hotel changing contract due to vat rate

ants09

Where a contract to supply goods or services is entered into before 1 July 2011, and the contract is not completed until after that date, the agreed VAT inclusive price may be subject to an appropriate adjustment due to the change in the VAT rate, unless there is agreement to the contrary between the contracting parties.

so in other words you pay vat at 13.5% on the deposit and at 9% on the balance

ants09

clancyoo7 wrote: »

T There is one clause in the contract that states that the hotel reserves the right to amend or alter any regulation. You cannot have a clause in a contract which can fundamentally change the original terms of the contract. If such a clause would be allowed to exist you could effectively double or treble the price of everything agreed without the consent of the other party. No contract would be worth the paper it was printed on.

S.I. No. 27/1995 - European Communities (Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts) Regulations, 1995 would overrule that clause

(2) For the purpose of these Regulations a contractual term shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations under the contract to the detriment of the consumer, taking into account the nature of the goods or services for which the contract was concluded and all circumstances attending the conclusion of the contract and all other terms of the contract or of another contract on which it is dependent.

(1) An unfair term in a contract concluded with a consumer by a seller or supplier shall not be binding on the consumer.

Vego

discus wrote: »

Stop making the OP out to be some money sucking parasite.

This is a VAT issue. The hotel are charging him for an event which is happening AFTER the VAT decrease. If the hotel refund him in order to reflect the new VAT conditions, they will still me making the same amount of profit. What they are doing is using the VAT decrease as a way to improve their profits, and not passing it on to the consumer... Ireland eh?

OP, I'd look around at other hotels, and try find a better deal. If you do find it, then get on to the hotel and tell them you are 1 considering taking your business elsewhere, with someone who'll pass on the VAT savings. That manager sounds like a right sh*t for threatening to increase the total price. Would you care to name and shame?

Am I ? thanks you know me so well...

clancyoo7

Vego wrote: »

this is the thing I dont get ....your getting a big discount already ...yet you want more ?

I am not looking for a further discount from the hotel. It is not a discount for them to give. The discount has been given by the government in the from of a tax cut. They are not losing out by passing it on. They are attempting to withhold money that is meant for the consumer.

Why do you think I should not get it??

noodler

clancyoo7 wrote: »

I am not looking for a further discount from the hotel. It is not a discount for them to give. The discount has been given by the government in the from of a tax cut. They are not losing out by passing it on. They are attempting to withhold money that is meant for the consumer.

Why do you think I should not get it??

Again it has already been spelled out for you:

If they contract just says VAT rate then you are entitled to nothing legally.

If the contract says Vat of 13.5% then you seem to have a case.

Just know that many businesses didn;t pass on the Vat cut and there was nothing the Government could do.

EDIT: To put that better, the Government never made it legal requirement to pass on the rate cut.

clancyoo7

noodler wrote: »

Again it has already been spelled out for you:

If they contract just says VAT rate then you are entitled to nothing legally.

If the contract says Vat of 13.5% then you seem to have a case.

Just know that many businesses didn;t pass on the Vat cut and there was nothing the Government could do.

EDIT: To put that better, the Government never made it legal requirement to pass on the rate cut.

This is the case if the wedding was booked after July 1st however it was booked prior subject to 13.5% vat. Their is only one vat rate for food what other rate could they charge. It is implied that the rate to be charged at time service was delivered. This rate is no longer valid.

antoinolachtnai

Unfortunately, it's not just about the rights and wrongs.

You need to look at your negotiation position here. How much saving can this really bring you? I am guessing that we are talking about a few hundred euros when you take into account that it only applies to the food/hospitality part of the bill (though I don't know how big your wedding is, obviously).

On the other hand, how many days away is the wedding? Are you really in a strong position if they decide to reject your business? Will you be able to move the whole show to a different hotel? What would be the cost of that?

It really isn't a practical thing to force specific performance on a hotel through the courts in advance of the date. You might lose and end up with a big costs bill (thousands). Even if you win, there will be a lot of ill-feeling and tension as a result, which will ruin your big day.

The hotel knows all the above, and they are playing off it.

If you really wanted to pursue this, you would be better to pursue it retrospectively, after the wedding. In practice, this claim will not be very viable from a litigation point of view. I am not saying that you do not have a good argument, just that it is unlikely to be the right kind of claim to win the day in court. It will be too small, and it is really not certain that you would win. There are lots of if's and but's.

Another possibility is that you push the matter into some sort of mediation or arbitration. It is hard to see where this would get you. Employing a decent mediator for the day would certainly cost more than the value of the VAT.

Is there anything else you can get the hotel to do here? Maybe throw in a few bottles of wine or Cava or something? That will work better than looking for a straight discount.

Bella mamma

OP, this is not a big deal as you know. You are right. End of.

In our case, last weekend, the IHF was "dismayed" but said they could do nothing. Failte Ireland was great. They have a guy based in their Dublin office legal section who put in a call to the hotel, without naming the complaintant and the discount for food and accom was passed on the next day. We can't recall his name to PM you, but it was unusual.

At the same time Revenue's IEI section was contacted and also followed up with the hotel, but we (family member) were already sorted.

Pkiernan

OP - how much of a deposit have you at stake?

Is booking another venue out of the question?

Last thing you want on your wedding day is to have a niggling feeling that you are being effed over (which you are if they do not pass the lower VAT rate on to you).

clancyoo7

Pkiernan wrote: »

OP - how much of a deposit have you at stake?

Is booking another venue out of the question?

Last thing you want on your wedding day is to have a niggling feeling that you are being effed over (which you are if they do not pass the lower VAT rate on to you).

To protect myself from an increase in price. I have contacted a hotel and negotiated a price that works out €12 less per table for their platinum package. Its a saving of over 3k and its 5mins up the road from the place I have booked which will mean minimum disruption for my guests who have booked accmodation in the area. Time to put the squeeze on the manager

Pkiernan

clancyoo7 wrote: »

To protect myself from an increase in price. I have contacted a hotel and negotiated a price that works out €12 less per table for their platinum package. Its a saving of over 3k and its 5mins up the road from the place I have booked which will mean minimum disruption for my guests who have booked accmodation in the area. Time to put the squeeze on the manager

Great job - keep us all updated if you don't mind.

MyKeyG

clancyoo7 wrote: »

To protect myself from an increase in price. I have contacted a hotel and negotiated a price that works out €12 less per table for their platinum package. Its a saving of over 3k and its 5mins up the road from the place I have booked which will mean minimum disruption for my guests who have booked accmodation in the area. Time to put the squeeze on the manager

Delighted for you OP. The posters claiming you were being greedy just perpetuate the 'begrudging Irish' epidemic. The hotel you dealt with originally were using your argument to bully you into paying the original €60 when as you quite rightly said they would have lost nothing.

maxer68

ants09 wrote: »

Where a contract to supply goods or services is entered into before 1 July 2011, and the contract is not completed until after that date, the agreed VAT inclusive price may be subject to an appropriate adjustment due to the change in the VAT rate, unless there is agreement to the contrary between the contracting parties.

so in other words you pay vat at 13.5% on the deposit and at 9% on the balance

Vat does not apply to deposits. The deposit is kept in full by the hotel or whoever holds it as compensation if the contract is not completed. - Confirmed by european court case about 3 years ago.

What the OP also has to look at - if he does get his reduction, will the hotel drop the service level and just do what is required? - And if they do and it not as special as the BRIDE had expected, will it all have been worth it?

Because there is one thing I have learnt from being married and being a guest at far too many weddings than I care to remember is that it is the bride's day and if something goes wrong and you are found to be the blame, you'll get a little reminder every now and then for 20+ years.

I would look for something extra that will make the event even better rather than the cash reduction.

clancyoo7

Just to update everybody got the rate reduced. . I would like to thank everybody for all your advice over the last few days, it was very much appreciated. It terrible that you have to battle for what you are entitled to. I hope it wont be to my detriment as regards service provided on the day.

dudara

You used the word "entitled" which is actually incorrect.

The hotel was under no obligation to pass on the VAT reduction to the consumer. Of course, morally they should, but they were under no legal obligation to do so.