Is Alcoholism a disease?

TheyKnowMyIP

iguana wrote: »

More people die annually from alcohol addiction than do from any single form of cancer. Addiction is an extremely serious medical condition. It isn't as simple as they are just people making a selfish choice. But neither is it as complex as it being a mysterious lifelong illness.

You have just confirmed my original thoughts on this matter. Once socioeconomic factors are involved, all bets are off.

artanevilla

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

Your post is meaningless. I require the specific context surrounding this word. Context sensitivity.

I quoted your post, that's the context, you've highlighted words in the post you've quoted, completely ignoring the word 'or' which makes your post irrelevent.

TheyKnowMyIP

artanevilla wrote: »

I see it all the time in my line of work. I believe it is a diesese. You say you are 'addicted' to chocolate, but then go on to say it's your choice and you can stop anytime? You do know that 'I'm addicted to' and 'I enjoy' are two completely different things?

At least I don't make unfounded assumptions about what is and isn't a disease. Not trying to be snide, but I don't always believe someone just because they wear a white coat and pretend they know what they are talking about.

For the record, I wake up with headaches once I miss my chocolate. Seems like dependency to me. Dependency is not a disease. It's a choice.

User Friendly

I would guess that the posters who say it is not a disease clearly have never been affected by alcoholism.

TheyKnowMyIP

artanevilla wrote: »

I quoted your post, that's the context, you've highlighted words in the post you've quoted, completely ignoring the word 'or' which makes your post irrelevent.

Please explain.

whatdoicare

I have two close/immediate family members who are alcoholics and roll out this disease crap the whole time - it never occurred to them until some idiot in AA gave them this excuse.

They drink because they love to drink, they love it from the planning and hoarding stage to the first sip, the getting away with it for a while stage, till they get blotto to the shouting matches, feeling sorry for themselves stage, insisting they'll change stage to the hugs all round and forgiveness stage.

They most especially love the drama and chaos that goes with it all.

They live for it - to them it's like living in a series drama like coronation street all the time! Everyone in the family and our immediate world is revolving around them 24/7 - it pops up in all our conversations, in all their conversations, it's all neighbours talk to us about.

They take over all our big occasions, our holidays, birthdays, weddings. We spend all those bending over backwards to make sure anything they want happens so they'll be there - SOBER. Otherwise, as punishment, our special days are cancelled- we now must spend this day in blackness as the Alcoholic indulges and abuses us- both in public and in private. Even if the day isn't cancelled - the day is black - the Alcoholic like a black cloud weighing on all our heads.

It's the ultimate attention seeking and controlling behaviour. Alcoholism is most definitely NOT a disease - it's a disease on the family for certain but for the Alcoholic it's something far more self centered and selfish.

This is all from personal experience....I apologise if it comes across as biased and enraged.

RichT

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

I am not so sure. Alcoholism does not fit the diagnostic profile of an actual disease. Personally speaking, I am "addicted" to trolling. This is a result of my choice. I can stop. People with cancer cannot just "stop" metastasis. Self control is a great thing.

Fixed your typo.

iguana

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

You have just confirmed my original thoughts on this matter. Once socioeconomic factors are involved, all bets are off.

I honestly don't have a clue what you mean by this or how the part of my post which you quoted resulted in this comment?

Seachmall

It's disease in this sense:

"any harmful, depraved, or morbid condition, as of the mind or society: His fascination with executions is a disease."

But not in this sense:

"a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavorable environmental factors; illness; sickness; ailment."

It doesn't fit the medical use of the word but it does fit the colloquial use.

However an addiction can cause incorrect functioning of organs resulting in a more grounded addiction (e.g. craving heroine as your body is now failing to produce specific chemicals). In this sense it can fit the medical definition.

TheyKnowMyIP

Seachmall wrote: »

It's disease in this sense:

"any harmful, depraved, or morbid condition, as of the mind or society: His fascination with executions is a disease."

But not in this sense:

"a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavorable environmental factors; illness; sickness; ailment."

It doesn't fit the medical use of the word but it does fit the colloquial use.

So it's not a disease?

Seachmall

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

So it's not a disease?

Read the edit.

Depends on what type of addiction and what definition of disease you're using.

TheyKnowMyIP

As long as I don't reach the LD_50, who is to say drinking excessively isn't my choice, assuming I drink all day and all night. A few cans maybe later. Nice.

TheyKnowMyIP

Seachmall wrote: »

Read the edit.

My fault. I am speaking from an entirely medical point of view. The cynic in me wonders if this disease profile is merely a gain for insurance companies, while avoiding the real truth of the matter.

Seachmall

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

My fault. I am speaking from an entirely medical point of view. The cynic in me wonders if this disease profile is merely a gain for insurance companies, while avoiding the real truth of the matter.

Well if you get addicted to a drug like heroine it can substitute naturally occurring chemicals. Your body stops producing those chemicals expecting an external source.

You could say the addiction isn't the disease but merely a side-effect of a disease.

Semantics imo.

Little Acorn

I clicked yes, but I can see why some people are trying to say, Is addiction the same as disease?
I tend to see it as some sort of sickness of the mind.
A psychological illness that usually needs to be treated with support and maybe counselling, although some might be able to overcome some types of addiction themselves such as quitting smoking.

Is a psychological condition a disease, such as addiction or depression?
I definitely think they are disorders or sicknesses that need to be treated, it's just that often the treatment is not medicine as in with a regular disease, but counselling and support services are still treating an illness none the less.
[I know that depression can also be treated sometimes with medicine, and that there are antabuse tablets for drink problems too]

I don't know if people are born with or not. I know it can seem to run in families, but I'm not sure if that is just to do with environment or not. I know that people who never had addiction problems could develop alcohol dependency much later in life, sometimes due to bad events, or sometimes it just can seem to be for no obvious reason.

I don't think anybody should use it being a disease as an excuse for their behavior, as I think they should be trying their best to overcome it. I know that is easier said than done, some really want to but can't without help, and some are so gripped by it, that they just actually can't make themselves want want to stop.

It's definitely a mind sickness of some sort that also causes physical illness and sickness, and sometimes death.

TheyKnowMyIP

Little Acorn wrote: »

I clicked yes, but I can see why some people are trying to say, Is addiction the same as disease?
I tend to see it as some sort of sickness of the mind.
A psychological illness that usually needs to be treated with support and maybe counselling, although some might be able to overcome some types of addiction themselves such as quitting smoking.

Is a psychological condition a disease, such as addiction or depression?
I definitely think they are disorders or sicknesses that need to be treated, it's just that often the treatment is not medicine as in with a regular disease, but counselling and support services are still treating an illness none the less.
[I know that depression can also be treated sometimes with medicine, and that there are antabuse tablets for drink problems too]

I don't know if people are born with or not. I know it can seem to run in families, but I'm not sure if that is just to do with environment or not. I know that people who never had addiction problems could develop alcohol dependency much later in life, sometimes due to bad events, or sometimes it just can seem to be for no obvious reason.

I don't think anybody should use it being a disease as an excuse for their behavior, as I think they should be trying their best to overcome it. I know that is easier said than done, some really want to but can't without help, and some are so gripped by it, that they just actually can't make themselves want want to stop.

It's definitely a mind sickness of some sort that also causes physical illness and sickness, and sometimes death.

"Mind sickness"? Who is to say what is and isn't a "mind sickness". Sick implies a disease/medical condition of some sort, no? I like to brush my teeth with boar bristles sometimes, is this decision the product of a sick mind? Perhaps misunderstood is the term you are looking for.

Personally, I like cultural diversity as a concept.

Galway K9

nivekd wrote: »

What other animal on the planet gets intoxicated and calls it a disease? :pac:

It's just in a long line of excuses for drinking, a fairly pathetic one at that.

I've no sympathy for alcoholic who excuses his/her behaviour as a disease.

well ****ing said!!! well said! some intellect!

geetar wrote: »

yes it is a disease

am....your argument? lol

SlimCi

Having first hand experience of alcoholism with my mother, it is my opinion that this is a disease. It seems to be carried in the genetic makeup also as my great grandfather and some other family members have also been alcoholic. There is also research that the children of alcoholics are more prone to becoming alcoholic themselves. Having watched my mother go through the agony of trying to stop for years broke my heart but eventually with the help of others she succeeded. Given that I was an only child with a dead father and an alcholic mother I don't think that she MADE A CHOICE to hurt her much loved child, she couldn't help it and I saw first hand the pain it caused my mother that she just couldn't control it. The funny thing also is it has nothing to do with copious amounts of drink, its that reliance on HAVING to have one two or three. I hope those of you who have been so black and white in your negative opinions never have to face this problem with your children or relations as life is made up of varying shades of grey, and I hope you would not be so judgemental then. My mother is now dead, and very much missed and I am so proud of her that she managed to kick the habit, she did it for her family and certainly not for herself, because she just didn't love herself enough for that.

Little Acorn

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

"Mind sickness"? Who is to say what is and isn't a "mind sickness". Sick implies a disease/medical condition of some sort, no? I like to brush my teeth with boar bristles sometimes, is this decision the product of a sick mind? Perhaps misunderstood is the term you are looking for.

Personally, I like cultural diversity as a concept.

Perhaps mind sickness is not the most technical or correct term. I just think that something is definitely going wrong in the brain of alcoholics. They are harming themselves both emotionally and physically yet continue to repeatedly do so, they also continue to hurt the people they love, even if they want to stop.
You are not harming anyone brushing your teeth with boar bristles except maybe the poor boar!:P

iguana

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

My fault. I am speaking from an entirely medical point of view. The cynic in me wonders if this disease profile is merely a gain for insurance companies, while avoiding the real truth of the matter.

The cynic in you would be partially correct and partially ass backwards. Insurance companies are actually big losers when it comes to the disease definition as they are the ones who end up paying out the 5 and 6 figure sums to rehab facilities and addiction specialists. I'm quite sure that most insurance companies would be ecstatic if they were told alcoholism treatment is no longer something they are required to cover.

However the history of the NCADD in America (formerly the NCA) and Marty Mann in particular and many of the nonsensical and repeatedly disproved studies and medical reports she used to petition AMA to define alcoholism as a medical issue is worthy of a very healthy dose of cynicism.

TheyKnowMyIP

Galway K9 wrote: »

well ****ing said!!! well said! some intellect!




am....your argument? lol

Because the government/mind doctors social arbitrators said so. Now sit back down like a good citizen...

woodoo

There is obviously a physiological basis for alcoholism as people can die during withdrawals. Show me someone who died because they stopped eating chocolate??

Galway K9

Alright lads, lets all get hammered, go out rape loads of women and then in court on Monday just say to the judge that it was the disease. Im pretty sure they'll be excuse it as it is a disease.

I know people off drink for 20 years and 14 years in AA and left on the basis that they call it a disease and thats only a cop out for not taking responsibility for their actions.....

Also Bill W the founder of AA never once mentioned a disease, that was introduced by the treatment centres.


The difference between a real disease like AIDS compared to alcoholism, at any stage you can stop drinking, ya cant stop dying from aids.

TheyKnowMyIP

woodoo wrote: »

people can die during withdrawals.

LOL

celj

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

LOL

Whats so funny about people dying through withdrawal???

I, personally, wouldn't consider it a disease. People chose to drink, therefore IMO, it their own fault.

If Alcoholism is a disease, does that make any other similar addictions a disease?

So smoking & doing illegal drugs are diseases too?

Like a couple of posts in thi thread, I believe it's just an excuse.

Long Term Louth

SlimCi wrote: »

Having first hand experience of alcoholism with my mother, it is my opinion that this is a disease. It seems to be carried in the genetic makeup also as my great grandfather and some other family members have also been alcoholic. There is also research that the children of alcoholics are more prone to becoming alcoholic themselves. Having watched my mother go through the agony of trying to stop for years broke my heart but eventually with the help of others she succeeded. Given that I was an only child with a dead father and an alcholic mother I don't think that she MADE A CHOICE to hurt her much loved child, she couldn't help it and I saw first hand the pain it caused my mother that she just couldn't control it. The funny thing also is it has nothing to do with copious amounts of drink, its that reliance on HAVING to have one two or three. I hope those of you who have been so black and white in your negative opinions never have to face this problem with your children or relations as life is made up of varying shades of grey, and I hope you would not be so judgemental then. My mother is now dead, and very much missed and I am so proud of her that she managed to kick the habit, she did it for her family and certainly not for herself, because she just didn't love herself enough for that.

A very touching account, and agree with almost all of it, however she did it for her family and certainly not for herself, from experienceI can say that until the day you do it for yourself, it will not work. Id imagine that one day something made your mother quit, why all the previous failed attempts.

Potential-Monke

I don't care what anyone says, everyone has a choice, just that it's harder for some people to make the right choice. Yes, heroine is addictive and people get hooked on it, but people have also recovered from heroine addiction. And heroine is immediately addictive (allegedly). Drink is an addiction built up, i could nearly guarantee no-one had their first drink and said to themselves "i can never live without this, i need it!".

People who are alcoholics have a choice to stop, and there is a sheite load of help out there, more so than people with proper addictions, and anyone who chooses to contiue being an alcoholic is, imo, stupid.

So, no, it's not a disease, it's not an addiction, not a dependency, and if it wasn't the first widely recognised holic word i wouldn't call it a holic. It's an excuse.

iguana

Galway K9 wrote: »

Alright lads, lets all get hammered, go out rape loads of women and then in court on Monday just say to the judge that it was the disease. Im pretty sure they'll be excuse it as it is a disease.

That happens very regularly. Only a few months ago a Tallaght man who was convicted of sexually abusing his neighbours child was given a non-custodial sentence on the basis that he had joined AA and was making an effort to tackle his drinking.

Galway K9 wrote: »

Also Bill W the founder of AA never once mentioned a disease, that was introduced by the treatment centres.

That's a myth. There are numerous references in the first edition of the Big Book to alcoholism being a disease. But Wilson was an opportunistic charlatan throughout his life. What he said about alcoholism has as much validity as what L. Ron Hubbard had to say about extra-terrestrial life.

woodoo

Galway K9 wrote: »

The difference between a real disease like AIDS compared to alcoholism, at any stage you can stop drinking, ya cant stop dying from aids.

Type 2 Diabetes is a disease but you can live a perfectly normal life if you control your sugar intake.

Once someone has become alcoholic alcohol has a different effect on their nervous system than it does on someone that is not addicted.

How do you explain the very severe withdrawal a serious alcoholic experiences?