Is Alcoholism a disease?

x in the city

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

I am not so sure. Alcoholism does not fit the diagnostic profile of an actual disease. Personally speaking, I am "addicted" to chocolate. This is a result of my choice. I can stop. People with cancer cannot just "stop" metastasis. Self control is a great thing.

erm, if you are an alco yes.

jugger0

woodoo wrote: »

Troll alert

Some disease isn't it? makes you go to the off license to buy some alcohol and then makes you drink it all, poor little babas...

Anyone who thinks being an alcoholic is a disease should be injected with malaria

J_E

It's not a disease. However, it is not a choice like some people here are saying, as a drug it's more potent than a lot of others out there, and it's played down as 'ah it's just a drink' far too much. Addiction is never something you should poke fun at, unless you have experienced it first-hand or through someone you know, and I can tell you one thing, alcoholism is not a nice thing to go through at all.

Seachmall

Cydoniac wrote: »

It's not a disease. However, it is not a choice like some people here are saying, as a drug it's more potent than a lot of others out there, and it's played down as 'ah it's just a drink' far too much. Addiction is never something you should poke fun at, unless you have experienced it first-hand or through someone you know, and I can tell you one thing, alcoholism is not a nice thing to go through at all.

+1

A lot of people here are quick to comment and criticize others for being in a position most of us are fortunate enough never to be in. Either through arrogance or ignorance, or both, they assume they'll never be in that situation because they are strong minded or have great self control. It's simply not true. Maybe you do have better self-discipline than an addict but until you've been an addict and beaten an addiction your assumptions are simple ego-boosts fueled by a lack of knowledge about the subject.

There are a multitude of factors, physical, psychological and situational, that are being ignored in favour of quick retorts and egotistical nonsense. How often do you suspect an expert on addiction publishes a paper titled "Addiction; weak-minds and booze!!"? I'm guessing it's not very often. If you're so certain that your analysis of the subject is correct why not go ahead and publish that paper, perhaps you'll learn a bit more on the topic when you get raped in the peer-review.

Richard Hillman

Cydoniac wrote: »

It's not a disease. However, it is not a choice like some people here are saying, as a drug it's more potent than a lot of others out there, and it's played down as 'ah it's just a drink' far too much. Addiction is never something you should poke fun at, unless you have experienced it first-hand or through someone you know, and I can tell you one thing, alcoholism is not a nice thing to go through at all.

It is a choice. These people chose to drink, nobody forced them to start drinking. Im a nicotine addict. I chose to smoke nicotine. My addiction to nicotine is no different to an addiction to alcohol or heroin except it doesnt effect my daily life. I havnt been inficted by the deadly Nicotene addiction virus of western amazonia.

TheyKnowMyIP

Seachmall wrote: »

+1

A lot of people here are quick to comment and criticize others for being in a position most of us are fortunate enough never to be in. Either through arrogance or ignorance, or both, they assume they'll never be in that situation because they are strong minded or have great self control. It's simply not true. Maybe you do have better self-discipline than an addict but until you've been an addict and beaten an addiction your assumptions are simple ego-boosts fueled by a lack of knowledge about the subject.

There are a multitude of factors, physical, psychological and situational, that are being ignored in favour of quick retorts and egotistical nonsense. How often do you suspect an expert on addiction publishes a paper titled "Addiction; weak-minds and booze!!"? I'm guessing it's not very often. If you're so certain that your analysis of the subject is correct why not go ahead and publish that paper, perhaps you'll learn a bit more on the topic when you get raped in the peer-review.

I think labelling it a disease is ignoring how big this problem really is. Alcohol is probably one of the most dangerous drugs you can get your hands on, yet it's pushed far and wide. In my mind, alcohol should be a controlled substance almost when you consider the damage it causes to society. But that is another topic for a different time.

I dunno, calling it a disease is almost an excuse for what could be a solved problem given enough review. There are reasons why people in this country turn to alcohol and other drugs for comfort. That needs to be addressed. I get alot of crap for not drinking, but I have educated myself on the dangers. Fine in moderation, deadly when abused.

Seachmall

Richard Hillman wrote: »

It is a choice.

Most of us choose to drink, none of use choose to get addicted.

If it were as simple as that the word "addiction" literally would not exist.

TheyKnowMyIP wrote:

I think labelling it a disease is ignoring how big this problem really is.

I think whether or not labeling it a disease or not is irrelevant in the bigger picture. If doing so helps people get sober, regardless if it's true or not, why not tell them it's a disease?

I think the end justifies the means.

In saying that it could give off the impression that it's something you catch or are born with making some think they're immune to alcohol dependence which of course could cause problems.

TheyKnowMyIP

Like fags, alcohol sales should be moderated and controlled. You would not hand out prescription painkillers in the supermarket, yet alcohol is available everywhere. Society is going to drive itself off a cliff if something isn't done to curtail the massive widespread abuse of this fairly dangerous drug. Mark my words. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-11665560

CrazyRabbit

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

Alcoholism is merely a symptom of stupidity.

celj wrote: »

Unbelievable.

As someone who alcohol nearly killed and who fights it every day I find what you have posted insulting.
I know people from every walk of life who are affected by alcoholism and fight it daily.
You are obviously lucky enough to have never been touched by it.:mad:

stovelid wrote: »

I would love to say what I feel here but you're not worth a ban.

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

The irony :rolleyes:

This is a sensitive subject considering how prevalent the condition is here. Any and all trolling will result in action.

If it can't be discussed maturely, thread will get shut down.

Thanks

Wow...calm down people! This is AH. I was just taking the piss. It is so extremely rare to have a serious discussion in AH, that I didn't know we were having one!!

finnigan

Richard Hillman wrote: »

It is a choice. These people chose to drink, nobody forced them to start drinking. Im a nicotine addict. I chose to smoke nicotine. My addiction to nicotine is no different to an addiction to alcohol or heroin except it doesnt effect my daily life. I havnt been inficted by the deadly Nicotene addiction virus of western amazonia.

at the age of 16 I chose to drink, its a social thing in Ireland, most everyone does it, believe it or not. :rolleyes:
I chose to go to the pub after work on a friday.
I chose to go to the pub with my girlfriend and mates for a pint or 2.
But by the time I was 25 that choice was taken away from me. I no longer had a choice. I NEEDED that drink. I did not choose to lie on the floor of the house that was about to be repossessed from me, surrounded by empty jameson bottles, alone and only going out to get more drink.
I did not choose to wander the roads of Ireland for 12months, drunk, alone, depressed and suicidal.
it may be a choice to start drinking but nobody knows the road that choice may lead them down.
It may be a disease or it may not, who really cares?
the most important thing is to try and educate people that alcohol is not for everybody.
I,m not anti-drink, I do not preach the dangers of it to all and sundry but I am there for advise and a lot of people I know have come to me over the last few years for a chat or to get me to talk to a loved one who made that very same choice many many years previously.

I also chose to smoke but there is a lot more education about the dangers of smoking and not enough about the dangers (to some people) of alcohol.

sorry if this come as a rant, i did not mean it as such

mattjack

rossie1977 wrote: »

how exactly is alcoholism a disease? you telling me you would class alcoholism alongside cancer, aids, smallpox, dysentery or hodgkin's??

abuse of alcohol CAUSES diseases but alcoholism is no more a disease than gambling addition, obesity or drug dependance; a lifestyle choice......not a disease

Both Aids and some forms of cancer are caused by peoples behaviour,so you could say,by your reckoning neither of these should be classed as diseases.
Some modern disease models of addiction class habitual drug/alcohol abuse as a disease.

Sunnyisland

A long-standing debate has roiled over whether addicts have a choice over their behaviors, said Dr. Raju Hajela, former president of the Canadian Society of Addiction Medicine and chair of the ASAM committee on addiction's new definition.
"The disease creates distortions in thinking, feelings and perceptions, which drive people to behave in ways that are not understandable to others around them," Hajela said in a statement. "Simply put, addiction is not a choice. Addictive behaviors are a manifestation of the disease, not a cause."
Even so, Hajela pointed out, choice does play a role in getting help.
"Because there is no pill which alone can cure addiction, choosing recovery over unhealthy behaviors is necessary," Hajela said.
This "choosing recovery" is akin to people with heart disease who may not choose the underlying genetic causes of their heart problems but do need to choose to eat healthier or begin exercising, in addition to medical or surgical interventions, the researchers said. Aug 2011

Sunnyisland

realies wrote: »

In a 1992 JAMA article, the Joint Committee of the National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence, Inc. (NCADD) and the American Society of Addiction Medicine (ASAM) published this definition for alcoholism:

“Alcoholism is a primary chronic disease with genetic, psychosocial and environmental factors influencing its development and manifestations. The disease is often progressive and fatal. It is characterized by impaired control over drinking, preoccupation with the drug alcohol, use of alcohol despite adverse consequences, and distortions in thinking, mostly denial. Each of these symptoms may be continuous or periodic.”

rossie1977 wrote: »

how exactly is alcoholism a disease? you telling me you would class alcoholism alongside cancer, aids, smallpox, dysentery or hodgkin's??

abuse of alcohol CAUSES diseases but alcoholism is no more a disease than gambling addition, obesity or drug dependance; a lifestyle choice......not a disease

See above post.

Show Time

No it is not.

But it is a drug like fags, Weed, Coke and heroin.

This bullcrap calling it a disease is just a cop out.

Sunnyisland

jugger0 wrote: »

No disease, just weak people who cant control themselves, to call it a disease is an insult to people with real diseases.

I am far from being a weak person,and you insult me with your flippant attitude to something you obviously no nothing about.

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Alcoholism is a word to describe observable behaviour but it's not an internally observable disease like say leprosy or AIDS or cancer.

You ever see the damage alcohol does to a persons liver,pancreas brain,stomach its very observable.

Chuck Stone wrote: »

In fairness I think what he means is that some alcohol abuser's will adopt the 'I have a disease - I can't help myself - it's outside my control' thing.

That's the danger with saying alcohol addicts have a 'disease'.

If I were to punch myself repeatedly in the face could I claim I have 'swollen face disease'?

People would laugh and say - 'just stop punching yourself in the face ya gobshite'.

There is a big difference between a person who abuses alcohol and an alcoholic,The former will eventually end up with the disease of alcoholism as its a progressive disease

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Its a lifestyle choice. The whole disease thing is made up by wishy washy loons that try and portray the alcoholic as the victim.

The facts are there why dont you read them, wishy washy my arse.

Sunnyisland

Show Time wrote: »

No it is not.

But it is a drug like fags, Weed, Coke and heroin.

This bullcrap calling it a disease is just a cop out.

Who is it a cop out for and why ? Do you think people like going around saying they have a disease, I honestly think people here are getting mixed up with people who are drunk or are in the pubs every night and are abusing alcohol than with people who have alcoholism.denial is also a huge factor in fighting alcoholism its everywhere.

Sunnyisland

ok i am of to the pub cheers





















joking:D;)

Micky Dolenz

A few infractions given out

It's fine to disagree, it's how it's done, that is key to a ban/infract free life.

Thanks.

Long Term Louth

Richard Hillman wrote: »

It is a choice. These people chose to drink, nobody forced them to start drinking. Im a nicotine addict. I chose to smoke nicotine. My addiction to nicotine is no different to an addiction to alcohol or heroin except it doesnt effect my daily life. I havnt been inficted by the deadly Nicotene addiction virus of western amazonia.

Give it time.

rossie1977

realies wrote: »

You ever see the damage alcohol does to a persons liver,pancreas brain,stomach its very observable.

doesn't make it a disease, causes diseases but alcohol is no more a disease than the sun which too causes a myriad of diseases if you sat out in it all day every day or playing video games 24/7 without a break

addiction <> disease, if you classify any addiction as a disease where do you stop, sex addicts have a disease, addiction to chocolate/food/gambling/bodybuilding, yep disease

yes we know alcoholics anonymous classify it as a disease so no need to continue posting stuff from them, oh the evils of alchohol, you must find god :rolleyes:

4leto

I probably am an alcoholic by most standards but one who is in control.

I think some are susceptible to by by either nature or nurture, they should be careful with it, as it is a disease for them because of the make up of their brains.

But for the merry band of the rest of us, I think we just get pissed because we like it, we don't have to.

Seachmall

4leto wrote: »

I probably am an alcoholic by most standards but one who is in control.

Then by definition you're not an alcoholic.

An alcoholic is someone who has a compulsion to drink. It's not defined by how many drinks you have it's defined by your dependency on drink (physical or psychological).

mattjack

rossie1977 wrote: »

doesn't make it a disease, causes diseases but alcohol is no more a disease than the sun which too causes a myriad of diseases if you sat out in it all day every day or playing video games 24/7 without a break

addiction <> disease, if you classify any addiction as a disease where do you stop, sex addicts have a disease, addiction to chocolate/food/gambling/bodybuilding, yep disease

yes we know alcoholics anonymous classify it as a disease so no need to continue posting stuff from them, oh the evils of alchohol, you must find god :rolleyes:

I think addiction is classed as a disease in the sense that there is damage caused to the CNS .With alcohol the issue is with a chemical called GABA .A lot of addictions work around the release or control of chemicals that cause pleasure,i.e. dopamine,serotonim.
Some addictions even mimic the effect of desired chemicals.....
That's when people start to call it a disease.
Certainly some people are predisposed to addiction issues through a genetic make up,there's even a suggestion that some individuals bio chemical make up
puts them at risk because of their early years as children...i.e. a child from a loving,stable envoironment will have a body that can naturally produce and control its pleasure chemicals whereas the opposite may occur in a child from an unstable background.
As for AA I dont know anything about it..other than that it provide support etc...I've a friend who swears by it been going the last 30 years,I've a family member who said it was complete ****e and died six months after going once from alcohol withdrawal .

4leto

Seachmall wrote: »

Then by definition you're not an alcoholic.

An alcoholic is someone who has a compulsion to drink. It's not defined by how many drinks you have it's defined by your dependency on drink (physical or psychological).

LOL
I laughed at that, yes you are right, I can take and leave it and I wont when I can't.

By my definition everyone in Ireland is an alco. When I lived abroad I initially was surprised by other countries attitude to drink, it was different, those sickos could actually go out and not drink:eek:.

Seanchai

Seachmall wrote: »

Then by definition you're not an alcoholic.

An alcoholic is someone who has a compulsion to drink. It's not defined by how many drinks you have it's defined by your dependency on drink (physical or psychological).

Interesting. But given that most people who become alcoholics increase the amount of alcohol they drink as they slip down that path, is there not something very progressive (regressive?) about alcoholism? Does the desire for more alcohol take over the alcoholic's mind and life (as is the case with most addictions)?

Seachmall

Seanchai wrote: »

Does the desire for more alcohol take over the alcoholic's mind and life (as is the case with most addictions)?

Yes, but it's a desire dictated by dependency, not choice as some seem to think.

People think that people are very black in white in there decision making, it's not true. I know it's not true because there's an entire field of science that tries to understand what and why people do the things they do. It's never as simple as "it's a choice", we don't live in vacuums.

Even outside of the social sciences you have to realize something: You are your brain. And by that I mean the chemical responses, or requirements, of your brain dictate your actions through an abstract layer, i.e. your mind.

If your brain requires a chemical that it can no longer produce, such as in the case of heroin, it will result in your mind craving the drug. If you can't get access to the drug you can, and people do, die.

To say addiction is simply a choice is to willfully ignore the works of thousands of scientists on the matter in favour of a simple answer or belief of superiority.

TheyKnowMyIP

Seachmall wrote: »

matter in favour of a simple answer or belief of superiority.

Actually, the original question is simple: Is alcoholism a disease? I never said it's not a serious problem. Alcohol is one of the worst drugs you can put your hands on.

Granted, my self control comment does have an air of superiority, but then again, I have seen first hand what drink can do to people and for that reason, I choose not to drink the stuff too often. The empty promises are the worst.

My lack of trust stems from all the empty promises I believe. Standing up for your actions and admitting failure is a trait not seen in most.

I admire anyone who has overcome alcoholism without clinging to the "disease" excuse. People with Cystic Fibrosis do not have a choice for instance.

Seachmall

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

Actually, the origninal question is simple: Is alcoholism a disease? I never said it's not a serious problem. Alcohol is one of the worst drugs you can put your hands on.

My comment wasn't directed at anyone in particular but there are a fair number of posts here that over simplify the matter.

Personally I think whether or not it's a disease is pretty much an issue of semantics (how are we defining disease and addiction? There's more than one definition of both).

TheyKnowMyIP

Seachmall wrote: »

My comment wasn't directed at anyone in particular but there are a fair number of posts here that over simplify the matter.

Personally I think whether or not it's a disease is pretty much an issue of semantics (how are we defining disease and addiction? There's more than one definition of both).

Grand. So to summarise, from a technical point of view, Alcoholism is not a disease. Case closed until sufficient evidence exists to suggest otherwise. I hate misinformation. Medical staff should not proclaim Alcoholism is a disease without a sufficient basis for that claim.

Your past will only define you if you let it. Alcoholism can be overcome with enough effort.

Seachmall

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

Grand. So to summarise, from a technical point of view, Alcoholism is not a disease. Case closed until sufficient evidence exists to suggest otherwise. I hate misinformation. Medical staff should not proclaim Alcoholism is a disease without a sufficient basis for that claim.

Your past will only define you if you let it. Alcoholism can be overcome with enough effort.

I agree in a medical sense it's not (and thus it's not a disease in any other sense), but I think referring to it as so is fully justifiable when treating addicts if it helps them beat their addiction (but that's a different discussion).