying to ween alcoholics of the sensation of alcohol. Its about saving the Liver from insane levels of alcohol in normal alcohol.

The same as you do with nicotene substitutes....

Anyway as stated, I do not believe anyone who drinks 6 pints of non alcoholic beer in a pub on a night out has no ill effects. I stand to be corrected. But surely you can agree its a reasoned argument and not entirely left field?

You clearly don't know any alcoholics if you think that's why they stop them drinking. The effect on the liver is only one minor point.

It's not entirely left field but I do think that you are exaggerating the point

listermint

XxMCRxBabyxX wrote: »

You clearly don't know any alcoholics if you think that's why they stop them drinking. The effect on the liver is only one minor point.

It's not entirely left field but I do think that you are exaggerating the point

I havent exaggerated the point. Ive made some fairly reasoned arguments about the effects and reasons behind the effects of this type of beer.


And yes i do know alcoholics. I went to secondary school with people who are and that goes to show what age they started at.

Anyway saving the Liver is a huge point of rehabilitating someone. so to say its a minor point is just not true. (but thats off topic)

Tipp Man

a curfew on drivers under the age of 25 (for example) would have a far greater impact on road fatalities than this reduction on the drink driving limits

listermint

Better Planning for accident blackspots including changes in road design.

and

a comprehensive driver training system starting in secondary level education is the best way forward.


But look neither of these generate revenue such as penalty pointing and gathering fines.

Read between the lines people.

Logical Fallacy

listermint wrote: »

Better Planning for accident blackspots including changes in road design.

and

a comprehensive driver training system starting in secondary level education is the best way forward.


But look neither of these generate revenue such as penalty pointing and gathering fines.

Read between the lines people.

See, that's the kind of stuff i can get behind man.

Where i grew up there was a big sign on the road saying Accident Blackspot!!! Didn't stop any of the multiple fatal accidents that occurred there when i was a kid.