A week of nearly getting milled out of it (MOD WARNING #127)

BostonB · 07-10-2011 4:39pm

Raam wrote: »

Now you get it!

Treat others as you want to be treated.

Raam · 07-10-2011 4:40pm

BostonB wrote: »

Treat others as you want to be treated.

Something like that. Anyway, I'm off to not video my close encounters with motorists.

BostonB · 07-10-2011 4:45pm

Same here. I look forward to not watching them.

blorg · 07-10-2011 5:05pm

SerialComplaint wrote: »

The reaction does indeed give me pause for thought. I may have been wrong on the pedestrian right-of-way thing, but as I said, I want to go digging a bit more on the legislation before I come back to that.

I think this is at the heart of your problem. You shouldn't need to find a piece of legislation telling you not to buzz pedestrians. You should refrain from buzzing pedestrians because refraining is the right thing to do. Only ássholes deliberately buzz pedestrians.

I'd love to see someone like you try to cycle somewhere like India, you wouldn't last 30 seconds. You need to relax, let go of this "my legal rights" mindset, try to anticipate and accommodate the stupid things other road users do, and not get worked up about them. I think you would then find cycling a far safer and more enjoyable experience with far less "incidents."

I say this as a reformed car-slapping motorist-educator myself, so I do understand where you are coming from. When I changed my approach a few years back in line with what I describe my regular "incidents" with motorists almost entirely evaporated.

You can't change motorists' behaviour. You can change your own.

SerialComplaint · 07-10-2011 8:30pm

BostonB wrote: »

Even your own comments admit you didn't slow at all and were tight to the corsa. Absolutely no space between you. Yet you complain about drivers not giving you room.

Have you heard of many accidents caused by cyclists being too close to the rear bumpers of moving cars? I was 'tight to the Corsa' for a nanosecond. Given the Corsa's speed and my speed, it was gone in the distance before the driver had a chance to see me in their rear mirror.

LLU wrote: »

Indeed, although I can safely say you currently have a substantial lead in the word count.

Hey, if you want to start judging by word count, let's look beyond this thread. Let's have a look at those that seem to spend substantial parts of their lives posting here in the Cycling forum or other boards forums (fora?).

LLU wrote: »

But a rather shadowy reticent star, considering you tend to quote registration numbers and include them in the youtube titles. Perhaps to level the playing field you'd consider publishing your own number or showing your own face. Or indeed conceal the numbers and only show the punters from the elbows down.

It's all down to the camera angle. It's kinda hard to get the best side of my profile from the top of my skull.

CramCycle wrote: »

This is an instance of no legislation required but I presume there is, you could see what was happening and you didn't stop, fair enough you avoided him but if he hadn't paused when you called then you could have caused him harm.

There was no chance of me causing him harm no matter what he did or didn’t do. I had slowed. I had my hands on the brakes. I had several escape routes. There wasn’t going to be a crash, as much for my safety as for his.

CramCycle wrote: »

You can use calm language in an aggresive manner. Your statement asking for the girl to look for her video on youtube comes accross to most people as aggressive. Just because you did not curse does not means it was not aggressive. If you really felt the need to point out her mistakes as you see them you could have easily said something along the lines of

"Sorry to annoy you but I'm just asking you to be a bit more cautious pulling out of your drive way, no harm no foul today but someone else coming along might not slow down like I did"

Not (and I am paraphrasing) "I sh1t my pants because you didn't look where you were going" in a not loud but IMO aggresive tone.

I think you’re struggling to understand the difference between aggressive and assertive. My tone was casual and relaxed, with a little bit of toilet humour thrown in. She wound up her window, hence the raised volume when I was trying to tell her about Youtube. Maybe I should have given her a ticket, like this guy does; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNZVj29jDOA about 3.29 into the vid.

CramCycle wrote: »

While sometimes in the right, I have seen MagnaTom give out about people and how close they are when they are clearly not. He has posted on here and seems like a nice guy but I think that there are one or two occasions were the claim is exaggerated, rather than factual.

To answer the original question about how close Army Girl was, she was certainly within arm’s length on both overtakes.

CramCycle wrote: »

I can't find the video on your page at the minute (if you could PM me a link rather that reposting it) but from my memory you were still moving and in fact never stopped, IMO you do not know what other drivers may suddenly do and while it is counter productive to account for every possibility this appeared to me to be a case of stopping or yielding would have taken any theoretical risk out of the picture.

Indeed, I could take any theoretical risk out of every junction by stopping and yielding. In fact, I could take all risk out by stopping, looking around, getting the names and addresses of all drivers and pedestrians within 50 metres, asking them their route plans, mapping their routes out on Google Maps and choosing the route with least traffic for myself. But there is a reasonable limit to the reasonable steps anyone is going to take. To suggest that stopping or yielding at every junction is a reasonable step is just unreasonable. How many times to I have to say it – there was no-one to yield to, as the Corsa had passed.

CramCycle wrote: »

It shows the driver that there was a mistake but it doesn't force them into a confrontation where they will go on the defensive immediately, hopefully they will realise their error and remember it and be thankful you shouted the warning at them but were not so put out you had to confront them. Whereas confronting them may change their defensive attitudes to overwrite the truth in their head and they will have learned nothing.

Well, that’s certainly one theory of human behaviour on the roads. I happen to with a different theory about how to effect change. It’s probably fairly impossible to prove or disprove either theory, so we’re both just going to have to go with our gut feelings.

BostonB wrote: »

Its doesn't have to be the SAME thing. Its a different thing, but its still dangerous to tailgate and very distracting for a driver.Even if a driver isn't likely to get injured he doesn't want cyclist anywhere near them, especially not head first through the rear window. Ditto a cyclist (or any vehicle) approaching a main road that doesn't look like its going to stop.

You seem to be clutching at straws for things to complain about. There was no tailgaiting. The Corsa was gone at speed before I even saw her gait, let alone had a chance to tail it.

BostonB wrote: »

Well its double stands, its ok for the cyclist to go tight to a vehicle, but not the other way around.

This isn’t an equality issue. Bikes aren’t cars. Cars aren’t bikes. That’s why there are different rules for both.

blorg wrote: »

I think this is at the heart of your problem.

I don’t have a problem. You may have a problem with my cycling or my videoing. That’s your problem, not mine.

blorg wrote: »

You shouldn't need to find a piece of legislation telling you not to buzz pedestrians. You should refrain from buzzing pedestrians because refraining is the right thing to do. Only ássholes deliberately buzz pedestrians.

The legislation issue is a bit of a red herring, though I do intend to look into it further. I don’t buzz pedestrians. If someone is stepping onto the road without looking around, I want them to know where I am. I’ll do what it takes to make sure that they see me.

blorg wrote: »

I'd love to see someone like you try to cycle somewhere like India, you wouldn't last 30 seconds. You need to relax, let go of this "my legal rights" mindset, try to anticipate and accommodate the stupid things other road users do, and not get worked up about them. I think you would then find cycling a far safer and more enjoyable experience with far less "incidents."

I don’t know much about India, but I’ll be a fiver that I’d last more than 30 seconds. While this may come as a surprise, I am capable of adapting my style as and when required. I do anticipate the stupid things that other road users do. When there is a chance to educate them, I’ll do this. More often than not, there is no chance to engage usefully with them. I really don’t get worked up about this stuff, and I enjoy my cycling hugely. I really wouldn’t go cycling up Three Rock Mountain a couple of mornings a week if it wasn’t something I enjoyed.

blorg wrote: »

I say this as a reformed car-slapping motorist-educator myself, so I do understand where you are coming from. When I changed my approach a few years back in line with what I describe my regular "incidents" with motorists almost entirely evaporated.

Glad to hear it worked out for you.

blorg wrote: »

You can't change motorists' behaviour.

Quitter. "All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent."

Lumen · 07-10-2011 8:54pm

SerialComplaint wrote: »

All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.

Since you're obviously a fan of Jefferson...

"Nothing gives one person so much advantage over another as to remain always cool and unruffled under all circumstances."

"Walking is the best possible exercise. Habituate yourself to walk very far."

I suggest you pick one or the other. :pac:

CramCycle · 07-10-2011 9:20pm

SerialComplaint wrote: »

Have you heard of many accidents caused by cyclists being too close to the rear bumpers of moving cars? I was 'tight to the Corsa' for a nanosecond. Given the Corsa's speed and my speed, it was gone in the distance before the driver had a chance to see me in their rear mirror.

Cars have brakes, generally very effective ones, I have seen two accidents with bikes being too close to car bumpers outside my workplace (admittedly a high number of cyclists) but that doesn't change the facts that being to close is dangerous. The two bikes were taking part in maneuvers similar to the one you described.

forums/fora

either are acceptable

There was no chance of me causing him harm no matter what he did or didn’t do. I had slowed. I had my hands on the brakes. I had several escape routes. There wasn’t going to be a crash, as much for my safety as for his.

not having a go, but NO, you can't know that, if he freaked he could have jumped forward/back/stood still/fell over. You do not know, I do not know, even he did not know. In future I would recommend not chancing it but that's your choice, not his.

I think you’re struggling to understand the difference between aggressive and assertive.

I am not saying you are either, I am telling you that is how you appear to an outsider and therefore, presumably the car. I believe after your posts that you are trying to be assertive but it does not change the fact that it comes across as aggressive.

Maybe I should have given her a ticket, like this guy does; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNZVj29jDOA about 3.29 into the vid.

I agree with that guy, his tone (maybe its just the dub accent I have issue with, my OH has one :pac:) is nice the whole way through but I found it weird that he had to go over and start talking like a public speaker and talk to everyone at the cafe buty I presume that was due to the shock

To answer the original question about how close Army Girl was, she was certainly within arm’s length on both overtakes.

So are several people who overtake in Dublin but I have monkey arms. There are several things that make a difference, road position being one, I have found I am, in rush hour traffic, given as much space as I leave between me and the footpad :P but this a personal experience.

Indeed, I could take any theoretical risk out of every junction by stopping and yielding. In fact, I could take all risk out by stopping, looking around, getting the names and addresses of all drivers and pedestrians within 50 metres, asking them their route plans, mapping their routes out on Google Maps and choosing the route with least traffic for myself. But there is a reasonable limit to the reasonable steps anyone is going to take. To suggest that stopping or yielding at every junction is a reasonable step is just unreasonable. How many times to I have to say it – there was no-one to yield to, as the Corsa had passed.

I am sure you realise this is not what I meant, I think more intelligent men then me refer to it as Calculated Risk, I would have deemed the lack of yielding for the sake of a few seconds not worth the risk, my interpretation of the video is different than yours, that won't change, so theres no point in continuing unless you want to (please PM me the link though).

Well, that’s certainly one theory of human behaviour on the roads. I happen to with a different theory about how to effect change. It’s probably fairly impossible to prove or disprove either theory, so we’re both just going to have to go with our gut feelings.

Fair enough, i have found mine to be at the very least, less stressful, people often describing to me the mistake they made, that they are glad I am OK and that they will be more careful in future. Admittedly they could be full of it but I choose to think better.

You seem to be clutching at straws for things to complain about. There was no tailgaiting. The Corsa was gone at speed before I even saw her gait, let alone had a chance to tail it.

Probably why you should yield IMO :P

That’s why there are different rules for both.

Not that different though since most of the Laws are the same

I don’t have a problem. You may have a problem with my cycling or my videoing. That’s your problem, not mine.

I imagine he is not the only one to have a problem with your cycling.

The legislation issue is a bit of a red herring, though I do intend to look into it further. I don’t buzz pedestrians. If someone is stepping onto the road without looking around, I want them to know where I am. I’ll do what it takes to make sure that they see me.

But you still buzzed him for all intents and purpose. If you wanted to let him know, you could have stopped and let a yelp/call etc.

I really wouldn’t go cycling up Three Rock Mountain a couple of mornings a week if it wasn’t something I enjoyed.

Coming from a nearby place, must stretch out the spin that way, the roads look lovely as does the view from what I hear.

BostonB · 07-10-2011 10:18pm

SerialComplaint wrote: »

...
You seem to be clutching at straws for things to complain about. There was no tailgaiting. The Corsa was gone at speed before I even saw her gait, let alone had a chance to tail it.

You're quoting a comment that wasn't about you.

But thats certainly the pot calling the kettle black. Considering you're cycling into avoidable situations to video and complain about them.

SerialComplaint wrote: »

This isn’t an equality issue. Bikes aren’t cars. Cars aren’t bikes. That’s why there are different rules for both....

Apparently none for you, but loads for all other road users.

But hey it pointless me debating it. You have a mountain of criticism from all corners, and you're ignoring it all.

Good luck and stay safe.

bad2dabone · 07-10-2011 10:46pm

BostonB wrote: »

Good luck and stay safe.

I'd just like to echo this statement.

I know how many awful drivers there are about Dublin city and how disregarded cyclists are. But I think you're cycling yourself into certain trouble situations and overreacting about perceived slights. I think you're doing it with a mind on the footage and with a mind towards "educating" these strangers. I think they will just regard you as a crank. I know where you're coming from, but i'd fear for you that one day you'll come across a bad sort, who'll either knock you down or kick your head in. For what? They're not going to listen to you.

Stay safe out there dude.

monument · 07-10-2011 11:21pm

monument wrote: »

As for 1.5m why do motorists have to give that amount of road when you're cycling right beside them in the most dangerous places like at junctions?

SerialComplaint wrote: »

When I filter past a car on the left, there is pretty much nothing I can do that endangers the driver's safety. When a car passes me without leaving room, it endagers my safety. Isn't it the same for every cyclist in traffic? Do I sacrifice the right to decent passing room anytime I filter through traffic?

Was meaning to respond to this point before now...

Here's you passing a car turning right on the right side within 1.5m:

That's you putting your self closer than 1.5m in one of the most dangerous places possible. You're really looking for trouble by undertaking a turning car when it's at the junction -- if she was quicker off the mark or you were slower, you had a good chance of being hit. Both of her passes were wrong, but your undertake was as bad.

The video of your one reading a magazine is a cracker, hope you reported it.

Also you might want to reset your camera date and time -- if you want to send anything into the gardai, not good to have the wrong date and time. If it's not clear how to do it, try googling it.

SerialComplaint · 08-10-2011 2:00pm

CramCycle wrote: »

Cars have brakes, generally very effective ones, I have seen two accidents with bikes being too close to car bumpers outside my workplace (admittedly a high number of cyclists) but that doesn't change the facts that being to close is dangerous. The two bikes were taking part in maneuvers similar to the one you described.

I have brakes too, funnily enough - generally very effective ones. I'm not sure in what scenario I'd have needed to use them, given that Corsa was doing x 10 my speed and was well out of any kind of reach before I even got round the corner.

CramCycle wrote: »

not having a go, but NO, you can't know that, if he freaked he could have jumped forward/back/stood still/fell over. You do not know, I do not know, even he did not know. In future I would recommend not chancing it but that's your choice, not his.

Yes - I do know that. In a worst case scenario, I know I could have braked and stopped before I got near him, regardless of whether he went jumping in the air or started breakdancing.

CramCycle wrote: »

I am not saying you are either, I am telling you that is how you appear to an outsider and therefore, presumably the car. I believe after your posts that you are trying to be assertive but it does not change the fact that it comes across as aggressive.

That may be how I appear to you, based on what you've seen in the video. It doesn't tell the full picture. You don't see my face and you don't see my body language and you don't see my gestures.

CramCycle wrote: »

So are several people who overtake in Dublin but I have monkey arms. There are several things that make a difference, road position being one, I have found I am, in rush hour traffic, given as much space as I leave between me and the footpad :P but this a personal experience.

But don't you have to worry about car drivers thinking you are a crank or a terrorist when you take up all that space on the road? 'Cos the impressions we give to car drivers is the most important thing about our cycling - right?

CramCycle wrote: »

I am sure you realise this is not what I meant, I think more intelligent men then me refer to it as Calculated Risk, I would have deemed the lack of yielding for the sake of a few seconds not worth the risk, my interpretation of the video is different than yours, that won't change, so theres no point in continuing unless you want to (please PM me the link though).

I'll try it one more time. There was nothing to yield to! The Corsa was gone. I would have been yielding to fresh air.

CramCycle wrote: »

Fair enough, i have found mine to be at the very least, less stressful, people often describing to me the mistake they made, that they are glad I am OK and that they will be more careful in future. Admittedly they could be full of it but I choose to think better.

Jeez, do they add you to their Christmas card list after they write out their full confessions too? I've got the whole gamut of reactions, from threats of violence, to denial, to humour, to debate, to fear and right down to ignoring me. People are different, and react in different ways, and learn in different ways. As I said earlier, it's effectively impossible to measure the effectiveness of either approach, so we're going to have to go with our gut instincts.

BostonB wrote: »

Apparently none for you, but loads for all other road users. But hey it pointless me debating it. You have a mountain of criticism from all corners, and you're ignoring it all.

The reason why I'm ignoring the vast majority of the molehill of criticism is that the vast majority of it is based on, at best, gross exaggerations of my actions and at worst, factually untrue representations of my actions. If people would stick to the facts, I might be more inclined to take their opinions seriously.

It is completely untrue to suggest there are no rules for me. I'm far more legally compliant in my cycling that the vast majority of red-light-jumping or ninja cyclists that I see around me in Dublin. But hey, it seems that I'm the one giving cycling a bad image because I have the balls to speak to drivers about their bad driving once in a while.

BostonB wrote: »

Good luck and stay safe.

bad2dabone wrote: »

I'd just like to echo this statement.

Stay safe out there dude.

Thanks for the good wishes.

bad2dabone wrote: »

I know how many awful drivers there are about Dublin city and how disregarded cyclists are. But I think you're cycling yourself into certain trouble situations and overreacting about perceived slights. I think you're doing it with a mind on the footage and with a mind towards "educating" these strangers. I think they will just regard you as a crank. I know where you're coming from, but i'd fear for you that one day you'll come across a bad sort, who'll either knock you down or kick your head in. For what? They're not going to listen to you.

This is a real issue, and worthy of serious consideration. But do you apply this to the rest of your life? If I barge in front of you in the ATM queue, or take your pint off your table in the pub, or let my dog crap on your front lawn, are you going to keep your head down in the hope that the meek will inherit the earth, or are you going to say something.

monument wrote: »

Was meaning to respond to this point before now...

Here's you passing a car turning right on the right side within 1.5m:

That's you putting your self closer than 1.5m in one of the most dangerous places possible. You're really looking for trouble by undertaking a turning car when it's at the junction -- if she was quicker off the mark or you were slower, you had a good chance of being hit. Both of her passes were wrong, but your undertake was as bad.

Is this a typo? The car is turning LEFT and I filtered through on the LEFT side, where there was plenty of room.

monument wrote: »

The video of your one reading a magazine is a cracker, hope you reported it.

I hadn't planned to report it, as I didn't think the magazine was clear enough in the vid. I generally pick my battles with those I report to TrafficWatch, given the time it takes to give a formal statement. But I'd love to hear views on whether the magazine was clear to most viewers.

monument wrote: »

Also you might want to reset your camera date and time -- if you want to send anything into the gardai, not good to have the wrong date and time. If it's not clear how to do it, try googling it.

Unfortunately, given that it's a real cheapo model, this is a real pain. To reset it each time, I'd have to update a text file with the current date and time each day - and plug in the camera just at that time. It doesn't remember the time at all. It's a good suggestion, but I think I'll just have to live with the limitation.

monument · 08-10-2011 2:48pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4JLBhWgsgU

SerialComplaint wrote: »

Is this a typo? The car is turning LEFT and I filtered through on the LEFT side, where there was plenty of room.

Yes, that's right, I mean left. You should never needlessly go inside a left turning vehicle.

I can't see why you can choose to ignore one of the main rules for cyclists and at the same time demand motorists to give an unrealistic 1.5m overtaking space in urban areas. Given a mix of blind spots and a lack of observation, most people won't even see you if you pull along side them when they are trying to turn left.

You say "there was plenty of room", but I'm sure motorists who pass dangerously close say the same thing. How do you get to impose an unrealistic 1.5m passing distance on others when you're unwilling to take the primary position or otherwise wait behind a turning car? Indeed, what countries have an enforced 1.5m passing distance in urban areas? Don't say France, it's 1m.

Anyway, she had already passed you once dangerously, what did you expect her to do again when you undertook her?

cython · 08-10-2011 3:10pm

SerialComplaint wrote: »

Is this a typo? The car is turning LEFT and I filtered through on the LEFT side, where there was plenty of room.

Actually, on the subject of "filtering" (I still disagree with the use in this instance, as there is not a queue of traffic in this situation, and you are simply overtaking on the inside of a single left turning vehicle, which is just a stupid idea, be the vehicle a truck or a car), are you aware that drivers are meant to keep as far left as they can when turning left when there is a single lane that they may go left, straight or right out of? Had "army girl" been further left and not provided space for you to "filter" as per that procedure would you also have regarded that as poor driving in the same manner as the Volvo brought up earlier? Because it would not be, rather it would be correct road/lane positioning, and it would in fact have prevented you from putting yourself in a position where you could be wronged a second time, which ultimately was all you accomplished, by making her overtake you again.

LLU · 08-10-2011 4:31pm

SerialComplaint wrote: »

This is a real issue, and worthy of serious consideration. But do you apply this to the rest of your life? If I barge in front of you in the ATM queue, or take your pint off your table in the pub, or let my dog crap on your front lawn, are you going to keep your head down in the hope that the meek will inherit the earth, or are you going to say something.

pure nonsense, and you know it. There is a big difference between those scenarios and going out of your way to whinge at somebody just because their car was a few inches inside your rather peculiar comfort zone.

bad2dabone · 08-10-2011 4:54pm

SerialComplaint wrote: »

This is a real issue, and worthy of serious consideration. But do you apply this to the rest of your life? If I barge in front of you in the ATM queue, or take your pint off your table in the pub, or let my dog crap on your front lawn, are you going to keep your head down in the hope that the meek will inherit the earth, or are you going to say something.

If someone were to do those things of course I'd react. I've a rotten temper that I struggle to control. I understand your feelings and your reactions to the drivers who endanger you. Recently a guy pulled out in front of me, much closer than the woman in the Merc on your video. He looked at me, saw I was coming at speed (also on a descent) and still he pulled out to get stuck in traffic. I barely managed to avoid t-boning him. I freaked out, pulled up alongside him and gave myself to the red mist. I don't even remember what I said but I'm sure the words blind and c**t were used and I definitely went on at him for longer than I should. As i continued on my way and calmed down I was acutely embarrassed by my actions. What had I achieved by admonishing the driver? Nothing. He just thought I was a lunatic on a bike. Other drivers around him who probably didn't see how he pulled in front of me would just have seen another mental cyclist shouting at a driver. It does add to the Us and Them mentality that some people have.
Even if I had spoken to him in measured tones as you seem to do, it would have had no effect.
In my opinion it comes down to respect and authority. Someone who uses their car in a bullying manner has no respect for other road users, someone who squeezes cyclists to the left, or pulls out in front of them, they don't give a fiddlers about other road users. They also don't see you, a mere cyclist, as having any valid authority to tell them off. Hence the oft quoted "You don't pay road tax!" (grrrr).
I think someone earlier on said "pick your battles" and I think that's good advice. By all means record the incidents and send them to the garda traffic watch, but speaking to them yourself isn't going to change their minds in my opinion, and is putting yourself in a potential situation where you could come out of it seriously injured.
Some people have a strange relationship with their car and driving and take it very very personally when their driving is criticized. I've seen white van man do insane things. I don't think its beyond the bounds of possibility that a rogue driver would sideswipe you for knocking on their window and telling them that you were putting them on youtube. Stranger things have happened.

CramCycle · 08-10-2011 6:38pm

Yes - I do know that. In a worst case scenario, I know I could have braked and stopped before I got near him, regardless of whether he went jumping in the air or started breakdancing.

I disagree so this is also a pointless argument.

That may be how I appear to you, based on what you've seen in the video. It doesn't tell the full picture. You don't see my face and you don't see my body language and you don't see my gestures.

But I see the people you talk to and their reactions.

'Cos the impressions we give to car drivers is the most important thing about our cycling - right?

My safety is most important too me (coupled with actually getting where I am going), cycling with good road position, IMO, does not annoy most people. Generally people don't consciously notice the difference between you cycling in the gutter or cycling 3 foot out from the footpad, but personally I think alot subconsciously give you more (no proof) as they think if he/she needs that much room on one side then clearly they need it on the other.

I'll try it one more time. There was nothing to yield to! The Corsa was gone. I would have been yielding to fresh air.

Can you please repost the link?

Jeez, do they add you to their Christmas card list after they write out their full confessions too? I've got the whole gamut of reactions, from threats of violence, to denial, to humour, to debate, to fear and right down to ignoring me. People are different, and react in different ways, and learn in different ways. As I said earlier, it's effectively impossible to measure the effectiveness of either approach, so we're going to have to go with our gut instincts.

I get the whole "gamut" of reactions but the reactions have shifted more towards friendly banter or casual but accepted offerings of advice, away from rudeness/threats of getting the sh1t kicked out of me since I learned to control my tone and gestures.
I can recall two of the drivers who I have words with now wave at me on my spin through UCD. with a smile, I'm sure there are one or two who'd like to door me but out of the large number of people, in general it has worked out well.

factually untrue representations of my actions as they were presented in to the best of my knowledge unedited videos. If people would stick to the facts what I say and not what they see, I might be more less inclined to take their opinions seriously ignore them

.
FYP :P

Thanks for the good wishes.

I also wish you well, I hope no one thinks otherwise. I don't disagree with all of your videos (please report that person reading the magazine), there are just one or two that I have singled out as being an overreaction in my eyes but again that is my interpretation, I only have the video to go on.

This is a real issue, and worthy of serious consideration. But do you apply this to the rest of your life? If I barge in front of you in the ATM queue,

I'd call you on it

or take your pint off your table in the pub,

I'd point out that you made a mistake and then if you disagreed I'd probably do something stupid.

or let my dog crap on your front lawn, are you going to keep your head down in the hope that the meek will inherit the earth, or are you going to say something.

I'd call you out but if you ignored me I'd follow you home with my dog, a letter and a pair of latex gloves. I would post the letter explaining why I am doing what I am doing, and then smear dog **** all over your door handles, windows and bike.

Is this a typo? The car is turning LEFT and I filtered through on the LEFT side, where there was plenty of room.

You see why people have a point to make with this though?

I hadn't planned to report it, as I didn't think the magazine was clear enough in the vid. I generally pick my battles with those I report to TrafficWatch, given the time it takes to give a formal statement. But I'd love to hear views on whether the magazine was clear to most viewers.

I could see it but you are possibly right in it being a stupid lawyer arguing it was something else, worth reporting nonetheless.

galwaycyclist · 08-10-2011 7:48pm

SerialComplaint wrote: »

This isn’t an equality issue. Bikes aren’t cars. Cars aren’t bikes. That’s why there are different rules for both.

See here's the problem. Cycle tracks, cycling two abreast, and motorways apart, there is in fact no difference in Irish traffic law between cars and bicycles in terms of how they are supposed to be used on the road. Exactly the same rules apply to both.

Now you and I might both view that as perverse and the reaction of me and my colleagues in Cyclist.ie has been to lobby get the law changed. It might help us in this lobbying process if you could indicate how you came the conclusion that there are different rules for cyclists? (You are clearly not alone among the cycling population).

A week of nearly getting milled out of it (MOD WARNING #127)

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