Which Parlour?

Farfield

Want advice on putting in a parlour. I am converting a 20 cow byre (36foot long by 24 foot wide). This has to allow for pit, entry and exit. Thinking of going swingover with acr's and i defo like a good wide pit. I have an attached dairy for the bulk tank and pump etc.
How many units could i fit in here - 8, 10? I am not sure. Any recommendations/points to watch for when getting prices? I will put in parlour feeders i think.
Target is to milk about 40 cows initially, but with scope to increase numbers to say 80, but without changing the parlour and as quickly as possible.
Any points appreciated.

bt12

would fit a 10 unit at 2ft 2" centers provided the cows are entering straight from the back, standard width for this type of setup is 22ft which
includes a 6ft pit which is plenty wide enough

whelan1

dont think there is a need for acrs in a 8 or 10 unit parlour, we have a 15 unit with acrs, had a 10 unit before that with out acrs . When i started i built a 6 unit parlour and put on 2 more units , was milking 40 cows .

Farfield

Thanks for that. Well with say a 10 unit with acr's how long would it take to milk 40 cows doing proper prep of cows and washing up etc? And would this be big enough to do 80 cows in say an hour and a half max?
Any do's or dont's for pricing or advice if you were doing it?
Whats your Estimated price for a "toyota corolla" type parlour - v reliable and does a pretty good job, but not major flash with electronic type crap???

centre 13

The most common mistake in most Irish parlours is to make the pit too wide..gauge width on when cups are on cows ..4 foot6 is standard width in new sheds in NZ now..no need for s overs or acr s as a result

stanflt

Farfield wrote: »

Thanks for that. Well with say a 10 unit with acr's how long would it take to milk 40 cows doing proper prep of cows and washing up etc? And would this be big enough to do 80 cows in say an hour and a half max?
Any do's or dont's for pricing or advice if you were doing it?
Whats your Estimated price for a "toyota corolla" type parlour - v reliable and does a pretty good job, but not major flash with electronic type crap???

30mins max with acrs based on 10 units and auto washer. assuming a flow rate of avg 3lt/min- which is very standard even for high yielders

blue5000

centre 13 wrote: »

The most common mistake in most Irish parlours is to make the pit too wide..gauge width on when cups are on cows ..4 foot6 is standard width in new sheds in NZ now..no need for s overs or acr s as a result

+1

An extra foot or so in a pit adds up to a lot of miles in a year. You could put in a sheet of steel at tail ends to stop sh1t hitting you, only disadvantage is you won't be able to see freezebrand numbers easily.

keep going

Why the fasination with acrs ,if i was going to do a parlour number one thing is cow flow,next leave room for expansion ,next drafting.Wont dream of acrs below 14 units they will save you no time.Keep stuff out of the pit,it makes for easier working envoiroment and less to keep clean(do not underestimate this).All these units are grand but they all have to be kept clean.

whelan1

keep going wrote: »

Why the fasination with acrs ,if i was going to do a parlour number one thing is cow flow,next leave room for expansion ,next drafting.Wont dream of acrs below 14 units they will save you no time.Keep stuff out of the pit,it makes for easier working envoiroment and less to keep clean(do not underestimate this).All these units are grand but they all have to be kept clean.

have to agree, no need for acrs in under 14 units , op why do you want them?

jeff greene

You said in your other thread that you have a six unit that is usable, until you get settled I'd use that, milk 40 cows in less that an hour easily. Spend the money on backing gate, feeders, drafting or roadways etc. Alot time can be saved there too.

My pit here is 6', I find it okay, my milk recorder loves it though, no awkward moments when squeezing past each other:)

bbam

OP..
If your parlour is past fit for purpose you're right to change... I'd advise throwing in pit and rails for your 14 units, 2'2 centres.
Put in a 7 unit machine with no ACR's, spec the piping & pumps for the 14 units.
You'll milk the 40 cows in 6 sides of the parlour and then the upgrade to the 14 units will be easier and cheaper down the road.. You might only decide to put in a few more units but all the infrastructure will be there already..

I've done this before, you can even add on 2/3 units a year as you can afford it.. Explain this in full when your getting prices up front.

2'2 Centres would be my least favourite as it IS dirty when your training cows/heifers into it.. You can sheet in between the rails but if its done poorly it can be a dirt catcher too.. But if your planning on going above 8 units it doesn't make sense to go above 2'2 unit spacing.

5live

Hi Farfield. The standard centres between cows are usually 2'3", 2'6" and 3'. Using 2'6" centres would allow 14 units in the conversion but with a fairly narrow exit in front. 2'3" will allow the same number of units with a bit more space to exit. 3' will allow less units and so more rounds and longer milking.

Personally, i would go for 2'6" as i find it easier to manage heifers as they have less room to move forward and i am under less risk of getting kicked for those first few milkings. Your bet option would be to go to different farms with different setups and stand in the pit, preferably while they are milking. Any manufacturer will take you to farms in your area to show you what they have.

Pit width is tricky. Like most things, it is a trade off between having space and doing too much walking. The difference between 6' and 4'6" is 3 foot of walking for every cow and also if you have jars or not.

As a few have posted, acr's would only be needed from about 14 units up, unless you intend having a very elaborate prep routine altogether. One man can handle 10 units with minimal pressure and next to none of the elaborate add-ons currently in fashion. By all means get a parlour that can accomodate them but 1k a unit for acrs is money better spent elsewhere for a while i think as it will only be of use for a few weeks a year, spring when training heifers and winter, when yields are low and the first cow is milked when you are putting on the last unit.

The acr money would be better spent on feeders. Batch feeders for 14 units cost about 5.5k up to nearly 20k for the top of the range jobs. However there are plenty of companies between these ranges doing interesting feeders for under 10k for 14 units

Farfield

Thanks for all the advice. Re the ACR's its not that i am hung up on them, its that several local farmers with parlours all told me they are a must above 8 units. Remember i am coming from using a pipe line 10 years ago and cows tied in stalls, standing beside them and stooping half the day - so a parlour is totally new to me (hence converting old byre).

OK i think i will put in a pit big enough for say 12 units, but only put in 8 for now with no ACR's and decent feeders. The cow flow is pretty good as they come straight into the byre from a square yard through a good wide door and there should be plenty of room for exit also.

Do all of you guys have a "cubicle" per cow in the sheds for winter? Several have told me they have maybe 35 cubicles but 40ish cows and 4/5 lie on the slats - not sure about that, but i suppose they will never all lie on the cubicles anyway even with mats??

5live

Farfield wrote: »

Thanks for all the advice. Re the ACR's its not that i am hung up on them, its that several local farmers with parlours all told me they are a must above 8 units. Remember i am coming from using a pipe line 10 years ago and cows tied in stalls, standing beside them and stooping half the day - so a parlour is totally new to me (hence converting old byre).

OK i think i will put in a pit big enough for say 12 units, but only put in 8 for now with no ACR's and decent feeders. The cow flow is pretty good as they come straight into the byre from a square yard through a good wide door and there should be plenty of room for exit also.

Do all of you guys have a "cubicle" per cow in the sheds for winter? Several have told me they have maybe 35 cubicles but 40ish cows and 4/5 lie on the slats - not sure about that, but i suppose they will never all lie on the cubicles anyway even with mats??

I am working 14 units with no acrs. I'm not idle in the pit and if i had feeders in i feel i would have no problem going to 17 units and still milk in the same time as now. Now unless the cows are covered in sh*te coming into the parlour i dont think you need worry about over milking for a while as a basic prep routine will have you waiting in the parlour for the round to finish.

Most try to have 1 cubicle/cow but you can go up to 10% more cows than cubicles. At any one time you will have cows eating, walking, drinking and just standing chewing the cud so you will never have all the cubicles occupied. And you will, as you said, have cows not lying on the cubicles at all so unless they are milking i reckon you would be safe enough having a few more cows than cubicles

Farfield

OK, thanks again for advice.

One parlour guy was out this evening and he suggested building up the large entrance door into the bottom end of the byre (its about 8' wide in the middle of the bottom wall - a totally straight run in for cows) I thought this was a good idea, but he suggesting two seperate doors going into each side of the byre and that will allow a longer pit? Maybe.

Final query for now - recording jars or meters? I have been told straight to tank is the best again with meters and no jars?

bogman_bass

I wouldnt bother with jars
*they're bulky
*Its a large surface area that has to be cleaned and can harbor bacteria
*the're glass and anything glass is always in danger of being broken
*Adds cost

yes its nice to see how much each cow is giving each milking but its far from essential

centre 13

separate small doors destroy cow flo and as said previous that is no 1 ...other advice straight trough cheaper than mangers and great for cow flo as no meal left behind to slow up exit... acr s not really justified till 20 units plus ...... 2 foot 2 centres tricky and ****ty ..pit depth no less than 34 inches unless you are really small !...please please go milk in many parlours...visit on its own no good...remember a basic parlour will leave cash for use elsewhere..I have seen many fancy parlours with a poor roadway system or insufficient water etc outside.

Farfield

Thanks to all for the really useful advice and help - it really is appreciated.

stanflt

best money ever spent

awaywithyou

stanflt wrote: »

best money ever spent

looks like one of ned harty's finest...............

you have all the gadgetry stanfit....?

stanflt

awaywithyou wrote: »

looks like one of ned harty's finest...............

you have all the gadgetry stanfit....?

auto id
feed to yield
acrs
voice speakers
cluster cleanse
auto washer
auto heaters

linebacker52

stanflt wrote: »

auto id
feed to yield
acrs
voice speakers
cluster cleanse
auto washer
auto heaters

How do you find the auto washer always sorry I didn't put one in ours when we were doing it.

stanflt

linebacker52 wrote: »

How do you find the auto washer always sorry I didn't put one in ours when we were doing it.

saves a lot of time

no more splashing detergents on the skin

awaywithyou

stanflt wrote: »

auto id
feed to yield
acrs
voice speakers
cluster cleanse
auto washer
auto heaters

meters...? Backing gate and drafting...?

are u happy with dairymaster.......?

stanflt

awaywithyou wrote: »

meters...? Backing gate and drafting...?

are u happy with dairymaster.......?

meters of course-a must. cows yield monitered daily-pc program runs parlour-if a cow give less milk than normal it will say depressed yield unit x as the cluster comes off

no backing gate needed as cubicles and slats all behind parlour
no auto drafting gate-have a basic home designed 3way system

F.D

Stanfit, nice pice, looks like a good set up how do you find the feed troughs i presume there bolted through the walls, i've see a few set ups like that ant they have come very loose, and the cows have done a nice job on the pipe coming down from the feeders too in the ones i've seen
Do you have mats in the pit, i think they should be a must in any parlour makes some difference

jeff greene

At our 'local';) discussion group meeting last night, the topic of doubling up units came up, now as I understand very little extra output can be attained by doing that. Can anyone tell me differently?

Mats would be nice, even at the ploughing it was a relief the stand on them, dirt getting under them might be a concern though.

centre 13

jeff greene wrote: »

At our 'local';) discussion group meeting last night, the topic of doubling up units came up, now as I understand very little extra output can be attained by doing that. Can anyone tell me differently?

Mats would be nice, even at the ploughing it was a relief the stand on them, dirt getting under them might be a concern though.

basically a 6 unit double up is the same as a 9 unit swing over..cups spend too much time hanging up..Gregg care sell parlour boots..basically boots with mats for soles.. no concerns about dirt 70 euro I think.

bbam

I wouldn't advise a double up parlour unless you are working with a restricted length for the parlour and have to get into a particular spot..

Remember you'll be having ~40% more install costs and doubling the maintenance costs for 50% more throughput.. Not cost efficient unless you HAVE to do it...

Mats in the pit are great but they really need to be open grid type mats.. I've seen closed solid mats used and it does get dirty under them...

Regarding jars getting dirty... It sems more to do with the person cleaning, some parlours I visited would keep clean from service to service.. In some the jars would be mank with sh1te within a few weeks :eek:

5live

Yeah jars do get dirty but every week or so it takes about 10 minutes to give them a blast of the volume washer and clean them off while washing off the dust from the lines.

Does anybody know the cost of the parlour mats. I meant to enquire at the ploughing but forgot

Farfield

Hi to all, need a few pointers.

I am a new start and sorting a new 8 point parlour at the minute and am about to buy 25-30 nice friesan heifers-all calving spring.

Need help and pointers to train these new ladies in the parlour so that the whole thing doesnt go crazy when the first one calves!! There are no older cows to help, so all new heifers and new parlour?? Help

whelan1

walk them through the parlour a few times, talk to them and give them some meal... rub their legs and maybe have a radio on so they can get used to noise, this works for me anyways, best of luck

mattthetrasher

hi farfield i put in a 12 unit parlour on 2.2 standings in a 45ft by 22ft shed swing over arms was going to go for cluster removers but spent the money on auto feeders and air gates instead also a manual headlock rail agood job for the 2ft2 setting with hfrs.milked all hfrs through it at the start no probs the back of my parlour is the full 22 ft wide when its bright like that they enter better .i used the diy milk recording for 5 years until i got sense this year and bought my own meters e75 each guy comes out and does milk recording way way better job milking 90 cows this parlour is ideal

jeff greene

Firstly don't panic its not that big of a deal, do as Whelan says and start early as you don't want to be upsetting them too much when heavily incalf.

I think heifers are more mellow these days, I remember having to help put them into the parlour before school with my father, used to jump gates and had to tie them up. I don't even train them now and bar an odd one they're perfect.

Farfield

That sounds good. The panic for me will be gettin the shed built and parlour in for the end of January and then do a few training runs.
The new heifers seem very quiet in the field, but i suppose the test will be when they calve and puttin on the clusters for the first time. I think i will run all them thru a few times and give wee trickle of meal and maybe teat spray etc and turn on the parlour so they get used to the sound etc.
hopefully will not need the clamps of the jump leads that one neighbour told me to put on their tales!!!!

bbam

whelan1 wrote: »

walk them through the parlour a few times, talk to them and give them some meal... rub their legs and maybe have a radio on so they can get used to noise, this works for me anyways, best of luck

Yea this is the best approach..
When they arrive spend as much time as you can walking through them a few times a day if possible..... Getting a feeling for the nervy ones is important

Try them i small groups first, let them find their own way in, meal in the mangers will bring them in..
Then start closing gates and then try it with the machine running as well..
Slow, steady and relaxed...

By the time your milking they will be somewhat used to the process at least..

Farfield

OK i will defo do all that - i want no handlins!!

Problem could be that the parlour might only be finished a week or so before they calve, but lets hope not. i will keep the pressure on the work men.

case 5150

Farfield wrote: »

OK i will defo do all that - i want no handlins!!

Problem could be that the parlour might only be finished a week or so before they calve, but lets hope not. i will keep the pressure on the work men.

farfield i in same boat as yourrself but just wondering how did you get quota and did you get much to begin with

Farfield

Guys, getting back to the jars/meters etc. I have 8 jars from an old parlour on an outlying farm, and wud suit an 8 point parlour that we are putting in. The parlour fitter thinks better with meters and acrs - he says acrs wont go with the bell jars. Maybe i shud just go with the bell jars that i have and forget meters and acr?

whelan1

Farfield wrote: »

Guys, getting back to the jars/meters etc. I have 8 jars from an old parlour on an outlying farm, and wud suit an 8 point parlour that we are putting in. The parlour fitter thinks better with meters and acrs - he says acrs wont go with the bell jars. Maybe i shud just go with the bell jars that i have and forget meters and acr?

what do you mean by bell jars? i have jars and acrs, what is his reasoning on the acrs not going with the jars... it still goes back to another point you do not need acrs in an 8 unit parlour

bbam

Ok so rather than use your existing jars he wants you to buy meters and acr's. Whatever could his reasoning be?;)
I've seen lots of parlours with jars and acr's. But as whelan says you'll have no need for them at eight units.
Is your pit very narrow?

Farfield

No the pit will be 6 foot wide.

Thats what i am going to - i will go with the jars i have and no acr's - cuts out about £6k.

Whats thoughts on pneumatic feeders in the parlour with a button for each stall - push once to get 1/2 kilo of meal. I dont want to go expensive on feed to yield etc. Just want to keep it basic.

awaywithyou

Farfield wrote: »

That sounds good. The panic for me will be gettin the shed built and parlour in for the end of January and then do a few training runs.
The new heifers seem very quiet in the field, but i suppose the test will be when they calve and puttin on the clusters for the first time. I think i will run all them thru a few times and give wee trickle of meal and maybe teat spray etc and turn on the parlour so they get used to the sound etc.
hopefully will not need the clamps of the jump leads that one neighbour told me to put on their tales!!!!

we had problems with cows and especially heifers kicking off clusters.... a lad suggested using a vice-grips... worked well..... then we tried the clamps off a jump lead.... best job ever... havent had a bother with a heifer or cow in the 2 years we're using them....

whelan1

Farfield wrote: »

No the pit will be 6 foot wide.

Thats what i am going to - i will go with the jars i have and no acr's - cuts out about £6k.

Whats thoughts on pneumatic feeders in the parlour with a button for each stall - push once to get 1/2 kilo of meal. I dont want to go expensive on feed to yield etc. Just want to keep it basic.

we have those feeders , grand job.. also use the compressor for pumping wheels and greasing machinery and oh used spray gun on it also... had the orby feeders before that and knocked myself out when a handle fell down on my head one morning :cool:

Farfield

On the heifer training thing - if you guys were startin from scratch, and presuming that i have got them familiour with goin into the parlour before calving (again remember no other mature cows to help here-totally new start ) - so when say only the first one has calved and needs milked, would you push in a full row and give them all a wee bite morning and night and just milk the calved one in the row then until they all calf - that could mean some heifers gettin a wee bit of meal morning and night, but may not calf for 6 weeks - might leave their condition score gettin too high and harder t calf??

Bit of advice would be greatly appreciated on these first few runs through the parlour with only 1 or 2 cows needing milked??

aidanki

Farfield wrote: »

On the heifer training thing - if you guys were startin from scratch, and presuming that i have got them familiour with goin into the parlour before calving (again remember no other mature cows to help here-totally new start ) - so when say only the first one has calved and needs milked, would you push in a full row and give them all a wee bite morning and night and just milk the calved one in the row then until they all calf - that could mean some heifers gettin a wee bit of meal morning and night, but may not calf for 6 weeks - might leave their condition score gettin too high and harder t calf??

Bit of advice would be greatly appreciated on these first few runs through the parlour with only 1 or 2 cows needing milked??

yes v good approach 100% recommended on a full round

on the feeding bit leave them dry feed them until 3 weeks before calving unless v thin

keep going

awaywithyou wrote: »

we had problems with cows and especially heifers kicking off clusters.... a lad suggested using a vice-grips... worked well..... then we tried the clamps off a jump lead.... best job ever... havent had a bother with a heifer or cow in the 2 years we're using them....

what do you use the vice grips for?

whelan1

where do you put the clamp on? i have a total b*tch at the minute a second calver , that has so far broken a recording jar with a flying kick and is driving me mental, does the clamp work....

Rovi

keep going wrote: »

what do you use the vice grips for?

^
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This.

And the jump-lead clamps too???

Tipp Man

Rovi wrote: »

^
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This.

And the jump-lead clamps too???

You put the jump lead clamp on the cows tail and it's supposed to stop them kicking

We found it just drove them nuts and gave up on it pretty quickly

Kick bar is the only thing to stop a cow kicking although with cows at 90 degrees it is a right pain putting it on

whelan1

but where on the tail do you put it? is it the tail head up at the cows backside or down at the bottom?