ULSU services Ltd

Sid_Justice

A lot of controversy over this at the minute. Can someone give me the back ground on this company and bring me up to speed.

Gael23

The issue is that €60,000 of c&s money was transferred to ulsu services ltd. There is alot more than that to it but thats really it. Heres a link to a story published yesterday
http://www.thomondstudenttimes.com/index.php/news/101-clubs-and-societies-bails-out-campus-shops

freyners

Derek's response here on his blog

I want to clear up some issues concerning the matter of the finances of the University of Limerick Students’ Union Services Ltd (ULSU Services) which have arisen over the past few days
I would rather have had full facts and audit complete before having made this statement, but my hand has been forced on the matter and I do not want misinformation and panic to distract from the real issues facing students.
ULSU Services is a wholly owned subsidiary of ULSU. The company is ultimately owned by the transient student body of the University of Limerick.
Over the past number of years ULSU Services has been trading poorly. In April of this year the company was restructured and positions were made redundant. An overall Commercial Manager was appointed. Summer is a traditionally slow trading season for ULSU Services and 2 of the 4 operations are closed for the summer months to reflect the trading realities. This summer, business on the campus was slow due to a reconfiguration of foreign language course offerings. This has been felt by all campus companies and ULSU Services is no different.
During the period where ULSU sought a new accountant following the departure of the Secretaty General the sabbatical officers were left to manage cashflow. This is not a function that transient officers are or should ordinarily be asked to undertake. Once a suitable candidate was found to fill the role of Group Accountant and he had begun work, he sought a meeting with me and the General Manager to advise a spending freeze. We could not agree to a blanket spending freeze, but did agree that only previously authorised and essential expenditures would be spent.
In July, in the absence of the physical ability to have a meeting of the Executive I contacted all members of the Executive with the following email.
Dear Exec,

Please note that anything contained in this email is not for discussion or information outside of those addressed until such time as I have spoken with all stakeholders and informed you otherwise.
I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but there is a financial situation that has arisen through extraordinary expenditures throughout this year (5 figure recruitment costs being just one) as well as a poor trading year in the services company.
Our new Group Accountant Barry started on Monday and requested to meet with me and the new General Manager Philip this afternoon. There is currently €106,000 in Union Group bank accounts which will not meet requirements (mainly of the services company) until capitation is received and the trading season begins again.
As it stands the services company is eating into the Union's cash. This has been halted to an extent with the arrival of a Commercial Manager who has visibly transformed the operation and is keeping a close eye on all costs, however the costs of the commercial operations for the summer months have and continue to exceed the income.
The 2 substantive items I would like you to consider and revert to me on (by 1pm on Tuesday) are:
· To cover capital items (minibus and radio station fit-out) I am requesting that I be authorised to apply for medium term loans of 3-5 years (should leasing not be available) not exceeding €70,000.
· To cover on-going expenditure, such as salaries I am requesting that I be authorised to access the Union reserve and transfer this to the current account and to increase the overdraft available to us from €50,000 to €100,000.
Please be re-assured that all expenditure is under review as a result of this afternoon's meeting, but that we will endeavour to continue to operate more efficiently within the resources available.
These measures are temporary until capitation is paid by the University during the first week of October. I will be requesting a revised accounting procedure to ensure that a future Exec isn't receiving a similar email in a number of years.
Please accept my sincere apologies that this situation has arisen. In a break from past practices this information will be made available publicly as soon as all stakeholders have been consulted with. I believe in transparency above all and intend to outline the situation to all members of the Union at the earliest opportunity, but would remind you again not discuss this outside of the recipients of this email until that time.
I would ask you all to include your understanding of ULSU Services in the Handover Document for your position.
Gach dea-ghuí
Derek

The Sabbatical Team also met and agreed the measures following clarifications and discussion of concern.
All staff members were made aware of the financial situation in an email on the 3rd of August, which they became free to discuss with anyone they so wished on the 4th of August. It outlined that this is not a long term issue for ULSU, but for ULSU Services which is being addressed by the new management at the company. This email also outlined that management accounts, once prepared and approved would be published and made freely available. This remains the intention.
The matter which has led to the necessity of a statement concerning whether €60,000 in underspent administrative charges through Clubs and Societies was utilised is a moot point. Clubs and Societies have this available to them. All money held in bank accounts of the Students’ Union belongs to students and as the head of the Union I, along with the Executive, must ensure it is utilised for the ultimate benefit of students.
To ensure staff continued to be paid and that on-going expenses could be met I recommended the actions above. In the end, due to prudent financial management of the reserve it was not necessary to extend the overdraft.
At 30 September 2010, the date of the last audited accounts ULSU held reserves for clubs and societies nominal codes (cost centres/expenditure lines) of €158,740. This information was and continues to be available to anyone who wishes to call to the Union to view accounts. That figure was an increase of €21,742 on the previous year and includes vehicle and safety net reserves. It forms part of the Union reserve. I do regret that some members of the Executive felt that this was an oversight in forming a decision, for me the best interest of the student body dictated that as a Union we must be unified for the benefit of students.
The simplest decision in requesting to access the reserve was that reserves are held for “a rainy day” and at the time of recommendation there were storm clouds gathering. The money belongs to the students and the recommendation was made on my belief that it was in the best interest of students.
The issue that most concerns me is whether ownership of ULSU Services continues to be in the best interest of the student experience. There is no doubting that as a standalone commercial entity with the sole aim of making profit that some of the operations of ULSU Services would have ceased, however at the moment it is the view of the Board (and the Executive which was briefed on the financial situation at ULSU services following the 2010 Audit and controls the Board) to continue providing the service.
I am wholly in support of Clubs and Societies in this matter and recovering any monies owed to ULSU by ULSU Services over a sustainable period for both entities is a priority of mine. Attempts to recover loans to ULSU Services over the last number of years in a condensed period have led to an unsustainable circle whereby the sustainability of the company has been threatened. Loans will have to be recovered over a longer period and it is vitally important that students utilise the shops at Cappavilla, Dromroe and the Courtyard as well as Uni-Cycle to ensure the natural balance whereby ULSU Service is a net contributor, not only on paper, but in cashflow to ULSU is returned to.
Any claims to the effect that ULSU is engaged in financial mismanagement are unfounded; and I reiterate that I am fully committed to recovering the loans from ULSU Services.
Once audited accounts at the ULSU Services are complete and have been approved by the Board I will make all members aware of the situation as I had committed at the end of July. However without full knowledge I do not intend to engage in guesswork.
If there are any further queries relating to the above I will make myself available to discuss them with anyone who wishes to arrange to meet with me over the coming days.

I think derek gives a fair account of what happening considering its still an on-going situation and im sure anything missing will be brought to light at the meeting in week 5.

Sid_Justice

can some one explain to me what

"number of Students Union run businesses are in debt to a total of €500,000"

this means?

what are the businesses
when was the debt accumulated
how was the debt accumulated

yesno1234

Sid_Justice wrote: »

can some one explain to me what

"number of Students Union run businesses are in debt to a total of €500,000"

this means?

what are the businesses
when was the debt accumulated
how was the debt accumulated

The stable, scholars, java's, red raison and spar on campus are all su run, I presume the has been accumulating over the past number of years since the recession hit just like businesses throughout the country because consumer spending has fallen.

Cossax

yesno1234 wrote: »

The stable, scholars, java's, red raison and spar on campus are all su run, I presume the has been accumulating over the past number of years since the recession hit just like businesses throughout the country because consumer spending has fallen.

Campbell's Catering ran/runs a number of those, I'm fairly sure.

Spar is most likely under the SU but have heard that earns a profit.

ynwa_17

yesno1234 wrote: »

The stable, scholars, java's, red raison and spar on campus are all su run, I presume the has been accumulating over the past number of years since the recession hit just like businesses throughout the country because consumer spending has fallen.

Completely ill-informed. The Stables is not SU run. Scholars/Java's is not SU run. Red Raison is not SU run. If you're going to comment please ensure your facts are right.

The three Spars on campus are owned by the SU, as is Unicycle.

highlydebased

yesno1234 wrote: »

The stable, scholars, java's, red raison and spar on campus are all su run, I presume the has been accumulating over the past number of years since the recession hit just like businesses throughout the country because consumer spending has fallen.

Entirely incorrect- except for spar. Though the SU technically does not run the shops as it's parent company ULSU services ltd does...

Stables and Javas are privately operated, all the others are operated by Campbell Catering except for the place in the music building is run by cafe noir

Gael23

So is it just the 3 shops then? I think the question asked by Sid Justice is an interesting one and I think that those questions need to be answered despite not being asked last Tuesday night.

mid

ryanf1 wrote: »

So is it just the 3 shops then? I think the question asked by Sid Justice is an interesting one and I think that those questions need to be answered despite not being asked last Tuesday night.

I presume its the 4 businesses (3 Shops and Uni-cycle) mentioned in Derek's blog and also quoted in freyners post above:

... it is vitally important that students utilise the shops at Cappavilla, Dromroe and the Courtyard as well as Uni-Cycle to ensure ...

mid

AFAIK the SU opened the 3rd shop in Cappavilla in November 2009:

- were the courtyard and dromroe shops profitable up until this point, if so, did the losses only occur during the past 2 years?

- if the courtyard and dromroe shops weren't profitable to this point [nov 2009], it doesn't make sense to me why they'd open another shop in the same area?

[I'm assuming the shops are there to make a profit and not just to provide a service to students]

Cpt_Blackbeard

Sure hopefully Derick will be able to try and explain himself at the next meeting. If he can talk his way out of effectively stealing 60k from the clubs and socs, I'll be impressed.

In all likelihood though, he'll just wrap it up in jargon and try and sweep it under the carpet.

ninty9er

A meeting has been called for this coming Tuesday. There will be no financials available for that meeting, which is why I questioned what those wanting the meeting are expecting it to achieve.

There are a number of inaccuracies here, but I will not be commenting on individual issues.

Sid_Justice

ninty9er wrote: »

A meeting has been called for this coming Tuesday. There will be no financials available for that meeting, which is why I questioned what those wanting the meeting are expecting it to achieve.

There are a number of inaccuracies here, but I will not be commenting on individual issues.

are you in the SU? not accusing just wondering i don't know any names of this forum

Gael23

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Sure hopefully Derick will be able to try and explain himself at the next meeting. If he can talk his way out of effectively stealing 60k from the clubs and socs, I'll be impressed.

In all likelihood though, he'll just wrap it up in jargon and try and sweep it under the carpet.

Dont go swinging accusations like that. Someone fcuked up alright but we dont know who. And the money is not actually gone, its in a diffrent account

Sid_Justice wrote: »

are you in the SU? not accusing just wondering i don't know any names of this forum

Ninty9er is Derek Daly, the SU President

Delta Kilo

ryanf1 wrote:

And the money is not actually gone, its in a diffrent account

Ah yes, im sure its just resting there nice and comfortable...

-My Arse.

That money has either been used to directly pay off some debts or used to guarantee a loan for either paying off debts or funding another money wasting junket *Cough ULFM cough, cough*. They wouldnt have moved it from one account to the other just for the laugh or the hell of it, it has been used. If we asked derek for the money tomorrow morning, I guarantee it wouldnt be there.

We might get it back eventually, but the real issue here is the methods and rationale used to take the money. In his blog, the email he sent to exec, he didnt mention that the money he wanted authorised was C&S money... because he knew well it wouldnt be approved. Somrthing very ambiguous like "union reserves" was given to exec.

I can see why clubs and socs members are upset, they go through a lot of effort submitting budgets accounting for every cent spent and being grilled as to why a receipt is inaccurate by €0.02, yet on the other hand ULSU comes along and steals borrows €60,000 without as much as a "by your leave". I dont like it, at all and they need to get the message from C&S that they cant just do that. That is hopefully what will come of Tuesdays meeting.

PunkFreud

ryanf1 wrote: »

Dont go swinging accusations like that. Someone fcuked up alright but we dont know who. And the money is not actually gone, its in a diffrent account

That money is just resting in the account!

Cpt_Blackbeard

ryanf1 wrote: »

Dont go swinging accusations like that. Someone fcuked up alright but we dont know who. And the money is not actually gone, its in a diffrent account

Why shouldn't I? Derick is head of the SU so it falls on his head. If there was an easy explanation for what happened, Derick would have had it cleared up by now. But, everything has been kept hush hush because the correct procedures were not followed.

If Derick made his intentions clear from the offset, I doubt that many people would have much problem putting off the purchase of a new C&S bus and setting up of a legal account (or whatever it was) for a few years but, there is now uproar due to the sneaky manner in which the money was stolen borrowed.

canned_ulkc

There is a massive issue going on here - ULSU Services Ltd is in debt in a major way. How this threatens what the SU do day to day, I cannot comment but I do hope that what has been there over the years continues to provide particularly for those most in need.

The issue of ULSU Service Ltd debt is not a C&S one. ULSU have stamped on the feet of C&S in a way that all but insults the value of C&S which is something that unfortunately has no value for certain students and is invaluable to others.

This has prompted the current situation. The discussion is not whether the SU has dipped into monies earmarked for C&S - that is undeniable - the issue is the manner in which that happened.

These two issues are completely seperate. It is NOT the responsibility of C&S to make sacrafices to ULSU. In this instance, the monies have been taken. The idea that they were requested is absolute tripe.

Did the ULSU come along and say:
"You know that money that you C&S guys were talking about ringfencing in your last meeting of 2010/2011 - do you mind if we go spending that and make sure it's there for you at the start of 2011/2012?"

Nope.....

Not a very hard question to construct.... In fact I'd say that saying it in any other way took thought.

At this point while there are some questions I think should be answered I also think that it's time to be mature enough to accept that this has happened - and now it's time for some form of system to ensure it doesn't happen again.

Either:
C&S gets a separate bank account to which their percantage of capitation is paid and appropriate signatories to the account exist or
the single bank account which currently exists gets a compulsory signatory from C&S to authorise everything to say they understand what is being signed for.

Of course that ignores the apologies (both collective and individual) which should certainly be made in parallel.

Ginge Young

What was said above. I'm reserving any further comment for now, but tony summed up the majority of my sentiments quite well.

Sid_Justice

Ginge Young wrote: »

What was said above. I'm reserving any further comment for now, but tony summed up the majority of my sentiments quite well.

why so? what vested interest do you have? if you have nothing to say, say nothing.

Polar Ice

Sid_Justice wrote: »

why so? what vested interest do you have? if you have nothing to say, say nothing.

Aren't online discussion forums just great?

People don't know who everyone is, some people intentionally conceal their identity, people can get fixated on small elements of a discussion.

@Sid_Justice. the reason why some people wish to comment, but can't is because of the position they are in. "Ginge Young" is the previous Clubs Officer. He would have sat on C&S exec, as well as ULSU exec.

Seeing as you want a background story (you are the OP), you should probably ask to see the minutes for the previous council meeting. They should be prepared and circulated in advance of the next one.

boards.ie doesn't lend itself to being a place to have a structured discussion on topics where all the information isn't clear yet. People can whimsically type into their keyboard.

An Extraordinary Clubs and Societies Council meeting has been called for Tuesday Week 4. There is only one agenda item and an hour to discuss it. At this point in time people who have previously been hesitant towards saying stuff will have their opportunity to speak. Until then, this is simply a rumour mill where people can claim the stables, scholars and red raisins are owned by ULSU...

highlydebased

Delta Kilo wrote: »

Ah yes, im sure its just resting there nice and comfortable...

-My Arse.

That money has either been used to directly pay off some debts or used to guarantee a loan for either paying off debts or funding another money wasting junket *Cough ULFM cough, cough*.

ULFM was funded by the communications budget, not this money.

yuppy700

highlydebased wrote: »

ULFM was funded by the communications budget, not this money.

Putting money into ULFM ? really ? I can understand equipment costs and licences but the website they are streaming it on must be free or at least have minimal costs. They are surely hosting it on the computer societies servers. Financially it wouldn't make sense anywhere else especially in a time where the SU is in enough debt to steal borrow clubs and socs money. There isnt much on their page anyway except the streaming and that cheesy banner running across it.

for anyone who wants to see : www.ulfm.ulsu.ie

reunion

yuppy700 wrote: »

Putting money into ULFM ? really ? I can understand equipment costs and licences but the website they are streaming it on must be free or at least have minimal costs. They are surely hosting it on the computer societies servers. Financially it wouldn't make sense anywhere else especially in a time where the SU is in enough debt to steal borrow clubs and socs money. There isnt much on their page anyway except the streaming and that cheesy banner running across it.

for anyone who wants to see : www.ulfm.ulsu.ie

Do they have a licence to stream music?
Is there a point for An Focal anymore with ULFM able to bring news to students straight away? Maybe switch an focal to an online paper like thomond student times and print less papers? An email subscription to recieve daily news updates about campus stuff to your email inbox?

What is the ULSU services Ltd comprised of? I would get rid of the bike shop if it was not making money or else move it to one of the other shops in drumroe/cappa. Maybe move the laptop repair centre and wolves gear into the same place?

Why even have drumroe/cappa shops? If they are loss making maybe their strategy should be changed.

All money held in bank accounts of the Students’ Union belongs to students and as the head of the Union I, along with the Executive, must ensure it is utilised for the ultimate benefit of students.

Can I have 60k? I'm a student, I need to benefit.

This sounds like a big **** you to clubs and societies. This money is for the benefit of students through clubs and societies. This point sounds like

canned_ulkc

With the Council meeting called for next Tuesday the use of funds earmarked for C&S can be discussed.

The state of ULSU Services Ltd finances is an issue which should be discussed with a broader cohort. It seems the ULSU AGM would be the place for that but that's done already.

I have to say though, I think that ULSU AGMs would be better served by finding a more inclusive way to make quorum than to offer free tickets (and I've heard it rumoured: pints)

I'm not 100% on the ins and outs of it but not making quorum does not immediately lead to the collapse of any organisation - in fact, sometimes it's the kick some organisations need.

Sid_Justice

Polar Ice wrote: »

Seeing as you want a background story (you are the OP), you should probably ask to see the minutes for the previous council meeting. They should be prepared and circulated in advance of the next one.

How do you get the minutes? Are they published online after every meeting? I'd love to have a look.

Can someone remind me where the 60000 came from? Is it from the ~5 euro joining fee we pay to join clubs and socs? Is it derived from the registration fees we pay at start of college? Is it just roll-over from funding the C&S have received over the years from college?

Ginge Young

Hey Sid,

The 60k came from this:

Each year the SU is given a level of capitation from the University via our registration fees. There is an agreement between the students union and the university that it be split 2/3 to clubs and socs and 1/3 to the union.

The 60k was a reserve built up from our 2/3 over the last number of years as designated by clubs and societies council. A certain amount is set aside each year and if there is roll-over in funds that can also contribute to it.

As for the minutes, I am not sure if they have been typed up yet, but I would feel confident that they will most likely be available tomorrow. I'll go and have a chat with Liz myself as I know there are a number of people requesting them.

yuppy700

canned_ulkc wrote: »

The state of ULSU Services Ltd finances is an issue which should be discussed with a broader cohort. It seems the ULSU AGM would be the place for that but that's done already.

it only takes 200 signatures to call an EGM

MrsStuffings

interesting how they quickly rushed the agm through before all this info came out also.

there'd have been no need to give free tickets if students knew what really was going on.

typical students union, all cloak and daggers.
im a postgrad student and i can assure you this level of secrecy and deceit did not go on at my previous college ucc. do these sabbats here just have some sort of free reign that they can dip their mits into accounts whenever they want to grease their palms?
who do these people have to answer to?
all very suspect tbh.

Sid_Justice

Ginge Young wrote: »

Hey Sid,

The 60k came from this:

Each year the SU is given a level of capitation from the University via our registration fees. There is an agreement between the students union and the university that it be split 2/3 to clubs and socs and 1/3 to the union.

The 60k was a reserve built up from our 2/3 over the last number of years as designated by clubs and societies council. A certain amount is set aside each year and if there is roll-over in funds that can also contribute to it.

As for the minutes, I am not sure if they have been typed up yet, but I would feel confident that they will most likely be available tomorrow. I'll go and have a chat with Liz myself as I know there are a number of people requesting them.

thanks keith