Faulty house alarms

Drweavil

Hi all, Long time reader, first time poster (well second). I've recently moved to Charlesland and find it a great place to live... however, I am really getting brow beaten by the constant wailing of faulty house alarms. There's one going off now for well over 2 hours around the corner from me and the house looks empty. As I'm sure many of you know the maximum time an alarm is allowed to announce is 20 minutes and after that it has to shut off so the owners of this house are in breach of the law. Right now I get the feeling that I won't get any sleep tonight
I was just wondering, considering this seems to be a common issue in the estate, is this something I could contact the management company about or would I have to track down the owner?

Blandpebbles

Probably worth searching the many threads on this first. No resolution

altor

Drweavil wrote: »

Hi all, Long time reader, first time poster (well second). I've recently moved to Charlesland and find it a great place to live... however, I am really getting brow beaten by the constant wailing of faulty house alarms. There's one going off now for well over 2 hours around the corner from me and the house looks empty. As I'm sure many of you know the maximum time an alarm is allowed to announce is 20 minutes and after that it has to shut off so the owners of this house are in breach of the law. Right now I get the feeling that I won't get any sleep tonight
I was just wondering, considering this seems to be a common issue in the estate, is this something I could contact the management company about or would I have to track down the owner?

The EN50131 standard for external bells sets the maximum duration for 15 minutes. This is only for alarms fitted from September 2003. There was meant to be a new law to cover all alarm systems but as yet it has not come about.

The best thing to do is try find out who owns the property and get them to get it fixed.

2011

IMHO the near constant din of alarms sounding in high density developments especially Charlesland has resulted in the protection alarms can provide being restricted to their ability to "phone out" (to a monitoring station or directly to a key holder) rather than making noise.

In other words, disconnect the sirens and ensure the alarms will contact key holders who can take immediate action. Even the sounders of alarms that work properly are lightly to be ignored, making the sounders pointless.

-just a thought

Watchtime

After 5 years i find they are a bit like a lullaby at night...can't sleep without them:D:D

d31b0y

Call the guards and ask them to check it out. What good is an alarm if no-one acts on them...

If my alarm was going off, I would want someone to give the guards a quick call, be it a faulty alarm or not.

The Bishop Basher

d31b0y wrote: »

Call the guards and ask them to check it out. What good is an alarm if no-one acts on them...

If my alarm was going off, I would want someone to give the guards a quick call, be it a faulty alarm or not.

Exactly. It amazes me that everyone sees alarms as an inconvenience. They are there to protect you and your belongings. If one of my neighbours alarms goes off I check it out. If it's the middle of the night I call the guards.

Where's the sense of community gone

2011

d31b0y wrote: »

If my alarm was going off, I would want someone to give the guards a quick call, be it a faulty alarm or not.

I'm sure you would if your alarm was genuine, but faulty???

In general if your alarm does not have a monitoring contract (and therefore service contract) the guards will not be interested. The Gardai simply do not have time to respond to all of the alarms going off.

Have a read of their Policy Document and it will give some indication.

d31b0y

2011 wrote: »

I'm sure you would if your alarm was genuine, but faulty???

Sorry, should have made myself clearer.

My point was, if you hear an alarm you can't just assume that it is faulty and not, if I had a faulty alarm I would want the guards around anyway.

Personally, if it was faulty and I knew it was faulty, I wouldn't turn it on in the first place. I would instead get it fixed.

Drweavil

Swanner wrote: »

Exactly. It amazes me that everyone sees alarms as an inconvenience. They are there to protect you and your belongings. If one of my neighbours alarms goes off I check it out. If it's the middle of the night I call the guards.

Where's the sense of community gone

Well I did say that I did check it out and the house did look empty. And yes I do see alarms as more than just an inconvenience, they are at best a noise pollutant. Just my opinion. In high density developments like these, they are a constant background drone and even when you find the house assoc. with the alarm, in many cases the house is empty.

2011

d31b0y wrote: »

My point was, if you hear an alarm you can't just assume that it is faulty and not, if I had a faulty alarm I would want the guards around anyway.

I know what you mean, but I guess it depends on how many alarms are going off. You could spend a lot of your time checking out false alarms.....

This is why the gardai took the approach that they did.

Personally, if it was faulty and I knew it was faulty, I wouldn't turn it on in the first place. I would instead get it fixed.

Fair enough, you are dead right to get it fixed. Otherwise it is like "the boy that called wolf".

It should also be noted that some faults (such as tamper) can cause false alarms even when the alarm is not set.

Huntthe

Outside bells should be done away with and all alarms should be monitored by keyholders which could be friends and family or a company. The guards are unlikely to respond to an alarm that is not monitored or being attended to by a keyholder. Alarsm if working correctly will sound for 20 mins. Faulty alarms or outside bells do not follow any rules.

Welsh Wizard

d31b0y wrote: »

Call the guards and ask them to check it out. What good is an alarm if no-one acts on them...

If my alarm was going off, I would want someone to give the guards a quick call, be it a faulty alarm or not.

Swanner wrote: »

Exactly. It amazes me that everyone sees alarms as an inconvenience. They are there to protect you and your belongings. If one of my neighbours alarms goes off I check it out. If it's the middle of the night I call the guards.

Where's the sense of community gone

If this was to happen the garda station would have to be on Stuperquinn round about..!!
Not a day goes by when a house alarm can be heard screaming away.
I was told that the owners knows its alarm has be set off as the alarm give a report to the owner on his/her return...??
If this is true then why... 5 years later are we still getting the same problem...???

It boils down to the same thing, same as the feckin dogs barking, people in these estates couldnt careless about other folk in the neighbour hood..

Sense of commuity you ask...?.... That died a long time before the celtic tiger did...

Rant over.. **Im off out to sit in the back garden and enjoy the sun..:cool:


**= Excludes Alarm sirens and barking dogs

2011

Huntthe wrote: »

Outside bells should be done away with and all alarms should be monitored by keyholders which could be friends and family or a company. The guards are unlikely to respond to an alarm that is not monitored or being attended to by a keyholder. Alarsm if working correctly will sound for 20 mins. Faulty alarms or outside bells do not follow any rules.

+1
Pretty much what I said

Huntthe

Something to bare in mind is that the person living in the house may not be the owner and so may be (or feel) powerless to remedy a situation where the alarm is faulty.

altor

I would have to agree and disagree with some comments in this thread.
The noise regulations that was meant to come in would do away with external bells ringing all day. An external bell is a must on any system. Yes I agree if the bell is ringing all day due to a fault then something should be done about it. That is where the law fails as if it was implemented then this issue would soon stop.
An external plus internal bell is a deterrent on an alarm system. They are meant to draw attention to the house in question plus deter the burglar from proceeding breaking into your home. It is all well and good putting a dummy bell on your home and connecting the alarm to a monitoring station but in these times more and more people are going for standalone alarm systems. At lease with new alarm systems they only ring for the allowed 15 minutes then reset. So if there is a fault this will only happen 3 times till the system is disarmed.

Fi Fi

My 'sense of community' is never strong at 4am when my household is woken up by yet another alarm. I won't investigate or call the guards because chances of knowing which house on an estate this big are slim. Also what am I supposed to do if I find a burglar? Give them a dirty look? I've paid for an internal ringer on my alarm which is monitored. I have enough respect for other people in this community not to disturb their nights sleep. That's where my sense of community is.

altor

That is an understandable response but people who are not as lucky as you and cant afford to have there system monitored rely on community awareness of there system activating. The down side to your system is if down the road you don't have the money to have your system monitored only your neighbour will hear your internal bell going off. If an external bell is not fitted on a new system then two internal bells need to be fitted if it is not monitored, that will wake your neighbours both sides. If they where to take your point of not wanting to being seen looking to see why your alarm has activated then where would you stand. Most systems can be set up to turn off after a pre-programmed time so that plus faulty alarm systems ringing out all day is where the issues lye.

Huntthe

I disagree apout the importance of an outside bell. The most effective deterrent is that the alarm is monitored ,be it by a company or keyholder. If this is evident from the outside odds are a potential burglar will move on.

altor

I can understand your view if you are referring to an old alarm system that has got a fault and the bell rings for days but with alarm systems installed to today's standard the alarm will ring for the maximum time of 15 minutes. If there is a fault on a sensor on the system the alarm will activate, rearm, activate, rearm, activate, rearm omitting the faulty zone off the system. That would be 45 minutes of time the bell activates for. Much better than the older systems that the bell rings for days.

How can you make a system evident from the outside that it is monitored ?

If this is possible have you considered since everyone now knows its monitored, that blocking the dialer from communicating with the monitoring station, or a key-holder will have an effect on the alarm ?

Huntthe

If there is a fault on a sensor on the system the alarm will activate, rearm, activate, rearm, activate, rearm omitting the faulty zone off the system.

I am not familiar with any alarm systems commonly used that omit a zone that activates on a regular and continuos basis

How can you make a system evident from the outside that it is monitored ?

A dummy bell box.

If this is possible have you considered since everyone now knows its monitored, that blocking the dialer from communicating with the monitoring station, or a key-holder will have an effect on the alarm ?

Your making the burglars sound like they are whiz kids. Most burglars are opportunists and have no idea about jamming. The only time I heard of this was when a gang was climbing onto the roof of business premises to block signals with some fairly high tech gear. They are in prison.

2011

Huntthe wrote: »

Your making the burglars sound like they are whiz kids. Most burglars are opportunists and have no idea about jamming. The only time I heard of this was when a gang was climbing onto the roof of business premises to block signals with some fairly high tech gear. They are in prison.

You are correct, most burglars are opportunists. However stopping an alarm from communicating with a monitoring is very simple if a landline is used and only slightly more complicated if a GSM module is installed. The equipment required is cheap, easy to use and very easy to buy online. I won't go into the details but if anyone doubts me ask any of the posters on the alarm forum

altor

Huntthe wrote: »

I am not familiar with any alarm systems commonly used that omit a zone that activates on a regular and continuos basis

That is what happens with a new system installed to the EN50131 Standard. The rearm count is set for the zones in the panel. It is as I have explained designed to cut down on an alarm with a fault going off all the time.

Huntthe wrote: »

A dummy bell box.

A dummy bell box. How does a dummy bell box show you have a monitored alarm system ? Please explain.

Huntthe wrote: »

Your making the burglars sound like they are whiz kids. Most burglars are opportunists and have no idea about jamming. The only time I heard of this was when a gang was climbing onto the roof of business premises to block signals with some fairly high tech gear. They are in prison.

By blocking the dialer it could be by any forms. The GSM blocker you refer to was on a commercial, that's why it was so big, one the size of a mobile is big enough to use on domestic. What about your phone line, would you class this as secure ? If you have an alarm monitored through your phone line i would suggest having a look at the entry point to your home.

Huntthe

A dummy bell box. How does a dummy bell box show you have a monitored alarm system ? Please explain.

"Monitored by so and so" Simple advertisment, not rocket science.

By blocking the dialer it could be by any forms. The GSM blocker you refer to was on a commercial, that's why it was so big, one the size of a mobile is big enough to use on domestic. What about your phone line, would you class this as secure ? If you have an alarm monitored through your phone line i would suggest having a look at the entry point to your home

Simple fact is a burglar will not go to all the trouble of trying to use a blocker if there is an easier option. Sure newer housing where the landline comes in low down are at risk. I would recommend a Gsm backup in that situation and would be confident that a burglar is not going to go to the trouble of cutting my landline and attempting to block the Gsm unless I have gold bullion in the kitchen.

altor

Huntthe wrote: »

"Monitored by so and so" Simple advertisment, not rocket science.

That does not mean the alarm is monitored. There are plenty of P.W dummy boxes on houses with no monitoring. Having a monitored alarm installed by any company does not mean your house wont be broken into.

If this was the case we would all have a dummy on the front of our house or business saying monitored alarm installed

Huntthe wrote: »

Simple fact is a burglar will not go to all the trouble of trying to use a blocker if there is an easier option. Sure newer housing where the landline comes in low down are at risk. I would recommend a Gsm backup in that situation and would be confident that a burglar is not going to go to the trouble of cutting my landline and attempting to block the Gsm unless I have gold bullion in the kitchen.

So you do now agree there is a risk.
As these blockers become more available would you agree there will be a risk to anyone using a GSM as a back up or as there main communications to a monitoring station ?

Huntthe

altor wrote: »

That does not mean the alarm is monitored. There are plenty of P.W dummy boxes on houses with no monitoring. Having a monitored alarm installed by any company does not mean your house wont be broken into.

If this was the case we would all have a dummy on the front of our house or business saying monitored alarm installed



So you do now agree there is a risk.
As these blockers become more available would you agree there will be a risk to anyone using a GSM as a back up or as there main communications to a monitoring station ?

A dummy bellbox simply means a box that doesn't ring. Maybe the property is monitored maybe it isn't. The burglar won't know. It could be monitored by a company or set up just for Keyholders (neighbours or friends) There is always a risk, however small, alarms are a deterrent that is it . You are highlighting unlikely scenarios. For what reason, I do not know.

altor

Huntthe wrote: »

A dummy bellbox simply means a box that doesn't ring. Maybe the property is monitored maybe it isn't. The burglar won't know.

So there is now no way of showing if the system is monitored or not as you where suggesting :cool:

Huntthe wrote: »

It could be monitored by a company or set up just for Keyholders (neighbours or friends) There is always a risk, however small, alarms are a deterrent that is it .

Yes, there is always a risk and people are entitled to know about it. If communications to a monitoring station are blocked then how is anyone else to know about it either. Some company's use dummy bells but if the customer does stop there monitoring then they have no outside bell to alert people of a potential break in.

Huntthe wrote: »

You are highlighting unlikely scenarios. For what reason, I do not know.

I am simply making people aware of the situation. If people dont know about it does that it right ?