Which lane is faster on dual carriageway?

softmee

Silly question, but I can't find this information anywhere and I am just not sure.. :

Rowley Birkin QC

Neither. They both have the same speed limit.

overshoot

what he^^^ said, but you should always be in the left lane unless overtaking (even on a 3 lane motorway)

softmee

Thanks, sorry -this is what I meant ,where to drive if not overtaking.. :pac:

(dont know why I was thinking its right, maybe because this is the way it is in Germany and Poland)

Alanstrainor

softmee wrote: »

Silly question, but I can't find this information anywhere and I am just not sure.. :

The only real rule you need to know is to keep left.

There is no such thing as a "fast lane". There is a driving lane and an overtaking lane. Even on a three lane motorway, there is a driving lane and 2 overtaking lanes. Keep left unless you are overtaking.

Right hand lane is overtaking lane. If not overtaking keep left.

...unless it's somewhere funky like the N4 when going past Liffey Valley, where you have to go into the 3rd lane to get back onto the M50. I've been caught out a few times trying to merge in with traffic and just had to go straight on.

softmee

Alanstrainor wrote: »

The only real rule you need to know is to keep left.

There is no such thing as a "fast lane". There is a driving lane and an overtaking lane. Even on a three lane motorway, there is a driving lane and 2 overtaking lanes. Keep left unless you are overtaking.

I understand now. (I think :pac:) So, if there is short dual carriageway (like the one in Galway near Briarhill) and I am driving toward's roundabout and I want to turn right on that roundabout I should still drive on left and change lane just about 100m before roundabout -yes?
It always looks to me like there is many cars driving faster on the right there.

Alanstrainor

softmee wrote: »

I understand now. (I think :pac:) So, if there is short dual carriageway (like the one in Galway near Briarhill) and I am driving toward's roundabout and I want to turn right on that roundabout I should still drive on left and change lane just about 100m before roundabout -yes?
It always looks to me like there is many cars driving faster on the right there.

You'll have to take every junction on it's own. Personally i would probably move out earlier than that. But there would be nothing technically wrong with moving out at 100m.

You also have to realise that 85% of drivers have absolutely no idea what they're doing!

**Timbuk2**

As said, there is no such thing as a fast lane.

There is a driving lane, and then an overtaking lane (sometimes two overtaking lanes). Lane 2 is for overtaking traffic in Lane 1, Lane 3 is for overtaking traffic in Lane 2.

It is possible to have different speed limits set for normal driving lanes and bus lanes. For example, along the N11, the speed limit is 80km/h on the 'normal' driving and overtaking lane, but the bus lane has a speed limit of 60km/h.

And despite saying all of the above, it is not uncommon to see a sign refer to fast lane (it is very annoying, as it is technically wrong). The most common example of this (in my experience), is when you have a climbing lane (e.g. when on a hill, or before a hill, the uphill direction splits into two lanes, to allow you to get past the lorries and vehicles that can't go fast up a hill). When the climbing lane ends, you often have signs that say "Fast lane ends 200m" or "Slow lane ends 200m" (depending on which one merges into which), so it's probably not a mystery where people get this fast/slow lane term from.

softmee

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

And despite saying all of the above, it is not uncommon to see a sign refer to fast lane (it is very annoying, as it is technically wrong). The most common example of this (in my experience), is when you have a climbing lane (e.g. when on a hill, or before a hill, the uphill direction splits into two lanes, to allow you to get past the lorries and vehicles that can't go fast up a hill). When the climbing lane ends, you often have signs that say "Fast lane ends 200m" or "Slow lane ends 200m" (depending on which one merges into which), so it's probably not a mystery where people get this fast/slow lane term from.

Yes, no wonder I was confused.
Thank you very much for enlightening me.

softmee

Alanstrainor wrote: »

You also have to realise that 85% of drivers have absolutely no idea what they're doing!

That's true unfortunately I had to close to collision situations caused not by me, but other drivers and I have no license yet, but I DO indicate, I do check the mirrors, I don't cut the corners. It scary sometimes to see what people do..

challengemaster

softmee wrote: »

I understand now. (I think :pac:) So, if there is short dual carriageway (like the one in Galway near Briarhill) and I am driving toward's roundabout and I want to turn right on that roundabout I should still drive on left and change lane just about 100m before roundabout -yes?
It always looks to me like there is many cars driving faster on the right there.

I think it's fair to assume that once signage has indicated the appropriate lanes (or turns off a roundabout) to be in, get in lane applies...

Alanstrainor

challengemaster wrote: »

I think it's fair to assume that once signage has indicated the appropriate lanes (or turns off a roundabout) to be in, get in lane applies...

Indeed. Just be aware that there often isn't much signage approaching a junction on a dual carriageway, so you'll just have to take them as they come.

softmee

By the way -if I wouldn't be able to change lanes for some reason before roundabout and lets say I want to go to the third exit and I am forced to enter from left lane. What should I do in that case?
If I would be in right lane and I would like to got to the second or first exit, I would just drive around - would that be ok? But what in the first case.
I doubt something like this can happen, but what if?

sdanseo

softmee wrote: »

By the way -if I wouldn't be able to change lanes for some reason before roundabout and lets say I want to go to the third exit and I am forced to enter from left lane. What should I do in that case?
If I would be in right lane and I would like to got to the second or first exit, I would just drive around - would that be ok? But what in the first case.
I doubt something like this can happen, but what if?

If you need to change lane, change lane. If it's approaching a roundabout and traffic is slow, then you can usually slow down and indicate and someone will let you across.

If they don't, then you can often manouevre to the third exit from the left lane by changing lane on the roundabout. Don't do it in a test, whatever you do, but once you look in the mirrors and ensure you check blind spots, and nothing is around you, it's perfectly safe to change lane on the roundabout.

Turpentine

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

As said, there is no such thing as a fast lane.

There is a driving lane, and then an overtaking lane....

...And despite saying all of the above, it is not uncommon to see a sign refer to fast lane (it is very annoying, as it is technically wrong). The most common example of this (in my experience), is when you have a climbing lane (e.g. when on a hill, or before a hill, the uphill direction splits into two lanes, to allow you to get past the lorries and vehicles that can't go fast up a hill). When the climbing lane ends, you often have signs that say "Fast lane ends 200m" or "Slow lane ends 200m" (depending on which one merges into which), so it's probably not a mystery where people get this fast/slow lane term from.

Saying "fast"/"slow" instead of "overtaking"/"driving" lane means less letters cluttering up a sign while still getting the principle across.

Besides, if the overtaking lane is not going faster than the driving lane there is something wrong.

**Timbuk2**

Turpentine wrote: »

Saying "fast"/"slow" instead of "overtaking"/"driving" lane means less letters cluttering up a sign while still getting the principle across.

Besides, if the overtaking lane is not going faster than the driving lane there is something wrong.

If overtaking or driving lane takes up too much room, left and right lane should fit neatly

As for the overtaking lane going faster - traffic at a particular point may be going faster, but it obviously isn't true for the whole lane - I could overtake somebody in Lane 2 while doing 120km/h, whereas 1km up the road there could be someone doing 130km/h in Lane 1.
If you really wanted to use the Fast/Slow notation, you could call the overtaking lane the "Faster than Lane 1" lane, and when that condition becomes false (e.g. finished overtaking), you move back to the normal lane. Fast lane itself doesn't make any sense. It's hard to define fast. 100km/h is fast, but you certainly shouldn't sit in the overtaking lane doing 100km/h

And there are people out there that genuinely think it's ok to sit in the overtaking lane as they are going 'fast', and I have no doubt that the fast/slow lane notation is one of the reasons!

Edit: I've used the word 'fast' so much it no longer sounds like a word :P
I was once talking to a guy who told me that there's two lanes on a motorway, a slow lane and a cruising lane. :eek: Cruising lane sounds a lot nicer than 'fast' lane, but it's even moreso terrifyingly wrong (coming from a guy who 'claims' to have passed his test).

**Timbuk2**

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

And there are people out there that genuinely think it's ok to sit in the overtaking lane as they are going 'fast', and I have no doubt that the fast/slow lane notation is one of the reasons!

And people who think their mirrors are purely for decoration and in no way should be checked before switching lanes, especially not if they're going much slower than someone about to overtake them, before pulling out in front

left/right on signs would be a good compromise though, better than fast/slow

Turpentine

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

If overtaking or driving lane takes up too much room, left and right lane should fit neatly

I know you're joking, but having less letters on a sign will increase its legibility, especially if it's on one of those temporary LED signs. It's safer.

"Left"/"right" lane wouldn't quite get the message across would it?

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

If you really wanted to use the Fast/Slow notation, you could call the overtaking lane the "Faster than Lane 1" lane, and when that condition becomes false (e.g. finished overtaking), you move back to the normal lane. Fast lane itself doesn't make any sense. It's hard to define fast. 100km/h is fast, but you certainly shouldn't sit in the overtaking lane doing 100km/h

Grand, if you're not into the whole brevity thing.

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

And there are people out there that genuinely think it's ok to sit in the overtaking lane as they are going 'fast', and I have no doubt that the fast/slow lane notation is one of the reasons!

Well that's obviously idiocy on their part. Even if they're doing-the-speed-limit fast, they've no right to block the overtaking lane for someone who wants to go faster.

I don't think it's due to semantics a lot of the time though, some people are just thick.

"Drive on the left" is not that difficult to understand, whatever you want to call the lane.

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

Edit: I've used the word 'fast' so much it no longer sounds like a word
I was once talking to a guy who told me that there's two lanes on a motorway, a slow lane and a cruising lane. Cruising lane sounds a lot nicer than 'fast' lane, but it's even moreso terrifyingly wrong (coming from a guy who 'claims' to have passed his test).

Nah, to get away with calling it a cruising lane you'd need a backdrop of palm trees and a Van Halen soundtrack.

overshoot

yea you are going to get crucified here if you dont say overtaking... i slipped once and said fast lane and even though i said i was overtaking in the same sentence i still got crucified:rolleyes:
i find if you want the lad in front to move in stick on your right indicator, he gets the point without you looking like a jackass and is usually much more obliging. friend of mine picked up that trick in france

Seth Brundle

With regard to the use of fast and slow in the lane naming, I suspect its both a mix of sloppiness and ignorance. Our road signs are full of this type of error.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054875110

**Timbuk2**

Turpentine wrote: »

I know you're joking, but having less letters on a sign will increase its legibility, especially if it's on one of those temporary LED signs. It's safer.

"Left"/"right" lane wouldn't quite get the message across would it?

You're absolutely right, the less congested signs are the better (as you drive by them, sometimes fairly quickly if we're dealing with multiple lanes). I wasn't joking about Left/Right though, I think it would work fine - I really hate seeing fast or slow lane written on signs. Probably because once I was driving and my friend was in the car and he said something about the 'fast lane' and in my usual stubborness I said 'What's a fast lane? there's no such thing as a fast lane!" (I know what he meant, I'm just a pedant) only to drive about 10 minutes down the motorway to see a sign saying that the fast lane is closed in 2km. That's Tim: 0, Bad signage: 1

Turpentine wrote: »

Well that's obviously idiocy on their part. Even if they're doing-the-speed-limit fast, they've no right to block the overtaking lane for someone who wants to go faster.

Indeed - I think some people take it onto themselves to police the roads, thinking that if they are doing 120km/h, who would want to overtake them? Very ignorant.

Turpentine wrote: »

"Drive on the left" is not that difficult to understand, whatever you want to call the lane.

Yes, definitely! We need more 'Keep left unless overtaking campaigns'. In fact, there's an ad on tv now (has been for a while), telling you how to drive on a three-lane motorway which is definitely a welcome step. The only bit I didn't like is when it said that lane 2 should be used to accommodate merging traffic. It's true that it CAN be used, but I wouldn't necessarily say 'should' - but it is good manners to sometimes.

And I like the idea of turning on your right indicator behind the lane hogger. It's non-confrontational and conveys the meaning well. I once saw a guy on the M1 fruitlessly flash his lights at the old man in his Micra in the overtaking lane (overtaking nothing). I assume that the old man wasn't up to scratch on the rules of the road, otherwise he wouldn't have been where he was, so somebody flashing their lights probably didn't instantly register with him what they meant - a right indicator is more obvious. (He did move into the left lane, let the Audi driver past and myself, then I saw him move into the overtaking lane again in my mirrors).

From my few times driving on motorways in Northern Ireland, they seem to be much better educated on lane discipline (driving on 3 lane motorways up there is a pleasure!). Maybe it's just coincidental though.

Turpentine

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

You're absolutely right, the less congested signs are the better (as you drive by them, sometimes fairly quickly if we're dealing with multiple lanes). I wasn't joking about Left/Right though, I think it would work fine - I really hate seeing fast or slow lane written on signs.

"Get in the right lane!"
"I'm in the right lane"
"No the left lane is the right lane"
But I'm in the right lane"

Road trips would be even more fun

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

Probably because once I was driving and my friend was in the car and he said something about the 'fast lane' and in my usual stubborness I said 'What's a fast lane? there's no such thing as a fast lane!" (I know what he meant, I'm just a pedant) only to drive about 10 minutes down the motorway to see a sign saying that the fast lane is closed in 2km. That's Tim: 0, Bad signage: 1

Once he was in the right, I mean correct, lane it shouldn't really be a problem.

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

Indeed - I think some people take it onto themselves to police the roads, thinking that if they are doing 120km/h, who would want to overtake them? Very ignorant.

Amen brother.

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

And I like the idea of turning on your right indicator behind the lane hogger. It's non-confrontational and conveys the meaning well. I once saw a guy on the M1 fruitlessly flash his lights at the old man in his Micra in the overtaking lane (overtaking nothing). I assume that the old man wasn't up to scratch on the rules of the road, otherwise he wouldn't have been where he was, so somebody flashing their lights probably didn't instantly register with him what they meant - a right indicator is more obvious. (He did move into the left lane, let the Audi driver past and myself, then I saw him move into the overtaking lane again in my mirrors).

Unfortunately, sometimes it can be several minutes of indicating in the hope they'll check their mirrors.

At the end of the day, if someone refuses to drive in the correct lane just because they think it's "the slow lane" they should have their car keys taken from them.

It's not the wording that's the problem.

Seth Brundle

Anyone remember the letter from Mags from galway or the reply to her letter from the retired garda?
Priceless!

challengemaster

kbannon wrote: »

Anyone remember the letter from Mags from galway or the reply to her letter from the retired garda?
Priceless!

LOL, "Section 3 Plonker"

Turpentine

kbannon wrote: »

Anyone remember the letter from Mags from galway or the reply to her letter from the retired garda?
Priceless!

That series of letters should be compulsory reading for anyone planning on driving on a dual-carriageway/motorway for the first time.

kbannon

kbannon wrote: »

Anyone remember the letter from Mags from galway or the reply to her letter from the retired garda?
Priceless!

good lord :eek:

graw123

drive in left lane overtake in right lane. Don't be a right lane hogger lol

softmee

Seriously -I was 100% sure the right lane is just "fast lane" -just because most of the people are not just overtaking -they are just driving faster on right!
I am glad I've asked here and I have no idea why my driving instructor have not explained it to me!

(and I am glad I know this before I got my full license, because after reading this letter it looks like its not a common knowledge) )

**Timbuk2**

I think the majority of drivers on the roads know the difference between an overtaking lane and the driving lane (even if they don't necessarily call it that), but 3-lane motorways is where the lack of knowledge starts to show!

A lot of people seem to think that they should be cruising in the middle lane, and for some reason think that Lane 1 is reserved for lorries and people taking the next exit (I'm not sure where this logic comes from). It's extremely annoying for someone to sit in the middle lane, because it's illegal to overtake on the left unless in slow-moving queues of traffic, so a person in Lane 1 would have to make two lane changes to overtake traffic in Lane 2, and then another 2 lane changes back to get in the correct position. 3 lane motorways are useful in terms of traffic flow as there's considerably less congestion than with 2 lanes, but they lose a lot of effectiveness if people sit in the middle lane.