Why are Irish Agricultural exports doing so well ?

HellsAngel

I hear the above from reports from the National Ploughing championships. So, why is it doing so well at the moment ? Surely agriculture is a steady market and shouldn't flucuate as people always need to eat ? Appearently our agriculutral exports are helping to keep us afloat.


Is this article below accurate or is it Sir O'Reilly's comic BSing yet again - " Bumper returns make farming star of economy .....The secret's out agriculture is flying......with demand as burgeoning Chinese middle classes developed a rapidly insatiable appetite for richer, westernised diets, complete with Big Macs and super-sized Cokes. "
http://www.independent.ie/farming/ploughing-championships/bumper-returns-make-farming-star-of-economy-2882446.html

Scofflaw

While people always need to eat, poorer countries don't eat expensive imported meat if they eat meat at all - we export beef, the Chinese are beginning to eat beef, there's a lot of Chinese.

Agriculture is the best performer according to the CSO - the value of the sector grew from €768m and €1038m in Q1 and Q2 last year to €798m and €1109m Q1 and Q2 this year. For comparison, those figures in 2006 were €858m and €1102m respectively.

cordially,
Scofflaw

mikemac

Our reputation for quality and ability to win contracts

Dawn Farm Foods in Kildare supplies every Subway in Europe as an example

Dob74

Commodity prices are up, our number one commodity is agriculture.
Farmers need a break and they have got one.
Our high strandards have helped.

HellsAngel

Very interesting. If you had said the above, say 5 years ago you'd have been laughed out of it, when good agricultural land was been sold for crazy prices to be turned into ghost estates and golf courses

So the Indo article is accurate, but I suppose even it has to report the truth now and again. " Even NAMA's boss Brendan McDonagh admitted that he was relying on a buoyant farm sector to hoover up thousands of acres of land which represents 40pc of the state agency's loanbook.Several golf courses around the country are also expected to be re-absorbed into the food chain over the coming months as negotiations are finalised with local farmers keen to put the redundant fairways back into productive use. "

AlekSmart

HellsAngel wrote: »

Very interesting. If you had said the above, say 5 years ago you'd have been laughed out of it, when good agricultural land was been sold for crazy prices to be turned into ghost estates and golf courses

" Even NAMA's boss Brendan McDonagh admitted that he was relying on a buoyant farm sector to hoover up thousands of acres of land which represents 40pc of the state agency's loanbook.Several golf courses around the country are also expected to be re-absorbed into the food chain over the coming months as negotiations are finalised with local farmers keen to put the redundant fairways back into productive use. "

Quite true indeed.

Perhaps we need to reflect on DeValera's vision of a largely agrarian Ireland,and admit,if necessary,that he had a better undertstanding of the place than many who've followed...not an easy admission for many (including Me) to make ?

Scofflaw

AlekSmart wrote: »

Quite true indeed.

Perhaps we need to reflect on DeValera's vision of a largely agrarian Ireland,and admit,if necessary,that he had a better undertstanding of the place than many who've followed...not an easy admission for many (including Me) to make ?

Dev's largely agrarian Ireland produced the enduring poverty and backwardness of the first 50 years of independence. Its legacy is a country that still can't think of anything else you can do with money other than put it into land and buildings.

cordially,
Scofflaw

HellsAngel

Scofflaw wrote: »

Dev's largely agrarian Ireland produced the enduring poverty and backwardness of the first 50 years of independence. Its legacy is a country that still can't think of anything else you can do with money other than put it into land and buildings.

cordially,
Scofflaw

I'm no fan of Dev, but he and the others didn't have a rich hand to play with to start off, the Tans, Civil war, Wall St crash, land annunities of approx 4 million leaving the country, a huge sum at the time, WW2 (when the Irish population generally fared well unlike millions of others in Europe often on brink of starvation) etc

Under the circumstances, maybe they didn't do as bad as we often think ??

whelan1

mast farmers didnt loose the run of themselves in the boom years- apart from those who sold development land:o- also world prices for milk etc are quite high this year and this is also helping things

Count Dooku

Scofflaw wrote: »

While people always need to eat, poorer countries don't eat expensive imported meat if they eat meat at all - we export beef, the Chinese are beginning to eat beef, there's a lot of Chinese.

Agriculture is the best performer according to the CSO - the value of the sector grew from €768m and €1038m in Q1 and Q2 last year to €798m and €1109m Q1 and Q2 this year. For comparison, those figures in 2006 were €858m and €1102m respectively.

cordially,
Scofflaw

AN ESTIMATED 98% of all farm subsidy spending in Ireland in 2010 is being kept secret, according to the farmsubsidy.org team of journalists, transparency activists and computer programmers.

Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/farming/98-of-irish-farm-subsidy-spending-is-being-kept-secret-154229.html#ixzz1Yng9JLrk

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/farming/98-of-irish-farm-subsidy-spending-is-being-kept-secret-154229.html

Tora Bora

What's needed now is a very significant stimulus package, to drive on investment by farmers and agribusiness.
These sectors should be given very strong tax incentives and grants, to ensure maximum reinvestment of the current strong cash flow.
In the case of farmers, I propose that the universal social charge, should not apply to the first €150k turnover. :cool:

Tea drinker

Wasn't the Arab spring supposedly partially related to increasing food prices? Surely there are markets emerging in places we were normally priced out of.
Also last year was supposed to be the last year China would be a net exporter of food, how true that statement is proving to be I can't tell you.

Scofflaw, there is a big difference between digging a hole and pouring money into it, as opposed to diggging money out of the ground ;-)
Some buildings can do a lot to increase output and efficiency.
Your figures for output are encouraging. I wonder how much better the figures would be if we weren't misled (lied to?) by EU reps about the future viability of the sugar beet industry? I oft cycled by the Carlow plant in a past life, I think there are apartments there now..... someone was on the radio this week looking for $$$$ to open a new sugar beet plant in a better location.... i.e at least located in Ireland.

Diarmuid

The radio was saturated with reports from the ploughing champs. All reports seemed to be in the same vein. First would be claims of the success of Irish farming and how it was going to be the saviour of the economy. This would be followed by reports of how farmers wouldn't survive without CAP . I found it hard to reconcile the two

Good loser

Diarmuid wrote: »

The radio was saturated with reports from the ploughing champs. All reports seemed to be in the same vein. First would be claims of the success of Irish farming and how it was going to be the saviour of the economy. This would be followed by reports of how farmers wouldn't survive without CAP . I found it hard to reconcile the two

Farming will not save the economy no matter how well it does. It represents 5 -8% on the economy and is quite cyclical. Already world dairy prices have come about 15% off peak, with consequences for next year's output prices.

CAP is critical for many/most farmers. In the large beef sector gross CAP payments are greater then net income from the sector i.e. if the totality of cattle farmers completely ceased production the net income of the sector would increase.

It is quite likely, because of low output prices and high grain prices, that every pig farmer in the State will lose money this year. They are outside the CAP system - which is land based.

murphaph

Good loser wrote: »

It is quite likely, because of low output prices and high grain prices, that every pig farmer in the State will lose money this year. They are outside the CAP system - which is land based.

Are payments higher for land that is tilled as opposed to grazed? Is the rate of payment crop specific?

I'll be honest-I don't know much about CAP (I should do seeing as it is AFAIK the largest budget consumer in the EU). I am not generally in favour of subsidising private industry but I do actually see the sense in a European Union that has security of food supply, which I believe is the fundamental principle behind the CAP.

I know it means third world countries have a harder time competing against EU farms and shipping food to us BUT I am afraid to say that I do not want my food supply chain to be dependent on third world countries which, as is often the case, are unstable.

I am fascinated by the different types of farming one sees in Ireland compared to say Germany or Italy. In Germany the land is generally given over to tillage, with meat being produced by more intensive methods. Germans eat massive amounts of pork and I would say chicken comes second. They eat almost no lamb and beef very seldom. Seeing cows in the German countryside (at least in "Prussia") seems rare to me and if you do see them they are likely a dairy herd.

Do Irish farmers make more money from beef or is it that our wetter climate is less suitable for tillage?

paul71

murphaph wrote: »

Do Irish farmers make more money from beef or is it that our wetter climate is less suitable for tillage?

Substitute colder for wetter in the spring/summer and that is the reason, growing season in Ireland is about 3 weeks slower in Ireland than Central Europe. That makes more expensive to grow all crops and imposible to grow some.

The exception is grass, which often grows in mid winter in Ireland while central Europe is under 1 meter of snow. Livestock in central Europe often spends as much as 3 months indoors requiring intensive feeding/care, whereas it is rare for livestock to be indoors here.

irishh_bob

paul71 wrote: »

Substitute colder for wetter in the spring/summer and that is the reason, growing season in Ireland is about 3 weeks slower in Ireland than Central Europe. That makes more expensive to grow all crops and imposible to grow some.

The exception is grass, which often grows in mid winter in Ireland while central Europe is under 1 meter of snow. Livestock in central Europe often spends as much as 3 months indoors requiring intensive feeding/care, whereas it is rare for livestock to be indoors here.

you need scale in order to make a decent return from growing crops , farms in ireland are remarkably small by european or international standards , add to that the fact that despite what is often said , the bulk of land in ireland is not suitable for tillage , its either too wet , too stoney or too hilly , thier just isnt that many huge tracts of big open flat fields

paul71

irishh_bob wrote: »

you need scale in order to make a decent return from growing crops , farms in ireland are remarkably small by european or international standards , add to that the fact that despite what is often said , the bulk of land in ireland is not suitable for tillage , its either too wet , too stoney or too hilly , thier just isnt that many huge tracts of big open flat fields

That is true, but even where scale exsists and the land is flat and drained ie. Meath, Kildare, Carlow, Kilkenny and Wexford the growing season is longer than in Prussia, Czech and Poland because of colder spring/summer and moisture content is higher giving lower yields.

A 500 acre farm on flat drained land in Kildare would be far outproduced by a 500 acre farm outside Berlin or Prague for tillage. However the same farm fattening cattle in Kildare would outproduce the equivelent in Prussia/Czech.

kingofthehill

paul71 wrote: »

Substitute colder for wetter in the spring/summer and that is the reason, growing season in Ireland is about 3 weeks slower in Ireland than Central Europe. That makes more expensive to grow all crops and imposible to grow some.

The exception is grass, which often grows in mid winter in Ireland while central Europe is under 1 meter of snow. Livestock in central Europe often spends as much as 3 months indoors requiring intensive feeding/care, whereas it is rare for livestock to be indoors here.

The majority of farmers house their cattle in slatted sheds over the winter.

paul71

kingofthehill wrote: »

The majority of farmers house their cattle in slatted sheds over the winter.

Not really, the majority of mature animals are left out over winter, calves are taken in. Having spent 3 winters in central Europe I did not see any animals left out at night in tempetures of -20.

Edit: I think you may have missed the point I made, I have seen dairy and bullock heards in Czech stay in sheds for 4 months without going outside once simply because there is 1 meter of snow during the entire time, comparing that to the situation in Ireland is not realistic.

irishh_bob

paul71 wrote: »

That is true, but even where scale exsists and the land is flat and drained ie. Meath, Kildare, Carlow, Kilkenny and Wexford the growing season is longer than in Prussia, Czech and Poland because of colder spring/summer and moisture content is higher giving lower yields.

A 500 acre farm on flat drained land in Kildare would be far outproduced by a 500 acre farm outside Berlin or Prague for tillage. However the same farm fattening cattle in Kildare would outproduce the equivelent in Prussia/Czech.

500 acre farms are few and far behind in ireland , thier is no corn belt in this country

dev100

paul71 wrote: »

Not really, the majority of mature animals are left out over winter, calves are taken in. Having spent 3 winters in central Europe I did not see any animals left out at night in tempetures of -20.

Edit: I think you may have missed the point I made, I have seen dairy and bullock heards in Czech stay in sheds for 4 months without going outside once simply because there is 1 meter of snow during the entire time, comparing that to the situation in Ireland is not realistic.

I thought cattle have to be kept in over winter period here?

irishh_bob

dev100 wrote: »

I thought cattle have to be kept in over winter period here?

they are kept indoors in this country but the winter is longer in monaghan than it is in cork from a farming point of view , dairy cows would on average stay inside for no longer than three months ( often two ) in cork where as it could be five months in cavan , beef cattle would stay inside for five months in almost every county

irishh_bob

paul71 wrote: »

Not really, the majority of mature animals are left out over winter, calves are taken in. Having spent 3 winters in central Europe I did not see any animals left out at night in tempetures of -20.

Edit: I think you may have missed the point I made, I have seen dairy and bullock heards in Czech stay in sheds for 4 months without going outside once simply because there is 1 meter of snow during the entire time, comparing that to the situation in Ireland is not realistic.

your very mistaken about the majority of mature animals being left outside during the winter

dev100

irishh_bob wrote: »

they are kept indoors in this country but the winter is longer in monaghan than it is in cork from a farming point of view , dairy cows would on average stay inside for no longer than three months ( often two ) in cork where as it could be five months in cavan , beef cattle would stay inside for five months in almost every county

Kinda thinking I was on the right track. I may be wrong must ask uncle tomorrow, he is a dairy farmer. I think its the rule that the cattle have to be kept inside in the bad weather.

Good loser

paul71 wrote: »

A 500 acre farm on flat drained land in Kildare would be far outproduced by a 500 acre farm outside Berlin or Prague for tillage. However the same farm fattening cattle in Kildare would outproduce the equivelent in Prussia/Czech.

Don't think you're right there paul. Our corn yields per hectare i.e. barley and wheat are possibly the highest in the world per hectare. Not so though for sugar beet or oil seed rape.

Our farms are too small for intensive grain production.

Grass farming is more labour intensive and thus suits Ireland - as well as the climate.

When cattle are indoors their feed costs per day often exceeds their increase in value.

In general in Ireland dairy production is by far the most profitable system on a hectare basis. Beef and tillage (corn) are about equally profitable over the medium term.

irishh_bob

Good loser wrote: »

Don't think you're right there paul. Our corn yields per hectare i.e. barley and wheat are possibly the highest in the world per hectare. Not so though for sugar beet or oil seed rape.

Our farms are too small for intensive grain production.

Grass farming is more labour intensive and thus suits Ireland - as well as the climate.

When cattle are indoors their feed costs per day often exceeds their increase in value.

In general in Ireland dairy production is by far the most profitable system on a hectare basis. Beef and tillage (corn) are about equally profitable over the medium term.

potatoe growers in souther england get higher tonnange than potatoe growers in ireland , maybe its different with corn but land in england is every bit as fertile in ireland plus its a wee bit warmer

John_F

Good loser wrote: »

Don't think you're right there paul. Our corn yields per hectare i.e. barley and wheat are possibly the highest in the world per hectare. Not so though for sugar beet or oil seed rape.

Our farms are too small for intensive grain production.

Grass farming is more labour intensive and thus suits Ireland - as well as the climate.

When cattle are indoors their feed costs per day often exceeds their increase in value.

In general in Ireland dairy production is by far the most profitable system on a hectare basis. Beef and tillage (corn) are about equally profitable over the medium term.

+1 on grain yield. Recored yields: http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/agri-business/teagasc-record-crop-yields-reflect-good-harvest-for-grain-growers-167716.html

Irish farmers top eu wheat yield : http://www.agrimoney.com/news/irish-farmers-top-eu-wheat-yield-league--2279.html

but as they say about dairy farming yield is vanity and profit is sanity. costs in Ireland are higher than central Europe i would think, and with smaller farms margins would be tighter.

good thread but i hope that this doesn't put agriculture in the same boat as the construction industry was with speculation upon speculation have enough of this with the markets!). Just take a quick search on google for "farmer banker" and see what comes up!! about time agriculture and food were recognised for what they are. . . necessities!

Armin_Tamzarian

whelan1 wrote: »

mast farmers didnt loose the run of themselves in the boom years- apart from those who sold development land:o-

Shrewd move on their part TBH.

thetonynator

Armin_Tamzarian wrote: »

Shrewd move on their part TBH.

They didn't lose the run of themselves because they couldn't afford to. While everybody else had a massive rise in income over the boom years, farm incomes generally dropped bar one or two years.

Del2005

murphaph wrote: »

I know it means third world countries have a harder time competing against EU farms and shipping food to us BUT I am afraid to say that I do not want my food supply chain to be dependent on third world countries which, as is often the case, are unstable.

It's not that 3rd world countries can't compete with us. It's that subsidies make it cheaper for us to export to 3rd world countries and undermine their local argi industries. The EU isn't as bad but the US dumps loads of subsidised food into 3rd world countries.

whelan1

Armin_Tamzarian wrote: »

Shrewd move on their part TBH.

tbh most farmers i know who did sell land lost it all in investments etc , they are no better off now than they where before they sold it

whelan1

thetonynator wrote: »

They didn't lose the run of themselves because they couldn't afford to. While everybody else had a massive rise in income over the boom years, farm incomes generally dropped bar one or two years.

tbh this is the first year that i can live ... last year especially i found really tough, with young kids etc , working all hours for very little return

irishh_bob

John_F wrote: »

+1 on grain yield. Recored yields: http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/agri-business/teagasc-record-crop-yields-reflect-good-harvest-for-grain-growers-167716.html

Irish farmers top eu wheat yield : http://www.agrimoney.com/news/irish-farmers-top-eu-wheat-yield-league--2279.html

but as they say about dairy farming yield is vanity and profit is sanity. costs in Ireland are higher than central Europe i would think, and with smaller farms margins would be tighter.

good thread but i hope that this doesn't put agriculture in the same boat as the construction industry was with speculation upon speculation have enough of this with the markets!). Just take a quick search on google for "farmer banker" and see what comes up!! about time agriculture and food were recognised for what they are. . . necessities!

dairy farming costs in ireland are the lowest in europe thanks to our ability to grow grass

John_F

irishh_bob wrote: »

dairy farming costs in ireland are the lowest in europe thanks to our ability to grow grass

Yes! I was referring to the grain / tillage margins (in euros) being lower due to lower acreage and other factors!

Aidan1

Our farms are too small for intensive grain production.

Actually, that's entirely incorrect (but I see what you mean). As it happens, our tillage farms are very intensive producers of cereals - they have very high yields and very high inputs (capital and labour), but very variable profits. They are generally too small for extensive cereals production though, and our cereal growing areas are, in turn, generally too small for significant external economies of scale.

Murphaph, essentially it breaks down like this. We effectively have 4 farming economies in Ireland, all of which are dependent on the SFP to a greater or lesser degree.

Firstly, we have a beef suckler and sheep sector, focussed in the West and North West (but with outliers across the country), in small farms on land that varies from the average to the very marginal. In general, this sector is unprofitable, and is highly reliant on subsidies (in a great number of cases these farms run at a net loss - the SFP is used to subsidise an uneconomic operation). These farmers are often older and without successor too.

Secondly, we have a dairy sector, focussed on the mid west but with a strong presence throughout the South and East of the country. This sector has seen profound structural reform over the last 30 years, with productive capacity becoming focussed on those parts of the country with the best land and larger farmers. This is an area in which we have a comparative advantage in production, and a large amount of capacity in processing and marketing. The larger players in this sector are competitive on an international scale, but the industry as a whole is going to have to become a lot more efficient, which means larger units, run on a more professional basis, if it is to produce the productivity growth promised.

Thirdly, we have the tillage and beef finishing sector, which is focussed on the south and east. Tillage is less than 10% of our land use - we simply don't have the soils or the drainage patterns to go much beyond this, and it has become focussed quite tightly on a few areas (parts of Cork, Wexford, Carlow/Kildare, Louth Meath), but with some activity right throughout the rest of the east. Some tillage farms are mixed beef/tillage, but we do have some very large tillage only units, which operate on the same basis as large estates in the UK. Beef finishing, literally taking calves/weanlings from suckler/dairy units, is the other (apart from dairy) big export producer - but it's not really competitive with South American beef as it stands, hence the fear over WTO reform. As a sector its quite diverse, ranging from very large scale producers to part time operators.

Lastly, we have a pig and poultry (and mushroom) sector, focussed on a belt of small farms in the North midlands/border region, but with larger outliers elsewhere.

The essential problem we have is that we still have far too many farmers, and many of those that are in place are either unproductive, or not producing at all (particularly in the 'suckler' sector). Younger farmers, in turn, often can't expand because people are 'sitting' on land in order to claim the SFP, which drives up the price of land to a multiple of what it might be in a 'free market' situation. A lot of the cant you hear in the press about the glories of Irish agriculture is simply the IFA press office banging the drum - we could be producing a lot more, and exporting a lot more, but that would mean a dramatic reduction in the numbers of farmers, and sustained investment in agriculture by the private sector (banks). Neither of these things are likely in the short term, but the first (reduction in numbers) is happening anyways. CAP reform will only accelerate this. On the flip side, we have some very professional farmers, and we can produce products that the world wants. With a bit of luck, there are futher success stories out there, but severe reforms are required, many of them unpopular in the short term.

Tipp Man

Since when was Cork (the dairy capital of the country) in the mid-west??

Aidan1

Cork isn't the dairy capital of anything (it probably was until around 1815). If you're talking about large scale professional dairy farms, they're found across the country, but the primary focus is on what people used call the 'Golden Vale', which in reality covers North Kerry, parts of North Cork, Limerick, and South Tipp. The area around the city has a belt of sizeable dairy operators (more to the West than to the East), but the general profile of agriculture is relatively mixed - lot of tillage and finishing in there too.

Tipp Man

Aidan1 wrote: »

Cork isn't the dairy capital of anything (it probably was until around 1815). If you're talking about large scale professional dairy farms, they're found across the country, but the primary focus is on what people used call the 'Golden Vale', which in reality covers North Kerry, parts of North Cork, Limerick, and South Tipp. The area around the city has a belt of sizeable dairy operators (more to the West than to the East), but the general profile of agriculture is relatively mixed - lot of tillage and finishing in there too.

Look i am obviously talking about the entire Cork county and not just cork city area:rolleyes:

To put the dairy industry in Cork COUNTY in perpective - last year there was more heifers to be bulled in Cork COUNTY than in the entire country put together. It is a huge dairy area with very progressive farmers and to say otherwise is quite frankly ridiculous. Clonakilty to Skiberren is a huge dairy area - you can drive for miles and not see an acre under tillage and that's not North Cork by any stretch of the imagination

Of course South tipp, Limerick, West Waterford, parts of Kerry etc has excellent dairy farms - so do other parts of the country but Cork is the biggest by a long way

Aidan1

Cork county is also the biggest in the State, and has one of the largest percentages of 'good' agricultural land in the State- so it's hardly surprising that it has 'a lot' of dairying, but the general profile of agriculture is actually quite broad in the county, dairying isn't the sole focus.

You'll find large, well funded, well run dairy farms deep in all parts of the county, of course, but even us Cork people would be slow to suggest it makes the county the 'capital' of anything.

irishh_bob

Aidan1 wrote: »

Cork county is also the biggest in the State, and has one of the largest percentages of 'good' agricultural land in the State- so it's hardly surprising that it has 'a lot' of dairying, but the general profile of agriculture is actually quite broad in the county, dairying isn't the sole focus.

You'll find large, well funded, well run dairy farms deep in all parts of the county, of course, but even us Cork people would be slow to suggest it makes the county the 'capital' of anything.

while in volume , cork might have the largest volume of good land , as a percentage , that title falls to louth with 87% ( according to some poll conducted a few years back ) suitable for growing potatoes , leitrim came last in the same poll

Does the return of labour from construction have anything to do with it?

Teagasc have had to recruit additional staff to cope with increasing numbers of students:
http://www.teagasc.ie/news/2011/201109-20.asp

I know a few who have moved from construction into farming and it has been suggested to myself as a redundancy option.

5live

Aidan1 wrote: »

Cork county is also the biggest in the State, and has one of the largest percentages of 'good' agricultural land in the State- so it's hardly surprising that it has 'a lot' of dairying, but the general profile of agriculture is actually quite broad in the county, dairying isn't the sole focus.

You'll find large, well funded, well run dairy farms deep in all parts of the county, of course, but even us Cork people would be slow to suggest it makes the county the 'capital' of anything.

I think you will find cork people referring to cork as the real capital rather than just the capital. And we love their modesty too;)

Finnbar01

Tora Bora wrote: »

What's needed now is a very significant stimulus package, to drive on investment by farmers and agribusiness.
These sectors should be given very strong tax incentives and grants, to ensure maximum reinvestment of the current strong cash flow.
In the case of farmers, I propose that the universal social charge, should not apply to the first €150k turnover. :cool:

The government did that with the construction sector and look where that lead.

paul71

Finnbar01 wrote: »

The government did that with the construction sector and look where that lead.

The very simple counter arguement to that is that you cannot export a house, but you can export cheese, meat and processed food.

Finnbar01

paul71 wrote: »

The very simple counter arguement to that is that you cannot export a house, but you can export cheese, meat and processed food.

And the very simple counter arguement to that is that the market will become distorted, rampant speculation will take place and malinvestments will occur. Also you can 'export' houses in the form of CDO's.

jmayo

Good loser wrote: »

Don't think you're right there paul. Our corn yields per hectare i.e. barley and wheat are possibly the highest in the world per hectare. Not so though for sugar beet or oil seed rape.

Our farms are too small for intensive grain production.

Quiet true.
What land we do have under grain production would probably be some of our best and pretty good in comparison to a lot of the land used for grain production in some parts of the world. Also we don't have need for irrigation although our wet summers are screwing quality.
I believe the same applies to the UK.

I bet if you compare the bushels per acre return from a grain farm in Ireland/UK with massive grain farms in Australia, US, Canada, Southern France, etc ours would be much higher.
But cultivation area is a big factor in grain production and we don't have the farm sizes.
Thus we don't have the production volume.

Good loser wrote: »

Grass farming is more labour intensive and thus suits Ireland - as well as the climate.

We have one of the worlds best growing conditions for grass.
And that with our temperate climate make us ideal for cattle rearing and in particular dairying.
The same would apply with NZ, Denmark, UK.
Although parts of NZ do suffer from colder winters and drier summers meaning they became sheep rearing areas.

irishh_bob wrote: »

potatoe growers in souther england get higher tonnange than potatoe growers in ireland , maybe its different with corn but land in england is every bit as fertile in ireland plus its a wee bit warmer

UK would have far greater area suitable for tillage production and parts of uk would be milder climate.

thetonynator wrote: »

They didn't lose the run of themselves because they couldn't afford to. While everybody else had a massive rise in income over the boom years, farm incomes generally dropped bar one or two years.

Farm incomes have come back over the last few years and from tillage perpsective a lot of this has to do with bad luck for farmers in other areas of the world such as droughts in Western Australia and huge fires in Russia.
Farmers that did well during the bubble were either off farm employed in the construction industry or were in position to sell land for development.

The cost of land had a negative affect on full time farmers who could not afford to purchase land to expand, even though the banks often fired money at them.
The cost of pure farm land sky rocketed and did not bear any relation to what it could return in terms of agricultural output.

Tipp Man wrote: »

...
To put the dairy industry in Cork COUNTY in perpective - last year there was more heifers to be bulled in Cork COUNTY than in the entire country put together...

Always knew Cork was full of bull.

Tipp Man

Finnbar01 wrote: »

And the very simple counter arguement to that is that the market will become distorted, rampant speculation will take place and malinvestments will occur. Also you can 'export' houses in the form of CDO's.

Do you honestly think that you can compare items such as CDO's with food exports??

Finnbar01

Tipp Man wrote: »

Do you honestly think that you can compare items such as CDO's with food exports??

I'm talking about market distortions and malinvestments that go hand in hand with government interference in the market place, be it in the construction sector or food sector.

So investing in a CDO's or some food producing factory because government subsidies and tax incentives make it profitable (in the mean time) to do so, is the same thing.

Godge

Tipp Man wrote: »

To put the dairy industry in Cork COUNTY in perpective - last year there was more heifers to be bulled in Cork COUNTY than in the entire country put together.

Sure, aren't there always lots of desperate females down in Cork looking for males from outside the county:D:D:D

Aidan1

Apologies for disinterring an old thread, but this is pertinent.

The CSO have released the regional accounts for agriculture from 2008-10;

http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/agriculture/2010/agriacc_2008-2010.pdf

The main points being well captured in the headline;

In 2010, net subsidies accounted for 84.6% of agricultural income (operating surplus) at state level. In the Border, Midland and Western region, net subsidies accounted for 113.0% of agricultural income. For the Southern and Eastern region, for the same year, net subsidies accounted for 70.1% of agricultural income.

Or, in other words, in the BMW region, not alone are subsidies are providing income for farmers, they are also effectively covering the losses accrued by farmers in the region.