Making Spirits at home

Allrounder

If anyone is really interested in dispelling all the myths and nonsense about home distilling look in on stillsmart.co.uk (they're in the UK but have many members in Irl too) or homedistiller.org which is in the US and has members worldwide.

Homedistilling, while quite illegal, is perfectly safe and for the record a 25lt wash @ 15% will contain no more than 100ml of higher alcohols like Methanol, Esters, Fusil oils and these are removed at the beginning of the distillation process because they have a lower evaporation point than the remainder of the still contents.

Fermenting a wash over 15% will result in exponential increases in the production of fusils, esters and other congeners so anyone producing alcohol for consumption should avoid High Yield or Turbo ferments.

+ as a Joe or Mary Soap, you haven't a hope of getting a distillation licence in Ireland.

AR:)

rubadub

n97 mini wrote: »

as concentrating everything is not a drawback when you're looking to er... concentrate everything.

I have read thousands of posts on home distillation forums, I never once heard of a hobby distiller who wanted to concentrate everything. This is the point they were getting at.

Allrounder

I think your meds are not working for you and a few others here. Happy to discuss home distilling but lets keep it in this galaxy.

Allrounder:cool:

blackworld

I never have tried doing it at home, but I have taste it, my auntie got to make it.
It taste quite wonderful.

Allrounder

Let me be the first to say "Happy Christmas Everybody":p:p:p

AR:cool:

rubadub

Allrounder wrote: »

I think your meds are not working for you and a few others here. Happy to discuss home distilling but lets keep it in this galaxy.

Not sure if that was directed at my post? if it was I have no idea why.

Allrounder

No, not you, rubadub, the guy who thought distilling was about wanting to concentrate everything and other myths, LOL

AR:cool:

AntoSRFC

Didnt want to start a new thread but was looking to try out some of the spirit kits for a change.

Is it really as simple as adding 6kg of brewing sugar in 25 litres of water then adding some this stuff for a day or two. http://www.homebrewwest.ie/alcotec-48-dual-turbo-741-p.asp

Have many people tried this yet? Really just looking for a nuetral enough flavoured brew at around 20%.

Would probaly add some vodka essence for some flavour. But at what stage and quantity would you need to add? http://www.homebrewwest.ie/alcotec-swedish-vodka-1320-p.asp

Is it much more different to doing beer i.e. tempeture etc.?

Thanks for your help

Allrounder

OK AntoSRFC, sorry you didn't get an answer to your questions. I have been very busy lately and haven't been here for a while.

On your first Q; no, it's not that simple. Alcotec Turbo yeast is designed to be distilled when fermentation is completed and the wash cleared. Under no circumstances can you drink the product at end of fermentation. Also, the manufacturer's claims of 48hr fermentation are to be taken with a lot of salt. More like 5 days.:rolleyes:

On your 2nd Q; Mny people use similar producs but these are only meant for distillation where it is legal to do so and it's not legal in Ireland. This type of fermentation is designed to produce what is essentially a wine although the taste is quite off-putting because only white sugar is used. Once fermentation is completed the product, known as a 'wash', is then distilled to extract the neutral alcohol from the 'wine'. This neutral spirit is then diluted to 40% ABV, filtered and then flavoured according to your own taste.

3rd Q; The use of essences to mimic the flavour of commercial spirits is not terribly successfull. Vodka is a neutral spirit, odourless and tasteless, so the idea of adding an essence to an already neutral spirit, from a still, to produce an odourless and tasteless copy of Vodka is laughable. Similarly, you cannot add an essence to a bad tasting wine like product and expect it to make even a reasonable copy of a commercial Vodka.

4th Q; The first part of the process is more like making wine but using only white sugar and yeast. But, again the product is not intended to be consumed after fermentation and would make you quite ill if you did.

Unless you can distill the wash don't go near these products.

Visit http://www.stillsmart.co.uk/forum/index.php for more information on how those products are used.

Again, sorry you had to wait so long for an answer.

AR:cool:

P.S. I know all this stuff because I was gullible once tried making the stuff by fermentation alone - disaster - I flushed the lot after I found out it was really only intended for distilling.

oblivious

Allrounder wrote: »

I
Homedistilling, while quite illegal, is perfectly safe and for the record a 25lt wash @ 15% will contain no more than 100ml of higher alcohols like Methanol, Esters, Fusil oils and these are removed at the beginning of the distillation process because they have a lower evaporation point than the remainder of the still contents.

Methanol has lower boiling (than ethanol) pint hence it the first cut, but Fusel oils/alcohols and other such volatile hydrocarbons have a higher and come of in the tail running's

like a lot of things its safe when the person knows what they are up to

AntoSRFC

@ Allrounder thanks for such a detailed response

Yeah a few things were not really adding up especially the vodka essence and thankfully you have saved me from an epic fail:D

So I gather from that there is no way of creating a drinkable brew around the 20% alc mark by fermentation alone?

Allrounder

For Oblivious: the point of that post, in the context it was posted, was that any dangerous substances are removed during the distilling process and I used a certain amount of licence in simplifying/truncating an explanation of how substances are separated/removed during the distillation process. It was not intended as a masterclass but was to clear a misunderstanding by another poster and, again, in the context that it was used in. Hope I've cleared up your misunderstanding!:)

For AntoSRFC: Afraid not. Anything you can make as that strength would taste pretty awful and doesn't bear thinking about. Sorry!:(

AR:cool:

rubadub

Allrounder wrote: »

Alcotec Turbo yeast is designed to be distilled when fermentation is completed and the wash cleared. Under no circumstances can you drink the product at end of fermentation.

But, again the product is not intended to be consumed after fermentation and would make you quite ill if you did.

I have never heard this warning before. It is intended to be distilled but are you inferring it is somehow dangerous?

Allrounder wrote: »

the manufacturer's claims of 48hr fermentation are to be taken with a lot of salt. More like 5 days.:rolleyes:

True, you can turn 48/24 hours into 4.8 and 2.4 days! They can withstand high ferment temps and some distillers might prefer this.

Allrounder wrote: »

Vodka is a neutral spirit, odourless and tasteless, so the idea of adding an essence to an already neutral spirit, from a still, to produce an odourless and tasteless copy of Vodka is laughable.

On many distilling sites you will see it defined as that. There are usually 2 types of hobby distillers, the "chemists" who do not care about the fermentation/flavour side too much and are mainly interested in their still operation. The sign of a well constructed and well operated still is the distinct lack of smell & taste in your product, a good clean spirit will require little or no carbon treatment, another sign of correct setup & procedures is the lack of a "congener hangover".

The other group would be the whiskey distillers, who pay more attention to their wash and do not want a neutral spirit. Some will be in both groups.

I don't think copying the vodka taste is laughable though. Like whiskey makers, I read absolut vodka will retain their heads & tails and blend quantities of them back to the clean middle cut, to add some flavour back to the neutral vodka. So not everybodies definition of vodka is the same, this could stem from commercial factories doing it on the cheap and not distilling correctly and being reluctant to discard heads & tails. So they have ended up redefining peoples perceived ideas of what a vodka actually is. Just like cadburys use cheaper raw materials/methods and have convinced people that it is real chocolate. Some may have grown to like this offtaste in vodka (and chocolate).

A good example of a "clean" vodka is skyy vodka, which is good for cocktails and was developed by chemists as a "congener hangover free vodka". Absolut's flavoured range seems to be a far cleaner product so I expect they might not add back any heads/tails.

I got "vodka essence" in a kit before, vile smelling stuff that I did not use.

AntoSRFC wrote: »

So I gather from that there is no way of creating a drinkable brew around the 20% alc mark by fermentation alone?

There are
http://www.homebrewwest.ie/prohibition-high-alcohol-liqueurspirit-kits-79-c.asp
You would have to work it out to see if it is worthwhile, it might be cheaper to buy proper spirits.

Though you can not legally distil without a licence you can treat alcohols. So you could buy cheapo lidl vodka and carbon treat it and mature it with toasted oak chips etc.

Allrounder

Interesting input Rubadub.:)

I have never heard this warning before. It is intended to be distilled but are you inferring it is somehow dangerous?

Turbo's Dangerous? No, but Turbo Yeasts produce very high levels of congeners. In addition, the wash from a Turbo smells and tastes foul. Initial fermentation is only the first stage of using those products. The second & third stages, distillation and filtration, are where the product is made suitable for consumption and if you can't complete these two stages then don't use Turbo Yeasts.:rolleyes:

They can withstand high ferment temps and some distillers might prefer this.

Higher Temps! Yes, Turbos can often withstand higher temps but this is not a good thing. High temperature and high levels of alcohol will stress and kill yeast cells and produce high levels of congeners. High levels of dead yeast cells will also taint the wash. The best and cleanest fermentation is done at low temp. It takes longer but it's better in the end.:)

If Turbo Yeasts and high temp ferments were good all the major distilleries would be using them. They are a poor compromise for those who cannot wait.:p

I don't think copying the vodka taste is laughable though.

On the Vodka matter, we'll have to agree to differ on that. As you said yourself "Vodka essence - vile smelling stuff" so it's hardly going to make already vile tasting Turbo Yeast wash into nice tasting Vodka substitute.:rolleyes:

As for those Prohibition Kits, the end product from these taste like sickly sweet, cheap, wine-like liquid that tastes nothing like the product descriptions on the packaging. You will get about 18-20% alcohol content but is that all you want? Regardless of taste?

Bottom line - if it looks to good to be true it probably is. Most liqueurs are made using distilled spirits so anything else is a poor compromise.

Don't get me wrong. My only purpose here is to caution people that you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear. I hate to see people caught out by creative marketing and having to throw the product, and their money, down the drain because it really doesn't do what it says on the tin. I know because I was foolish enough, once upon a time, to try these things and never got even a palatable result.

So you could buy cheapo lidl vodka and carbon treat it

Not so sure how effective the carbon treating of cheap Vodka would be. Unscrupulous distillers who produce cheap-cheap vodka probably don't remove all of the Foreshots, Heads or Tails and I suspect such products are only distilled once. If this is the case, and I think it's a fair assumption, then the only way to remove those unwanted components is by further distillation.:)

Got to go - Cheerio!

AR:cool:

stevenmu

Allrounder wrote: »

As for those Prohibition Kits, the end product from these taste like sickly sweet, cheap, wine-like liquid that tastes nothing like the product descriptions on the packaging. You will get about 18-20% alcohol content but is that all you want? Regardless of taste?

I saw a great article before about using various fruit combos to flavour vodka, and was considering using prohibition or similar kits to do the same thing. Do you think they'd be unsuitable for this type of use?

Not so sure how effective the carbon treating of cheap Vodka would be. Unscrupulous distillers who produce cheap-cheap vodka probably don't remove all of the Foreshots, Heads or Tails and I suspect such products are only distilled once. If this is the case, and I think it's a fair assumption, then the only way to remove those unwanted components is by further distillation.:)

Mythbusters actually did a test of this, they lined up a range of dirt cheap to top end vodkas and included a dirt cheap vodka that they filtered themselves. They taste tested them themselves and got a professional taster to try too. IIRC the mythbuster team picked the filtered cheap vodka as being the best, the expert picked the top end but had the filtered cheap one in second (out of 5 or 6). Of course that's just a taste test and says nothing about how you'd feel the day after drinking a lot of it.

Allrounder

Using good quality Vodka and fruits soaking in a suitable sealed jar can produce some beautiful results but again the "Prohibition" type kits will leave you quite disappointed.

The difference between good and poor quality Vodka is the amount of congeners such as Methanol, Esters and other undesirable substances in the spirit. With poor quality Vodka you'll know all about it in the morning and who knows what damage they can do to your brain, liver and kidneys, etc.

AR:cool:

n97 mini

rubadub wrote: »

I have read thousands of posts on home distillation forums, I never once heard of a hobby distiller who wanted to concentrate everything. This is the point they were getting at.

Look up eisbock, which involves freeze "distillation".

Allrounder

Don't follow that.:(

So-called 'freeze distillation' is actually a crude and inefficient method of separating alcohol from the other components in a liquid. It has nothing to do with concentrating anything!!

AR:cool:

n97 mini

Allrounder wrote: »

Don't follow that.:(

So-called 'freeze distillation' is actually a crude and inefficient method of separating alcohol from the other components in a liquid. It has nothing to do with concentrating anything!!

AR:cool:

I think you read it wrong. It's a method of removing the water in the form of ice. Removing water = concentration.

Allrounder

You cannot "concentrate" ethanol. Removing the water from a liquid containing ethanol by freezing = separation, similar to what happens in distillation.

Having said that, I understand where you're coming from.
AR:cool:

Seaneh

Either way it works pretty well for eisbicks