Is Alcoholism a disease?

mattjack

whatdoicare wrote: »

I have two close/immediate family members who are alcoholics and roll out this disease crap the whole time - it never occurred to them until some idiot in AA gave them this excuse.

They drink because they love to drink, they love it from the planning and hoarding stage to the first sip, the getting away with it for a while stage, till they get blotto to the shouting matches, feeling sorry for themselves stage, insisting they'll change stage to the hugs all round and forgiveness stage.

They most especially love the drama and chaos that goes with it all.

They live for it - to them it's like living in a series drama like coronation street all the time! Everyone in the family and our immediate world is revolving around them 24/7 - it pops up in all our conversations, in all their conversations, it's all neighbours talk to us about.

They take over all our big occasions, our holidays, birthdays, weddings. We spend all those bending over backwards to make sure anything they want happens so they'll be there - SOBER. Otherwise, as punishment, our special days are cancelled- we now must spend this day in blackness as the Alcoholic indulges and abuses us- both in public and in private. Even if the day isn't cancelled - the day is black - the Alcoholic like a black cloud weighing on all our heads.

It's the ultimate attention seeking and controlling behaviour. Alcoholism is most definitely NOT a disease - it's a disease on the family for certain but for the Alcoholic it's something far more self centered and selfish.

This is all from personal experience....I apologise if it comes across as biased and enraged.

No apology needed ,my family has been down that road with multiple alcoholics in it .We have experienced everything you have, neglecting responsibiltie's ,legal issues, relationship problems and dangerous behaviour.Unfortunately our result was two dead , one from withdrawal symptoms and a suicide,never mind the fact that another should be in prison for killing someone.
I don't however believe its a disease,though some people are predisposed to it,but I would regard it as an addiction
From my family experiences unless you can pay for initial treatment by way of intervention you are in real difficulty.

TheyKnowMyIP

lastlaugh wrote: »

What kind of Doctor would tell your mate 'he will follow the same line eventually' despite him not drinking himself?

Hmmm?

His words, not mine. I don't believe he is lying, but I don't know fully either way. A disease generally has a genetic component. Surely by definition, this man should be an alcoholic too? I dunno.

lastlaugh

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

His words, not mine. I don't believe he is lying, but I don't know fully either way. A disease generally has a genetic component. Surely by definition, this man should be an alcoholic too? I dunno.

Do you think it's a disease?

TheyKnowMyIP

lastlaugh wrote: »

Do you think it's a disease?

No. I think it's an addiction/mental distress thing. You don't drink or abuse drugs not to fill a gap missing in your life. This dreary country would lead anyone to drink. I believe it's probably the biggest problem facing this country, next to the recession.

I know people who drink merely to suppress emotion. That ain't healthy. Lying to ourselves about calling it a disease ignores the real issues surrounding the idea that some people believe getting hammered most nights is healthy.

There appears to be a strong relationship between alcohol and suicide. Grim.

Lab_Mouse

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

Your post is an opinion. The burden of proof lies with those that claim Alcoholism is a real clinical disease. So far, I am not convinced.

No,the burder of proof is with you,you're the one making the claim that its not a disease

EDIT:forget it there are 2 forums i dont talk to newly reg'ed users...afterhours and CT

tolosenc

No. You just rack a disaprin.

TheyKnowMyIP

Lab_Mouse wrote: »

No,the burder of proof is with you,you're the one making the claim that its not a disease

No conclusive evidence exists to support the idea that Alcoholism is a biological disease. Seems reasonable to doubt a hypothesis without strong evidence.

DoneDL

I have friends and family that haven`t had a drink in variations of 10 to 30 years. They are generally the best of fun but if were out at family get togethers, weddings etc they are very careful of their drinks just in case they pick up the wrong one. A coke with Vodka or rum looks like a coke. So find a medical defination for that.

iguana

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

No conclusive evidence exists to support the idea that Alcoholism is a biological disease. Seems reasonable to doubt a hypothesis without strong evidence.

Actually it sort of does. The medical definition of a disease includes the type of injury which occurs following long term alcohol abuse. And we there is plenty of conclusive evidence that severe damage to the GABAergic regions of the brain occurs following long term alcohol abuse.

iguana

DoneDL wrote: »

I have friends and family that haven`t had a drink in variations of 10 to 30 years. They are generally the best of fun but if were out at family get togethers, weddings etc they are very careful of their drinks just in case they pick up the wrong one. A coke with Vodka or rum looks like a coke. So find a medical defination for that.

That's either (a) a poor understanding of the neurochemistry of addiction or (b) an understandable preference to play it safe when it comes to a substance that has caused them serious problems.

Sunnyisland

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

Alcoholism is merely a symptom of stupidity.

Must have a lot of stupid people in this country.

Lab_Mouse

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

No conclusive evidence exists to support the idea that Alcoholism is a biological disease. Seems reasonable to doubt a hypothesis without strong evidence.

yeah i get to quote myself!!!

Lab_Mouse wrote: »

EDIT:forget it there are 2 forums i dont talk to newly reg'ed users...afterhours and CT

Sunnyisland

In a 1992 JAMA article, the Joint Committee of the National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence, Inc. (NCADD) and the American Society of Addiction Medicine (ASAM) published this definition for alcoholism:

“Alcoholism is a primary chronic disease with genetic, psychosocial and environmental factors influencing its development and manifestations. The disease is often progressive and fatal. It is characterized by impaired control over drinking, preoccupation with the drug alcohol, use of alcohol despite adverse consequences, and distortions in thinking, mostly denial. Each of these symptoms may be continuous or periodic.”

Sunnyisland

The progression of the disease is so subtle and usually takes place over such an extended period of time, that even the alcoholic him/herself failes to notice the point at which they loose control -- and alcohol takes over -- there life.No wonder denial is an almost universal symptom of the disease.

TheyKnowMyIP

Really interesting to see how closely split the results are. I don't know what to think. Anybody read Heavy Drinking: The Myth of Alcoholism as a Disease by Herbert Fingarette?

username123

Having grown up in a home with an alcoholic parent and been exposed to the absolute worst it can get, my opinion is that its some kind of mental disorder.

My father was an incredibly intelligent man, its very insulting for people to dismiss alcoholics as just stupid. If you had any experience of it you would know its not like that at all.

He HATED being an alcoholic. He just could not stop himself. I mean that quite literally, he could NOT stop himself. It was like an overwhelming compulsion where he quite possibly would have murdered a person if they stood between him and the booze.

It is a disgusting, crazy addiction/disease/mental illness/whatever that leads to horrific physical consequences. By the time he was dead he was like a brain damaged person, literally the personality had been wiped away and all that remained was an animal instinct to get to the next drink.

He would spend weeks lying in one position in vomit, blood and bodily wastes on a floor, moving only to crawl to the next bottle and bring it back to the floor, semi comatose, waking only to suck in more alcohol. No one chooses to be like that. You cant tell me, after what Ive witnessed first hand that anyone would choose to live like that, and they are just stupid people.

The propensity for addiction runs through his entire family, brothers and sisters who are alcoholics, a parent with a gambling addiction, grandparents alcoholics. I dont know if its a result of genetics or environment.

I am scared of alcohol. I am afraid that I could be the next person to develop that hideous disease or addiction or mental illness or whatever you want to call it.

TheyKnowMyIP

username123 wrote: »

Having grown up in a home with an alcoholic parent and been exposed to the absolute worst it can get, my opinion is that its some kind of mental disorder.

My father was an incredibly intelligent man, its very insulting for people to dismiss alcoholics as just stupid. If you had any experience of it you would know its not like that at all.

He HATED being an alcoholic. He just could not stop himself. I mean that quite literally, he could NOT stop himself. It was like an overwhelming compulsion where he quite possibly would have murdered a person if they stood between him and the booze.

It is a disgusting, crazy addiction/disease/mental illness/whatever that leads to horrific physical consequences. By the time he was dead he was like a brain damaged person, literally the personality had been wiped away and all that remained was an animal instinct to get to the next drink.

He would spend weeks lying in one position in vomit, blood and bodily wastes on a floor, moving only to crawl to the next bottle and bring it back to the floor, semi comatose, waking only to suck in more alcohol. No one chooses to be like that. You cant tell me, after what Ive witnessed first hand that anyone would choose to live like that, and they are just stupid people.

The propensity for addiction runs through his entire family, brothers and sisters who are alcoholics, a parent with a gambling addiction, grandparents alcoholics. I dont know if its a result of genetics or environment.

I am scared of alcohol. I am afraid that I could be the next person to develop that hideous disease or addiction or mental illness or whatever you want to call it.

Alcohol is nasty ****. I would not touch the stuff. Anyway, I wonder is this poll rigged? 50:50 split seems a little suspicious.

Sunnyisland

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

Alcohol is nasty ****. I would not touch the stuff. Anyway, I wonder is this poll rigged? 50:50 split seems a little suspicious.

How would the poll be rigged unless the mods are drinking

Sunnyisland

As a person who suffers from this disease,i know all to well what it does to ones family and friends, We have to stop moralizing, blaming, controlling or smirking at the person with the disease of addiction, and start creating opportunities for individuals and families to get help and providing assistance in choosing proper treatment

woodoo

There will be alot of people who voted in the poll who wouldn't have the first clue about alcoholism so i wouldn't put much store in it.

ItsAWindUp

nivekd wrote: »

What other animal on the planet gets intoxicated and calls it a disease? :pac:

It's just in a long line of excuses for drinking, a fairly pathetic one at that.

I've no sympathy for alcoholic who excuses his/her behaviour as a disease.

You obviously haven't got a clue. I come from a family with alcoholism present and I know for a fact that it's a real thing and is a real disease.

profitius

Of course its a disease. Dis - ease. Its a disease of the mind that causes hardship for the person and people around them.


dis·ease   [dih-zeez] Show IPA noun, verb, -eased, -eas·ing.
noun
1.
a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavorable environmental factors; illness; sickness; ailment.
2.
any abnormal condition in a plant that interferes with its vital physiological processes, caused by pathogenic microorganisms, parasites, unfavorable environmental, genetic, or nutritional factors, etc.
3.
any harmful, depraved, or morbid condition, as of the mind or society: His fascination with executions is a disease.
4.
decomposition of a material under special circumstances: tin disease.

tasha200

I could honestly project the demographic of this survey on a ladbrokes receipt, science and youff, a perfect combination x

jugger0

No disease, just weak people who cant control themselves, to call it a disease is an insult to people with real diseases.

Chuck Stone

ItsAWindUp wrote: »

You obviously haven't got a clue. I come from a family with alcoholism present and I know for a fact that it's a real thing and is a real disease.

Alcoholism is a word to describe observable behaviour but it's not an internally observable disease like say leprosy or AIDS or cancer.

We're arguing about what 'disease' means and in essence disease means not-at-ease which covers just about everything which is ever so slightly negatively off-centre spectrum.

woodoo

jugger0 wrote: »

No disease, just weak people who cant control themselves, to call it a disease is an insult to people with real diseases.

Troll alert

Reloc8

Might as well consider smoking a disease.

Its not...its just a drug that some people can't quit even though it kills them.

Chuck Stone

woodoo wrote: »

Troll alert

In fairness I think what he means is that some alcohol abuser's will adopt the 'I have a disease - I can't help myself - it's outside my control' thing.

That's the danger with saying alcohol addicts have a 'disease'.

If I were to punch myself repeatedly in the face could I claim I have 'swollen face disease'?

People would laugh and say - 'just stop punching yourself in the face ya gobshite'.

Richard Hillman

Its a lifestyle choice. The whole disease thing is made up by wishy washy loons that try and portray the alcholic as the victim.

rossie1977

woodoo wrote: »

Troll alert

how exactly is alcoholism a disease? you telling me you would class alcoholism alongside cancer, aids, smallpox, dysentery or hodgkin's??

abuse of alcohol CAUSES diseases but alcoholism is no more a disease than gambling addition, obesity or drug dependance; a lifestyle choice......not a disease