Why does Craig Doyle on ITV keep referring to Ireland as part of the "Home Nations"

Hyperbullet

In rugby terms we are part of the home nations, like him or not he's correct to use the term. So what's the problem here?

vicwatson

In rugby terms we are part of the home nations, like him or not he's correct to use the term. So what's the problem here?

Need proof on that, not good enough just to come out and declare it so we should all accept it. I for one don't like being considered as part of the "UK" in rugby terms or any other terms for that matter. The home nations no longer exists, its like the way the English are still sending letters to the ROI with "Eire" written on them, they are still referring to us as "Eire" yet they don't refer to France as Francais or Germany as Deutschland for example. Pure ignorance and disrespectful to keep lumping us in under that old term "home nations".

Seanchai

homerjay2005 wrote: »

france and italy are probably classed as the home nations also, so its nothing to do with "britain".

They aren't, so please get your facts straight before basing your opinions on nonsense.

tolosenc wrote: »

It is one of the Home Nations.

Wakey, wakey: it's 2011, not 1911. What, aside from your evident personal predilections, makes Ireland a "home nation" to Britain?

Min

vicwatson wrote: »

Lives in Wicklow !;)




Absolutely, but we were on about Craig Doyle !:D

:pac: shows how much I care about him.

Seanchai

Hyperbullet wrote: »

In rugby terms we are part of the home nations, like him or not he's correct to use the term. So what's the problem here?

"In rugby terms" Ireland also played in the "British Isles Lions" until Irish rugby people rightly - very rightly - took issue with that most jingoistic of British colonial terminology. It's now the "British and Irish Lions".

Likewise, saying we "are part of the home nations" is no reason against changing our status to being as much a part of the British "home nations" as France or Italy is - i.e. none. Because something was imposed on us, doesn't mean it should continue to be accepted by us. Irish people can accept rugby as a good game, but reject the imperial overtones of its organisation. Both are perfectly compatible.

Namlub

vicwatson wrote: »

Need proof on that, not good enough just to come out and declare it so we should all accept it. I for one don't like being considered as part of the "UK" in rugby terms or any other terms for that matter. The home nations no longer exists, its like the way the English are still sending letters to the ROI with "Eire" written on them, they are still referring to us as "Eire" yet they don't refer to France as Francais or Germany as Deutschland for example. Pure ignorance and disrespectful to keep lumping us in under that old term "home nations".

Presumably they don't refer to France as Francais because that would be incorrect on every level...not that I'm sure what you're complaining about anyway

vicwatson

Presumably they don't refer to France as Francais because that would be incorrect on every level...not that I'm sure what you're complaining about anyway

Elaborate please, perhaps you are misunderstanding me? I'm talking about when they send a letter or parcel to Ireland, instead of writing Republic of Ireland on the label the tendancy is to write "Eire". They don't write Francais or Deutschland. They write France or Germany.

Anyhow back to the main point, I don't like getting lumped in with the British and being referred to as part of any ancient term like home nations. Simples.

Hyperbullet

vicwatson wrote: »

Need proof on that, not good enough just to come out and declare it so we should all accept it. I for one don't like being considered as part of the "UK" in rugby terms or any other terms for that matter. The home nations no longer exists, its like the way the English are still sending letters to the ROI with "Eire" written on them, they are still referring to us as "Eire" yet they don't refer to France as Francais or Germany as Deutschland for example. Pure ignorance and disrespectful to keep lumping us in under that old term "home nations".

What proof are you looking for exactly? A wikipedia link like you provided? Maybe go read up on the history of the sport from a more reputable source rather than from one I can literally go and edit to state that you, yourself op, are a one person "home nation". And for what it's worth your argument has gone from being a little nitpick on something Craig Doyle says to being a subtle anti-brit rant that has become all too familiar, and boring in this forum.

Seanchai wrote: »

"In rugby terms" Ireland also played in the "British Isles Lions" until Irish rugby people rightly - very rightly - took issue with that most jingoistic of British colonial terminology. It's now the "British and Irish Lions".

Likewise, saying we "are part of the home nations" is no reason against changing our status to being as much a part of the British "home nations" as France or Italy is - i.e. none. Because something was imposed on us, doesn't mean it should continue to be accepted by us. Irish people can accept rugby as a good game, but reject the imperial overtones of its organisation. Both are perfectly compatible.

The Lions are now referred to as the British and Irish Lions. It comprises of the best players from the British Isles, which this island is part of in geographical, not colonial, terms. Care to elaborate a bit more on the "imperial overtones" of it's organisation?

Namlub

vicwatson wrote: »

Elaborate please, perhaps you are misunderstanding me? I'm talking about when they send a letter or parcel to Ireland, instead of writing Republic of Ireland on the label the tendancy is to write "Eire". They don't write Francais or Deutschland. They write France or Germany.

Anyhow back to the main point, I don't like getting lumped in with the British and being referred to as part of any ancient term like home nations. Simples.

France isn't Francais in French, it's er...France.
And Eire is the name of the country in what is, to all intents and purposes, one of the official languages of the country. I don't see why you've taken such an issue with it...

ceadaoin.

vicwatson wrote: »

Elaborate please, perhaps you are misunderstanding me? I'm talking about when they send a letter or parcel to Ireland, instead of writing Republic of Ireland on the label the tendancy is to write "Eire". They don't write Francais

Anyhow back to the main point, I don't like getting lumped in with the British and being referred to as part of any ancient term like home nations. Simples.

I thought this thread was about the use of the term Home Nations in Rugby, not the letter writing habits of english people? What has the fact that some people refer to Ireland as Eire go to do with anything?

The Irish rugby team represents the whole island of Ireland which includes part of the UK so why should it not be included as a Home Nation? Even if it didn't include Northern Ireland I wouldn't see the issue. It's purely a sporting term. We are their closest neighbour and regulary participate in competitions with teams from the UK so we have close ties with them as far as rugby goes.

vicwatson

I thought this thread was about the use of the term Home Nations in Rugby

No, it is infact about Craig Doyle and ITV referring to Ireland as part of the so-called "home nations".

Anyhow back to the main point, I don't like getting lumped in with the British and being referred to as part of any ancient term like home nations. Simples.

tolosenc

Seanchai wrote: »

Wakey, wakey: it's 2011, not 1911. What, aside from your evident personal predilections, makes Ireland a "home nation" to Britain?

Northern Ireland.

I win. Suck it.

Micky Dolenz

5........

ceadaoin.

vicwatson wrote: »

I thought this thread was about the use of the term Home Nations in Rugby

No, it is infact about Craig Doyle and ITV referring to Ireland as part of the so-called "home nations".

Anyhow back to the main point, I don't like getting lumped in with the British and being referred to as part of any ancient term like home nations. Simples.

Why are you ignoring the fact that the irish rugby team also represents Northern Ireland which, like it or not, is part of the UK?

stovelid

Just because.

Seanchai

Hyperbullet wrote: »

The Lions are now referred to as the British and Irish Lions. It comprises of the best players from the British Isles, which this island is part of in geographical, not colonial, terms. Care to elaborate a bit more on the "imperial overtones" of it's organisation?

Nothing in the red bit that I haven't said myself, if you had read it - but clearly you didn't.

Er, as for the blue part, the imperial overtones have patently been removed by removing the term "British Isles" and replacing it with the respectful "British and Irish Isles". The "home nations" thing is simply a hangover from the same British colonial culture which placed Ireland in the "British Isles" for so much of rugby's history. The latter has changed, now it's time for the "Home Nations" jingoism to change similarly. That's all. I really don't believe my views here are hard to follow.

Chuck Stone

Rugby is better than flags and national anthems.

vicwatson

Why are you ignoring the fact that the irish rugby team also represents Northern Ireland which, like it or not, is part of the UK?

I'm not. Not at all.

Why is Craig Doyle and ITV ignoring the fact that the Republic of Ireland is no longer part of the British empire and therefore is no longer part of the antiquated term "home nations"

Raaarrw come out ye black and tans etc etc etc ad nauseum...

Buceph

To be fair, ITV have done a lot to represent Ireland properly during the World Cup. They have Girve the Swerve doing analysis, Alan Quinlan doing commentary and Craig Doyle. And Doyle is probably the best rugby host going at the moment. It's obvious he knows the game and the players and his knowledge comes across in his presenting. Far better than the pantomime Hook and McGurk show. And Doyle doesn't hide the fact he's Irish either. He's referred to Ireland as his team and shows his allegiance and delight in the Irish team winning. I think RTE should snap him up and sign him to do presenting for themselves.

ITV have done far more than I would have thought they would do to represent Ireland, especially as what I would view as a fairly tabloid channel.

vicwatson

To be fair, ITV have done a lot to represent Ireland properly during the World Cup. They have Girve the Swerve doing analysis, Alan Quinlan doing commentary and Craig Doyle. And Doyle is probably the best rugby host going at the moment. It's obvious he knows the game and the players and his knowledge comes across in his presenting. Far better than the pantomime Hook and McGurk show. And Doyle doesn't hide the fact he's Irish either. He's referred to Ireland as his team and shows his allegiance and delight in the Irish team winning. I think RTE should snap him up and sign him to do presenting for themselves.

ITV have done far more than I would have thought they would do to represent Ireland, especially as what I would view as a fairly tabloid channel.

I tend to agree, except for the part when he refers to Ireland as part of the home nations when clearly we aren't

Hyperbullet

Seanchai wrote: »

Nothing in the red bit that I haven't said myself, if you had read it - but clearly you didn't.

Er, as for the blue part, the imperial overtones have patently been removed by removing the term "British Isles" and replacing it with the respectful "British and Irish Isles". The "home nations" thing is simply a hangover from the same British colonial culture which placed Ireland in the "British Isles" for so much of rugby's history. The latter has changed, now it's time for the "Home Nations" jingoism to change similarly. That's all. I really don't believe my views here are hard to follow.

Your views are confusing because by your reckoning Ireland is no longer part of the British Isles. Geographically, as I pointed out, we still are. It's the collective of islands that compromises Britain, the surrounding small islands, and the island of Ireland. So are you disputing this term as being imperialist or what is your argument here?

To be honest I, nor any rugby fan, cares about being referred to as being part of the "home nations". As long as we're whipping every other nation that's lumped into that category for 80 minutes every season it really doesn't matter.

Ben Hadad

vicwatson wrote: »

its like the way the English are still sending letters to the ROI with "Eire" written on them, they are still referring to us as "Eire" Pure ignorance and disrespectful to keep lumping us in under that old term "home nations".

Lol. I mean is just goes to show how ridiculously touchy and insecure you are about the whole thing that you get offended by people in the UK using the official name of our country as per our constitution for a mailing address. Lol just lol.

People like you are an embarrassing to the people who had the strength of character to create this country. Please keep your small mindedness to yourself and stop embarrassing the rest of us. Please.

DM_7

Why?

Because Ireland was a member of the Home nations championship when it was formed in the 1800's. Ireland were also a competing teams when France left the 5 nations and it became the Home Nations again in the 30's.

Irish players still Celebrate the Triple Crown when they beat England, Scotland and Wales so the Irish team obviously isn't offended to be known as a home nation. Same players are Proud to play for the British and Irish Lions.

BBDBB

What time do we invade?



*fetches pitchfork and a packed lunch

Chucky the tree

vicwatson wrote: »

I'm not. Not at all.

Why is Craig Doyle and ITV ignoring the fact that the Republic of Ireland is no longer part of the British empire and therefore is no longer part of the antiquated term "home nations"

He's not. He never once referred to the Republic of Ireland as a home nation.

steve9859

Wow. Are people really this insecure? Really?!? Anyone would think Craig Doyle was making a political statement!!

It's just a commonly used term that has zero political significance other than in the heads of those who go out of their way to find something to be offended about. A number of sports compete in annual competitions titled 'Home Nation Internationals' between England Scotland Wales and Ireland (as in 'the island of...).

deirdremf

Donny5 wrote: »

Nope, the home nations traditionally means the constituent nations of the UK, ..... Anyway, it's non-controversial.

I'm afraid that it's very controversial.

Benny_Cake wrote: »

For the purposes of rugby,Ireland is one of the "Home Nations".
....

steve9859 wrote: »

Chill out OP, it's just a sporting thing. Other sports do it too. Rowing has a annual "Home International" regatta with England, wales, Scotland and Ireland. Not controversial in any way IMO. I'm almost certain hockey have a home nations international series too

Twin-go wrote: »

You're INCORRECT, simple as. It is not a Rebublic of Ireland rugby team. The Irish rugby team represents the island of Ireland part of which is British. And that home nation championship you quoted is now the Triple Crown. Do you suggest that Ireland should not have win that as they are not a "Home Nation"?

Which part of Ireland is British? Some of Ireland is ruled from Britain, but that does not make it british. Strangely enough, some people used to think Rhodesia was british, mainly because some of the colonists living there came from britain.. But is wasn't, and managed to free itself from the shackles of the empire and it's hangers-on.

Hyperbullet wrote: »

In rugby terms we are part of the home nations, like him or not he's correct to use the term. So what's the problem here?

I suppose that the problem is that rugby is one of the unionist sports in Ireland, played by those who would like to be back in the Empire/commonwealth/united kingdom.
Of course it's also played by some others, but is very much dominated by the well-off. Limerick notwithstanding.

Isn't it funny how this topic brings out all the unionists and crypto-unionists.
The term "home nations" came about as this was a way of referring to the uk within the empire. The empire is long gone and terms like "british isles" and "home nations" should follow it into oblivion.

steve9859

deirdremf wrote: »

Isn't it funny how this topic brings out all the unionists and crypto-unionists.

Isn't it funny how this topic brings out all those with such deep rooted insecurities that they look for unionist political statements in everything they see

BBDBB

I always wondered why it was called Rugby Union.........all along its been a cunning subterfuge to regain the days of the sun never setting on the British Empire and those dumb Kiwis, Ozzies, Canadians, French, Tongans, Japanese, Romanians, Georgians, Russians, Italians etc etc all fell for it!


someone somewhere is twirling a moustache and laughing manically.........damn she's ugly

Namlub

deirdremf wrote:

I suppose that the problem is that rugby is one of the unionist sports in Ireland, played by those who would like to be back in the Empire/commonwealth/united kingdom.
Of course it's also played by some others, but is very much dominated by the well-off. Limerick notwithstanding.

Oh for god's sake, you know a lot about Brian O'Driscoll and Tommy Bowe's burning desire to be part of the British empire again do you? And well-off =/= unionist.

Solair

There's nothing offensive about "the home nations". It fully recognises the Republic and Northern Ireland. It just says we're neighbours and we feel rather comfortably 'at home'.

It's about the least offensive phrase to describe the UK and Republic of Ireland that I can think of.

Also, most of the time British commentators use phrases like that out of a warmness / familiarity towards Ireland not out of some kind of imperial gesture!

The only thing that annoys me is when people start referring to the Republic as "the UK" or Irish people as "British". That's just ignorant.

ejmaztec

Namlub wrote: »

Oh for god's sake, you know a lot about Brian O'Driscoll and Tommy Bowe's burning desire to be part of the British empire again do you? And well-off =/= unionist.

I'm absolutely positive that the French would also like to be part of the British Empire, they're gagging for it, you can tell.:pac:

Benny_Cake

deirdremf wrote: »

I suppose that the problem is that rugby is one of the unionist sports in Ireland, played by those who would like to be back in the Empire/commonwealth/united kingdom.
Of course it's also played by some others, but is very much dominated by the well-off. Limerick notwithstanding.

Isn't it funny how this topic brings out all the unionists and crypto-unionists.
The term "home nations" came about as this was a way of referring to the uk within the empire. The empire is long gone and terms like "british isles" and "home nations" should follow it into oblivion.

Firstly,since you quote me, I am not a Unionist nor a crypto-Unionist (whatever that is) not that it's a crime to come from a Unionist background.

The idea that rugby is a "Unionist sport" is laughable,given it's following among people of all backgrounds on this island.As is the notion that the well-off must be Unionists.The empire is long gone,unfortunately the chip on your shoulder isn't.

Solair

Perhaps it's a totally Republican sport, it does play as a united Ireland and gets unionists out wearing green and occasionally standing to the Irish National Anthem.

mike65

vicwatson wrote: »

Elaborate please, perhaps you are misunderstanding me? I'm talking about when they send a letter or parcel to Ireland, instead of writing Republic of Ireland on the label the tendancy is to write "Eire". They don't write Francais or Deutschland. They write France or Germany.

This is what happens when the stamps all says EIRE, its a prompt I'm sure of it.

Solair

mike65 wrote: »

This is what happens when the stamps all says EIRE, its a prompt I'm sure of it.

It is Éire. Maybe it's people making a big effort and going out of their way to distinguish it from the UK?

France is France in French BTW "Français" is "French"!

I regularly write to España btw and I don't think anyone is confused by it, or offended by it!!

If you stick Cymru on the end of a Welsh letter, it'll get there too, and if it's going to North Wales, it might even get there faster than if you write Wales

ejmaztec

Solair wrote: »

It is Éire. Maybe it's people making a big effort and going out of their way to distinguish it from the UK?

France is France in French BTW

I regularly write to España btw and I don't think anyone is confused by it, or offended by it!!

After seeing all the crap posted in AH over the years, I don't even know what this country's called anymore. Everyone seems to have a different name for it.

Whatever it's called, it seems to be the home of the most uber-sensitive people on the planet, especially where the neighbours are concerned.:eek:

Solair

ejmaztec wrote: »

After seeing all the crap posted in AH over the years, I don't even know what this country's called anymore. Everyone seems to have a different name for it.

Whatever it's called, it seems to be the home of the most uber-sensitive people on the planet, especially where the neighbours are concerned.:eek:

It gets even worse when you're writing to the People's Republic of Cork!

I had a letter with a typo that said "Cork, Co. Dublin" and you should have seen the scribbling off that the postman did!

There was almost a hole in the letter!!!

Solair

JamesBond2010 wrote: »

I just want to Ask

Is there anyone here with Aviva Health insurance??
( i am thinking of going for level 1 Hospital)

What are they like???

Maybe you should start a new thread?! This one is about getting upset about friendly references to 'the home nations' by successful Irish TV presenters.

ejmaztec

Solair wrote: »

Maybe you should start a new thread?! This one is about getting upset about friendly references to 'the home nations' by successful Irish TV presenters.

Perhaps we could see if Aviva healthcare can pay for this thread to have a lobotomy?

KeithAFC

Is the Home nations doing well?

Solair

KeithAFC wrote: »

Is the Home nations doing well?

It'd be "are" (it's an all-inclusive apolitical term).

Naomi00

Ireland are always referred to as part of the 'Home Nations'.

BBDBB

Solair wrote: »

Maybe you should start a new thread?! This one is about getting upset about friendly references to 'the home nations' by successful Irish TV presenters.

have you heard the rumour Im starting that Graham Norton is a guest star on the next series of Little Britain!

LH Pathe

I heard him refer to them as us and us as them.

Apparently his face is agreeable

Chuck Stone

Hopefully some day there won't be nation states so we can put all this bullshit behind us.

LH Pathe

Seems he's a face for every occasion. And every network

jackeen of all trades, master of none

Twin-go

deirdremf wrote: »

Which part of Ireland is British? Some of Ireland is ruled from Britain, but that does not make it british. Strangely enough, some people used to think Rhodesia was british, mainly because some of the colonists living there came from britain.. But is wasn't, and managed to free itself from the shackles of the empire and it's hangers-on.

Eh, I think you answered your own question here

deirdremf wrote: »

I suppose that the problem is that rugby is one of the unionist sports in Ireland, played by those who would like to be back in the Empire/commonwealth/united kingdom.
Of course it's also played by some others, but is very much dominated by the well-off. Limerick notwithstanding.

Since when does been well off = Wants to be part of the UK
Your ignorance of the players and supporters of Rugby on the island of Ireland at all levels is emence.

deirdremf wrote: »

Isn't it funny how this topic brings out all the unionists and crypto-unionists.
The term "home nations" came about as this was a way of referring to the uk within the empire. The empire is long gone and terms like "british isles" and "home nations" should follow it into oblivion.

Ireland is part of the British Isles. It's a geographical region and nothing to do with current political situation.
You should go and educate yourself a little bit more on this topic.

JONJO THE MISER

Cant stand that smug prat, i cant believe he has not got punched up yet.