Ireland being RAPED... Norway lead by example!!

SellingJuan

This is a prime example how rich our country actually is. Please support them. Amazing work send to as many people as possible and get this video out there!!
Ps personal opinion: This country started to go down when we signed over our fishing waters in the 70s.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76VOnzXQMsU

joshrogan

I'll buy Juan barrell of oil off you then please.

pragmatic1

Please make the bad thing stop. I dont like it.

cml387

Do you know the price of a pint in Norway?

Well actully neither do I,but I bet it;s humungous.

Keith186

cml387 wrote: »

Do you know the price of a pint in Norway?

Well actully neither do I,but I bet it;s humungous.

About €9 I hear.

cml387

Keith186 wrote: »

About €9 I hear.

SEE! SEE!

End of thread methinks.

sorry
/Thread

SellingJuan

cml387 wrote: »

SEE! SEE!

End of thread methinks.

sorry
/Thread

Average sallary? Average tax on your wages!! Thread still open me thinks!!

Yeah well Norway has Trolls. I saw a documentary about it in the cinema last week - they employ someone to hunt them and all. Crazy **** there!

Killer Pigeon

Ahh!! Damn socialists wanting to nationalise everything. Bah!!

cml387

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah well Norway has Trolls. I saw a documentary about it in the cinema last week - they employ someone to hunt them and all. Crazy **** there!

And herrings. Don't forget the herrings.

woodoo

I hope Irish people begin to take this seriously.

LostCorkGuy

Keith186 wrote: »

About €9 I hear.

They don't even use the euro in norway ... The clever bast**ds

Gummy Panda

I thought our oil and gas are hard to get at so companies had to be given attractive terms to invest in it?

Chuck Stone

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Ahh!! Damn socialists wanting to nationalise everything. Bah!!

I'm no fan of socialism but when it comes to oil in gas I consider it well and truly the birth right of our people.

They're only to quick to nationalise our failed banks and debts so we should at least follow the Norwegian model of natural resource management.

Monty Burnz

More total bull**** about Ireland's alleged oil reserves. The type of thing that is propagated by those who either don't mind telling lies to try to persuade people, or those two stupid and lazy to look into the economics of the oil industry. :rolleyes:

stovelid

cml387 wrote: »

Do you know the price of a pint in Norway?

Well actully neither do I,but I bet it;s humungous.

You wouldn't be able to afjord it, that's for sure.

AngeGal

SellingJuan wrote: »

Ps personal opinion: This country started to go down when we signed over our fishing waters in the 70s.

We were up before the '70s??

Richard tea

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah well Norway has Trolls. I saw a documentary about it in the cinema last week - they employ someone to hunt them and all. Crazy **** there!

Watched it today. Quality film

woodoo

Monty Burnz wrote: »

More total bull**** about Ireland's alleged oil reserves. The type of thing that is propagated by those who either don't mind telling lies to try to persuade people, or those two stupid and lazy to look into the economics of the oil industry. :rolleyes:

What do we get out of it though? Go take the oil but don't worry about giving the Irish state much in return.

dsmythy

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=70867166&postcount=47

This is where I always bring up the above post. Any profits from oil extraction in Ireland are taxed 25% corporation tax. Following is the text of the above post.

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

People clearly don't know what they are talking about in regards to Shell and the Corrib Gas field etc.

1. Ireland granted Shell drilling rights for nothing. This was bad. We could have charged them a few hundred million.

2. Shell have to put up the costs for exploritory drilling.

3. The reason we are allowing Shell to drill is that we don't want to pay for the drilling ourselves, in the fear that there may not be any oil out there at all.

4. While we agreed no amount payable per barrell, it doesn't stop the Irish government in anyway taxing oil extraction at any percentage that they want. Corporation Tax for oil extraction at the moment is 25% of profits. It used to be 50%. There is no reason why this can't be raised to 75% if the Irish government wants.

5. Even at 75%, it would still be profitable for Shell (hell even at 99% it would be profitable) hence this is a guaranteed solution. And if you're wondering, this is how Libya makes it's money from oil.


Anyone disagrees, then prove me wrong.

unitedrover

Hate the title word raped being applied to other situations....always seems offensive and disrespectful in my view.

Monty Burnz

woodoo wrote: »

What do we get out of it though? Go take the oil but don't worry about giving the Irish state much in return.

I don't mean to sound patronising, but you need to understand how the oil industry works and how capital intensive and risky it is. It's too complicated and late for me to explain it here, but the knowledge is out there.

Having said that, I wouldn't stand over the deals signed by Fianna Failure ministers in years gone by, but the revenue we are losing out on in those particular deals isn't huge, especially considering how feeble our negotiating position was when they were signed.

woodoo

I think we should pressurise our government to get every last penny we can out of that oil. They will do nothing unless we apply the P. If we can't drill ourselves, tax to the max.

Killer Pigeon

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I'm no fan of socialism but when it comes to oil in gas I consider it well and truly the birth right of our people.

No it shouldn't. If I happened to discover some oil on my land it shouldn't be other people right to just take it for themselves. If you nationalise oil and gas you'll be paying through the nose anyway.

Chuck Stone wrote: »

They're only to quick to nationalise our failed banks and debts so we should at least follow the Norwegian model of natural resource management.

As if nationalising the banks and debt was a good idea :rolleyes:

cml387

The Irish way is to pressurise companies to drill for oil and then protest when they want to bring it ashore.

naldface

Monty Burnz wrote: »

More total bull**** about Ireland's alleged oil reserves. The type of thing that is propagated by those who either don't mind telling lies to try to persuade people, or those two stupid and lazy to look into the economics of the oil industry. :rolleyes:

You'll have to work on your sentence structure. I don't think you're ready to create random sentences yet.

woodoo

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

No it shouldn't. If I happened to discover some oil on my land it shouldn't be other people right to just take it for themselves. If you nationalise oil and gas you'll be paying through the nose anyway. :

Is there not some rule that you only actually own 3M below ground.

youtube!

I think the big difference between ourselves and the Norwegians (or just about any other nation on the planet come to think of it) is that we will sit and moan and complain and rant and rave till were blue in the face,but will we actually get up off our collective arse and DO something about it?

Nah didnt think so.

naldface

youtube! wrote: »

I think the big difference between ourselves and the Norwegians (or just about any other nation on the planet come to think of it) is that we will sit and moan and complain and rant and rave till were blue in the face,but will we actually get up off our collective arse and DO something about it?

Nah didnt think so.

Explain it in your own words, please. That is, if you don't mind doing so.

Monty Burnz

naldface wrote: »

You'll have to work on your sentence structure. I don't think you're ready to create random sentences yet.

No actual counter-argument then? Didn't think so.

naldface

Monty Burnz wrote: »

No actual counter-argument then? Didn't think so.

Ok sure.

AlmightyCushion

Comparing us to one of the biggest oil and gas exporters in the world is completely ridiculous. The oil/gas reserves found to date in Ireland are nowhere near the amount found in Norway. Also, the guy who made the video is incorrect. We haven't given our oil away. We let people explore for oil in certain areas for free. We do charge tax on it (25-40% unlike the 0% he states). If we charged the same or similar taxes as Norway does, why the hell would any one bother looking for oil here when they can do the same in Norway where they have a better chance of finding oil a bigger amount of oil.

dj jarvis

Monty Burnz wrote: »

More total bull**** about Ireland's alleged oil reserves. The type of thing that is propagated by those who either don't mind telling lies to try to persuade people, or those two stupid and lazy to look into the economics of the oil industry. :rolleyes:

apt avatar

oil company's would not touch Irish oil and gas unless they could make a BIG profit for its investors - no matter how hard it is to get at

price of oil is only going one way and that is up - thus making it even more valuable and profit making for big oil - negating the cost of recovery

our natural resources are ours , does not matter how small or large they are. we should hang any politician that does not back a law taxing 80% of AFTER extraction cost profit - oil company's will still make a profit - that is the economics of the oil industry

wild_cat

No one wants to pay nearly 4 euro for a loaf of bread or 14 euro for a big mac meal.

You thought 2006 Irish prices were high!!

John Doe1

youtube! wrote: »

I think the big difference between ourselves and the Norwegians (or just about any other nation on the planet come to think of it) is that we will sit and moan and complain and rant and rave till were blue in the face,but will we actually get up off our collective arse and DO something about it?

Nah didnt think so.

Unless the english are involved, make up a story that the english are stealing the oil, problem solved

Guy:Incognito

dj jarvis wrote: »

price of oil is only going one way and that is up - thus making it even more valuable and profit making for big oil - negating the cost of recovery

The cost of recovering the oil you find is one thing. Another thing altogether is the cost of all the searches where you dont find anything to get to the one where you do.

ArmaniJeanss

dj jarvis wrote: »

apt avatar

oil company's would not touch Irish oil and gas unless they could make a BIG profit for its investors - no matter how hard it is to get at

price of oil is only going one way and that is up - thus making it even more valuable and profit making for big oil - negating the cost of recovery

our natural resources are ours , does not matter how small or large they are. we should hang any politician that does not back a law taxing 80% of AFTER extraction cost profit - oil company's will still make a profit - that is the economics of the oil industry

If the oil companies are getting such a mega deal from us, then why aren't they abandoning those high-tax Norwegian fields and doing major exploration off the coast of Ireland. Why are still bothering with the East coast of Scotland?
Why aren't they just moving every bit of equipment to Ireland - why doesn't the coast from Dingle to Donegal look like Kuwait?

Well the simple explanation is the deal we've given them is favourable, but not hugely so - neither are any reserves off the coast of Ireland proven to be there, or to be there in sufficient qualntity or ease of bringing ashore.

In the last round of 'free mega giveaway' licenses, 15 licenses were picked up.
There were 996 offshore fields available for license. So we 'gave away' 15. 15 of 996 hardly points to the oil companies tripping over themselves to take advantage of Irish stupidity.
If the oil companies hit big time (say 3 of the 15 fields strike oil/gas), they win.
But we will also win as we will still have 981 fields left, and thats when we can become like Norway.

dj jarvis

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

If the oil companies are getting such a mega deal from us, then why aren't they abandoning those high-tax Norwegian fields and doing major exploration off the coast of Ireland. Why are still bothering with the East coast of Scotland?
Why aren't they just moving every bit of equipment to Ireland - why doesn't the coast from Dingle to Donegal look like Kuwait?

Well the simple explanation is the deal we've given them is favourable, but not hugely so - neither are any reserves off the coast of Ireland proven to be there, or to be there in sufficient qualntity or ease of bringing ashore.

In the last round of 'free mega giveaway' licenses, 15 licenses were picked up.
There were 996 offshore fields available for license. So we 'gave away' 15. 15 of 996 hardly points to the oil companies tripping over themselves to take advantage of Irish stupidity.
If the oil companies hit big time (say 3 of the 15 fields strike oil/gas), they win.
But we will also win as we will still have 981 fields left, and thats when we can become like Norway.

they would not be bothering unless money was to be made - simple.
no one is saying Ireland has the reserves of Norway or will be the next Kuwait - stop being so disingenuous

any reserves found now or in the future should have a new deal - one that benefits the Irish people in a way that reflects the value of the resource

peak oil has passed according to most experts - oil prices will rise and rise - the meager amounts of oil and gas we have will eventually become worth a lot of money. no matter the extraction costs , when this happens we should profit, not BP or its like

no matter how " harsh " the deal is for the oil company's if there is profit to be made they will come , maybe not now or in 20 years but it will be recovered - only question is - who will benefit ?

AlmightyCushion

dj jarvis wrote: »

when this happens we should profit, not BP or its like

No, both us and the oil company should profit from it. Why would an oil company explore if they didn't expect to make any money.

Chuck Stone

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

No it shouldn't. If I happened to discover some oil on my land it shouldn't be other people right to just take it for themselves.

How deep do you think your poperty rights should extend? To the core of the Earth? Should you be able to prevent people from crossing your airspace?

If you nationalise oil and gas you'll be paying through the nose anyway.

I don't mean having it extracted by some state company but taking healthy royalties like Norway does.

marco_polo

dj jarvis wrote: »

they would not be bothering unless money was to be made - simple.
no one is saying Ireland has the reserves of Norway or will be the next Kuwait - stop being so disingenuous

any reserves found now or in the future should have a new deal - one that benefits the Irish people in a way that reflects the value of the resource

peak oil has passed according to most experts - oil prices will rise and rise - the meager amounts of oil and gas we have will eventually become worth a lot of money. no matter the extraction costs , when this happens we should profit, not BP or its like

no matter how " harsh " the deal is for the oil company's if there is profit to be made they will come , maybe not now or in 20 years but it will be recovered - only question is - who will benefit ?

And should exploration become more profitable in Irish waters, putting us in a better bargaining position, we always retain the option to revise the terms before any future licensing rounds into more favourable ones for the country (we can and have revised such terms both upwards and downwards in the past), so I fail to see the problem.

For the moment, because demand for Irish exploration rights is extremely low, 25-40% * something > 80% * nothing

The_Minister

It's funny that it took until the third page for someone to point out that the video was lying in a big way by saying that we were getting nothing for our oil.

DaveDaRave

unitedrover wrote: »

Hate the title word raped being applied to other situations....always seems offensive and disrespectful in my view.

but im sure murdered would be fine, because rape is worse than murder, right ?

:rolleyes:

Duggy747

The_Minister wrote: »

It's funny that it took until the third page for someone to point out that the video was lying in a big way by saying that we were getting nothing for our oil.

Not really funny, I guess, considering I've had my newsfeed on Facebook swamped with ill-informed, over-zealous and part time anti-Shell protestors coming out of the woodworks to spout nonsense since this video was released.

The "Ireland are getting 0% for oil while Norway are living like a king amongst kings!" was the usual order of "topical and intellectual" discussion for them to **** over.

It's one thing when a filmmaker needs to raise a point on an issue, it's another when they have to exaggarate (or lie) to get people on their side.

AlmightyCushion

The_Minister wrote: »

It's funny that it took until the third page for someone to point out that the video was lying in a big way by saying that we were getting nothing for our oil.

Most people probably didn't watch the video or just watched the "what makes Norway so rich? Oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil" part. Most people believe we have massive oil reserves and have just let shell waltz in and take it. I thought so too when I read the stories and opinion pieces in newspapers that said it at the time. That changed once I looked into it for myself. If I hadn't looked into it myself, I'd probably be losing the plot here as well without watching any of that video.

upandcumming

naldface wrote: »

You'll have to work on your sentence structure. I don't think you're ready to create random sentences yet.

naldface wrote: »

Explain it in your own words, please. That is, if you don't mind doing so.

Just fuck off!

andrew

I had a read of a shell to sea leaflet today. Its done in the style of a faux news article reporting on the nationalisation of our gas fields (which are worth either 420 or 540 billion, I saw two figures). Anyway it has a faux quote from the minister for finance..."minister Brian Lenihan" :O

I think that the leaflet did have a point in that I don't see why the government lowered the tax rate on the oil. Did the lower rate actually induce more investment? Also, according to the leaflet, exploration costs can be claimed against tax, which again seems silly if its true. The problem is that even if there's a germ of truth in what the shell to sea crowd are saying, they're mostly nutters who don't know what theyre talking about.

marco_polo

andrew wrote: »

I had a read of a shell to sea leaflet today. Its done in the style of a faux news article reporting on the nationalisation of our gas fields (which are worth either 420 or 540 billion, I saw two figures). Anyway it has a faux quote from the minister for finance..."minister Brian Lenihan" :O

I think that the leaflet did have a point in that I don't see why the government lowered the tax rate on the oil. Did the lower rate actually induce more investment? Also, according to the leaflet, exploration costs can be claimed against tax, which again seems silly if its true. The problem is that even if there's a germ of truth in what the shell to sea crowd are saying, they're mostly nutters who don't know what theyre talking about.

What is really silly is the Norwegian model they are all fapping over reimburses something like 80% of exploration costs.

The tax take on profits was increased from 25% to between 25-40% a few years ago by the Greens I believe (Dependent on profitability) a good few years ago, nothing has changed in this regard recently, what did change was some other terms of the current licensing round as explained here .

All of which had the desired effect of increasing the number of applications from 4 the last time, to 15 this time.

AlmightyCushion

I've heard this 0.5 trillion euros of oil/gas reserves figure a few times. Does any one actually know where it came from?

Alan b.

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

No it shouldn't. If I happened to discover some oil on my land it shouldn't be other people right to just take it for themselves. If you nationalise oil and gas you'll be paying through the nose anyway.

it's in the constitution that the resources of the state belong to the people of the state, so if you somehow managed to find an oil deposit deep underground under the footprintof your property, thats still not yours.

just as the port tunnel was able to go under ground without having to buy the land under property.

you dont own the space under your property, only a portion of it.


also, correct me if i'm wrong, but isnt the oil being extracted of the kind not really suitable for refining fuels? and more, for creating plastics and such???

Spacedog

What about option 3?

Leave the oil in the ground/under the sea until technology advancement and scarcity, make it more easy to find, safer to extract, and more valuable to sell for the future generations.

What's the hurry to get it out of the ground at knockdown prices?

I'm looking for an answer here. Where is the business sense in the fire sale, It's exactly the same as NAMA, portfolio of some of the worlds most iconic properties, forced to sell off in the middle of an unprecedented global recession within a restricted time frame.

It never ceases to amaze me how random boardsies will argue so passionately for the rights of the likes of Shell, there's playing the devils advocate, trolling, or even having a vested interest in the oil business doing well. But to sell out your own people to protect stupid old FF policies and deals, low corporation tax, is truly repulsive to decent hard working normal people.

Things are gonna get a lot worse for us all because of things like this, and if it takes a civil war to separate us from those here who suffer from social autism.