Centre fire pistols?

Ketron

I've been doing a good bit of reading on the subject on the legalities of centre fire pistols in Ireland. I would like to eventually own one, I'll start with a .22 first, but it would be nice to know if I can upgrade!

Is there a complete blanket ban on issuing licences for them?

Regardless if you are gardai/army etc?

Thanks!

Cass

Ketron wrote:

Is there a complete blanket ban on issuing licences for them?

Short answer is yes.

Long answer - Unless you have held a firearm certificate for a centrefire pistol on or before the 18th November 2008 you cannot apply, own, possess a centrefire pistol.

The only caliber pistols being considered or that a person can apply for is a rimfire caliber once it is not capable of holding more than 5 shots. Or alternatively an Air pistol.

Being a member of An Gardai/Army makes no difference. If the pistol is a personal item, as in you hold the firearm certificate for it, and it was not issued to you as a member of either force for the purposes of your duties then you still cannot have one.

There are no centrefire pistol (restricted short arms) licenses being issued.

dax121

im afraid you dont have a hope of getting a CF pistol in ireland unless you had one licenced pre oct 2009? when they amanded the firearms act :mad:

Ketron

Thanks for the replies lads, had a feeling that was the story....now why didnt I apply in 2007!

Whats the future in regards to this looking like?

Can you apply for a .22 with a 10 round magazine in the restricted category?

Ketron

Ezridax wrote: »

There are no centrefire pistol (restricted short arms) licenses being issued.

That answered my last question

Cheers again!

rowa

Ezridax wrote: »

Short answer is yes.

Long answer - Unless you have held a firearm certificate for a centrefire pistol on or before the 18th November 2008 you cannot apply, own, possess a centrefire pistol.

The only caliber pistols being considered or that a person can apply for is a rimfire caliber once it is not capable of holding more than 5 shots. Or alternatively an Air pistol.

Being a member of An Gardai/Army makes no difference. If the pistol is a personal item, as in you hold the firearm certificate for it, and it was not issued to you as a member of either force for the purposes of your duties then you still cannot have one.

There are no centrefire pistol (restricted short arms) licenses being issued.

I have heard of members of the guards having a very difficult time licencing even .22 rifles and shotguns, so its not easy for anyone.

Cass

Ketron wrote: »

Can you apply for a .22 with a 10 round magazine in the restricted category?

No.

The 10 round mag limit makes the pistol a restricted firearm, and as its the restricted licenses that are not being issued you will not get a license.

The "misconception" is that all centrefires are banned (or whatever terminology you wish to use). The actual way it stands is instead of banning the pistols by make, model, mag capacity, they have simply "banned" the granting of restricted, short arm, license. This covers any C/F pistols, any pistol of rimfire nature that exceeds the mag limit. In other words it gives a much broader scope than naming a particuler caliber(s).

Whats the future in regards to this looking like?

An SI by the Minister could free up 80+% of C/F pistols within a couple of weeks. Sparks could give you a much more detailed explanation of this from a legal point of view as his understanding is greater than mine.

However for the time being there seems to be no movement on the subject so unfortunately we have to wait and see.

Cass

rowa wrote: »

I have heard of members of the guards having a very difficult time licencing even .22 rifles and shotguns, so its not easy for anyone.

There is the thing. We look at An Gardai as the "enemy" when infact they suffer the same restrictions and grief as every other shooter when trying to licens a firearm. I know of two RFDs that have had trouble getting their pistol licenses even though they met all the criteria.

Its based on the person irrespective of their standing, profession, etc.

Ketron

Its a touchy thing when it comes to politics, unfortunately, mainly due to ignorance on the subject.

I have heard stories on guards not being issued licences for centerfires before, some guy wanted to shoot in police competitions and the super put a damper on it.

Hopefully something will be done about, I'd like to own one at some stage!

dax121

Ketron wrote: »

That answered my last question

Cheers again!

their actually is restricted .22 pistols out their. i wanted 6 rounds for comp use so they gave me a restricted licence for my s&w 22a. saying because it was restricted i could have 6 rounds in the mag

Cass

When did you get the license?

rowa

dax121 wrote: »

their actually is restricted .22 pistols out their. i wanted 6 rounds for comp use so they gave me a restricted licence for my s&w 22a. saying because it was restricted i could have 6 rounds in the mag

Which is all nonsense in the first place because its the magazine which holds the rounds so if you have two magazines, one ten round and the other 5 round , the gun is restricted with one and non restricted with the other.

Witcher

What realistically speaking are the chances of the Gov. changing their stance on CF pistols? I know Shatter supported some anti bloodsport policies or such but what are his views on firearms?

tac foley

Blay wrote: »

What realistically speaking are the chances of the Gov. changing their stance on CF pistols? I know Shatter supported some anti bloodsport policies or such but what are his views on firearms?

Now, that, Sir, is one of the great imponderables. We simply do not know what Mr Shatter's POV is regarding current or future licensing, firearms or indeed anything else for that matter. AFAIK, he has not visited any of the shooting centres to meet up with people FTF and discuss matters - did he visit the recent International shooting competition venue at the Midlands?

tac

Cass

rowa wrote: »

............ if you have two magazines, one ten round and the other 5 round , the gun is restricted with one and non restricted with the other.

The problem is with the 5 round mag you are within the limitations/conditions of your license. With the 10 round mag you are in breach of your license conditions. Silly - yes, but thats what we have.

Blay wrote: »

What realistically speaking are the chances of the Gov. changing their stance on CF pistols? I know Shatter supported some anti bloodsport policies or such but what are his views on firearms?

As was said who knows. Only the man himself, and as we have not had any statment or discussions with him it remains a mystery. As to the anti bloodsport policies well i know he was president or some such title with ICABS, etc , but they give that "honour" to anyone that will accept, and it changes more often than the weather.

Perhaps an NGB/coalition of NGBs could lobby him with respect to some of our concerns. Perhaps they have, but have not yet received a response. Guess we'll see whether its sooner or later though is anyone's guess.

tac foley wrote:

did he visit the recent International shooting competition venue at the Midlands?

No, but in his defence he was only in the job a wet week, and i doubt the competition, as big as it was, was of little concern to him. Again only speaking from my own view point, but he has alot of other matters to deal with that fall under the remit of his position/title, and i suppose from his perspective that while changes are needed in firearms law/legislation for the time being with the 2009 Act things are "ticking along nicely" and there is no immediate need to address any issues.

Again its only my thoughts of what he may or may not be thinking, and its pure speculation/guess work. I could be way of the mark, and he is infact drafting new legislation that will see a return of C/F pistols to all, loosening of the restricted firearms list, etc.:D

rowa

tac foley wrote: »

Now, that, Sir, is one of the great imponderables. We simply do not know what Mr Shatter's POV is regarding current or future licensing, firearms or indeed anything else for that matter. AFAIK, he has not visited any of the shooting centres to meet up with people FTF and discuss matters - did he visit the recent International shooting competition venue at the Midlands?

tac

Well brian cowan made a big thing of turning up at the midlands rifle range in tullamore for handshakes and photos , had nothing but praise for the shooters of ireland and not long afterwards the poison dwarf ahern under cowans watch, done his best to destroy irish shooting. So shatters attendance or lack of it at shooting venues isn't an indication of how he stands on shooting sports.

dax121

Ezridax wrote: »

When did you get the license?

about 9 months after this new act came in. i argued that 5 rounds arent of any use to me for comps. so after he heard my arguement me gave me a restricted licence saying it will alow me to have 6 rounds in the mag. its a bollox law why not make it 6?
i think their just makeing it difficult on us :rolleyes:

Cass

Thats interesting and amazing in equal amounts.

You got a restricted, short arm, license in April (or there abouts) of 2010. Congratulations. You are literally the only person i've heard of, know of, spoken to that has one.

Don't pick me up wrong i'm delighted you got it, and fair play. I'm just wondering how the Chief Super "passed" this one off to his/her superiors. It would surely leave the door open for anyone else seeking one to take a case.

Just to be clear it was the Chief Super that issued it?

dax121

their is actually a few restricted short firearms issued with going to the district court. we have one in our club it was one if the first to be issued in the country. a few of the CF guys were lucky and got theirs granted be it by mistake of whatever but they got it.
im not actually going to name the person as i still have to deal with them but it was the chief super. and lets just say their beef was with CF pistols and not .22's.

firefly08

Does this 5 round business mean you can't have a .22 revolver? Or does it only apply to automatics?

Tackleberrywho

firefly08 wrote: »

Does this 5 round business mean you can't have a .22 revolver? Or does it only apply to automatics?

you have to plug one chamber
an f'in joke.


Thankfully my pistol is legal with 15 round mags

rowa

firefly08 wrote: »

Does this 5 round business mean you can't have a .22 revolver? Or does it only apply to automatics?

The smith and wesson is on the list , i seen a 10 shot one with half the chambers plugged, typical dense irish.

dax121

rowa wrote: »

The smith and wesson is on the list , i seen a 10 shot one with half the chambers plugged, typical dense irish.

i saw one also with 5 chambers plugged. ruined a lovely revolver :mad:

dax121

Ezridax wrote: »

Thats interesting and amazing in equal amounts.

You got a restricted, short arm, license in April (or there abouts) of 2010. Congratulations. You are literally the only person i've heard of, know of, spoken to that has one.

Don't pick me up wrong i'm delighted you got it, and fair play. I'm just wondering how the Chief Super "passed" this one off to his/her superiors. It would surely leave the door open for anyone else seeking one to take a case.

Just to be clear it was the Chief Super that issued it?

i just want to clear up something. i had got my licence for a restricted short firearm 8-9 months after they amended the firearms act. however it was not a new application it was a rewenal. just got stuck with all the other restricted pistols in the CS desk. reason why it ended up on the CS desk was i ticked restricted firearm box as i wanted to be able to load 6 rounds for comp use. hence the restricted .22 pistol.

Bananaman

For clarity it must be stated that there ARE restricted licenses for short firearms - both rimfire and centrefire

Some people, such as myself, were lucky to simply renew their license after.the great cull of 2008 - we still compete, both at home and abroad.

The vast majority, however, both rimfire and.centrefire, were not and were refused renewals of.their restricted licenses, for various spurious reasons

Many of those, numbering in the hundreds, appealled and. have been before the courts (NOTE: we may not discuss the specifics on this forum) going on three years now. I have no doubt, that in the fullness of time we.will see.them back on the.competition circuit

Some have been lucky to complete the appeals process and have already been back in competitiin.

So, for now, you may not apply for a.restricted short.firearm license - you may however, apply for an unrestricted license, limited to .22 calibre.

Most competitions now cater for.this having made adjustments to and.indeed having introduced new.disciplines.

So, it aint pretty, it aint ideal, but you can do it

B'Man

Cass

Bananaman wrote: »

For clarity it must be stated that there ARE restricted licenses for short firearms - both rimfire and centrefire

I understand as i have a restricted license myself, but AFAIK know anyone holding a restricted firearms license for a short firearm MUST have held a license for it on or before 18th NOvember 2008.

How many if any were issued after this date that did NOT hold a restricted license?

dax121 wrote: »

i just want to clear up something. i had got my licence for a restricted short firearm 8-9 months after they amended the firearms act.

They amended the firearms in July 2009. The minister made his statment in November 2008 (18th) stating anyone seeking a restricted firearms license may not apply for one after this date unless it was previously held. So by you getting yours 8-9 months after the new legislation, and i understand you say it was because of delays, but even if you got it immediately and did not hold a restricted license prior to 18th November 2008 then technically you shouldn't have been able to apply.

I held my license prior to the 18th Nov. 2008, yet was refused a license when i went ot substitute one 9mm for another 9mm in Feb 2009.

however it was not a new application it was a rewenal.

The thing with the new legislation is the licenses are all NEW APPLICATIONS. Every 3 years you must re-apply to get your licenses for your firearms. They are not actually classed as renewals. Yes you are asked did you hold a license for this firearm in the previous 3 years, but its still not classed as a renewal. Thats my understanding based on info from numerous Gardai, FPU, and people more in the know than i.

just got stuck with all the other restricted pistols in the CS desk. reason why it ended up on the CS desk was i ticked restricted firearm box as i wanted to be able to load 6 rounds for comp use. hence the restricted .22 pistol.

I understand what you're saying, but i have to ask. Prior to the 18th November 2008 did you hold a restricted or unrestricted license?

EDIT - I have to stress that i'm not trying to be awkward i'm just trying to clarify how a restricted license was issued after the "cut off date".

Mr.Flibble

Ezridax wrote: »

I understand what you're saying, but i have to ask. Prior to the 18th November 2008 did you hold a restricted or unrestricted license?

EDIT - I have to stress that i'm not trying to be awkward i'm just trying to clarify how a restricted license was issued after the "cut off date".

It makes no difference; the 2009 Act just says "..a firearms certificate.."

If his cert, which he clearly implies he had, was issued before Feb 2008 would there be any distinction anyway?


For someone who's not trying to be awkward you're succeeding admirably. You give a strong impression you think he shouldn't have this pistol.

dax121

sure before this ban werent all .22 pistols just normal certs?
also ezirdax my understanding of the this is you could not do a sub on a CF pistol?
maybe thats why even tho you had a licence they woulnt allow it?

Cass

Mr.Flibble wrote: »

You give a strong impression you think he shouldn't have this pistol.

Your inference is of no concern to me. I have continuously said that is not the case. I'm trying to understand all the aspects of his license because i was refused a substitution and he seems to have been granted a restricted license after the date. Nothing sinister in it.

For someone who's not trying to be awkward you're succeeding admirably.

You are simply provoking me for the purposes of an argument which quite frankly i'm not in form for so knock yourself out.

dax121 wrote:

also ezirdax my understanding of the this is you could not do a sub on a CF pistol?

Yes you could. I got the substitution. What i was refused was the import license. Then another lorry load of crap because of mix up in paperwork, then they tried to refuse my license because they said i was issued a new license for a new handgun. When i told them that i never got the firearm, and i was still licensed on my old pistol i got it resolved but they threw the 18th November 2008 thing in my face saying my "new" license was after this date and i was not getting the license. I got it all sorted, but the Nov date was key in their rasoning for trying to refuse me, and with all the other crap about the sub.


Hence my reason for asking so many questions. I believe they had no valid reason for refusing the import license, and i should have been allowed to get the gun. I was granted the sub so i obviously was deemed still responsible enough, yet the DOJ still refused the import license.

Anyway water under the bridge, and as i seem to be upsetting people i'll leave it be.

dax121

ur the first guy ive heard of to get a sub on a CF pistol. and i know guys that have tryn to get them. because their is alot of good cheap CF pistols out their. one guy i know wanted one that was all ready in the country and he was refused. suppose again it depends of ur CS

Cass

I got the sub in Feb 2009. Then all the crap mentioned above began. My license was amended back to the original firearm. hen when i found a gun almost the same already in the country i was refused the sub. :mad:

Cannot win. I was refused the import on the basis that they didn't want a "proliferation" of handguns. :rolleyes: So i thought with the gun already being in the country that this would be an easy one. Then i was told "we cannot sub it until the new act goes through, etc etc."