The ESB And Eirgrid can go f*ck themselves - Merge

Chuck Stone

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Delighted that Ms Treacy is free and sense has prevailed.

I'd say most reasonable people are also happy she's free.

Very brave of her to still be defiant.

Obstinate and foolish, perhaps ill advised, I would say.

The sheep in this country could take a leaf from her tree book

If everyone took the same stance as her the cost of supplying electricity would likely be not worth it anywhere outside a city.

Micky Dolenz

Chuck Stone wrote: »

If everyone took the same stance as her the cost of supplying electricity would likely be not worth supplying to anywhere outside a city.

Or big companies would have to do the right thing and not the easy way out for them.

Because lets face it, if we stood up for what we believed on a national stage, things would change. We wouldn't be sitting in our homes typing on the interweb by candle light.

marienbad

loremolis wrote: »

There is over 10,000 km of overhead high and medium voltage electricity line in this country.

You mention a few km in a city environment and that's supposed be a counter argument?

I didnt say they couldn't do underground at all, I said they weren't equipped or manned to do it on a large scale.

Keep thinking.

But loremolis this is not ''underground on a large scale'' as you put it , so the ability to do '' a few km in a city'' more than qualifies them to do it in this instance.

Might I ask you what you think is their motive for being so contrary ? Why in your view are they turning 20km into 32 km and all overground ?

By the way it is unreasonable to keep demanding facts and figures but never providing any of your own. I think every poster on this thread regrets that this lady went to jail and all would love to see a compromise of some sort.

Chuck Stone

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Or big companies would have to do the right thing and not the easy way out for them.

Do you really think that having to fight this lady is the easy way out in this case?

Because lets face it, if we stood up for what we believed on a national stage, things would change.

Perhaps. I don't see how this relates to my response though.

We wouldn't be sitting in our homes typing on the interweb by candle light.

Huh?

Chuck Stone

loremolis wrote: »

By turning a 20 km route into a 32 km route they've increased the cost of the line by another 50%.

Do you have some evidence for this?

Monty Burnz

loremolis wrote: »

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/woman-faces-jail-for-preventing-esb-access-to-her-property-519739.html

Long version:
Quote:
An Offaly woman could be jailed over her continued refusal to comply with High Court orders allowing the ESB and Eirgrid access to her land to complete the construction of a power line.

Today at the High Court the ESB and Eirgrid lodged contempt proceedings against Ms Teresa Treacy of Woodfield House, Clonmore, Tullamore.

That's very interesting. I'm still waiting for proof for this claim...

loremolis wrote: »

The ESB brought a motion before the courts to have her imprisoned.

Micky Dolenz

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Do you really think that having to fight this lady is the easy way out in this case?



Perhaps. I don't see how this relates to my response though.



Huh?

Yes, if they concede to Ms Treacy, they'll have to do it every where. A precedent will be set for others to follow.

If everyone took the same stance, things would change. We would not be sitting in our homes without power as you suggest.

Monty Burnz

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Or big companies would have to do the right thing and not the easy way out for them.

The ESB, of all companies, bend over backwards to be ethical an fair in their dealings with the public. I have first hand experience of this in a different capacity.

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Because lets face it, if we stood up for what we believed on a national stage, things would change. We wouldn't be sitting in our homes typing on the interweb by candle light.

You know, we just might.

loremolis

Chuck Stone wrote: »

loremolis wrote: »

By turning a 20 km route into a 32 km route they've increased the cost of the line by another 50%.

Do you have some evidence for this?

The route and increased distance of the line was clearly shown on the primetime program on Tuesday. Still on RTE player.

If you want to check it then the maps are online, Offaly co. co. Website.

Based on the extra 10km or so, there would be about 50% of a cost increase between the shorter and longer route.

Monty Burnz

loremolis wrote: »

The route and increased distance of the line was clearly shown on the primetime program on Tuesday. Still on RTE player.

If you want to check it then the maps are online, Offaly co. co. Website.

Based on the extra 10km or so, there would be about 50% of a cost increase between the shorter and longer route.

So you are now claiming that they extended the route an extra 12km just for a laugh? And that this isn't the cheapest, most efficient and least disruptive route possible?

You know that they have professional engineers and surveyors who work on these routes for a living, right?

Micky Dolenz

Monty Burnz wrote: »

The ESB, of all companies, bend over backwards to be ethical an fair in their dealings with the public. I have first hand experience of this in a different capacity.

You know, we just might.

May I ask in what capacity?

Monty Burnz

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

May I ask in what capacity?

I'd rather keep that private.

Micky Dolenz

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I'd rather keep that private.

Vested interest?

Monty Burnz

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Vested interest?

Yes, I sell huge pylons.

joseph brand

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Or big companies would have to do the right thing and not the easy way out for them.

Because lets face it, if we stood up for what we believed on a national stage, things would change. We wouldn't be sitting in our homes typing on the interweb by candle light.

Wrong!

The ESB have stated that having power lines overhead is the most practical solution in terms of access in case of damage. Anybody can understand this I'm sure.

Overhead lines can be fixed in a day or two. Underground lines can take weeks. So, overhead lines are cheaper to lay, maintain and repair. Therefore, far better for the customer and the ESB obviously.

Now, I don't believe anyone wanted this woman to go to jail. She's not exactly dangerous or anything like that. But, she wanted to go, to prove her point, being the obstinate woman that she is. Now she has got her point across, not just to the ESB but the whole country. I suppose it wasn't her doing.
With all the problems here, why don't we all focus on this womans few trees, (which will be re-planted). :rolleyes:

Micky Dolenz

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Yes, I sell huge pylons.

Business good these days?

Monty Burnz

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Business good these days?

It's buzzing.

Micky Dolenz

joseph brand wrote: »

Wrong!

The ESB have stated that having power lines overhead is the most practical solution in terms of access in case of damage. Anybody can understand this I'm sure.

Overhead lines can be fixed in a day or two. Underground lines can take weeks. So, overhead lines are cheaper to lay, maintain and repair. Therefore, far better for the customer and the ESB obviously.

Wrong, because the ESB says so? I see.

In fact, once a cable is buried very little can go wrong with it, unless it is hit by someone digging etc.

Great savings are to be hand as maintenance becomes less of an issue. Do you know how much the ESB spend on weather damage every year?

This becomes nearly a non issue once lines are ran underground.

joseph brand

Monty Burnz wrote: »

It's buzzing.

You must be ex-static.

Sorry, I'm not trying to 'plug' your business.

Micky Dolenz

joseph brand wrote: »

You must be ex-static.

Sorry, I'm not trying to 'plug' your business.

Put a sock (et) in it :P

wee truck big driver

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Yes, if they concede to Ms Treacy, they'll have to do it every where. A precedent will be set for others to follow.

If everyone took the same stance, things would change. We would not be sitting in our homes without power as you suggest.

there would be power but only the rich could afford it people like ms. treacy with her 100 acre farm

Chuck Stone

loremolis wrote: »

The route and increased distance of the line was clearly shown on the primetime program on Tuesday. Still on RTE player.

I just watched primetime and it isn't an as-the-crow-flies route but the direct route was not feasible due to dwellings and historical sites.

So let's look at this.

There is a direct as-the-crow-flies route and yet they decide to take an alternative route through multiple farms which is more expensive due to it's added length .

Why would they choose this route which is more expensive than the as-the-crow-flies route in length of cable terms?

1. Because it's the route of most consideration for dwellings and other sensitive sites

2. Because they want to create work for those building it (you've suggested this)

Let's just say it is #2 i.e. they want to create work and fleece the tax-payer.

This is a fanciful notion because why on earth would they allow this woman to rumble their devious plan? Why not add yet more work and go around her farm adding yet more work for the lads?

Logic fail.

Micky Dolenz

wee truck big driver wrote: »

there would be power but only the rich could afford it people like ms. treacy with her 100 acre farm

I'm guessing you don't know many farmers. Loads of them are struggling. Asset rich, cash poor mean anything to you? And even then a lot of their assets ain't worth a whole lot depending on location and accessibility.

Like the begrudgery though, nice touch.

joseph brand

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Wrong, because the ESB says so? I see.

In fact, once a cable is buried very little can go wrong with it, unless it is hit by someone digging etc.

Great savings are to be hand as maintenance becomes less of an issue. Do you know how much the ESB spend on weather damage every year?

This becomes nearly a non issue once lines are ran underground.

You're so right. Sure, what would they know? It's only a sideline business for them.

FREE the Offaly One.

loremolis

Monty Burnz wrote: »

That's very interesting. I'm still waiting for proof for this claim...

Are you serious?

Do you think that the ESB didn't know she would be imprisoned for contempt of court when they brought contempt of court proceedings.

They knew exactly what they were doing i.e. having her jailed.

Micky Dolenz

joseph brand wrote: »

You're so right. Sure, what would they know? It's only a sideline business for them.

FREE the Offaly One.

They know how to make profit. Cheaper installations = profit. Long term investment = slower return

Erm, she is free

loremolis

Monty Burnz wrote: »

The ESB, of all companies, bend over backwards to be ethical an fair in their dealings with the public. I have first hand experience of this in a different capacity.

By ethical and fair you mean bullies and conmen of the highest order?

loremolis

Monty Burnz wrote: »

So you are now claiming that they extended the route an extra 12km just for a laugh? And that this isn't the cheapest, most efficient and least disruptive route possible?

You know that they have professional engineers and surveyors who work on these routes for a living, right?

There are 7,000 people workingemployed in the ESB.

They've got to have something for them to do.

Why not extend the line by a few kilometers, particularlty when the planning, construction and costings of new transmission lines are unregulated.

There are many fine people working in the ESB some professional, some not.

Dudess

Making up stuff and assuming stuff about a company (because you have a grudge against it - what did it do to you? Make you pay a few bills for a service you owe it for?) isn't the same as knowing about it.

But I'll tell you where you're right though: those phone agents in there are on 80k a year... :rolleyes:

Monty Burnz

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Asset rich, cash poor mean anything to you? And even then a lot of their assets ain't worth a whole lot depending on location and accessibility.

I'd rather be cash poor with 100 acres than cash poor without. What does an acre of farmland go for these days?

However, here in Ireland, in the current year, estimates suggest that agricultural land values may have bottomed out or even increased.

One report suggested that average prices for agricultural land increased by 9pc during the first half of this year to around €9,500/ac. Some industry commentators have attributed this recent rise to growth in agricultural production and the resulting expansion of farm holdings, as producers seek to capitalise on the recent rise in the values of farm produce.

http://www.independent.ie/farming/property/nama-land-sales-offers-farmers-a-chance-to-expand-2894606.html

So the average 100-acre farm is worth a million euros(ish).

Chuck Stone

loremolis wrote: »

There are 7,000 people workingemployed in the ESB.

They've got to have something for them to do.

Why not extend the line by a few kilometers, particularlty when the planning, construction and costings of new transmission lines are unregulated.

Poor logic. (See below)

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Let's just say it is #2 i.e. they want to create work and fleece the tax-payer.

This is a fanciful notion because why on earth would they allow this woman to rumble their devious plan? Why not add yet more distance and go around her farm adding yet more work for the lads?

Monty Burnz

loremolis wrote: »

There are 7,000 people workingemployed in the ESB.

They've got to have something for them to do.

You know that external contractors do a lot of this work, right?

jimmycrackcorm

Unfortunately the ESB didn't complete their power line construction while the lady was in prison. Now there's a half way situation where some work has been done and now she is out no one gets any satisfaction.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

How this story isn't been made a big deal shows how sleep like we have become in this country. We will idly stand by and watch an old woman being imprisoned to protect her land. I thought we had moved on from that.

Absolutely shocking story, ESB Networks, Eirgrid and our courts should be ashamed of themselves.

booboo88 wrote: »

Just thought I'd take the liberty to correct that for you

Thought I'd too correct it for you - although I disagree with the sentiment.:p

yourpics

Deleted User wrote: »

It costs more money to make and bury HV cables!

i have placed u/g hv cables for 20K per km

this consisted of 3 no. hv cables, copper earthing and fibre optics

u/g cables require less maintenance as storms/high winds dont affect them

Monty Burnz

yourpics wrote: »

i have placed u/g hv cables for 20K per km

In what context? Did you have to meet the same standards as Eirgrid?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Do you know how much the ESB spend on weather damage every year?.

Certainly do. Very little(<3M pa). UG Cables give endless and expensive faults that result in lots of loss of power to customers. Cable faults are common at all voltages. Please make sure you know what you're talking about in future!

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

yourpics wrote: »

i have placed u/g hv cables for 20K per km

this consisted of 3 no. hv cables, copper earthing and fibre optics

Bull. The material alone will cost most of that. What cable were you using? Reinstatement of land is a few K per km as well!

yourpics

Alexa Billions Pension wrote: »

Bull. The material alone will cost most of that. What cable were you using? Reinstatement of land is a few K per km as well!

I am referring to the cost of laying the cables and reinstatement.
It is a given that they have to buy x amount of cable anyway.

yourpics

Monty Burnz wrote: »

In what context? Did you have to meet the same standards as Eirgrid?

Have to meet higher standards than eirgrid, especially environmental standards.
I never see the esb/eirgrid putting in check dams etc

Micky Dolenz

Alexa Billions Pension wrote: »

Certainly do. Very little(<3M pa). UG Cables give endless and expensive faults that result in lots of loss of power to customers. Cable faults are common at all voltages. Please make sure you know what you're talking about in future!

Very little, how little? as in figures.

Monty Burnz

yourpics wrote: »

Have to meet higher standards than eirgrid, especially environmental standards.
I never see the esb/eirgrid putting in check dams etc

How come you aren't contracting for the ESB if you can undercut their costs so dramatically?

Monty Burnz

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Very little, how little? as in figures.

The figure was <3m pa. Less than 3 million per annum.

yourpics

Monty Burnz wrote: »

How come you aren't contracting for the ESB if you can undercut their costs so dramatically?

We do u/g cables, not poling contracts.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

yourpics wrote: »

I am referring to the cost of laying the cables and reinstatement.
It is a given that they have to buy x amount of cable anyway.

That just proves you are bluffing. UG Cables are multiples of the price of OH. What Cables did you lay? Did your price include reinstatement? ESB are talking about total cost and not just labour?:rolleyes:

UG also has easement problems as it can render some areas unsuitable for development.

Micky Dolenz

Monty Burnz wrote: »

The figure was <3m pa. Less than 3 million per annum.

Sorry, I meant as in a link.

yourpics

Alexa Billions Pension wrote: »

That just proves you are bluffing. UG Cables are multiples of the price of OH. What Cables did you lay? Did your price include reinstatement? ESB are talking about total cost and not just labour?:rolleyes:

UG also has easement problems as it can render some areas unsuitable for development.

I know nothing about cable type or prices.

The price of 20k per km is for:

surveying and setting out including probing
excavate trench including rock breaking
lay cables
reinstate (to landowners wishes)
place cable markers
construct joint pits etc
repair/replace fencing

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

yourpics wrote: »

We do u/g cables, not poling contracts.

Do you know the business at all? ESB use many contractors. Indeed poling contractors are a tiny portion of the construction contractors used. Contractors build HV Lines and Cables and supply full HV stations; for the past 10 years or more.

If you could fully supply UG Circuits at 20k per km you'd be working for ESB day and night. It goes to tender regularly, so why aren't you in there?

yourpics

Alexa Billions Pension wrote: »

Do you know the business at all? ESB use many contractors. Indeed poling contractors are a tiny portion of the construction contractors used. Contractors build HV Lines and Cables and supply full HV stations; for the past 10 years or more.

If you could fully supply UG Circuits at 20k per km you'd be working for ESB day and night. It goes to tender regularly, so why aren't you in there?

we do work for the esb in poor areas, foundations for angle masts etc

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

yourpics wrote: »

I know nothing about cable type or prices.

Exactly. Point proven. You haven't a clue as to the cost of completing a UG HV circuit to commissiong compared to an OH line. :rolleyes:

All you know is the glorified JCB work!