Any one know what I have and where I could get it repaired.

damagegt

I got This from my father and he got it from his grandfather ,who found it in a tatched roof of a house.The proof marks are a crown over "v" DM and a crown over something else I cant make out and LONDON.Its also stamped wa 1145 and again on the butt plate but I have my suspision that these are not original.I found this topic on this site and its a very simalr weapon.Any help would be great.I have posted on the american site and all so contacted a few places in Englang but I have found much.

Thanks







http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid...

FISMA

Do nothing.

Do not repair.

Hang in glass case.

Have you ever watched the antiques road show? Whenever someone "fixes" an old item, they kill the value.

Unless you are willing to pay for a proper professional restoration, do nothing but admire it and be thankful it found its way to you.

damagegt

FISMA wrote: »

Do nothing.

Do not repair.

Hang in glass case.

Have you ever watched the antiques road show? Whenever someone "fixes" an old item, they kill the value.

Unless you are willing to pay for a proper professional restoration, do nothing but admire it and be thankful it found its way to you.

I was hoping to maybe get the side plate and firing block.It used to have two brass bands and a loading/cleaning rod but they have been lost over the years.

Glass case! I spent most my childhood running around with this playing cowboys and Indians

FISMA

damagegt wrote: »

Glass case! I spent most my childhood running around with this playing cowboys and Indians

Epic!

I know lads, they're in their 50's now, whose fathers were in WWII who used to play Soldiers with real Mauser K98's and Lugers in the streets of Brooklyn and the Bronx! Play with a bb gun there today and you'll answer to SWAT.

Anyhow, if you find the parts in the States, give me a PM.

rowa

The v under a crown is a view proof mark , not queen victoria , The other is cp under a crown as far as i can tell from the piccys , the cut out on the left side of the stock should have a brass insert in it and would be easy to make up by anyone handy, does the gun have a lock or frizzen or anything ?
Parts are available from peter dyson in england but aren't a straight fit and the original parts weren't .

http://www.peterdyson.co.uk/

garv123

that looks class. Does it work? From watching pawn stars(:rolleyes:)stuff like that are worth a heck of a lot more left alone if someone goes at it it loses value.

rowa

It'll also be worth less if incomplete , if you fit pattern parts they can always be removed and its back to as it was.

http://www.johnsadler.net/phdi/p1.nsf/supppages/1516?opendocument&part=9

damagegt

rowa wrote: »

The v under a crown is a view proof mark , not queen victoria , The other is cp under a crown as far as i can tell from the piccys , the cut out on the left side of the stock should have a brass insert in it and would be easy to make up by anyone handy, does the gun have a lock or frizzen or anything ?
Parts are available from peter dyson in england but aren't a straight fit and the original parts weren't .

http://www.peterdyson.co.uk/

My uncle is pretty handy will all that kinda stuff.The plan is if I can get a picture or something that he is going to make the parts for it.Im not sure what you mean by a Lock or frizzen ? What you see is all thats left of it.

damagegt

garv123 wrote: »

that looks class. Does it work? From watching pawn stars(:rolleyes:)stuff like that are worth a heck of a lot more left alone if someone goes at it it loses value.

No its far from a state of working but my plan is to get it to look like it might work but with out ruining it.

tac foley

What you have appears to be a late 18th C brass-barrelled flintlock blunderbuss - missing most of the metal parts, by the look of it. It also appears, from the stamps that my pal Rowa has correctly deciphered for us, to be a London made piece. By whom is another matter altogether.

W need to see the lock side - that's the side you haven't shown us, to see what kind/form of a lock you have/had. If the lock plate is still there then we can recommend a suitable cock, frizzen and pan - the bits that make a flintlock firearm actually function. IF any part of the lock is actually still there then it will tell us a whole lot more about this piece. However, if the lock is completely missing then you are in a different ball game entirely, and will be looking at a considerable amount of money to make it look right again. I say this because there are literally thousands of different patterns of lock - each one having been made more or less for the gun on which you see it. True, there were early mass-producer lockmakers like Grice and so on, but I have feeling that this piece is not British.

And yes, Peter Dyson will probably have parts that could be fettled to give a reasonable representation of originality, but it will not be cheap to do.

Meanwhile, give it a coat of good wax polish and leave WELL alone. Over in USA and Canada we have the proper stuff for doing this, but I've never seen it over here in Yoorup.

tac

BTW - the WA 1145 is probably a collection/acquisition number - it is certainly not original to the arm, having been done using a machine cut stamp set.

deeksofdoom

Even if you do make new parts for it its going to look silly, with the span new parts on the old gun..... leave it as is!

damagegt

tac foley wrote: »

We need to see the lock side- that's the side you haven't shown us, to see what kind/form of a lock you have. That way we can recommend a suitable cock and frizzen - the bits that make a flintlock firearm [not weapon on THIS forum] actually function.

IF the lock is actually still there the nit will tell us a whole lto more about this piece.

And yes, Peter Dyson will probably have parts that could be fettled to give a reasonable representation of originality, but it will not be cheap to do.

Meanwhile, give it a coat of good wax polish and leave WELL alone. Over in USA and Canada we have the proper stuff for doing this, but I've never seen it over here in Yoorup.

tac

BTW - the WA 1145 is probably a collection number - it is certainly not original to the arm, having been done using a machine cut stamp set.

Im not at home at the moment.The the other side of the firearm is just a hole.All the furniture is gone.

Also I see Peter Dyson does original parts I.e side plate,brass bands and rods.I would much prefer to use these then new and they dont seem to expensive.I have contacted Peter and sent him some pictures so Ill wait and see what he says.

damagegt

damagegt wrote: »

Im not at home at the moment.The the other side of the firearm is just a hole.All the furniture is gone.

Also I see Peter Dyson does original parts I.e side plate,brass bands and rods.I would much prefer to use these then new and they dont seem to expensive.I have contacted Peter and sent him some pictures so Ill wait and see what he says.

Im asking on other fourms too and Iv been told that the crown over "DM" might be from the maker
Daniel Moore (2) was son of gunmaker Daniel Moore (1).
Apprenticed to George Markby 1746
Free of the company 1756
Proof piece and mark (crown of DM) 1758
elected assistant 1761
furbisher Tower of London 1754
Gunmaker corner of Rood Lane, Fenchurch St 1767-77
34 Lime St. 1771-78
15 Fenchurch St. 1777-83
9 Cullum St. 1784-6
Contractor to ordnance 1778-80
East India Co. 1772-1802

tac foley

damagegt wrote: »

Im asking on other fourms too and Iv been told that the crown over "DM" might be from the maker
Daniel Moore (2) was son of gunmaker Daniel Moore (1).
Apprenticed to George Markby 1746
Free of the company 1756
Proof piece and mark (crown of DM) 1758
elected assistant 1761
furbisher Tower of London 1754
Gunmaker corner of Rood Lane, Fenchurch St 1767-77
34 Lime St. 1771-78
15 Fenchurch St. 1777-83
9 Cullum St. 1784-6
Contractor to ordnance 1778-80
East India Co. 1772-1802

Well, all of a sudden you almost know the history of this old gun! If only it could talk, eh?

Lots of luck.

tac

daveob007

Whatever you DO NOT clean or modify in any way or add parts this can seriously devalue the gun,its probably worth a lot of money even with the missing parts.
send your pics to one of the london auction houses like sutherbys etc and get a rough value.
i have also seen this kind of stuff on pawnstars and anyone who has added parts or repolished the item lose out big time.
do not pawn or sell it untill you know its true value.

rowa

tac foley wrote: »

Well, all of a sudden you almost know the history of this old gun! If only it could talk, eh?

Lots of luck.

tac

I believe these blunderbusses were used by people in england and probabily here, such as customs officials boarding ships , the post office definitely used them on mail stages , and they were used by prisons also, you'd never know what its history is.

Grizzly 45

They were also used in the big houses by the Ascendcy,when us lot got abit out of shape about things in general and arrived en masse on the lawns with our pitchforks and pikes!!!:D
It's an intresting thing too that in an early form of "gun control" here in Ireland,the RIC and English milita confiscated apprently over the years numerous locks and hammers off various flint and percussion pistols,rifles and blunderbusses.Hence many of such are found here with no hammers or lockworks.
Obviously thinking having two seperate firearm bits in different places was a safe bet.The locks and hammers were apprently stamped with a serial number of the piece,if it had such.If not it was stamped with one for each RIC or earlier military command area.So it is quite possible that the WA might be a local RIC/
English Milita garrison registration number??
Always wanted to fire one of these yokes..They apprently kicked like Hell,and had a tendency to explode occasionaly!!:eek: Not surprising..Brass barrells!!!

rowa

Maybe its the gun that tom cruise fired at "his lardship" in far and away ! The one that fell asunder.
I think the brass barrel is for lack of corrosion on ships or on rivers where they'd be wet constantly.

bitemybanger

Saw something very similar to this on the TV show Pawn Stars on the history channel, the guy in the pawn shop called in a historic weapons expert and he said it was a Musketoon, very very rare and worth a pile of money.
What a fantastic piece.

tac foley

rowa wrote: »

Maybe its the gun that tom cruise fired at "his lardship" in far and away ! The one that fell asunder.
I think the brass barrel is for lack of corrosion on ships or on rivers where they'd be wet constantly.

Correct.

tac

tac foley

bitemybanger wrote: »

Saw something very similar to this on the TV show Pawn Stars on the history channel, the guy in the pawn shop called in a historic weapons expert and he said it was a Musketoon, very very rare and worth a pile of money.
What a fantastic piece.

Sir - a musketoon is a reduced sized, usually rifled, version of the standard three-band infantry musket or rifled musket, often carried by mounted artillery, dragoons, or Sergeants of the Line. Being at least a foot, or more shorter than the usual piece, they are much handier, too.

If Rowa would be so kind as to contact me, I'll send him some pics so you can see mine.

A blunderbuss is NOT a musketoon.

tac

tac foley

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

They were also used in the big houses by the Ascendcy,when us lot got abit out of shape about things in general and arrived en masse on the lawns with our pitchforks and pikes!!!:D
It's an intresting thing too that in an early form of "gun control" here in Ireland,the RIC and English milita confiscated apprently over the years numerous locks and hammers off various flint and percussion pistols,rifles and blunderbusses.Hence many of such are found here with no hammers or lockworks.
Obviously thinking having two seperate firearm bits in different places was a safe bet.The locks and hammers were apprently stamped with a serial number of the piece,if it had such.If not it was stamped with one for each RIC or earlier military command area.So it is quite possible that the WA might be a local RIC/
English Milita garrison registration number??
Always wanted to fire one of these yokes..They apprently kicked like Hell,and had a tendency to explode occasionaly!!:eek: Not surprising..Brass barrells!!!

Sir - the brass barrels are not used for cheapness - you will note that THIS gun has passed proof in London at the time, and was judged to be perfectly sound. In any event, the brass barrel was at least twice as thick as the usual wrought iron barrel of the day, and a lot less likely to explode. As Rowa notes, brass-barrelled arms were used by those who could reliably expect to have their firearms exposed to salt water - Customsmen, sailors of Navies of all nations and those in sea-related occupations ALL carried brass-barrelled guns - pistols or long arms like this.

tac