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Moderating moderaters

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    #62
    Insect Overlord
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,893 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    denballs wrote: »
    As you all, moderaters...Admins.....continue to abuse me verbally......please remember...i wanted this closed yesterday to avoid an argument...i simply requested...that my request for this matter to be looked into be put on note.

    Nobody has abused you in this thread. :confused:
    denballs wrote: »
    I dont want to argue, I really did just want to put my opinion across that mods on occasion can be wrong in their decisions and that perhaps some measures could be put in place to improve the system.

    Nobody has ever denied that. You just failed to point out a wrong decision that was never rectified.
    denballs wrote: »
    I have only responded, in a way i think is fair...sure i might,ve gotten sharp with some of you...but only if you where beforehand abusive or ignorant towards me.

    As above. No abuse here.
    denballs wrote: »
    You all refuse to believe that the system can be improved, i dont agree ./..but i do respect your opinions even if you make fun of mine.

    The system can be improved, always. Trouble is, you're just shouting, "IMPROVE THE SYSTEM!" without actually giving us ideas for decent improvements.
    denballs wrote: »
    So as this thread has run its course and as the OP ..I formally request it be closed.

    You don't have that kind of authority here.


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    #63
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Shield wrote: »
    @denballs - If you're looking for a recent example of a moderator having been demodded, here is the most recent example that is available for all to see.

    In fairness to deballs, how long did that take?

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #64
    Shield
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 9,812 CMod ✭✭✭✭Shield


    K-9 wrote: »
    In fairness to deballs, how long did that take?

    A few days, but only because I noticed it flash past on the preview screen. It does happen, but not very many ex-mods choose to make it that public. I just thought that it was fair to point it out given it was something he asked to see for himself.


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    #65
    denballs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 837 ✭✭✭denballs


    RopeDrink wrote: »
    Can I just say that the one comment that stuck out (for me) was how the OP honestly believes the reaction to 'private handling' of matters between complaintents and the Mods/CMods etc results in the complaintent being 'bullied into submission'...

    Really? Thats a pretty scathing assumption and I really do sincerely hope you don't believe in that, or include tar & paintbrush with that theory.

    I won't pretend to know the system for a fact but I'm pretty darn sure PM's can be reported and being a Moderator, reported for abuse via PM, will not gain any leeway because of a voluntary title.

    Again, I'm unsure of the full system regarding Privacy/PM matters but I do know abuse via PM is also punishable so the notion of anyone, beit poster, Mod or Admin, 'beating' anyone into 'submission' through the PM system wouldn't get far with that sort of nonsense.

    I hav,nt said pm,s lead to bullying....ive said 2 or more mods privately discussing a complaint posted by a member is wrong.

    and i have said that many mods simply refuse to listen ...and bully the OP into submission.....they are seperate things


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    #66
    denballs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 837 ✭✭✭denballs


    Insect Overlord wrote: »
    Nobody has abused you in this thread. :confused:



    Nobody has ever denied that. You just failed to point out a wrong decision that was never rectified.



    As above. No abuse here.



    The system can be improved, always. Trouble is, you're just shouting, "IMPROVE THE SYSTEM!" without actually giving us ideas for decent improvements.



    You don't have that kind of authority here.



    please read the entire thread before commenting


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    #67
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    So... disagreeing with you and not giving you the answers that you want (but still taking the time out to explain stuff very clearly and in detail to you) = abusive, ignorant and bullying?

    I see...


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    #68
    castie
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 3,807 ✭✭✭castie


    denballs wrote: »
    I have carefully read the entire thread, it looks as if it has go9ne as far as it will go, from what i read the mod was in the wrong and when called on it both he and his superior where both rude and un-helpful.I would almost go as far as to say that they acted like bullies towards the member who tried to stay civil and calm.

    Above is where you insulted me and Dub13 without either of us commenting in this thread.
    Care to explain how that wasnt abusive to us or how we were abusive to you?

    I can also point out 2/3 more places where you insulted me on this thread just in case you say it was a once off.


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    #69
    jor el
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,713 ✭✭✭✭jor el


    denballs wrote: »
    I hav,nt said pm,s lead to bullying....ive said 2 or more mods privately discussing a complaint posted by a member is wrong.

    How exactly is it wrong to do this? You offer nothing but your opinion, which it seems that no one else agrees with, yet you keep insisting that the system is broken and in need of fixing. I ask you to say exactly why a private discussion of a complaint is inherently wrong. Don't speculate, give actual reasons here.

    Anything could happen in a private discussion, but you offer no evidence that it does. And of the tens of thousands of registered users on this site, not one of them is complaining that this is happening. Certainly not on the grand scale that you are suggesting when you say the most, or a lot of moderators are doing it. The only conclusion is that it isn't happening, that private discussions are not some big conspiracy against the great unwashed, that they help in resolving disputes, and that your continued accusations are completely baseless and warrant no further investigation.
    denballs wrote: »
    and i have said that many mods simply refuse to listen ...and bully the OP into submission.....they are seperate things

    Again, where is the proof that many mods refuse to listen and then bully complainants into submission? Without speculation and conjecture, give actual evidence of it.
    denballs wrote:
    The only thing i need to reply to about this, is that you are lieing if you say i was abusive to you at all...you were abusive towards me.....i showed the pm,s you never showed anything...the matter was closed without any other input besides your own

    You were infracted for a series of trolling and abusive posts, not directed at me, but against the forum rules none the less. I called you a troll because that's what you were doing at the time. You were then banned for an abusive remark sent by PM. The additional intention of the ban was to stop you from further trolling the forum.

    Following your contact with the Cmod of the category, you were told to take it up with the admins, as the infractions and ban were seemingly warranted. I never heard anything more about it after that, so can only assume you either took it no further, were happy with that outcome, or the admins took it no further.

    Those three threads you started were closed with no other input because, as you were told, it was the wrong place to put it. I also put nothing more in those threads because it was the wrong place to put it. There was plenty of other input in those threads, you just ignored it.


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    #70
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,175 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    denballs wrote: »
    As you all, moderaters...Admins.....continue to abuse me verbally......please remember...i wanted this closed yesterday to avoid an argument...i simply requested...that my request for this matter to be looked into be put on note.

    I dont want to argue, I really did just want to put my opinion across that mods on occasion can be wrong in their decisions and that perhaps some measures could be put in place to improve the system.

    I have only responded, in a way i think is fair...sure i might,ve gotten sharp with some of you...but only if you where beforehand abusive or ignorant towards me.

    You all refuse to believe that the system can be improved, i dont agree ./..but i do respect your opinions even if you make fun of mine.

    So as this thread has run its course and as the OP ..I formally request it be closed.
    I have a few objections to this post:

    -Nobody has abused you. Critique of Content != Abuse. If it was Abuse, that is Personal Abuse, you can report the posts. But disagreeing with your argument with counter-argument, is not abuse.

    -Of course mods can be wrong. Nobody has defended otherwise. As I said, that's why Feedforward helped construct the Dispute Resolution Procedure. It might be hard for a newer user to understand, but Pre-2010 the way Bans/Infractions got disputed was archaic in contrast to the current system of dispute resolution. In addition, others have already exemplified cases for you where a moderator was wrong, and overturned.

    -You aren't being as fair as you think. For example, expecting others not to tell you not to do something that they themselves would not do. As for people abusing you: we covered that; As for them ignoring you: is there any point or issue you have raised in this thread that has actually been ignored? I believe we've discussed them all at fair length up to this point, using fair methods of Critical Thinking.
    In terms of being fair you have to be able to consider the fact that what people are trying to say have merit, even if it conflicts with the opinions/views you had when you initiated this thread. A prime example of this is your view on private dispute resolution - one which seems to be ignorant of the idea that some disputes are preferred to be resolved private by the disputer. A hypothetical scenario: is it fair for someone to dispute a ban in the open from which they abused another member, by telling her that he hoped her baby ended up stillborn? Is it fair to publicize information about the attacked member? And conversely if a user felt he was being bullied in private he can always report the PMs, contact the office (hello@boards.ie), or in an extreme case, publicize the issue on the forums, for which there isn't much even an active admin could silence forthright: someone would end up reading any such thread before even the most conspiratorial deletion.

    -The System is Always Open for Improvement. Again this was the inception of Feedforward. To explain further one of the core philosophies of Feedforward is Forward Thinking. That is, if you really want to make a positive change to the system, it is almost completely unnecessary to argue about past issues. If we had to enumerate all of the fiasco threads that happened in feedback in the previous 10 years before creating the DRF, it never would have gotten done (and it still took 6 months!). So if you really want to suggest a change, please, do so without getting bogged down in the minutiae about what might have happened in the past. Any positive change to the system can be argued on it's merit alone, and should not need the backing of a previous 'disaster' to forward it along.

    -If you have a good idea, be my guest. Bear in mind though that my personal standards for discussion in FFW, are pretty damn high. That is, you won't be making accusations, dwelling on previous cases, or in other words looking Backward at anything that has happened before. Forward Thinking Discussion.


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    #71
    -Corkie-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,025 ✭✭✭✭-Corkie-


    Mods here do a great job IMO. There is no way I would give up my free time to do the work they do. Even this thread has had extremly long and helpful replies to the OP who seems to have a bee in there bonnet.

    I think the DRP forum is a waste of Mods time aswell considering the amount of time it takes up for everyone on this side reding through previous posts/pm`s etc etc.

    Thats my 2 cents anyway.


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    #72
    denballs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 837 ✭✭✭denballs


    jor el wrote: »
    How exactly is it wrong to do this? You offer nothing but your opinion, which it seems that no one else agrees with, yet you keep insisting that the system is broken and in need of fixing. I ask you to say exactly why a private discussion of a complaint is inherently wrong. Don't speculate, give actual reasons here.

    Anything could happen in a private discussion, but you offer no evidence that it does. And of the tens of thousands of registered users on this site, not one of them is complaining that this is happening. Certainly not on the grand scale that you are suggesting when you say the most, or a lot of moderators are doing it. The only conclusion is that it isn't happening, that private discussions are not some big conspiracy against the great unwashed, that they help in resolving disputes, and that your continued accusations are completely baseless and warrant no further investigation.



    Again, where is the proof that many mods refuse to listen and then bully complainants into submission? Without speculation and conjecture, give actual evidence of it.



    You were infracted for a series of trolling and abusive posts, not directed at me, but against the forum rules none the less. I called you a troll because that's what you were doing at the time. You were then banned for an abusive remark sent by PM. The additional intention of the ban was to stop you from further trolling the forum.

    Following your contact with the Cmod of the category, you were told to take it up with the admins, as the infractions and ban were seemingly warranted. I never heard anything more about it after that, so can only assume you either took it no further, were happy with that outcome, or the admins took it no further.

    Those three threads you started were closed with no other input because, as you were told, it was the wrong place to put it. I also put nothing more in those threads because it was the wrong place to put it. There was plenty of other input in those threads, you just ignored it.

    I would really rather this thread not be turned into a place for dredging up old issues....but as i still see you as wrong on that issue...i must defend my posision.

    I did decide to take it no further....my reason for doing so.......lack of caring about the issue

    First pm from you to me


    Dear denballs,

    You have received an infraction at boards.ie.

    Reason: Breach of Peace
    Quit the stupidity, maybe get some self respect of your own.

    This infraction is worth 1 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires. Serious infractions will never expire.


    ..
    ...
    ....
    -

    ..........is it common for you to call people stupid when giving infractions......are you supposed to do it?......


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    #73
    denballs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 837 ✭✭✭denballs


    I would also just like to point out the fact that this thread is only a few days old and already has almost 2000 views...with...very few posters.....so the subject must be of some interest to the general community.


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    #74
    El Weirdo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,647 ✭✭✭✭El Weirdo


    denballs wrote: »
    ..........is it common for you to call people stupid when giving infractions......are you supposed to do it?......
    You were told to quit the stupidity. You were not called stupid. There's a difference.
    denballs wrote: »
    I would also just like to point out the fact that this thread is only a few days old and already has almost 2000 views...with...very few posters.....so the subject must be of some interest to the general community.
    Have you ever noticed that people tend to slow down when passing the scene of an road accident?


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    #75
    denballs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 837 ✭✭✭denballs


    El Weirdo wrote: »
    You were told to quit the stupidity. You were not called stupid. There's a difference.


    Have you ever noticed that people tend to slow down when passing the scene of an road accident?

    yes the difference is that he is saying,... stop being stupid....not you are stupid...i find both as offensive.


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    #76
    BBDBB
    Registered Users Posts: 26,899 ✭✭✭✭BBDBB


    denballs wrote: »
    yes the difference is that he is saying,... stop being stupid....not you are stupid...i find both as offensive.

    the difference is one is a behavior, the other is your general level of intelligence. you can do something about the first in a heartbeat with very little effort. The second is just you and would take a lot of time and effort to change. Personally Id be more offended by the second for that reason.


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    #77
    jor el
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,713 ✭✭✭✭jor el


    denballs wrote: »
    Dear denballs,

    You have received an infraction at boards.ie.

    Reason: Breach of Peace
    Quit the stupidity, maybe get some self respect of your own.

    This infraction is worth 1 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires. Serious infractions will never expire.


    ..
    ...
    ....
    -

    ..........is it common for you to call people stupid when giving infractions......are you supposed to do it?......

    A little context is always appropriate.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67070592&postcount=831
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67077695&postcount=835

    Your posts were nothing short of the stupidest thing I had seen suggested in a long time, and the reference to getting self respect was a mirror of your own posts. This is what makes you a troll, and why no one listens to you, and I'm not going to waste any more time on you.


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    #78
    Zaph
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 47,305 ✭✭✭✭Zaph


    Ok, seeing as we're now dredging up ancient history this thread has run its course and I'm locking it. denballs, given that people have been very patient and have taken the time to explain things and you refuse or are unable to accept any of it I'm left with one of two conclusions. 1. Despite your protestations you are actually a bit on the slow side; or 2. You're a troll, and a pretty good one at that. I'm leaning towards the latter, so I suggest you start behaving before Prison turns out to be the only forum you can post in.


This discussion has been closed.
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