Is Alcoholism a disease?

iguana

Seachmall wrote: »

Personally I think whether or not it's a disease is pretty much an issue of semantics (how are we defining disease and addiction? There's more than one definition of both).

I voted no on the poll because as I wrote in my original post on this thread, "alcoholism is not a disease as most people understand the word." Despite the fact that under the full definition of the word disease, it is. To me, and I suspect quite a few of the other no voters, the big problem is that the way vast swathes of the addiction recovery industry are defining disease.

They maintain that it's a genetic problem which means that alcoholics are predestined to their addiction from the first moment a drop of alcohol is drunk. That it somehow interacts with their insides like a type of f'd up allergy. Making them desire more and more in such a way that removes all their conscious will and mitigates their responsibility for every horrible thing they do while drinking/using. They maintain this with no proof whatsoever, continually jumping on any piece of scientific evidence to back up this claim and clinging to it long after it has been disproved. And the fact is that many do so in order to excuse the awful things they have done and to allow them to continue on drinking/using as it's not their fault, just their genetic make-up.

A lot of people on this thread have said that anyone saying "no" must have no real experience of dealing with an alcoholic and I'd counter that by guessing that many people say "no" precisely because they have that experience and have watched their alcoholic loved one repeatedly excuse their terrible behaviours because they have a disease, such as the poster; whatdoicare.

And the thing is all the most up to date science tells us it's a bit of both. Nobody is predestined to be an alcoholic, even if some are more susceptible. We all have the ability to put the brakes on dangerous alcohol usage if we recognise the dangers early on and choose to heed them. But once it gets to a certain point that alcohol abuse becomes brain damage which is very, very hard to control. However there are treatments that work very, very well and most alcoholics do recover with the right help. Unfortunately telling people that they are powerless is just about the least helpful thing you can do, along with telling their loved ones to leave them to their own devices as they too are powerless to help. And that unfortunately is the model which most of the addiction recovery industry still uses.

Hopefully the resounding success shown by early trials of GABA(b) agonists will be replicated in the major studies which are currently under way and that along with the growth of CBT based addiction therapies will change the way alcoholism is treated for good and within the next few decades it will become a minor ailment which people recover from quickly.

Kirby

Malaria, Cholera, Tuberculosis...... These are diseases.

You can't will your body to cure Malaria. It's biology and out of your control.

Alcoholism is not a disease. Its an addiction. A person has control over an addiction and chooses whether to indulge it or not. It can be hard, and some people are more prone or susceptible to addiction. Thats true. But with enough will power and support, anyone can get over an addiction. All the motivational speaking wont cure a person of TB. Medicine will.

Any idiot who calls Alcoholism a disease needs to be brought into a hospital and made have a conversation with somebody dying of an incurable disease. If dying people could will away the sickness they would. They can't. Alchies and druggies can. They just make excuses to make themselves feel better.

The AA mantra that its a disease and you have no control over it is wrong and people need to stop perpetuating it.

Show Time

realies wrote: »

Who is it a cop out for and why ? Do you think people like going around saying they have a disease, I honestly think people here are getting mixed up with people who are drunk or are in the pubs every night and are abusing alcohol than with people who have alcoholism.denial is also a huge factor in fighting alcoholism its everywhere.

I am an alcoholic myself and would have a much better idea then most on how you combat this form of drug abuse and the denial card is played by every second person who has a drink problem i played it myself more then once. Tough love and self discipline are the tools i use in my battle with the bottle.

Thankfully it is a battle i have had the upper hand in the last five years since i last drank.

woodoo

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

I admire anyone who has overcome alcoholism without clinging to the "disease" excuse. People with Cystic Fibrosis do not have a choice for instance.

I don't know anyone who clings to the disease as you say. Its no different form them saying they have an addiction and that is why they drink.

Why can't you stop drinking Jack?
Because i have a disease
Because i have an addiction

Its the same thing really, either excuse could be used if they don't want to address their alcohol problem.

Dudess

I think it is, yes, but not in the same sense as e.g. leukaemia is a disease. But it is a form of disease, along with being other things. Disease isn't the only way it's defined, IMO.

TheyKnowMyIP

Dudess wrote: »

I think it is, yes, but not in the same sense as e.g. leukaemia is a disease. But it is a form of disease, along with being other things. Disease isn't the only way it's defined, IMO.

Something either is or it isn't a disease. Like death, there is no middle ground.

TheyKnowMyIP

woodoo wrote: »

I don't know anyone who clings to the disease as you say. Its no different form them saying they have an addiction and that is why they drink.

Why can't you stop drinking Jack?
Because i have a disease
Because i have an addiction

Its the same thing really, either excuse could be used if they don't want to address their alcohol problem.

This isn't the question I asked. The thread has nothing really to do with addressing problems with alcoholism, merely begging the question: Is alcoholism a disease?

The media and certain "medical professionals" say so, but that does not make it true.

Dudess

In my opinion it's a form of a disease - it requires treatment and management, and can be a by-product of mental illness such as depression. But that's not the only thing it is either: it's an addiction, and there is a degree of choice involved.

woodoo

Kirby wrote: »

Malaria, Cholera, Tuberculosis...... These are diseases.

You can't will your body to cure Malaria. It's biology and out of your control. t.

You can't will your body to cure alcoholism either. You can abstain. But you will always be an alcoholic. You will always have the addiction. You will always withdraw from alcohol as you did before you had to stop. Physically and mentally you are an alcoholic.

BTW i don't use the disease term. I call it an addiction. But i don't rule out the disease theory either.

TheyKnowMyIP

There is no proof for the disease theory of addiction. Neither is there any proof that masturbation causes blindness. Don't let some quack head doctor convince you otherwise!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekDFv7TTZ4I

iguana

woodoo wrote: »

You can't will your body to cure alcoholism either. You can abstain. But you will always be an alcoholic. You will always have the addiction. You will always withdraw from alcohol as you did before you had to stop. Physically and mentally you are an alcoholic.

No you won't. Up to date neurological studies show that the areas of the brain where the addiction occurs repairs itself completely when given enough time. Anything from 3 - 15 years. The brain of an alcoholic who has been sober for 20 years looks no different from that of a regular non-drinker or low-moderate drinker.

(Treatment with the correct dosage of a GABA(b) agonist also appear to instigate this repair in a very short period of time but it's still much too early to know for sure if the repair is simulated or completed due to the medication and how the brain will react when the medication is tapered off.)

Dudess

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

There is no proof for the disease theory of addiction. Neither is there any proof that masturbation causes blindness. Don't let some quack head doctor convince you otherwise!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekDFv7TTZ4I

That doesn't stop people being of the opinion that it is a form of disease. As I said, it requires treatment and management, two things it has in common with a disease.
I know it's not a disease in the same sense as cancer, pneumonia, but it is still a different type of disease, in my opinion.
It has genetic factors also - something else it has in common with certain diseases.

rossie1977

Dudess wrote: »

That doesn't stop people being of the opinion that it is a form of disease. As I said, it requires treatment and management, two things it has in common with a disease.

lots of stuff needs treatment and management....is old age a disease??

if one addiction is a disease then they all are imo

Sunnyisland

rossie1977 wrote: »

doesn't make it a disease, causes diseases but alcohol is no more a disease than the sun which too causes a myriad of diseases if you sat out in it all day every day or playing video games 24/7 without a break

addiction <> disease, if you classify any addiction as a disease where do you stop, sex addicts have a disease, addiction to chocolate/food/gambling/bodybuilding, yep disease

yes we know alcoholics anonymous classify it as a disease so no need to continue posting stuff from them, oh the evils of alcohol, you must find god :rolleyes:

Whats with the roll eyes and i never said nothing about God or AA you did.

And if you bothered reading the posts i have wrote You would have seen that there many medical organisations in the world now classing Alcoholism as a disease so keep your sacarstic comments for your self.

woodoo

rossie1977 wrote: »

if one addiction is a disease then they all are imo

Why?

Sunnyisland

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

There is no proof for the disease theory of addiction. Neither is there any proof that masturbation causes blindness. Don't let some quack head doctor convince you otherwise!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekDFv7TTZ4I

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44147493/ns/health-addictions/t/addiction-now-defined-brain-disorder-not-behavior-issue/#.TkmaZs0ma8F

Read that and for the know all everythings out there its certainaly not from an AA site.

And FYI i dont or never have done AA.

Sunnyisland

http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=6644390 A cure for alcoholism ?


http://www.urbanfool.us/MWO/newdrug.pdf



http://www.urbanfool.us/MWO/addolorato.pdf


http://alcalc.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/40/2/147.pdf

This is where the newest and most up to date studies on alcoholism is at, Its a drug called baclofen and at the moment is being tested in several countries
and all started by this man http://www.olivierameisen.com/en/ in all cases it is described as a disease.

mattjack

Kirby wrote: »

Malaria, Cholera, Tuberculosis...... These are diseases.

You can't will your body to cure Malaria. It's biology and out of your control.

Alcoholism is not a disease. Its an addiction. A person has control over an addiction and chooses whether to indulge it or not. It can be hard, and some people are more prone or susceptible to addiction. Thats true. But with enough will power and support, anyone can get over an addiction. All the motivational speaking wont cure a person of TB. Medicine will.

Any idiot who calls Alcoholism a disease needs to be brought into a hospital and made have a conversation with somebody dying of an incurable disease. If dying people could will away the sickness they would. They can't. Alchies and druggies can. They just make excuses to make themselves feel better.

The AA mantra that its a disease and you have no control over it is wrong and people need to stop perpetuating it.

Dont call people idiots,there's been some very informed opinions been put forward arguing both sides.You are just insulting people.

Reloc8

I have huge sympathy for anyone who is in the grip of addiction, whether its smokes, alcohol, heroin, porn, whateer.

Is there any real basis to distinguish between those four things ? Is heroin addiction a disease ?

Addiction counsellors would be quick to describe the dangers of telling an addict their addiction is a disease.

Sunnyisland

The current mainstream scientific and medical view is that alcoholism is a disease, although some debate on this topic still occurs.
In 2004, the World Health Organisation published a detailed report on alcohol and other psychoactive substances entitled "Neuroscience of psychoactive substance use and dependence". It stated that this was the "first attempt by WHO to provide a comprehensive overview of the biological factors related to substance use and dependence by summarizing the vast amount of knowledge gained in the last 20-30 years. The report highlights the current state of knowledge of the mechanisms of action of different types of psychoactive substances, and explains how the use of these substances can lead to the development of dependence syndrome." The report states that "dependence has not previously been recognized as a disorder of the brain, in the same way that psychiatric and mental illnesses were not previously viewed as being a result of a disorder of the brain. However, with recent advances in neuroscience, it is clear that dependence is as much a disorder of the brain as any other neurological or psychiatric illness."


Also In a genetic study of unprecendented scope, researchers have used new genomic technology to indentify human genes in people most at risk for developing alcoholism, which could revolutionize treatment and prevention options.Because someone has a genetic tendency to develop a disease, it does not guarantee they will have the disease, only that they are at higher risk for doing so than the average person.

kowloon

Little Acorn wrote: »

You can "just stop" eating chocolate. Good for you. Some people can't "just stop" abusing alcohol, without receiving some help first.

Type 1 diabetic. When my blood glucose levels are too low I'd cut you like a fish to get your chocolate.

Wattle

I quit 8 years ago. My drinking was definitely becoming frightening. I was very self destructive and I harmed a lot of people around me. I hit rock bottom when I was told to leave a group holiday because I stole a bottle of whiskey from a B&B. It wasn't the worst thing I did while drinking but there was something about the shame I felt. I really don't believe that anyone enjoys being a full blown alcoholic. It is a horrible affliction to have.

Long Term Louth

I dont think alcoholism is a disease, but rather an addiction which one becomes more susceptible to with continued indulgence. Once a person recognises that they have a problem and are the problem, then the ultimate choice to cease or continue becomes thier own. It is then down to will power, a change of lifestyle, if AA helps go for it, if God beats the hangover go for it and whatever works best for you, go for it. Alcoholisim can be conquered by the individual most diseases cannot.

Chuck Stone

realies wrote: »

The current mainstream scientific and medical view is that alcoholism is a disease, although some debate on this topic still occurs.

As I said before it's a bit like claiming you have 'swollen face disease' because you keep punching yourself in the head.

Gator

more of not being able to control your urge me thinks

iguana

realies wrote: »

This is where the newest and most up to date studies on alcoholism is at, Its a drug called baclofen and at the moment is being tested in several countries
and all started by this man http://www.olivierameisen.com/en/ in all cases it is described as a disease.

Did you take baclofen realies? Or do you know anyone who did? The NHS in Scotland published a report on a study they conducted recently and their findings were very favourable. I'll admit I've seen it in action and it has completely wowed me. The side-effects can be tough going though as the administration protocol is still going through trial and error and the doses needed to make the "switch" can be very high.

Sunnyisland

iguana wrote: »

Did you take baclofen realise? Or do you know anyone who did? The NHS in Scotland published a report on a study they conducted recently and their findings were very favourable. I'll admit I've seen it in action and it has completely wowed me. The side-effects can be tough going though as the administration protocol is still going through trial and error and the doses needed to make the "switch" can be very high.

No iguana i never took any sort of meds, I was lucky in the sense that i used all sort of recovery tools and bits from all parts worked totally for me, I do know lots of people who have taken it but as you said the SE are a concern,hopefully the results from the trials in holland will be out soon,and your quite right about the HDB are common,most docs in the uk & Ireland wont prescribe it but you can get it online.Ps I do know of a friend who is 2 years alcohol free from bac and he swears by it.

iguana

realies wrote: »

No iguana i never took any sort of meds, I was lucky in the sense that i used all sort of recovery tools and bits from all parts worked totally for me, I do know lots of people who have taken it but as you said the SE are a concern,hopefully the results from the trials in holland will be out soon,and your quite right about the HDB are common,most docs in the uk & Ireland wont prescribe it but you can get it online.Ps I do know of a friend who is 2 years alchol free from bac and he swears by it.

I had been hoping to broach the possibility of baclofen for a relative of mine but unfortunately he died before I was confident enough to talk to him about it. But I have been closely involved in some other people's experience with it and I have great hopes for the future of treatment with it. Though I hope it's eventually part of a more holistic approach which utilises CBT, diet, exercise and certain supplements, rather than just use of medication.

For example, recent neurological studies have shown that regular yoga practice increases the activity of the GABA receptors by up to 27%. If further, more specific, testing shows that the GABA(b) receptors are effected then that means that yoga can have a very similar effect as baclofen and can be used in conjunction with it, so a lower dose might be more effective, mitigating the side effects.

Sunnyisland

iguana wrote: »

I had been hoping to broach the possibility of baclofen for a relative of mine but unfortunately he died before I was confident enough to talk to him about it. But I have been closely involved in some other people's experience with it and I have great hopes for the future of treatment with it. Though I hope it's eventually part of a more holistic approach which utilises CBT, diet, exercise and certain supplements, rather than just use of medication.

For example, recent neurological studies have shown that regular yoga practice increases the activity of the GABA receptors by up to 27%. If further, more specific, testing shows that the GABA(b) receptors are effected then that means that yoga can have a very similar effect as baclofen and can be used in conjunction with it, so a lower dose might be more effective, mitigating the side effects.

IMO bac is only another(great) tool to beat this disease/addiction/whatever and you must learn a whole new way of living to stay sober and i agree 100% with the above.
I have never heard of the yoga effect could you post me a link please as i know people who would be very intrested in it.thanks.

iguana

realies wrote: »

I have never heard of the yoga effect could you post me a link please as i know people who would be very intrested in it.thanks.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17532734

The same group also did a slightly larger study with similar results. http://evolutionarypsychiatry.blogspot.com/2010/08/yoga-ba-gaba.html