Wasps nest - rented house

Liv09

I'm in a rented house. Came from from work on Friday evening to the kitchen infested with wasps. I couldn't get hold of the owner so I called a pest company who came out straight away and got rid of them.

I obviously had to pay the guy before he left but what way do I stand with regards to getting the money back from the owner. I spoke with her today but she said she'd have to get back to me. Does anyone know where I stand on this? Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Spiritofthekop

Landlord should pay for it.

Take it out of next months rent.

ballyharpat

While she is liable for it, she doesn't technically have to pay for it. I always call the landlord and wait for them to get back to me, I don't know how long you waited. I know that I have my own people that I used to call when I had a problem with my property, I am sure she will pay for it, but I wouldn't do something like that again-just my 2 cents to keep yourself covered.

Liv09

Thanks for the info. I couldn't wait any longer. The kitchen was covered in them and also due to the fact that I have an ten month old, I wasn't gonna wait till the next day or worse still till after the weekend. She didn't even phone me back, I had to call her today.

MagicMarker

How much did it cost, out of interest?

ballyharpat

Liv09 wrote: »

Thanks for the info. I couldn't wait any longer. The kitchen was covered in them and also due to the fact that I have an ten month old, I wasn't gonna wait till the next day or worse still till after the weekend. She didn't even phone me back, I had to call her today.

I'd believe that you are well covered so, especially since ou have a two year old and the fact that she didn't get back to you until today, just have the receipt ready. Should not be a problem.

paul71

I am curious on this, is this something you would expect a landlord to pay for?

jimmynokia

Yeah its his house im sure if the landlord lived there he would do the same,who would rent a house full of wasps ffs

paul71

jimmynokia wrote: »

Yeah its his house im sure if the landlord lived there he would do the same,who would rent a house full of wasps ffs

For me, it is a borderline thing. I removed a hive myself this year, never even considered ringing the landlord. If there was a structural defect with a house allowing pests/insects/rodents in, then I would consider it a landlords issue.

Liv09

MagicMarker wrote: »

How much did it cost, out of interest?

€100

tara73

isn't there a law/regulation existing in the tenancy laws about from when/which amount the landlord/ the tenant is responsible for maintenance issues of the property?
For example everything up to 50 Euro is tenants responsibility, everything above is ll's responsibility.

that's how I know it from other countries and saves everybody from arguments.

D3PO

Sorry but if I was your landlord Id be telling you Im not paying.

You have no right to go and do something and then think you can just ring the landlord with a bill especailly when your post seems to indicate your talking less than a few hours after you first attempted to contact the landlord.

Im not even sure if it would be his responsibility but even if it were he has the right to procure who he wants to do the work. He might have known somebody who would do it for no charge for example or he might have done it himself. You cant go spending other peoples money.

You made the decision to spend the money there and then so tough its therefore your bill.

For all he knows this is a mate of yours who has just written you an invoice to scam 100 euro off him.

borderlinemeath

How did the wasps get into the kitchen? Through an open window? A vent?

If I was a landlord I would be asking these questions. Also how come the tenant didn't notice any wasps before? Did they not notice if they were coming through a vent from the garden?

While I agree the tenant didn't give adequate time for the landlord to respond, it may have been down to lack of maintenence on their behalf. I would expect a tenant to perhaps notice that there was a wasps nest adjacent to a window or a vent, and phone the landlord in advance of an infestation in the house. The nest didn't just appear overnight.

However -from the landlords perspective - if they are registered and paying the correct taxation on the property they can write this off against their taxes as maintenence.

Grolschevik

D3PO wrote: »

Sorry but if I was your landlord Id be telling you Im not paying.

You have no right to go and do something and then think you can just ring the landlord with a bill especailly when your post seems to indicate your talking less than a few hours after you first attempted to contact the landlord.

Im not even sure if it would be his responsibility but even if it were he has the right to procure who he wants to do the work. He might have known somebody who would do it for no charge for example or he might have done it himself. You cant go spending other peoples money.

You made the decision to spend the money there and then so tough its therefore your bill.

For all he knows this is a mate of yours who has just written you an invoice to scam 100 euro off him.

I thiink it might depend on the situation! What you're saying here implies that if a tenant comes home to find the attic pumping out water, or smoke coming out of the fuseboard, but can't get in contact with the landlord, the tenant should not take it upon themselves to call for repairs. I don't think that's reasonable.

In this case, kitchen full of wasps plus baby equals emergency in my eyes...

jimmynokia

borderlinemeath wrote: »

How did the wasps get into the kitchen? Through an open window? A vent?

If I was a landlord I would be asking these questions. Also how come the tenant didn't notice any wasps before? Did they not notice if they were coming through a vent from the garden?

While I agree the tenant didn't give adequate time for the landlord to respond, it may have been down to lack of maintenence on their behalf. I would expect a tenant to perhaps notice that there was a wasps nest adjacent to a window or a vent, and phone the landlord in advance of an infestation in the house. The nest didn't just appear overnight.

However -from the landlords perspective - if they are registered and paying the correct taxation on the property they can write this off against their taxes as maintenence.

a bit ott,put yourself in a similar circumstance.

borderlinemeath

jimmynokia wrote: »

a bit ott,put yourself in a similar circumstance.

What's OTT? That as a landlord I would expect a tenant to maybe notice a wasps nest in the back garden? The tenant has a 10 month old child - hardly cooped up in the house all summer - surely she was out in the garden at some point. Some tenants walk around oblivious to hints of problems until they occur and then there's a catastrophe.

Maybe not the case here but as I've stated - wasps nest don't appear overnight - they are built up by a swarm of wasps that would have been evident in the garden previous to swarming into the kitchen.

I have been in a similar enough situation. My OH had a house that was full of mice that the tenant wanted rid of. Except the tenant had been going out to work every day and left the door open for the dog to wander in and out. And after initial inspection and no sign of entry he didn't pay for rentokil to come out as the tenant had basically invited the mice in! And in the grand scheme of things had left themselves wide open to burglary at the same time.

As I stated if the landlord does pay it can be written off against expenses.

D3PO

Grolschevik wrote: »

I thiink it might depend on the situation! What you're saying here implies that if a tenant comes home to find the attic pumping out water, or smoke coming out of the fuseboard, but can't get in contact with the landlord, the tenant should not take it upon themselves to call for repairs. I don't think that's reasonable.

In this case, kitchen full of wasps plus baby equals emergency in my eyes...

None of those situations still allow the tennant to go and make that decision.

Water leak turn off the water mains
electricity problem turn off the fuse.
wasps in the kitchen, can of wasp killer or clsoe the door.

if the OP said they had been waiting days or even a day there may be an argument but they werent. If incomprehensible to even contemplate that they can expect to get emergency maintenance work like that down at whim.

Besides this. a wasps nest doesnt miraculously appear in an hour or two. So liek the other poster says Id have questions about how it occured and how bad the situaiton genuinely was.

The fact is you cannot go and get an emergency service person in without consulting the landlord. If you could this would be abused.

Like I said if you were allowed to do this you could one week say there was a wasps nest, the next an electricity problem, the next a water issue, the next perhaps the door lock and so. Problems that never existed but get a buddy in those areas of work to write you up some invoices and scam the landlord out of money.

The OP didnt consult the landlord didnt give adequate time for a fix so therefore assumes responsibility for any cost. Thre isnt no argument that can be made to say otherwise.

The same thing if you smash up your car you cant just go get it fixed and expect the insurance company to pay. They have the right to go through a process or appraisal of the work needed and procuring the services required at the price they think is best. The landlord has similar.

If you did that to an insurance company they woudl tell you to f off. The landlord should therefore do the same

Grolschevik

D3PO wrote: »

None of those situations still allow the tennant to go and make that decision.

Water leak turn off the water mains
electricity problem turn off the fuse.
wasps in the kitchen, can of wasp killer or clsoe the door.

if the OP said they had been waiting days or even a day there may be an argument but they werent. If incomprehensible to even contemplate that they can expect to get emergency maintenance work like that down at whim.

Besides this. a wasps nest doesnt miraculously appear in an hour or two. So liek the other poster says Id have questions about how it occured and how bad the situaiton genuinely was.

The fact is you cannot go and get an emergency service person in without consulting the landlord. If you could this would be abused.

Like I said if you were allowed to do this you could one week say there was a wasps nest, the next an electricity problem, the next a water issue, the next perhaps the door lock and so. Problems that never existed but get a buddy in those areas of work to write you up some invoices and scam the landlord out of money.

The OP didnt consult the landlord didnt give adequate time for a fix so therefore assumes responsibility for any cost. Thre isnt no argument that can be made to say otherwise.

The same thing if you smash up your car you cant just go get it fixed and expect the insurance company to pay. They have the right to go through a process or appraisal of the work needed and procuring the services required at the price they think is best. The landlord has similar.

If you did that to an insurance company they woudl tell you to f off. The landlord should therefore do the same

Ok, so, fair enough.

Are there any circumstances (hypothetical, improbable or science fictitious) where you can imagine saying to yourself "Jaysus, I'm glad my tenant called a repair guy without my knowledge; saved me a packet in the long run!".

(On an aside, I'd never heard of or thought of the possibility of tenants running up spoof invoices from their mates just to scam the landlord for a couple of hundred quid. I would have thought that would be pretty easy to detect, if you kept an eye on the maintenance of your property. Now, of course, you've put the idea into thousands of people's heads!:D)

jimmynokia

D3PO wrote: »

Grolschevik wrote: »

I thiink it might depend on the situation! What you're saying here implies that if a tenant comes home to find the attic pumping out water, or smoke coming out of the fuseboard, but can't get in contact with the landlord, the tenant should not take it upon themselves to call for repairs. I don't think that's reasonable.

In this case, kitchen full of wasps plus baby equals emergency in my eyes...

None of those situations still allow the tennant to go and make that decision.

Water leak turn off the water mains
electricity problem turn off the fuse.
wasps in the kitchen, can of wasp killer or clsoe the door.

if the OP said they had been waiting days or even a day there may be an argument but they werent. If incomprehensible to even contemplate that they can expect to get emergency maintenance work like that down at whim.

Besides this. a wasps nest doesnt miraculously appear in an hour or two. So liek the other poster says Id have questions about how it occured and how bad the situaiton genuinely was.

The fact is you cannot go and get an emergency service person in without consulting the landlord. If you could this would be abused.

Like I said if you were allowed to do this you could one week say there was a wasps nest, the next an electricity problem, the next a water issue, the next perhaps the door lock and so. Problems that never existed but get a buddy in those areas of work to write you up some invoices and scam the landlord out of money.

The OP didnt consult the landlord didnt give adequate time for a fix so therefore assumes responsibility for any cost. Thre isnt no argument that can be made to say otherwise.

The same thing if you smash up your car you cant just go get it fixed and expect the insurance company to pay. They have the right to go through a process or appraisal of the work needed and procuring the services required at the price they think is theory t. The landlord has similar.

If you did that to an insurance company they woudl tell you to f off. The landlord should therefore do the same

I would hate it to rent a property of you and your conspiracy theories

D3PO

jimmynokia wrote: »

I would hate it to rent a property of you and your conspiracy theories

Well I dont rent property so you have no worries there. You might think conspiracy theory but being a landlord is no different than running any other business and that means keeping a tight control on costs and protecting your investment.

Opening yourself you a scam makes no commericial sense. Just becasue you and I are trustworthy people that wouldnt consider abusing a situation whereby the tennant has permision to unilaterally hire service providords doesnt mean there arent many out there that would.

If you think nobody would try this then ask yourself why insurance companies will send out an assessor to see house or car damage before signing off on a claim. I mean if everybody was trustworthy surely they would jsut accept the invoice they are given and be done with it ......

Its the same thing on a smaller scale here.

tara73

Grolschevik wrote: »

I thiink it might depend on the situation! What you're saying here implies that if a tenant comes home to find the attic pumping out water, or smoke coming out of the fuseboard, but can't get in contact with the landlord, the tenant should not take it upon themselves to call for repairs. I don't think that's reasonable.

In this case, kitchen full of wasps plus baby equals emergency in my eyes...

this sums it up. and so the landlord should pay.

regarding the wasp nest, very pretentious from people here to assume it must have been noticed before.

1. nobody knows the living situation/the property of the OP.
2. wasp nests are normally very smartly hidden, for reason, they are not plugged in shrieking colours on walls visible for everyone.
3. in summertime the wasps themselves are not flying out in swarms from the nest, they fly out not very noticable, one by one, instinctively protecting their nest.
4. and most important: it's autumn now, the wasps start to die, so they get a bit crazy, don't care about wether they are noticed anymore, coming out of the nest all at once, slightly agressive, searching for food, which to be found in kitchens...

so bit of basic knowledge useful before judging...and the OP had a baby in the house.
would like to ask the: -no, it wasn't an emergency case, he/she should have waited until the LL calls back, (maybe for a week, maybe forever??) with the wasps and the ten month old- you would have done that with your baby there, yes?

D3PO

tara73 wrote: »

this sums it up. and so the landlord should pay.

regarding the wasp nest, very pretentious from people here to assume it must have been noticed before.

1. nobody knows the living situation/the property of the OP.
2. wasp nests are normally very smartly hidden, for reason, they are not plugged in shrieking colours on walls visible for everyone.
3. in summertime the wasps themselves are not flying out in swarms from the nest, they fly out not very noticable, one by one, instinctively protecting their nest.
4. and most important: it's autumn now, the wasps start to die, so they get a bit crazy, don't care about wether they are noticed anymore, coming out of the nest all at once, slightly agressive, searching for food, which to be found in kitchens...

so bit of basic knowledge useful before judging...and the OP had a baby in the house.
would like to ask the: -no, it wasn't an emergency case, he/she should have waited until the LL calls back, (maybe for a week, maybe forever??) with the wasps and the ten month old- you would have done that with your baby there, yes?

Pot calling kettle black perhaps ?


So its not ok for people to assume the nest was visible or that some hints of a nest were visible but its ok for you to assume that the OP's description of a kitchen full of wasps as being fact and not an exaggeration ?

iguana

D3PO wrote: »

Pot calling kettle black perhaps ?


So its not ok for people to assume the nest was visible or that some hints of a nest were visible but its ok for you to assume that the OP's description of a kitchen full of wasps as being fact and not an exaggeration ?

Have you ever seen what happens when a wasps nest empties? If you have then you'd know full well that it's not an exaggeration as what the OP describes is exactly what happens. Wasp stings are incredibly painful (one got me yesterday and I felt like I'd been whacked with a hammer of evil, my bones actually hurt) and can be fatal. If children are stung it can make them more likely to develop an allergy later in life, especially if they are stung more than once. So if someone finds their kitchen covered in wasps waiting to deal with it would be highly irresponsible.

That said I'm not sure if the landlord is responsible. That would depend on a number of factors. If the nest was in the house before the OP moved in, it's definitely not her responsibility. Or if the next happened due to a problem with the house. However if the wasps got in through open windows/doors and is a newer addition to the house than the OP then I'm not sure if that's the landlord's responsibility because it's certainly not their fault.

I've just looked at Threshold and they seem to suggest that in this situation, assuming wasps are vermin, that the local authority should be called.
http://www.threshold.ie/page.asp?menu=70&page=240

borderlinemeath

Grolschevik wrote: »

(On an aside, I'd never heard of or thought of the possibility of tenants running up spoof invoices from their mates just to scam the landlord for a couple of hundred quid. I would have thought that would be pretty easy to detect, if you kept an eye on the maintenance of your property. Now, of course, you've put the idea into thousands of people's heads!:D)

I would hate it to rent a property of you and your conspiracy theories

As much as there are bad landlords out there - there are equally a bad number of tenants who do pull scams. - I recently had a thread on here regarding another property where there was deliberate damage done for the purposes of a claim. The tenant moved out when the "problem" was permanently removed so the scam couldn't come to fruition.

They were however still collecting their rent allowance, so managed to leave with the months RA and not paying rent owed for 10 days. Probably moved on to the next unsuspecting landlord to be duped.

That's not to say there aren't good tenants - but it's the bad ones that make landlords wary.

D3PO

iguana wrote: »

Have you ever seen what happens when a wasps nest empties? If you have then you'd know full well that it's not an exaggeration as what the OP describes is exactly what happens.

I dont doubt it genuine le tme clear that up BUT and its a big BUT. As the OP went and dealt with it themselves the landlord and we only have their description of what has happened to go by.

The OP dealt with the issue removing the ability of the landlord to appraise and deal with the situation. The landlord shouldnt be expected to take the OP's word on it again I stress Im not casting doubt on the OP's character but its a fundamental point.

I think it is a point that spans across any scenario. I would say the exact same if the OP had said their washing machine was broken and they got somebody out to fix it. Fundamentally its likey the landlord should be responsible for the repair but if that situation I would again say no.

The machine might have been damaged by the OP. We have seen lots of posts on here due to underwire causing the problem ie tennants issue. So again if I were a landlord Id be refusing to pay.

You have to give the landlord an opportunity to recitify and appraise any issues. You cannot take it into your own hands thats one of the downfalls to renting, and if you do take it into your own hands you have to accept that your going to be out of pocket as a result.

iguana

D3PO wrote: »

I think it is a point that spans across any scenario. I would say the exact same if the OP had said their washing machine was broken and they got somebody out to fix it. Fundamentally its likey the landlord should be responsible for the repair but if that situation I would again say no.

It's not at all like that because a broken washing machine isn't an immediate serious health risk, a kitchen full of wasps is.

It's hard to find a situation which this equates to. Maybe a rattlesnake in the kitchen. It's not advisable for an untrained person to tackle several hundred wasps in their kitchen. It's not advisable to enter the kitchen in those circumstances. Your earlier suggestion of tackling it with wasp spray was very, very foolhardy and could have resulted in serious health problems for anyone idiotic enough to make such an attempt. If they are unable to enter the kitchen for several days the house becomes unusable. The OP had no choice but to act as soon as possible and it's not like she doesn't have an independent professional witness.

The real question is who is responsible for paying for the removal and that is down to who was at "fault" for the nest. The nest would only have been created in the spring so if the OP moved in to the house before that and the queen entered through an open door or window then that isn't the landlord's problem. (Morally anyway, I'm not sure about legally.) But if the OP is only in the house a few months or if the wasp's nest was accessed by the wasps through a needless hole in the property, like a hole for a cable/pipe which is too big or was left open after use, which is very likely as otherwise the OP should have noticed wasps entering and exiting through the kitchen itself, then it's the landlord's fault.

D3PO

iguana wrote: »

The real question is who is responsible for paying for the removal and that is down to who was at "fault" for the nest. The nest would only have been created in the spring .

This is the crux of an earlier question I asked. Its now the end of September. I find it inconcievable that there would be no visible indication of a nest until now.

Yes perhaps Im a bit too suspicious but for me its either an exaggeration by the OP which cant be verified one way or another by the landlord now as the issue has been dealt with

or perhaps its an issue that might have been much smaller and easy to deal in the spring and less costly if even costly at all which has escalated due to the lack of action by the OP.

subway

D3PO wrote: »

This is the crux of an earlier question I asked. Its now the end of September. I find it inconcievable that there would be no visible indication of a nest until now.

Yes perhaps Im a bit too suspicious but for me its either an exaggeration by the OP which cant be verified one way or another by the landlord now as the issue has been dealt with

or perhaps its an issue that might have been much smaller and easy to deal in the spring and less costly if even costly at all which has escalated due to the lack of action by the OP.

just want to quote you as you seem a bit mad today... overview: there are wasps, wasps have to be removed, if LL has to pay for removal of wasps then all other info is irrelevant really...


heres how i see it. unless the tenant keeps the wasps as pets, its a pest control problem.
pest control is health & safety and is the landlords responsibility under tenant law.

i think they should reimburse you for the 100eu under 2 circumstances:
1) you reported the wasps immediately and did nothing to encourage them such as keeping them as pets or leaving wasp food out
2) the 100eu is reasonable. i dont know the price of wasp nest removal so if its the going rate then fair enough. if its twice the price of a normal removal and you didnt ring around then the landlord should only cover half.

ring threshold to be sure and let us know how you get on

D3PO

subway wrote: »

just want to quote you as you seem a bit mad today... overview: there are wasps, wasps have to be removed, if LL has to pay for removal of wasps then all other info is irrelevant really...

Its not irrelevent thought. Lets take another example. If a tennant noticed a leak (landlords responsibility I think we would all agreed) and didnt report it at the time and the result was a bigger leak and need for replastering and a new carpet etc as a result. Who would then be responsible for the cost ? I would say the tennant.

so therfore information pertaining to the nest is very relevent or at least I think so anyway.

as for pest control issue I dont believe its as clear cut as they didnt have them as pets ergo its the landlords responsibiliy.

If you had mice but it was determined you got mice because you didnt empty bins, used to leave the back door open for prolonged periods, food onthe floor etc woudl that be the landlords fault ? Id say no it wouldnt be.

anyway my position is based on the fact the tennant got work done without the landlord approving it. Yes it might be a resonable price and it might be the landlords responsibility to fix (although not yet determined)

but they still have no right do get the work done then slap the landlord with a bill. Now Im getting into silly season with this next bit but its purely just to make a point.

what if the landlord says yes I agree this is not a tennant issue and I agree it needed to be dealt with but Im not paying for this as I didnt give you permission to get somebody in and Im a qualified pest control technician that could have dealt with this at no cost. Whos responsible for the bill then ? The tennant in my eyes all back to the original point they have no right to get work done at a cost without agreement from the landlord.

subway

i tried to cover that with the food part, there isnt really anything a tenant can do to encourage wasps in the way they could encourage rats.
a nest can build up over time without being noticed (have you ever had a wasp nest)
we had one before, it came and went in a week and for a day or two there were loads, it wasnt until a few days later we saw the nest, just seemed like the usual end of summer thing. lots of wasps coming out to play now becuase of the heat...

i disagree that the tenant is "slapping them with a bill", its work that needed to be done immediately and the LL was not around for a few days. that is, the work would have been done anyway and house was uninhabitable until it was done.

using your earlier example, if a water pipe burst (no fault of tenants) and the LL was away, should the tenant call a plumber himself or wait for him to get back? what if the house was on fire, should they call the fire brigage or wait for the LL

as to the last question, if the LL has a handyman they should provide details to the tenant in advance, thats what ours have always done.
if the tenant could not have reasonably known that the LL was licensed to remove wasp nests (e,g, he always calls rounf in an exterminator suit or drives a giant cockroach shaped van) then i think you are definiteyl being a bit silly...

iguana

D3PO wrote: »

but they still have no right do get the work done then slap the landlord with a bill.

They do if it's a safety issue which a kitchen full of wasps is. A landlord can't expect a tenant to endanger themselves or their family for any reason and if they are not contactable in an emergency it doesn't give them a justifiable excuse to shirk their financial duties.