Worth Getting a Debt Collector for small amounts such as 700 Euro

ronan45

Hi all. In the place I work we have a fair few people that have no intention of paying their debts. In total it adds up to about 20,000 Euro. Most are silly amounts such as 100 and 200 Euro. The company have basically just put them down as bad debts. There are a few for that vary between 600 - 900 Euro. I mentioned to the head man that he should hire a debt collection firm.
He reckons number 1 that collection firms wont be interested in small amounts ie 700 euro and 2 that its unlikely they will get anything back as they own the money about 3 or 4 years now.
I just thought in my own head, would it not be worth a shot instead of just wiping it off the system as a bad debt no? Anyone any experience with trying debt collection firms that might advise?

dbran

Hi Ronan

I have PM'd you a debt collection agency who I have found to be most excellent for debts such as these and use them all the time.

Cant reccomend them enough.

Kind Regards

dbran

thomas98798

Any chance you could pm that debt collectors details also. Have a friend who could do with a good one.

EIREHotspur

There should be a system where people in Business can publish clients who owe money.

Therefore other Businesses down the line can avoid them like the plague.

How can these people hold their head up in public.....their like sickens me.

The very term "Debt Collection Agency" throws up a stereotype in my head though.

Good luck getting back what is rightfully yours!

HellFireClub

I think a lot of people are getting wise to bad debt these days and not giving credit. We dispatch nothing now unless we have a credit/laser card authorisation, we won't even take cash for nationwide transactions that have to be shipped, (in case we get hit for a shipping charge if the customer has a change of mind and decides not to buy and pay COD after telling us to ship goods down for COD). We will take cash at the counter for something that we have in stock but as for giving credit, I think that's a bit of a mugs game in these times.

Compton

I'd love that PM aswell.. is this the sort that goes up to the persons door and knocks them out with a shovel?

thomas98798

Some argue that business need to provide credit but its a dangerous game to play these days. I always think to myself if the customer can't afford to pay for it today, what difference is 30 days going to make to them.

I have heard stories of people advertising the person X owes them money. They advertise it using a huge board, detailing that money has not been paid for services provided. How legal is this???

dbran

shblob wrote: »

I'd love that PM aswell.. is this the sort that goes up to the persons door and knocks them out with a shovel?

No. That would be unprofessional and would reflect badly on you and your business. I would steer clear of anyone who employed those tactics.

Kind Regards


dbran

HellFireClub

thomas98798 wrote: »

Some argue that business need to provide credit but its a dangerous game to play these days. I always think to myself if the customer can't afford to pay for it today, what difference is 30 days going to make to them.

I have heard stories of people advertising the person X owes them money. They advertise it using a huge board, detailing that money has not been paid for services provided. How legal is this???

One lad I know, if you go into his outlet, at his trade counter he has a notice board and up on the board, in big A4 landscape (obviously enlarged), he has put cheques that have bounced, that lads would have given him to obtain goods at his counter and he also has cut out and laminated an extract from a newspaper covering a fairly recent court case where some guy was successfully prosecuted for presenting a cheque as payment for goods/services, when he knew that the money was not in the bank account to honour the cheque.

Just to clarify, the bounced cheques above posted on the notice board, were obviously related to transactions where payment could not subsequently be obtained, as in I mean that it wasn't a thing where if you bounced a cheque but subsequently sorted out the invoice, you'd be named and shamed.

Then the other side of the coin is that I've one mate I know who has for the first time in 15 years in business, has just run into serious cash flow issues, I know he can't sleep at night with the worry he has to deal with, he has gone down the road of personally guaranteeing a substantial overdraft to cover hits he took when some of his own customers went bust. This particular mate has spent the last 20 years building up a business but right now is having serious trouble staying on top of things. If he ultimately fails, there is no social welfare safety net there for him, you'd have to ask, what is he to do, as a man with a wife and a family??? I think every entrepreneur in a similar situation would consider themselves "pot committed" and try to stay at the races 'til the very end and rightly so.

I'm just making the point that issues with paying debts as they fall due, are not always as open/shut or black/White as some folks would have us believe, and no moreso than at the present time.

maxer68

Just on the final point - there is social assistance for self employed people but unlike paye workers it is means tested from day 1

george tobin

they have no intention of paying the dept no matter who you employ to collect...welcome to the real world....

HellFireClub

george tobin wrote: »

they have no intention of paying the dept no matter who you employ to collect...welcome to the real world....

In the past I think that would have been true most of the time but not anymore, I genuinely don't know how folks who have to give credit these days, are surviving. I'm lucky that I'm in a business where it's all card payments or cash, lads I know who have to work on a 30 day payment cycle just can't get paid on time, and it's not down to bad collection procedures or sloppiness at that end of things.

ssbob

ronan45 wrote: »

Hi all. In the place I work we have a fair few people that have no intention of paying their debts. In total it adds up to about 20,000 Euro. Most are silly amounts such as 100 and 200 Euro. The company have basically just put them down as bad debts. There are a few for that vary between 600 - 900 Euro. I mentioned to the head man that he should hire a debt collection firm.
He reckons number 1 that collection firms wont be interested in small amounts ie 700 euro and 2 that its unlikely they will get anything back as they own the money about 3 or 4 years now.
I just thought in my own head, would it not be worth a shot instead of just wiping it off the system as a bad debt no? Anyone any experience with trying debt collection firms that might advise?

Debt collectors will of course be interested in the smaller amounts but you are likely to get very little out of this, what I did before in a similar situation was to ring each individual debtor explaining to them that they had an outstanding bill which needed to be paid, then nothing happens with 95% of them so ring them again and tell them you will collect the cheque at their office at 11am Friday, again nothing happens with 95% but all the time you are chipping away at the list. We reviewed the list weekly for a period of about 6 months, calling everyone on it and basically annoying the sh1t out of them to pay, most did in the end but not all so we issued them with a warning letter saying that we would pursue them through the small claims court which brought in some more revenue. You should look up the small claims court as it is specifically for this amount of monies as claims cannot exceed €2,000.

You should take the initiative here and even if you only manage to bring in 10% then it is 10% more than the company thought they were going to have.

You may say that the administrative cost would outweigh this but at the end of the day people who do not pay their debts should not be entitled to get away with that.

HellFireClub

ssbob wrote: »

Debt collectors will of course be interested in the smaller amounts but you are likely to get very little out of this, what I did before in a similar situation was to ring each individual debtor explaining to them that they had an outstanding bill which needed to be paid, then nothing happens with 95% of them so ring them again and tell them you will collect the cheque at their office at 11am Friday, again nothing happens with 95% but all the time you are chipping away at the list. We reviewed the list weekly for a period of about 6 months, calling everyone on it and basically annoying the sh1t out of them to pay, most did in the end but not all so we issued them with a warning letter saying that we would pursue them through the small claims court which brought in some more revenue. You should look up the small claims court as it is specifically for this amount of monies as claims cannot exceed €2,000.

You should take the initiative here and even if you only manage to bring in 10% then it is 10% more than the company thought they were going to have.

You may say that the administrative cost would outweigh this but at the end of the day people who do not pay their debts should not be entitled to get away with that.

I thought the Small Claims Court was specifically for settling disputes between private buyers and business sellers? It doesn't take on business to business disputes or if they do, it's a very recent thing???

ssbob

HellFireClub wrote: »

I thought the Small Claims Court was specifically for settling disputes between private buyers and business sellers? It doesn't take on business to business disputes or if they do, it's a very recent thing???

HFC,

Since 11th January 2010 businesses can now take other businesses to the small claims court as long as the claim does not exceed €2,000. Detail here:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/courts_system/small_claims_court.html

HellFireClub

ssbob wrote: »

HFC,

Since 11th January 2010 businesses can now take other businesses to the small claims court as long as the claim does not exceed €2,000. Detail here:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/courts_system/small_claims_court.html

Businesses can make claims against other businesses in relation to contracts for goods or services purchased. It does not apply to claims in relation to:

• Agreements to which the Consumer Credit Act 1995 applies
• Breaches of leasing agreements
• Debt or liquidated damages

paul71

thomas98798 wrote: »

Some argue that business need to provide credit but its a dangerous game to play these days. I always think to myself if the customer can't afford to pay for it today, what difference is 30 days going to make to them.

I have heard stories of people advertising the person X owes them money. They advertise it using a huge board, detailing that money has not been paid for services provided. How legal is this???

Perfectly legal, you cannot incurr a cival lawsuit liability for telling the truth if you can prove it is the truth. There was a thread here about a guy who did this a few.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=2056387660

just pete

Can anything be done as reguards to getting monies owed for wages from a boss going back 3 yrs or is that a totally different situation to the above posts?
I'm owed 1180 euro and it certainly would come in handy now

paul71

just pete wrote: »

Can anything be done as reguards to getting monies owed for wages from a boss going back 3 yrs or is that a totally different situation to the above posts?
I'm owed 1180 euro and it certainly would come in handy now

Is the person you worked for a limited company or sole trader? If a Limited company is it in Liquidation or still trading?

If he is/was a sole trader or a Limited company then you have recourse to the Labour court, if it is a Liquidated company then contact the Liquidator.

BobMc

I'm chasing a lady for about €250, solicitor hasnt been much help, will a debt collector be of any use, more on principal than the amount of money, just want to make my point at this stage

BobMc

and I'd like my late payment interest too, any advice

HellFireClub

BobMc wrote: »

and I'd like my late payment interest too, any advice

Forget about it is my advice.

BobMc

I'd love to, sometimes its the principal though

mocon04

Im owed 4,000 euro by this man and he owes a few people money too, could you tell me a good debt collector the roughest if possible. im waiting a while for this money over a year.

ronan45

mocon04 wrote: »

Im owed 4,000 euro by this man and he owes a few people money too, could you tell me a good debt collector the roughest if possible. im waiting a while for this money over a year.

http://www.sundayworld.com/columnists/sw-irish-crime.php?aid=5121

professore

ssbob wrote: »

HFC,

Since 11th January 2010 businesses can now take other businesses to the small claims court as long as the claim does not exceed €2,000. Detail here:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/courts_system/small_claims_court.html

This is excellent news. Many thanks!

professore

BobMc wrote: »

I'm chasing a lady for about €250, solicitor hasnt been much help, will a debt collector be of any use, more on principal than the amount of money, just want to make my point at this stage

There are debt collection agencies who will chase her, expect to pay €100 + for the service though. I'm with you though, it's the principle, I don't mess people around and don't tolerate other people messing me around.

If you can't pay for a product or service, then don't buy it in the first place.

ronan45

professore wrote: »

There are debt collection agencies who will chase her, expect to pay €100 + for the service though. I'm with you though, it's the principle, I don't mess people around and don't tolerate other people messing me around.

If you can't pay for a product or service, then don't buy it in the first place.

Is there such a thing as a debt collector for private loans ie not business more personal?

RATM

Debt collection really is the ire of small business in Ireland.

We really need a small claims court for B2B debt collection- a forum where the decision would be made swiftly and enforced just as quick. I'm aware of a number of businesses who delibretely don't pays debts for as long as possible to give themselves better cash flow, with not a thought to the cash flow of their suppliers. It is really sharp practice and as a result I don't sell services to small business without an upfront payment, I'll only give credit to multinationals as they have a 100% track record of paying before the invoice falls due.

OP not sure if you have considered a District Court summons, solicitor should charge about €2-300 to put one together. It is a pretty frightening document to receive and it requires the defendant to either pay up in 10 days or to enter in a plea to defend the action. If you are 100% in the right (i.e. can prove the debt exists by way of a signed contract, can prove the work was actually done, can prove it was done satisfactorily, etc) then a summons might be the way to go. If you are in the right it will frighten the bejaysis out of whoever owes you and better again is that you can tack on the legal costs too.

I've had to take this route before for amounts in the region of €3-5k and experience has shown me that some businesses don't take you seriously whatsoever until you go legal on them. Of course you'll never again have them as a client but then again you wouldn't want them either.

If you win your case there is also nothing stopping you getting it published in Stubbs Gazette to warn other businesses. The threat of that happening can also help to speed things up somewhat too.

Lofty123

BobMc wrote: »

I'm chasing a lady for about €250, solicitor hasnt been much help, will a debt collector be of any use, more on principal than the amount of money, just want to make my point at this stage

Hi Bob,
Did you ever resolve this, and if so, how? I have a very similar problem. It's not a lot of money, but I don't order goods and not pay for them and don't expect my customers to either.

Small businesses/sole traders really need a forum like the Small Claims Court, but I doubt we will ever get one.

grass

dbran wrote: »

Hi Ronan

I have PM'd you a debt collection agency who I have found to be most excellent for debts such as these and use them all the time.

Cant reccomend them enough.

Kind Regards

dbran

Hi
is there any chance you could PM this agency to me