Sandhurst- BBC4 program

krissovo

cruasder777 wrote: »

There you go, in 1967 this guy was a 20 yr old Sgt in the BA. Ten years ago there was a guy in the paper who was 21, I know a guy who in the early 70s was a 21 yr old Sgt, unusual, but not impossible.

http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/parkes_witness.html

You really went out your way to find a guy who made Sergeant before 21 over 40 years ago, well done:p Do you any more recent examples? I have provided two already for certain trades in Signals and REME, I don't think there are any more.

krissovo

HellsAngel wrote: »

I actually agree with you, it's gone down hill since post #21, I have to admit my part in it, but claiming a 16 year old got a full HGV license ( in fact this individual also claims to have got a full bike license (no restriction), a track license and even a road roller license as I was an engineer. All at in one year at just 16 !!!!!! )

You obviously have an issue with me, I have proven that even today without the Junior or "boy service" you can get a full license when you are 17 in military. Many lads will complete various driving courses while waiting for continuation training or if they have been back coursed due to injury etc

OS119

HellsAngel wrote: »

And if they fail can they retake the course ?

as with all things, it depends...

in terms of injuries, you could be back-trooped if it wasn't serious, but meant that you weren't able to continue in that intake - say 6 months or so.

if it was more serious and meant a much longer lay off - a year/18 months - you might get a second chance, but i wouldn't bet on it (competition for places is enormous, and you'd be taking the place of someone who didn't have a healed broken leg/cruciate ligaments etc...), anything more serious than that would effectively rule you out.

there are mechanisms for dealing with injuries, but RMAS isn't the final arbitor on these issues - the individual regiments that sponsor the cadets would get the final word, so if you're an otherwise outstanding candidate going to Regiment/Corps that doesn't get many outstanding candidates, then you might well get the nod when an average candidate going to a over-subscribed Regiment/Corps would be told that his career is over.

pass rates fluctuate - some fail because they are poor candidates, some because they didn't understand what they were getting into, some because they undergo a life-changing process by going to RMAS, and shockingly, their lives are changed, and they decide that they don't want to do it anymore.

E2A: in terms of failing the course - outright 'you aren't good enough' failing - there is no actual rule about not being able to undertake the course again, however no regiment/corps would touch a RMAS fail with a 20ft burning stick, so you wouldn't get sponsored, and if no regiment will sponsor you, you can't attend RMAS.

El Guapo!

On the original topic of the thread.......just a reminder the latest episode of Sandhurst is on BBC4 tonight at 9pm

RMD

HellsAngel wrote: »

Sure, and I could get a date with Miss World :rolleyes:

If you want to make childish comments that's fine, all I know now though is there is no point in trying to engage you in a mature debate again as it seems beyond you.

HellsAngel

krissovo wrote: »

You obviously have an issue with me, I have proven that even today without the Junior or "boy service" you can get a full license when you are 17 in military. Many lads will complete various driving courses while waiting for continuation training or if they have been back coursed due to injury etc

RMD wrote: »

If you want to make childish comments that's fine, all I know now though is there is no point in trying to engage you in a mature debate again as it seems beyond you.

Any chance you might drop the 17 year old HGV license BS and get back to the OP kids ?

Fratton Fred

HellsAngel wrote: »

Any chance you might drop the 17 year old HGV license BS and get back to the OP kids ?

Maybe you could give us your opinion as to why the law in the UK specifically allows a 17 year old to drive an HGV for military purposes, if it is impossible?

Having said that, I once drove a DROPS lorry (about 100 metres) and that was nigh on impossible to drive, 17 or not.

Lemming

Dean09 wrote: »

On the original topic of the thread.......just a reminder the latest episode of Sandhurst is on BBC4 tonight at 9pm

Been watching these on BBC iPlayer and enjoying them thus far; finishsed pt.II lat night, and shall get around to pt.III tonight. Sadly I have no tv so will have to wait for pt.IV to go up on iPlayer.

How many episodes are there for the series does anyone know?

OS119

Lemming wrote: »

many episodes are there for the series does anyone know?

3 episodes.

words fail me - watch it and you'll see why...

LondonIrish90

I've just watched the third episode on iPlayer, and thought it was really good. Very good series as a whole that gave a great insight into a part of the British army we see little about really.

Rawhead

Enjoyed the series. Surely that lad who was destined for the household cavalry is now safely counting pallets in a logistics outfit away from guns and doing damage.

I was just wondering about the lad who was bound for the para's. You see him wearing the maroon beret with wings on, would he not have had to pass basic jump school or P company before wearing the wings.

pablomakaveli

Just watched the second episode there. Very good show. I couldn't understand why that lad joined the army if he had moral objections to killing someone.

Also why did a lot of the lads have childrens bedsheets? I missed the first epsiode so is there some reason for that.?

Local-womanizer

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Also why did a lot of the lads have childrens bedsheets? I missed the first epsiode so is there some reason for that.?

I think after a certain amount of time they are allowed home comforts, they probably like seeing the DS reaction to room inspections when they see Dora the Explorer sheets.

OS119

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Just watched the second episode there. Very good show. I couldn't understand why that lad joined the army if he had moral objections to killing someone.

Also why did a lot of the lads have childrens bedsheets? I missed the first epsiode so is there some reason for that.?

the bedsheets thing is tradition - the idea is to have the most childlike, innocent pit that you can. its to contrast with the reality that you are learning/training to become part of a operation that is neither childlike, nor innocent.

the young lad has enormous moral courage - far rarer than physical courage - to admit that while he believes that it can be 'right' to kill, he didn't believe that he could be the one to do it. sitting at home thinking 'i can do that' is rarely a good indicator of whether you can do it in real life - the Army very deliberately tests soldiers with bayonet practice because it forces them to ask themselves the question under much more realistic circumstances, and therefore gets a better answer.

with respect to the beret question - anyone attached to 16AA Brigade gets a red hat these days, the para wings on the right arm however are awarded only after the parachute course, which can only be done after P Coy, the Commando Course, or SF selection.

LondonIrish90

I thought that Eldridge girl was nailed on to get into the AAC before the old bloke in the corner gave his input!

cruasder777

OS119 wrote: »

the bedsheets thing is tradition - the idea is to have the most childlike, innocent pit that you can. its to contrast with the reality that you are learning/training to become part of a operation that is neither childlike, nor innocent.

the young lad has enormous moral courage - far rarer than physical courage - to admit that while he believes that it can be 'right' to kill, he didn't believe that he could be the one to do it. sitting at home thinking 'i can do that' is rarely a good indicator of whether you can do it in real life - the Army very deliberately tests soldiers with bayonet practice because it forces them to ask themselves the question under much more realistic circumstances, and therefore gets a better answer.

with respect to the beret question - anyone attached to 16AA Brigade gets a red hat these days, the para wings on the right arm however are awarded only after the parachute course, which can only be done after P Coy, the Commando Course, or SF selection.

When did 5 SCOTS AND THE Royal Irish oh and the Irish Guards (all part of 166AAbde) convert to a the Red Beret ?

Paras still training at the depot and potential officers wear the maroon beret with a blue backing behind the badge.

These are the only units who wear a maroon lid.

1st Battalion • 2nd Battalion • 3rd Battalion • 4th Battalion • Pathfinder Platoon


Royal Artillery 7th Parachute Regiment Royal Horse Artillery • 21 Air Assault Battery Royal Artillery


Royal Signals 216 (Parachute) Signal Squadron


Royal Engineers 23 Engineer Regiment (Air Assault)


Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers 8 (Close Support) Company


Royal Army Medical Corps 16 Medical Regiment • 144 Parachute Medical Squadron V

Lemming

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

I thought that Eldridge girl was nailed on to get into the AAC before the old bloke in the corner gave his input!

Must say I was very surprised by that given the rest of the interview panel seemed to think very favourably of her. Who was the old bloke in the corner; he wasn't in uniform if I recall yet seemed to wield enormous power in the matter, so much as to simply say "I don't think so. Case closed".

It was also interesting to watch her reaction after the bayonet course up in Scotland and the profound emotional impact it had on her at the [bayonet] course finish line.

neilled

Local-womanizer wrote: »

I think after a certain amount of time they are allowed home comforts, they probably like seeing the DS reaction to room inspections when they see Dora the Explorer sheets.

If a DS is suitably distracted by the bedsheets they may miss other "faults" in the room!

VinLieger

Lemming wrote: »

Must say I was very surprised by that given the rest of the interview panel seemed to think very favourably of her. Who was the old bloke in the corner; he wasn't in uniform if I recall yet seemed to wield enormous power in the matter, so much as to simply say "I don't think so. Case closed".

It was also interesting to watch her reaction after the bayonet course up in Scotland and the profound emotional impact it had on her at the [bayonet] course finish line.

Hints are dropped, the association with a certain political organisation plus the answer to the what would you change in history question

Lemming

VinLieger wrote: »

Hints are dropped, the association with a certain political organisation plus the answer to the what would you change in history question

Ah yes. I had forgotten about that bit of her interview.

OS119

Lemming wrote: »

Ah yes. I had forgotten about that bit of her interview.

i rather liked her answers, both in the nature of them and her willingness to say what she thinks, rather than what she thinks people want to hear.

integrity in a YO is vital, it is to Lt Eldridge's credit that she chose the path of integrity rather than another path, particularly when that 'other' path had been seen to be successful.

she may be a little unconventional, but i rather doubt that she'll stiff one of her soldiers because it would be a 'career win' to do so.

Lemming

OS119 wrote: »

i rather liked her answers, both in the nature of them and her willingness to say what she thinks, rather than what she thinks people want to hear.

I think I may have come across wrong. I had forgotten about her answers as being any sort of red flag, not that I was commenting on them personally either way. She struck me as extremely intelligent and articulate.

krissovo

Lemming wrote: »

Must say I was very surprised by that given the rest of the interview panel seemed to think very favourably of her. Who was the old bloke in the corner; he wasn't in uniform if I recall yet seemed to wield enormous power in the matter, so much as to simply say "I don't think so. Case closed".

It was also interesting to watch her reaction after the bayonet course up in Scotland and the profound emotional impact it had on her at the [bayonet] course finish line.

She was very interesting and if she gave those answers prior to the mid 90's she would have been place on special watch list at the very least and probably rejected by all regiments.That is probably why the old selection officer gave his response.

The regimental officer selection panel normally consist of a Staff officer (Col and higher), A late entry officer (Capt or higher who went through the ranks), and a LT Col or Major. There is also a retired officer or two in the panel whose main role is to forge a link with the past or tradition.

cruasder777

krissovo wrote: »

She was very interesting and if she gave those answers prior to the mid 90's she would have been place on special watch list at the very least and probably rejected by all regiments.That is probably why the old selection officer gave his response.

The regimental officer selection panel normally consist of a Staff officer (Col and higher), A late entry officer (Capt or higher who went through the ranks), and a LT Col or Major. There is also a retired officer or two in the panel whose main role is to forge a link with the past or tradition.

In the past it was far more difficult to get a commission. Candidates had to write a long essay on geo politics and under go an interview with a board while dining with them which included a university lecturer and a senior officer, everything about them was studied, from their accent, to political views to personality to table manners.

El Guapo!

So do you think it was purely the communism comment that lost it for her or was it more than that?

krissovo

Dean09 wrote: »

So do you think it was purely the communism comment that lost it for her or was it more than that?

I think it was a little more, she started with that her past/education/ and interests are politics and interested in serving the people through change.....WARNING sign number 1!. All through training soldiers are tought they are political tools and not politicians. She could be seen as using the military for a future political career.

Non conventional.........Warning sign number 2! The Army has a tried and trusted methodology and she could be seen as non conformist.

Marxist ideals.....NAIL IN COFFIN. Se said she would go back to Lenin and tell him how good pure communism was FFS and not to be corrupt.

Her OC clearly liked her as he knew her well and was singing her praises so he initially influenced the board but didnt get past the old timmer I think she could have been a good officer but possibly in a support arm rather than a tooth arm.

krissovo

cruasder777 wrote: »

In the past it was far more difficult to get a commission. Candidates had to write a long essay on geo politics and under go an interview with a board while dining with them which included a university lecturer and a senior officer, everything about them was studied, from their accent, to political views to personality to table manners.

What period of the past are you suggesting?

I would agree for the "class elitist" regiments but no so much for the regiments that do not have that history. The likes of the Royal Engineers and logistics have always selected on qualifications and skills/performance rather than class. For officer candidates anyone not up to the prerequisites are normally weeded out prior to Sandhurst.

Some of the elements you mention are still practiced (or were in the late 90's) for the late entry officer candidates. One of my interviews was with a Brigadier, Lt Col and a Retired Brigadier over a meal in the officers mess. I passed but I still had to attend elocution lessons as my Irish accent was considered to harsh.

iceage

cruasder777 wrote: »

These are the only units who wear a maroon lid........

On second thoughts...Can't be bovvered.