advice on running a farm

amacca

what is the best place to go if you are looking for advice on the best way/how to run a farm profitably etc?

teagasc?

anyone know any good private advisors in leinster?

are there any other agencies that could help?

epfff

Wouldnt be a fan of teagasc have meet 2lazzy for every 1good adviser.lot of them live in dream world.
Best advisers I met were self made farmers but remember you must adjust all advice to suit yourown situation (money land ect.)
you will become yourown best adviser.just dont go to deep into anything.
here can be as good as any

agriking101

talk to Teagasc, ask for them to do an Options plan, they mightn't charge you for that, it would be a good starting place for you.

kenny d

In my experience whatever Teagasc tell you to do if you do as near to possible the exact opposite then you won't be too far away !

amacca

kenny d wrote: »

In my experience whatever Teagasc tell you to do if you do as near to possible the exact opposite then you won't be too far away !

a satisfied customer I see!

Oh well, I'll see what they have to say.....gotta start somewhere.

pakalasa

Learn from the best and avoid the rest.;) Avoid the moaners too. It's a national pastime these days.

Good loser

Amacca that's a big question you've asked!

Are you starting from scratch? How much good land?

Farming is much easier with plenty money. The early years will be a steep learning curve.

Read the Farmers Journal cover to cover every week.

amacca

Good loser wrote: »

Amacca that's a big question you've asked!

Are you starting from scratch? How much good land?

Farming is much easier with plenty money. The early years will be a steep learning curve.

Read the Farmers Journal cover to cover every week.

appprox 100 acres ...... 60 good a further 20 boggy but useable...20 irredeemable imo...but not interested in putting forestry on it

startin from scratch more or less...grew up on a farm so not afraid of work

but would work smart rather than hard

eg: whats this creative use of stock relief I've heard about?...incentives available to a young trained farmer starting off people would recommend etc...organisations people would recommend I join like say macra


dont have plenty of money (the exact opposite actually).....hoping to make a modest amount though........wondering at the moment whether to buy a cheap second hand tractor to save money or buy a decent one and depreciate it against profits and come out better in the end this way with a more reliable piece of machinery to boot


basically I'm clueless but willing to learn + pay for advice if its coming from a source I can be fairly confident I can trust

I need a starting point...would like to avoid the non-profitable trial and error phase or at least not make too much of a balls of it starting off:D

TUBBY

Amacca, I am dealing with Teagasc in Tullamore at the moment and the two lads that call out are deadly. If that your area PM me and I can give you contact details. You say Leinster so another private advisor in the Longford area, I would recommend highly that I have dealt with before and he is very practical. PM me for either if interested.
Cheers
Tubby

MOSSAD

amacca wrote: »

appprox 100 acres ...... 60 good a further 20 boggy but useable...20 irredeemable imo...but not interested in putting forestry on it

At lest check out the forestry option for the bad land- could be worth a small guaranteed fortune each year for 20 years.

amacca

MOSSAD wrote: »

At lest check out the forestry option for the bad land- could be worth a small guaranteed fortune each year for 20 years.

tks for the advice.....I need all the help I can get but in the case of forestry


I just cant do it....I made a promise and I'll keep my word.

greenfingers89

amacca wrote: »

I made a promise and I'll keep my word.

bad idea, limiting yourself straight away, planting the worst part could be the best option to get you off to a good start by bringing in an income but also leaving you more time to worry about the 80/60 acres

amacca

greenfingers89 wrote: »

bad idea, limiting yourself straight away, planting the worst part could be the best option to get you off to a good start by bringing in an income but also leaving you more time to worry about the 80/60 acres

bad idea .....financially.............probably/more than likely.

bad idea when it comes to keeping your word....no...the land may be mine but I made a promise...........you're nothing if you don't have a word imo.

I would only do it if it was a matter of survival and hang the financial consequences otherwise.

epfff

On the advice thing
Be careful of those doom and glume guys most of them are affraid someone will make a quid before them
Start small dabble in everything find your feet
Do yourown thing
Be careful of over successful farmers most of them leave out a few of their costs to make things look beter
I.started with low quality cheep stock snd am slowly working my way to better stuff.
Not as financially painfull when you make mistakes
I would also say keep costs down down
Do you need a new tractor
Al I have is one that starts every time I need it

MOSSAD

that could be 5-6k /year you would be getting, tax-free, making a valuable timber crop in the meantime, and improving the land via drainage, shelter and if you can get a decent mix of trees, even haze/rowan and alder here and there you'll be fulfilling an environmental requirement for farming. Other benefits are shooting rights, firewood for yourself, stakes and maybe even some christmas trees.

Good loser

Amacca

Seems to me you've a long way to go.

To get some capital could you rent it, or part of, for a year or two to get some cash.

It would take years to make €200 per acre net and what good is that?

If the farm was up and running with buildings and machinery paid for things would be a lot easier.

Virtually all farmers nowadays depend for a huge % of their net income on the Single Farm Payment (SFP).

I assume you are not eligible for any of this?

Could you get a farm related job nearby - relief milking, fencing, helping where a farmer is sick for example where you would be learning while working?

The SFP system is going to be replaced over the next few years - probably 2014. Take care to follow the debates and to ensure you qualify then.

Get the cheapest tractor you can - probably better without for a year or so.

greenfingers89

amacca wrote: »

...you're nothing if you don't have a word imo.

I would only do it if it was a matter of survival.

wasnt trying to convince you to break your word, just saying it was a bad idea to make the promise because of an ideology someone may have had against trees, they are another crop at the end of the day.... i hope it doesnt come to u being forced into it as a matter of survival, wouldnt be a nice way of getting into anything

amacca

greenfingers89 wrote: »

wasnt trying to convince you to break your word, just saying it was a bad idea to make the promise because of an ideology someone may have had against trees, they are another crop at the end of the day.... i hope it doesnt come to u being forced into it as a matter of survival, wouldnt be a nice way of getting into anything

@ everyone tks guys for the advice etc so far.....I'm finding this very helpful in a lot of ways....general consensus so far seems to be keep input costs as low as possible.....I was more swaying towards the cheap tractor route

@ greenfingers :thank you for the help I appreciated genuine advice...by way of explanation< the promise was a condition of getting the opportunity..I regard it as: dont make the promise...run the risk of getting nothing....make the promise and get 80 acres + carry the other 20 (see what you can do with it) ..... even if the ideology makes no sense ill still keep my word + doubt it will come to a survival matter...its still an opportunity and very little comes without strings attached

amacca

Good loser wrote: »

Amacca

Seems to me you've a long way to go.

total beginner ... so basically I have all of the way to go when it comes to getting it up and running...have a long way to go when it comes to knowledge/experience also

Good loser wrote: »

To get some capital could you rent it, or part of, for a year or two to get some cash.

It would take years to make €200 per acre net and what good is that?

was wondering if it would be unwise to rent in the event that the new european scheme depends on how much stock you have or land area farmed in some sort of reference year type scenario

I do have a part time job as well so maybe I could set losses against income for a year or two starting up.....that was why I was considering getting a decent tractor and setting it against any profits...put losses against tax on the job and get some of the tax back until the place starts turning a profit

Good loser wrote: »

If the farm was up and running with buildings and machinery paid for things would be a lot easier.

no machinery apart from a topper! (bizarre - but thats what I've got)

farm buildings not a problem though.......have no slatted shed but do have a big floored one and a hayshed.....lots and lots of shed space so no capital investment needed in that area yet imo

Good loser wrote: »

Virtually all farmers nowadays depend for a huge % of their net income on the Single Farm Payment (SFP).

I assume you are not eligible for any of this?

honestly I don't know....that's partially what I feel I need the advice for.....I am whats classed as a young trained farmer so I should get preferential entry into schemes if I'm eligible in the first place I think

are there any farmers that dont depend on SFP now? what area would they be in if they exist?

49801

on the tractor question I def would not spend alot of money. get something that older and reliable that has been looked after. something that was common and well known.
wish we had kept the DB995 tractor loader.:o

Good loser

was wondering if it would be unwise to rent in the event that the new european scheme depends on how much stock you have or land area farmed in some sort of reference year type scenario

That may be important - not quite sure how it will work but it will not be based on stock numbers. Keep an eye on Journal for updates.

I do have a part time job as well so maybe I could set losses against income for a year or two starting up.....that was why I was considering getting a decent tractor and setting it against any profits...put losses against tax on the job and get some of the tax back until the place starts turning a profit

Don't worry about expenses. In your situation you should have loads of them to set against tax for years.

farm buildings not a problem though.......have no slatted shed but do have a big floored one and a hayshed.....lots and lots of shed space so no capital investment needed in that area yet imo

That's good.

honestly I don't know....that's partially what I feel I need the advice for.....I am whats classed as a young trained farmer so I should get preferential entry into schemes if I'm eligible in the first place I think

I understood you weren't trained. Do you mean trainee?
Don't know much about these schemes - recommend Teagasc for these.
They could probably put you on a training scheme -green cert?

are there any farmers that dont depend on SFP now? what area would they be in if they exist?

The SFP is paid to all who qualify and who have eligible land - regardless of their other income(s). It can vary from €10 to €1,000 per hectare depending on the size of their farm operations around year 2000.

In general have you decided what kind of farming to do? Outside dairying only three main options - sheep, cattle and tillage. Tillage is handy for part timers. Best guide is what farm was used for before. Will you live on the property?
I have no direct experience but like the idea of Christmas trees - a 6/8 year payback. Say 6 acres. You'd need an adviser.

Maggie McGaggie

Amacca, are you going into cows or dry stock? You seem to be used to the ins and outs of the farm. What are your buildings like, be very careful what advice you take here. You want to do a good job that will last a long time but some people would have you believe that everyone will be milking double the number of cows by 2015 and that you will need massive buildings but at the end of the day most farmers are already heavily stocked. This is just an example, but by and large most changes in farming are incremental and if you keeping working away at it you will be able to stay on the ball.

Username John

I would advise doing some homework before you go to Teagasc or any advisor.

The biggest thing to consider IMHO is what are your interests? What would you like to do with the place?
This is prob the most important question in my mind. I know you have to look at things financially as well - but as if you dont have the interest, you wont be movitiated, and wont be driven to constantly improve things...

This is especially important on wet, grey cold days (like today) when you have to go out and check the sheep, in case that one little fcuking runt of a lamb has gotten under the wire again... :mad:

Once you have a direction you want to go in - you can start asking more questions. I have found you will get VERY good advice on here.

Whilst its the not good to hear when you are mad to rush out and do everything, its maybe the best advice to get - "start small"
You can build it up over time.

Someone else offered very good advice on a previous thread, if buying animals "but the best stock you can afford"

Re expenditure, I would advise looking to see what you get in return - a tractor may be necessary, but spending 5k vs 10k when both buys might do the same job... It means you have 5k less to spend on something which might make you more money... eg. livestock
As Good Loser says - dont worry re expenses, and buying things JUST to offset against tax. Expenses seem to increase in an almost magic way

Best of luck with it whatever you decide to, and let us know how you get on.

amacca

Good loser wrote: »

I understood you weren't trained. Do you mean trainee?
Don't know much about these schemes - recommend Teagasc for these.
They could probably put you on a training scheme -green cert?

I have the equivalent of what used to be called the green cert or is called it now??.....180 hrs + 3rd level qual + other bits and bobs............................I found the 180hrs a very useful course for the theory of what you should be doing in lots of different areas (many areas I probably wont be going into unfortunately) but I got it at least 5 years ago now so its a bit hazy to say the least and I'm sure some of it is probably not current....besides, theory is a lot different from the reality of being presented with something you almost need to build from the ground up

tbh I still consider myself a complete beginner/novice despite this but the fact I have it puts me in the "young trained farmer" bracket...i.e: under 35 with a farming qualification or its equivalent so it should mean if there are schemes on offer I have a slightly better chance of entry into them than other applicants (in theory: not counting my chickens obviously)

Good loser wrote: »

In general have you decided what kind of farming to do? Outside dairying only three main options - sheep, cattle and tillage. Tillage is handy for part timers. Best guide is what farm was used for before. Will you live on the property?

wont live on the property but its only a couple of miles away from me so its easy enough to get down there + will be able to be there fairly regularly.

don't think the land is quite good enough for tillage (a good portion has not been ploughed - 30 acres of it was tillage before but its not 100% ideal I would think - will ask an advisor for his/her opinion on this) .........dairying is just too work intensive imo unless I go into it full time and I would prefer to keep the job at the moment tbh............sheep require really good fences and while the lands boundaries are fine for cattle a lot of money would have to be spent on upgrading fences for sheep so I could sleep at night ....so they are out for the moment I think

that leaves cattle I suppose......sucklers or drystock.......and I'm thinking drystock may be the way to go for the moment.


.

agcons

To locate a private adviser go to www.acaireland.ie As with teagasc the quality of the service will depend on the individual you are dealing with and their interests and area of expertise.
You should also get yourself a good accountant who is used to dealing with farmers. While it is highly unlikely you will have any profit for a number of years a good accountant is a vital asset to any business.
Probably the best way to get either an accountant or a consultant is by asking the neighbours or other farmers who they use.
Like other posters I think you should select an enterprise you are interested in and will enjoy working at. The farm will be a hobby for you as long as you keep the day job so it is vital in the long run that you enjoy the work.
If you are buying breeding stock I think you should buy as good stock as financially possible, it takes a long time to raise the genetic profile of a herd.
Re the forrestry now is not the time to be planting land anyway, due to the upcoming changes in CAP. Its all very uncertain so you will need to keep a close eye on developements over the next year or two. Also re the poor land it may become important that it is eligible as forage area under the new schemes. This is something you will need to discuss on site with your consultant.
If you are interested in the organic route then you could do worse than attend one of the 25 hour courses on offer over the winter.
anyway best of luck whatever you do
Re machinery my opinion is spend the bare minimum, now is not the time for flash or luxury items. All major jobs can and should be contracted out

Good loser

that leaves cattle I suppose......sucklers or drystock.......and I'm thinking drystock may be the way to go for the moment.

Seems to me it's the best for your circumstances. Stock can be built up gradually while you learn the business. Could you get someone to take 20/30 acres of first crop silage or hay off you next year as otherwise you will have too much grass. With understocking the quality of grass declines. Don't bother reseeding until you have plenty stock.

Would recommend you buy 10-15 calves (under €200 a head!) to learn the business from the bottom. Feed with milk powder. Get a thermometer and watch carefully for pneumonia and coccidiosis.

Older stock are expensive currently but you don't have much option. The farm could probably carry 25 stock on the land over the Winter without supplementary feed.