Luas security. Who vets these guys?

Logical Fallacy

Mister Dread wrote: »

The uniforms are disgraceful. They may as well go the whole hog and give them swastikas on the armbands. Their job should not be to intimidate.

You must be very easily intimidated.

Mister Dread

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

You must be very easily intimidated.

I'm not intimidated.

4leto

Uniforms are pageantry and I think the more intimidating the better,

I really don't understand why people are complaining about good security.

Logical Fallacy

Mister Dread wrote: »

I'm not intimidated.

So what is your issue with the uniforms?

Black pants, black shirts, black stab vest with STT written on the back.

Who do you feel is being intimidated by them?

A Primal Nut

AskMyChocolate wrote: »

Lost in translation, could have a bit to do with it. Btw, as a barman, I would always be on the side of the bouncers/security staff, it's just, that, all they had to do ,was to say "Keep them hidden lads, or put them back in your bags" and they didn't say it.

The point of the thread was that it would never have happened, never mind escalated, if it wasn't for the Luas staff.

The lads were bothering no-one and would have been off in two minutes with no-one worrying or in a lot of cases being any the wiser that they wre having a drink.

As me Dad used to say, "Get over heavy ground as light as you can"

Just my opinion

Choco

How are the security supposed to know they are nice lads? It's obvious they might act more civilised when security were in view so from the security guy's point of view they were in the right. I'm not saying these guys would have caused any trouble - by your description I'm sure they wouldn't have. But the security guys aren't to know that. We've all been bothered and annoyed by drunken idiots on the luas and its better they are heavy handed than just let them way with it. Most people they let away with it would probably be ok, but there will always be one or two who cause trouble.

Mister Dread

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

So what is your issue with the uniforms?

Black pants, black shirts, black stab vest with STT written on the back.

Who do you feel is being intimidated by them?

Compare the Gardai to these two rentacops.
http://www.luas.ie/ga/400.html

That sort of uniform has no place on private security on a public rail line.

Logical Fallacy

Mister Dread wrote: »

Compare the Gardai to these two rentacops.
http://www.luas.ie/ga/400.html

That sort of uniform has no place on private security on a public rail line.

Once again, why not?

You are not really giving any actual reasons.

stovelid

I see it the other way. I like the idea of some big bloke in a Kevlar vest walking around because it's visible security on a line that was plagued with nutters.

If you find the mere sight of that offensive, you're doing something wrong or you're a teeny with an unfortunate hard on about "regulations" and "authority" that still lives with your auld one.

Mister Dread

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Once again, why not?

You are not really giving any actual reasons.

The same reason that police don't wear aggressive uniforms. (green in germany) They are not meant to intimidate as they are there to serve the public.

"in there distinctive black uniform acts as visible deterrent " from the luas site.

4leto

When I lived in London the tube system have an actual police force" London Transport Police" on the grounds we haven't the Guards to spare this seems like a very happy compromise.

Logical Fallacy

Mister Dread wrote: »

The same reason that police don't wear aggressive uniforms. (green in germany) They are not meant to intimidate as they are there to serve the public.

"in there distinctive black uniform acts as visible deterrent " from the luas site.

It is not the role of a security guard to serve the public...it is the role of a security guard to ensure the safety of the customers of the company they work for.

It's normally best to have the security detail dressed in something that makes them stand out...often times it is just the presence of the team itself that will stop trouble before it starts.

I still don't understand why someone dressed all in black is considered intimidating.

Chucky the tree

Mister Dread wrote: »

The same reason that police don't wear aggressive uniforms. (green in germany) They are not meant to intimidate as they are there to serve the public.

"in there distinctive black uniform acts as visible deterrent " from the luas site.

Security guards are menat to serve the public. There job is to to do what their private secoter employers want them to do.

Mister Dread

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Security guards are menat to serve the public. There job is to to do what their private secoter employers want them to do.

It's a public facility.

4leto

Mister Dread wrote: »

It's a public facility.

But a private company, a pub is a public facility and they employ private security.

Mister Dread

Irish rail are a private company?

Next.

Logical Fallacy

Mister Dread wrote: »

Irish rail are a private company?

Next.

Irish Rail do not operate the Luas service.

Next.

4leto

Mister Dread wrote: »

Irish rail are a private company?

Next.

Yeah and??

There are lots of private security companies working in and around the civil/public service.

AnonoBoy

I've seen my fair share of things on the LUAS. I've seen people taking drugs, throwing cans, fighting, getting sick everywhere.

I've seen more blood than I care for on public transport.

The security on the trams are supposed to look big and intimidating. They're there ideally to prevent trouble so people can get home safely.

Some lads got a can taken off them and the OP got a dirty look from the security. Cry me a river. Cry me a big f*cking middle class sob story river.

Seriously. You're not allowed drink on the LUAS - the security kicked them off. They're not there to be polite, they're there to be professionals and it sounds like they were. If they'd boxed their heads in it would have been a different story but they didn't.

The big bad security man took away the booze and then gave you a bad look? Boo-f*cking-hoo! People need to seriously toughen the f*ck up. :rolleyes:

Mister Dread

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Irish Rail do not operate the Luas service.

Next.

What are you on about?

Fatneck

Doesnt matter how nice the lads were, it is illegal to drink on public transport. If the lads are old enough to be going to the pub theyre old enough to know the law.

Mister Dread

4leto wrote: »

Yeah and??

There are lots of private security companies working in and around the civil/public service.

And it woudl be unacceptable to have them going around like the ****ing expendable, roids and all.

A ****ty pub can dress its door monkeys however they like but not a major public transport facility.

Gummy Panda

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

It is not the role of a security guard to serve the public...it is the role of a security guard to ensure the safety of the customers of the company they work for.

It's normally best to have the security detail dressed in something that makes them stand out...often times it is just the presence of the team itself that will stop trouble before it starts.

I still don't understand why someone dressed all in black is considered intimidating.

Yeah, just need to look at Jervis st stop. All the junkies were sitting well away from the machine with a sad face on them. I realised why when I saw two STT security guards built like tanks patrolling the stop. Makes customers feel safer as well.

Logical Fallacy

Mister Dread wrote: »

What are you on about?

I thought you were implying Irish Rail operate the Luas.

Being honest, you haven't brought a single valid point to the thread...and you just seem to have a dislike of security staff so i will leave you to your own devices i reckon.

4leto

Mister Dread wrote: »

And it woudl be unacceptable to have them going around like the ****ing expendable, roids and all.

A ****ty pub can dress its door monkeys however they like but not a major public transport facility.

This is an English speaking board,

The luas is not ran by Irish rail or the state.

Mister Dread

The luas is run by irish rail.

I think the issue here is with the red line. I've no experience of this line myself so don't feel the need to have paramilitary types escort me on my rail journeys. They should have never built that junkie express. The places it serves have little need for it.

Logical Fallacy

Mister Dread wrote: »

The luas is run by irish rail.

It's not.

Jarren

Mister Dread wrote: »

And it woudl be unacceptable to have them going around like the ****ing expendable, roids and all.

A ****ty pub can dress its door monkeys however they like but not a major public transport facility.

No need for that

DEFTLEFTHAND

Scary looking dude in special ops uniform and shades told me not to smoke in the bus/luas shelter outside Heuston today. I got the impression that if I didn't comply I was going to be cuffed and led away for interrogation.

Gummy Panda

Mister Dread wrote: »

The luas is run by irish rail.
.

Its run by Veolia Transdev Ireland iirc

Logical Fallacy

The give away that it's not run by IR is that it's reasonably efficient and runs at a profit.

4leto

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

The give away that it's not run by IR is that it's reasonably efficient and runs at a profit.

LOL
One of the funniest thing I read on this board, :D:D:D

lastlaugh

I've never really used the Red Luas line but I've seen those security lads get on the Green line a few times.

They look quite militaristic, but I'm not sure that's necessarily such a bad thing.

By the sounds of it, the Red Line is plauged with scumbags hassling ordinary people and creating a threatening atmosphere.

The next best thing to Batman is security that will not take any sh!t from anyone so that the message is sent out that scumbaggery will not be tolerated.
(Or nice folk who drink cans)

AnonoBoy

Mister Dread wrote: »

They should have never built that junkie express. The places it serves have little need for it.

Absolute bullsh*t.

Sand

I dont see why the security guys are expected to sit down and have a Dr. Phil session with the lads to explore why they were incapable of following very simple, basic rules like "Dont Drink On the LUAS". Theres a rule (some might call it basic manners...drinking on the bus or LUAS is just knackerish), the lads in question broke it. They were ejected, and got a later tram, wiser for the lesson.

The LUAS operators want their service to feel safe for all their customers. Loutish behaviour, no matter who carries it out - makes others feel less safe. Tolerating some loutish behaviour gives permission for other loutish behaviour to happen.

Veolia have a series of rules for the service, and they have a security team to enforce them. If people dont feel able to abide by those very, very simple rules then feel they should free not to use the LUAS. Nobody, including the other passengers, will miss them.

paulosham

mikemac wrote: »

A very good chance those STT guys were ex-army from their own country

So they weren't turned down by anyone

What makes you think they weren't Irish? The original post doesn't make any reference to where they were from.

Victor Meldrew

I take the Green line to work and i have seen some pure scumbags on it on several times.

I have seet the ticket checking staff evict 4 complete knackers off the luas.

Generally I consider the Luas to be really well run, and a good dose of Fascism is welcome.

I for one, welcome our 200lb, 6'5" aryan race overlords on the 25 min trip from st stephens green tosandyford...

lastlaugh

Victor Meldrew wrote: »

I take the Green line to work and i have seen some pure scumbags on it on several times.

I have seet the ticket checking staff evict 4 complete knackers off the luas.

Generally I consider the Luas to be really well run, and a good dose of Fascism is welcome.

I for one, welcome our 200lb, 6'5" aryan race overlords on the 25 min trip from st stephens green tosandyford...

The Green line doesn't have the same calibre of retrobate as the Red line.

Mister Dread

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Absolute bullsh*t.

Go through each of the stops. Dump after dump. How many people living in those places are going into decent jobs or shops in the city to justify the spend on their luas line. It's not politically correct but it's the truth.

lastlaugh

Mister Dread wrote: »

Go through each of the stops. Dump after dump. How many people living in those places are going into decent jobs or shops in the city to justify the spend on their luas line. It's not politically correct but it's the truth.

Ah here, you must be takin the mick at this stage.

x in the city

AskMyChocolate wrote: »

I would be particularly interested in hearing Makikomi's and other doorstaff/bouncers' opinions on this.

I was coming home on the Luas tonight and I got talking to a bunch of lads who were on their way in to CFJ's. They couldn't have been a nicer bunch of lads. Two from Tipperary, two from Kildare.

They were drinking a can but not bothering anyone. Next thing, these two black-clad thugs started treating them in the way that some knackers should be treated.

They grabbed their cans and threw them off the Luas. I said to them "There's no need for that". They looked at me, and I swear, if it wasn't for the fact that I'm a middle-aged man, they'd have thrown me off too.


The standard of security in this state, and the quality of security guards is slipping badly. Whatever happened to the bouncers who had nothing to prove, didn't have a chip on their shoulder about being turned downed by the guards/army, and used to be capable of cuddling lads out of a pub before trying to start a fight?

Choco

drinking on public transport is for knackers.

they were dead right to f**k them off it.

Id like to see our police look as tough as these security guys, They have a DONT MESS WITH US look about them. Id feel safe with them around. They look way tougher than our garda

But, I do agree on the other hand, they could be very bullish..But if they help keep crime down, Im all for them. Wish they were at Tara Street station. The amount of junkies trading smack there is un real.

sock puppet

x in the city wrote: »

drinking on public transport is for knackers.

I don't know a single person that hasn't done it.

AnonoBoy

Mister Dread wrote: »

Go through each of the stops. Dump after dump. How many people living in those places are going into decent jobs or shops in the city to justify the spend on their luas line. It's not politically correct but it's the truth.

Loads do.

I live on the Red Line. I've a great job.

You're just being a snob. An incorrect, fact-ignoring snob.

CoolHat

leggo wrote: »

I'm guessing that you haven't done it for a living, then.

The opposite is actually true. If someone is acting in an intimidating manner, you have to come down on them harder or else...guess what...they'll know they are intimidating you and will walk all over you.

If you tried doing it for a living, yourself, then you'd know you welcome soft touches that you don't have to use a firm hand with. Because you've spent all day dealing with the former and just want a bit of peace.

You also have to weigh up your options and take your personal safety into account, of course, so softly-softly is always Plan A for a good security guard.

But the description you've outlined with your previous two posts shows exactly that you don't have a clue what mentality security have on a day-to-day basis.

I call the big one bitie.

Logical Fallacy

Mister Dread wrote: »

Go through each of the stops. Dump after dump. How many people living in those places are going into decent jobs or shops in the city to justify the spend on their luas line. It's not politically correct but it's the truth.

And yet the Luas is run at a tidy profit and provides plenty of jobs and unlike every other method of public transport in the country the Luas doesn't need help from the government in the form of cash to pay it's bill.

So the money was money very well spent.

Come on, lets have your next misplaced argument.

Mister Dread

So veolia built and paid for the luas did they?

Next.

Logical Fallacy

Mister Dread wrote: »

So veolia built and paid for the luas did they?

Next.

Nope, it was paid for in the majority by the EU ERDF fund.

Next please.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Solnskaya wrote: »

Bouncers and security guards treat different types of people differently. If you look normal, ie not a cnut, they will feck you out/hassle you. If you are a youngster, they will treat you like dirt in the course of throwing you out. If, on the other hand, you appear wealthy, they will be unfailingly polite. If, like me, you look like a handful, they will not lay a hand on you. As a teenager/in my 20's, I scattered a lot of snot-smugglers around various nightclubs, often semi-wrecking the place. Never once was I "thrown" out- I was asked, politely, if I would please leave and that the cops were on the way, but not once did a bouncer attempt to lay a finger on me in any way.(I would have rammed it into their eye if they did:))

lol... Seriously thats funny.. Funnier than that Mister Dread troll.

Mister Dread

Great, another hard man boards mod to tell us the real side of being a doorman.

tony 2 tone

Mister Dread wrote: »

The same reason that police don't wear aggressive uniforms. (green in germany) They are not meant to intimidate as they are there to serve the public.

"in there distinctive black uniform acts as visible deterrent " from the luas site.

What? Like priests?