Luas security. Who vets these guys?

Raging_Ninja

If you are caught drinking in the US anywhere other than a licensed premises or on your own property you get to spend the night in a cell. Depending on the state you're in you appear in court a few days later, get fined and have to pay court fees.

Seems to work well.

FetchTheGin

billymitchell wrote: »

Care to expand on this a bit??

They wear an all black uniform, black vest, trousers etc.

At least I hope that's what the OP meant.:pac:

tiernanobrien

smash wrote: »

You seem like an upstanding citizen with a lot to contribute to society.

if it wasnt for people like me they'd be out of a job. frankly i know the rules are there so i dont mind if i get put off the luas but i dont litter or cause anyone any bother so i dont see the problem. thats like saying everyone who has ever drank on the street broken the speed limit in their life in there life is an 'upstanding citizen'

FetchTheGin

tiernanobrien wrote: »

their life in there life

:pac:

RussellTuring

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

If you are caught drinking in the US anywhere other than a licensed premises or on your own property you get to spend the night in a cell. Depending on the state you're in you appear in court a few days later, get fined and have to pay court fees.

Seems to work well.

As in it stops people drinking in public?

mossyc123

4 Country lads on there way to Coppers... every Luas should have them for sheer entertainment value.

Love eavesdropping on excited semi-drunken conversations of people on the way into town.

Makes the commute pass much quicker IMO.

The Security Staff should act with a bit of discretion and say to the lads

"no drinking on board, put the cans in your bag, thanks"

If they are sound lads like the OP described they'd say sorry and put them away and there'd be no need to kick them off.

The foreign guys employed should be able to distinguish between threatening/intimidating behaviour from scumbags and a few normal lads havin a few cans and minding their own business.

One of the things I like about Gardai/Bouncers and authority figures in this country is that they act with discretion and use a common sense approach to enforcement of rules.

A much better approach then the sh!te you get when overstepping the mark just a little in the US or Australia IMO.

Raging_Ninja

RussellTuring wrote: »

As in it stops people drinking in public?

drinking on luas = drinking in public.

4leto

RussellTuring wrote: »

As in it stops people drinking in public?

It would definitely stop some of them so that would be a start.

What is this about. We have a few long threads about people unanimously complaining about the lawlessness and general anti social behaviour from scumbags.

Then we have this a tread complaining about some scummers (I know but doing no harm) openly disobeying rules on our public transport and being chastened for their anti-social behaviour.

The security staff where absolutely right to throw them off. Who the fkuc do they think they are that the rules and conventions don't apply to them. The ****.

mossyc123

4leto wrote: »

Then we have this a tread complaining about some scummers (I know but doing no harm) openly disobeying rules on our public transport and being chastened for their anti-social behaviour.

The security staff where absolutely right to throw them off. Who the fkuc do they think they are that the rules and conventions don't apply to them. The ****.

The OP said they actually weren't scummers, just normal lads.

They came up from Tipp/Kildare so mightn't have even been aware of the no drinking on the Luas rule.

Your average Garda would just say put away the cans, not throw them off without any warning.

Drink is served on a lot of Inter-City train services you know...

4leto

mossyc123 wrote: »

The OP said they actually weren't scummers, just normal lads.

They came up from Tipp/Kildare so mightn't have even been aware of the no drinking on the Luas rule.

Drink is served on a lot of Inter-City train services you know...

Not scummers but behaving like scummers.

You are not allowed to drink on the luas, its there on a sign in big bold letters.

So what do these normal nice lads do,,fkuc the rules, lets have a drink.

I will put it this way, what if I wanted to smoke on lets say the back of the Luas with no=one near enough to get secondary smoke.

Would that be OK.

Coriolanus

Honestly, I wish Dublin Bus would hire a few of them too.

mossyc123

4leto wrote: »

Not scummers but behaving like scummers.

You are not allowed to drink on the luas, its there on a sign in big bold letters.

So what do these normal nice lads do,,fkuc the rules, lets have a drink.

I will put it this way, what if I wanted to smoke on lets say the back of the Luas with no=one near enough to get secondary smoke.

Would that be OK.

Expelling smoke into the air affects the environment around you.

Drinking does not.

Breaking a rule does not equal behaving like a scummer.

Behaving like a scummer on the Luas is acting in a threatening/intimidating manner or causing damage to the carriage.

Drinking a can is not scummy behaviour IMO.

If you think it is you've lived a very sheltered life.

4leto

mossyc123 wrote: »

Expelling smoke into the air affects the environment around you.

Drinking does not.

Breaking a rule does not equal behaving like a scummer.

Behaving like a scummer on the Luas is acting in a threatening/intimidating manner or causing damage to the carriage.

Drinking a can is not scummy behaviour IMO.

If you think it is you've lived a very sheltered life.

But if a scummer was drinking a can then that would be different is that what you are saying.

And its not whether you are peacefully drinking a can or not its a question of rules, so why did these feel it was OK for THEM to stick their fingers up at the rules and say fukc it, I want to drink a can rules or not.

I am all for zero tolerance whether you are a nice lad or even Gandhi, you are not allowed to drink on the Luas and that should be all there is to it.

mossyc123

4leto wrote: »

But if a scummer was drinking a can then that would be different is that what you are saying.

And its not whether you are peacefully drinking a can or not its a question of rules, so why did these feel it was OK for THEM to stick their fingers up at the rules and say fukc it, I want to drink a can rules or not.

I am all for zero tolerance whether you are a nice lad or even Gandhi, you are not allowed to drink on the Luas and that should be all there is to it.

Yes, if the scummer was acting in a threatening/intimidating manner.

Gardai and bouncers know the difference, security staff from Central/Eastern Europe don't seem to.

Im all for common sense.

We'll agree to disagree.

RussellTuring

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

drinking on luas = drinking in public.

Thanks but that doesn't answer my question at all.

4leto wrote: »

It would definitely stop some of them so that would be a start.

People who drink in public and nothing else aren't really a problem, are they? Surely it's those who behave aggressively or threateningly who are the problem and then it would seem to me that they should be held accountable for this behaviour instead. Punishing every drinker for a few bad ones isn't right.

4leto

RussellTuring wrote: »

Thanks but that doesn't answer my question at all.



People who drink in public and nothing else aren't really a problem, are they? Surely it's those who behave aggressively or threateningly who are the problem and then it would seem to me that they should be held accountable for this behaviour instead. Punishing every drinker for a few bad ones isn't right.

People who routinely break the law are a problem, that is one of the things wrong with this country our blatant petty lawlessness.

This is one of the reasons our politicians get away with so much and scummers seem to have a free reign at the moment.

flahavaj

I wish the security was more heavy handed on the Luas tbh, the level of scum using the line that passes Heuston is intolerable these days.

4leto

flahavaj wrote: »

I wish the security was more heavy handed on the Luas tbh, the level of scum using the line that passes Heuston is intolerable these days.

Yes
A zero tolerance approach. It would be better for the vast majority who don't flaunt the rules and don't drink or cause a nuisance on the Luas.

RussellTuring

4leto wrote: »

People who routinely break the law are a problem, that is one of the things wrong with this country our blatant petty lawlessness.

This is one of the reasons our politicians get away with so much and scummers seem to have a free reign at the moment.

So your reason for having a law against drinking in public is to punish people who break the law of drinking in public? Are people who drink in public but do nothing else really a problem?

arybvtcw0eolkf

AskMyChocolate wrote: »

I would be particularly interested in hearing Makikomi's and other doorstaff/bouncers' opinions on this.

Tbh I think Logic Fallacy has covered everything.

Except your question re. vetting - they're vetted by the Guard's, but they get their licence from the Private Security Authority who are another useless FF qwango - they're useless and the licence is mean's feck all tbh. The PSA has done nothing to clean up the security industry except to get money for government coffer's.

RichieC wrote: »

I think it is bad policy to allow bouncers to wear all black. It gives them a psychological power trip that I think is detrimental to the service they are providing.

Large reflective yellow jackets should be the order of the day. Also hand held walkie talkies.

Those lose reflective yellow jackets (I think they still have them in Crystal) are a very bad idea - they're too lose, can be undone very quickly and I'd hate to be dragged around in one.

As regards wearing black, I'm mixed on that one.

In the old days we used to wear 'black & whites' - ie, black pants, white shirt and dickie bow and people said that was aggressive looking.

Were I work now we're encouraged not to look like bouncers, and thats mostly grand - I like wearing jean's, hiking boots and shirt.

But a few weeks ago I was assaulted, from behind too, when I went to break up a fight.. The guy who hit me, I got a few kidney punches (very damned sore) swore blind he didn't know I was a bouncer because I was wearing a red check shirt - so I'm back in black!.

RussellTuring

Annabel Tinkling Trademark wrote: »

Tbh I think Logic Fallacy has covered everything.

Except your question re. vetting - they're vetted by the Guard's, but they get their licence from the Private Security Authority who are another useless FF qwango - they're useless and the licence is mean's feck all tbh. The PSA has done nothing to clean up the security industry except to get money for government coffer's.




Those lose reflective yellow jackets (I think they still have them in Crystal) are a very bad idea - they're too lose, can be undone very quickly and I'd hate to be dragged around in one.

As regards wearing black, I'm mixed on that one.

In the old days we used to wear 'black & whites' - ie, black pants, white shirt and dickie bow and people said that was aggressive looking.

Were I work now we're encouraged not to look like bouncers, and thats mostly grand - I like wearing jean's, hiking boots and shirt.

But a few weeks ago I was assaulted, from behind too, when I went to break up a fight.. The guy who hit me, I got a few kidney punches (very damned sore) swore blind he didn't know I was a bouncer because I was wearing a red check shirt - so I'm back in black!.

Would you be in favour of some kind of security workers agreeing to some kind of industry-approved jacket or clear marker to avoid both the aggressive look and misunderstandings like the one you mentioned?

arybvtcw0eolkf

RussellTuring wrote: »

Would you be in favour of some kind of security workers agreeing to some kind of industry-approved jacket or clear marker to avoid both the aggressive look and misunderstandings like the one you mentioned?

No. And I think the guy who hit me was bluffing anyway.

I think the uniform worn by those lads on the Luas and the DART looks the business, and is very functional.

Look guys, I'll put it like this.. Sometimes a little aggression isn't an entirely bad thing - some times I jokingly refer to it as "peace through superior intimidation" (I'll add a smilie)

A few people here on AH would know me from the door I work, I'm pretty laid back and easy going (I believe in earning my money the easy way), but I can assert myself and appear very aggressive very quickly & almost 100% of the time its just pretend, it gets a point across to a drunken idiot very quickly & puts 'em back in their box.

And in the next heart beat I can be calm, shaking hands and reassuring the person they're not barred, or I'm not pissed off etc - its play acting and far better than the good old days of the 'black & whites' when someone was more inclined to get a slap to drive home a point.

yoyo

Good old double standards
Lads in tracksuits on the Luas drinking cans, obviously scum should be kicked off, lads well dressed going in for a night out sure let them drink whats the harm.
Having lived in Temple Bar for a while and witnessing many fights, its the lads who are well dressed the majority of the time the Gardai are arresting (and its happened many evenings not even late at night). If the security guys took the well those lads are well dressed and leave them be approach, and one decides to start attacking someone they would surely be responsible?
For all they know these lads may have been lashing back the cans like no tomorow back in a house somewhere, may not appear to be tanked, but why would they take the risk?
Also I know a lot of people would be anxious with people drinking on public transport, It doesn't bother me much but I have been on the Dart before where a group of lads were heading in to town drinking cans and were being loud and annoying.

Nick

Lollipops23

mossyc123 wrote: »

Drinking a can is not scummy behaviour IMO.

If you think it is you've lived a very sheltered life.

I don't give a rat's arse whether they were drinking cans of Dutch or martinis- the security staff are well within their rights to chuck them off. They knew it was against the rules (they'd have to be living in a cave not to) and giving out about the security staff (who were just doing their jobs) makes it so much harder for them to enforce when it comes to the type of scum they encounter on a daily basis.

You couldn't pay me enough to do what they do and they're streets ahead of a lot of bouncers on clubs that i've come across in my time.

daveyeh

It's a pity Dublin Bus don't employ this type of security. The Luas is a far superior service, helped no doubt by a zero tolerance of incidents like this.

So what if they were 'nice lads', they shouldn't have been drinking on the Luas. I've no sympathy for them.

4leto

I am only recently getting the Luas (my car was burned out about 2 months ago) as a matter of fact 6 weeks ago was my first time on it.

I am totally impressed with it, its always on time, clean, comfortable and the security is visible.

So I don't understand why people are giving sympathy to some "nice" lad who flagrantly broke the rules.

curlzy

Mammanabammana wrote: »

I had actually started to reply properly to your earlier post but then when I saw this I decided I have no interest in dealing with that kind of arrogance. The OP took my points on board (as did others) and thanked my post; he then replied in a civil manner and I thanked his post. When you learn to address me in a civil manner, instead of using phrases like the above and telling people to "grow up", I'll reply properly to you too.

I don't think Mammanabammana knows how AH works, either that or they're a teacher.:D

allibastor

while i dont agree with overly heavy handed people who are on a power trip, as the landlord would say " the rules is the rules, and they is the rules". i am sure these lads were really nice and friendly and all that, but i dont think that the Veolia have come up with mind-reading guards yet, unless these eastern europeans have some special talents we dont know about.

how are they to know what these lads are like, should the hold an interview to each person who breaks the rule to make sure they are nice lads. does anyone rember the incident outside club annabel a few years ago? i think 3 nice young lads kicked another lad to death outside there.

the rule is there for a reason. too many times in this country people break the rules and dont get any punishment for it. you need to have the zero tolerance policy on all people who use the service for it to be effective. they cant just say" you lads look nice tonight, keep on drinking there".

daveyeh

4leto wrote: »

I don't understand why people are giving sympathy to some "nice" lad who flagrantly broke the rules.

Maybe they're 'nice' lads too, the OP was drunk at the time of the incident.

Typical Irish arseholery, "Ah sure they're grand, sure don't they speak like me and come from the same rednecked parish and they're only out for the laugh. Begorrah and be-jaysis."

mikemac

I wish Dublin Bus 78A had some STT staff