Ireland being RAPED... Norway lead by example!!

Alan b.

Spacedog wrote: »

What about option 3?

Leave the oil in the ground/under the sea until technology advancement and scarcity, make it more easy to find, safer to extract, and more valuable to sell for the future generations.

What's the hurry to get it out of the ground at knockdown prices?

I'm looking for an answer here. Where is the business sense in the fire sale, It's exactly the same as NAMA, portfolio of some of the worlds most iconic properties, forced to sell off in the middle of an unprecedented global recession within a restricted time frame.

It never ceases to amaze me how random boardsies will argue so passionately for the rights of the likes of Shell, there's playing the devils advocate, trolling, or even having a vested interest in the oil business doing well. But to sell out your own people to protect stupid old FF policies and deals, low corporation tax, is truly repulsive to decent hard working normal people.

Things are gonna get a lot worse for us all because of things like this, and if it takes a civil war to separate us from those here who suffer from social autism.

this is a very real possibility in the very near future as the eurozone is about to collapse.

marco_polo

Spacedog wrote: »

What about option 3?

Leave the oil in the ground/under the sea until technology advancement and scarcity, make it more easy to find, safer to extract, and more valuable to sell for the future generations.

What's the hurry to get it out of the ground at knockdown prices?

I'm looking for an answer here. Where is the business sense in the fire sale, It's exactly the same as NAMA, portfolio of some of the worlds most iconic properties, forced to sell off in the middle of an unprecedented global recession within a restricted time frame.

It never ceases to amaze me how random boardsies will argue so passionately for the rights of the likes of Shell, there's playing the devils advocate, trolling, or even having a vested interest in the oil business doing well. But to sell out your own people to protect stupid old FF policies and deals, low corporation tax, is truly repulsive to decent hard working normal people.

Things are gonna get a lot worse for us all because of things like this, and if it takes a civil war to separate us from those here who suffer from social autism.

It wasn't a firesale though it was a perfectly normal licensing round as takes place every few years, with slightly different terms to the previous one, designed to increase exploration levels (there were 4 aplications in the previous one). As was said on the previous page this resulted in a moderate increase in applications to explore 15 of the 996 available blocks.

The business sense in stimulating exploration is that firstly it increases the potential for substantial finds, which results in more tax revenues, and secondly any increase in the exploration sucess ratios would provide us with a much stronger position for setting more favourable terms for ourselves into the future.

4leto

We have given Europe 210 billion in fish, they have given us aspiration, and 50 billion in grants.

But our economy has changed, it has employed more people, and made us wealthier.

The thing about wealth and employment, it only matters when it employs people, and those people produce a saleable product, or when we are willing to be consumers of that industry, BUT like most Irish, personally I hate fish, Unless they are battered.

AS for our oil where exactly is that,? I am not saying there is none, there is barrels, but unlike Norway its deep oil, not northsea 100 metres deep oil rig which touches the sea floor, and you can send down a human diver to fix a problem. Ours is 1000 to 2000 metres deep, our rigs would have to float and be controlled in the rough north atlantic by computers.

We seen what happened when this drilling op goes wrong , we get a major leak, and NO irish power to fix it. America and Obama could barely fix that BP disaster.

So leave it alone till the tech is perfect to extract it. So give up the dream of an Ireland Saudi, it really is a risky venture and not worth doing. We have ourselves to create a future. We can, with no pipe dreams.

Monty Burnz

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

If I hadn't looked into it myself, I'd probably be losing the plot here as well without watching any of that video.

Yeah, but you can't be expecting people to educate themselves on how businesses work ('if they were taxed at 99%, they'd still be making a profit' :rolleyes:) and how the oil industry works - sure that's boring. Better to listen to a few soundbites or watch a propaganda video put together by a clown than to invest some hours in reading boring information.

JupiterKid

In Norway they are quite fond of burning churches to the ground. We In Ireland haven't followed suit...yet.

giles lynchwood

cml387 wrote: »

Do you know the price of a pint in Norway?

Well actully neither do I,but I bet it;s humungous.

Why does everything in this country relate to alcohol,why not ask about the cost of living in Norway.
Gombeen Irish at it´s best.
There is a theory that the best of the Irish,i.e. those with foresight,courage and motovation left Ireland during the fammine,and the runt´s stayed.

Monty Burnz

giles lynchwood wrote: »

Why does everything in this country relate to alcohol,why not ask about the cost of living in Norway.
Gombeen Irish at it´s best.
There is a theory that the best of the Irish,i.e. those with foresight,courage and motovation left Ireland during the fammine,and the runt´s stayed.

There's another theory that those who couldn't hack it here and who made a balls of their life were forced to slink away to other countries.

But I agree, the alcohol business does get very tiresome. So many times I've had to listen to people from other countries talking about my (presumed) great love for the drink, which I guess they heard about from that sad, loud minority of Irish people who think it makes us sound great (as if Ireland were a 13 year old child trying to impress it's peers) and that life revolves around alcohol.

Richard tea

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Most people probably didn't watch the video or just watched the "what makes Norway so rich? Oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil" part. Most people believe we have massive oil reserves and have just let shell waltz in and take it. I thought so too when I read the stories and opinion pieces in newspapers that said it at the time. That changed once I looked into it for myself. If I hadn't looked into it myself, I'd probably be losing the plot here as well without watching any of that video.

May I be so bold as to ask how you went about looking into it?

marco_polo

4leto wrote: »

We have given Europe 210 billion in fish, they have given us aspiration, and 50 billion in grants.

Hate to break it to you but that 210 billlon fish is a mythical figure.

http://www.marine.ie/NR/rdonlyres/B274034C-8DCA-4CEA-ADD7-F0FC5652DA0B/0/Valueoflandings.pdf

The Irish share in volume from the waters
around Ireland is 15% and within the Irish EEZ this is substantial
higher (28%). In terms of values catches from the
waters around Ireland are worth around €800 million annually
of which around €460 million worth are taken from
the Irish EEZ. The Irish share is higher in terms of values
with 19% from the waters around Ireland and 30% from
the EEZ (given the assumptions made this might be an over
estimate of the true percentages and underestimate of the
values of the international landings)

Monty Burnz

Richard tea wrote: »

May I be so bold as to ask how you went about looking into it?

If you want a general idea of how to look into it rather than the specific means that Almighty Cushion used, I would suggest reading up on the business of oil investment. There are reams of information on the oil industry from the investor's perspective and it gives you an idea of how the oil industry works - the risks involved for investors (read: oil companies), the effects of regulation and tax regimes, incentivisation, upstream and downstream business, the process of 'proving' reserves, how reserves can be under or overestimated (you may recall that Shell got into a load of bother in the last decade having to revise downwards their proved reserves), reserve replacement ratios and so forth.

The large figures bandied around for the guesstimates of reserves in Irish waters seem to have been put out in Irish government publications - publications that they hope will win the attention of those with the skills, equipment and the cash required to hunt for this oil on our behalf. It's not surprising that they will try to talk up the amount of oil out there.

I guarantee you if you spend half a day reading up on this stuff you will come to the conclusion that those banging on about us being robbed of our oil birthright are ideologues talking out of their arses.

Tabnabs

Norway, where a pint of Guinness will set you back €11.68 and a Deluxe Bacon Cheeseburger will cost you €24.26 :eek:

http://planetbergen.no/images/uploads/Scruffy_meny_2011_web.pdf

Where in the country that is the sixth-largest net oil exporter in the world, petrol costs €1.84/L and diesel is €1.73/L

However, the average wage in Norway is €55,691.32

http://www.ssb.no/lonnansatt_en/


TL/DR?

Norway - not for tourists!

Nulty

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Yeah, but you can't be expecting people to educate themselves on how businesses work ('if they were taxed at 99%, they'd still be making a profit' :rolleyes:) and how the oil industry works - sure that's boring. Better to listen to a few soundbites or watch a propaganda video put together by a clown than to invest some hours in reading boring information.

In fairness I'm sure at least some of the people you are referring to have read up on various things that don't happen to be oil and energy related. We can't all know everything and we sometimes rely on other sources of information. People lead busy lives. But of course that's why discussion forums like boards exist. So people like you can tell people like us where to find better information rather than you complaining that we haven't done everything you have done. Those people you complain about are obviously concerned and impressionable about something like this and if it bothers you that they are misinformed then the best thing for you to do is to be helpful rather than dismissive.

Monty Burnz

Nulty wrote: »

In fairness I'm sure at least some of the people you are referring to have read up on various things that don't happen to be oil and energy related. We can't all know everything and we sometimes rely on other sources of information. People lead busy lives. But of course that's why discussion forums like boards exist. So people like you can tell people like us where to find better information rather than you complaining that we haven't done everything you have done. Those people you complain about are obviously concerned and impressionable about something like this and if it bothers you that they are misinformed then the best thing for you to do is to be helpful rather than dismissive.

Point taken, and I've done that (see my previous post where someone actually asks where to find info), but I find it annoying when people take this propaganda at face value and then start fighting for some cause that's totally mistaken. There are plenty of fields where I don't have a breeze - but I won't turn around and start condemning people or demanding a course of action in those areas until I find out what is actually going on (from non-partisan sources).

Bear in mind that I also may have a busy life and don't necessarily have time to spoon-feed people information that is freely available on the web.

Nulty

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Point taken, and I've done that (see my previous post where someone actually asks where to find info), but I find it annoying when people take this propaganda at face value and then start fighting for some cause that's totally mistaken. There are plenty of fields where I don't have a breeze - but I won't turn around and start condemning people or demanding a course of action in those areas until I find out what is actually going on (from non-partisan sources).

Bear in mind that I also may have a busy life and don't necessarily have time to spoon-feed people information that is freely available on the web.

Fair point, I didn't imply "spoon-feeding" though, just that you point them in the right direction like posting one or two URLs doesn't take a massive amount of effort. You spent enough time complaining about peoples misinformation that the time spent posting a URL pales in significance. I'm not having a go though, you did post some useful comments on research so thanks for that.

tipptom

4leto wrote: »

We have given Europe 210 billion in fish, they have given us aspiration, and 50 billion in grants.

But our economy has changed, it has employed more people, and made us wealthier.

The thing about wealth and employment, it only matters when it employs people, and those people produce a saleable product, or when we are willing to be consumers of that industry, BUT like most Irish, personally I hate fish, Unless they are battered.

AS for our oil where exactly is that,? I am not saying there is none, there is barrels, but unlike Norway its deep oil, not northsea 100 metres deep oil rig which touches the sea floor, and you can send down a human diver to fix a problem. Ours is 1000 to 2000 metres deep, our rigs would have to float and be controlled in the rough north atlantic by computers.

We seen what happened when this drilling op goes wrong , we get a major leak, and NO irish power to fix it. America and Obama could barely fix that BP disaster.

So leave it alone till the tech is perfect to extract it. So give up the dream of an Ireland Saudi, it really is a risky venture and not worth doing. We have ourselves to create a future. We can, with no pipe dreams.

I say lets get a massive f*cking bridging loan until we get the technology to get it ourselves.

Monty Burnz

tipptom wrote: »

I say lets get a massive f*cking bridging loan until we get the technology to get it ourselves.

Would you trust Irish politicians to manage it properly? You saw how Fianna Failure managed our economy during the bubble - you think they could be trusted to build a successful oil company from scratch?

revell

Once Ireland has gotten back all the oil and gas, I expect a second property boom and bust and the revisit of IMF.

goose2005

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

No it shouldn't. If I happened to discover some oil on my land it shouldn't be other people right to just take it for themselves.

Land tenure and ownership is enormously complicated. Your land is probably held in fee simple and is probably not entirely your property.

meglome

4leto wrote: »

We have given Europe 210 billion in fish, they have given us aspiration, and 50 billion in grants.

No we haven't unless the fish were made from gold (they weren't in case you were wondering).

Here are the actual figures http://www.seaaroundus.org/eez/372/14.aspx?d=1 (show tabular data).

4leto

meglome wrote: »

No we haven't unless the fish were made from gold (they weren't in case you were wondering).

Here are the actual figures http://www.seaaroundus.org/eez/372/14.aspx?d=1 (show tabular data).

Yeah I see that now I was wrong.

As for the oil extraction, great till it goes wrong, and as events this year has proven, it can go incredible wrong.

Now I don't fancy the chances of Lil old Ireland dealing with an oil multinational, if it went wrong.

I say leave it.

Absurdum

dey gave it away for nuttin, Joe, nuttin!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mr Benevolent

It's horribly expensive to search for oil, then drill, refine and ship it. The first two costs are what people are expecting the taxpayer to bear - without any guarantee of breaking even, let alone making a profit. For such a small country it's perfectly sensible to turn the process (and rights) over to companies that have huge cash reserves, expertise and equipment. Handing that sort of responsibility over to the Irish gubberment would be like handing orphans over to priests in the 50's. Corruption, incompetence and ass-raping would follow.

Monty Burnz

Confab wrote: »

It's horribly expensive to search for oil, then drill, refine and ship it. The first two costs are what people are expecting the taxpayer to bear - without any guarantee of breaking even, let alone making a profit. For such a small country it's perfectly sensible to turn the process (and rights) over to companies that have huge cash reserves, expertise and equipment. Handing that sort of responsibility over to the Irish gubberment would be like handing orphans over to priests in the 50's. Corruption, incompetence and ass-raping would follow.

Which is not to say that in future, a better deal can't be done when it's proven that the time, effort and investment of oil companies is worthwhile - my concern in that case would be that the oil money would be squandered in Fianna Failure-style election buying, rather than invested in a way that would pay for our pensions, education and health services in years to come.

Remember what happened to the pension reserve fund - and every week there's another gombeen calling for it to be spent (i.e. wasted) on some new pork barrel project for his constituents.

mconigol

I suppose the difference is that Norway actually has oil.

I lived in Norway. It's not that good.

As soon as the oil runs out they're ****ed! Not much other industry.

fontanalis

Phew, some voices of sanity in here. Hopefully the poeple who think that Ireland would be a economic powerhouse if it wasn't for Ray Burke will take note. I doubt it though.

killerboy

cml387 wrote: »

Do you know the price of a pint in Norway?

Well actully neither do I,but I bet it;s humungous.

Keith186 wrote: »

About €9 I hear.

My friend just went there on holiday last week and said a sandwich was about 10-15 euros, not to mention a drink. So they got all their things from the duty free at the airport lol

Sky King

Charging tax on profits is a waste of time... COMPLETE waste of time. Any self employed person or first year accounting student will tell you how easy it is for a company not to show a profit.

The general consensus now is that the corrib gas field project is not going to show a book profit at all, meaning the country won't get a cent from it... not a cent! We just gave it all away!

fontanalis

Sky King wrote: »

Charging tax on profits is a waste of time... COMPLETE waste of time. Any self employed person or first year accounting student will tell you how easy it is for a company not to show a profit.

The general consensus now is that the corrib gas field project is not going to show a book profit at all, meaning the country won't get a cent from it... not a cent! We just gave it all away!

How much would the government have had to pump in to get it running in the first place? Genral consensus or Joe Duffy caller consensus. People have to be employed that's PAYE, local goods and services may be purchased so there's VAT on those etc

K-9

Sky King wrote: »

Charging tax on profits is a waste of time... COMPLETE waste of time. Any self employed person or first year accounting student will tell you how easy it is for a company not to show a profit.

The general consensus now is that the corrib gas field project is not going to show a book profit at all, meaning the country won't get a cent from it... not a cent! We just gave it all away!

A big factor being how long it has taken to build the damn thing!

Still, I'm sure there are loads of other companies willing to take advantage of these generous terms! The thing is, oil needs to stay high to make Ireland's resources viable so we'll end up paying through the nose anyway, unless we do a Chavez and subsidise it.

professore

If we were giving away the "huge reserves" of oil we supposedly have, the coast of Ireland would be thick with oilwells.

Do you really think the Government would say "here's an exploration license, sure it'll cost you a fortune and there's most likely no oil there at all, but sure won't it be great craic? Oh and by the way if you find anything you have to give us 75% of it" Of course not. I guess the only kind of "investor" that would go for a deal like that would be the same kind who thought a mortgage at 10 times salary was "affordable"

4leto

I was listening to Pat Rabbite on Primetime, there was 15 exploitative licences applied for by oil companies to drill off our coast. In the same period over a 100 licences was applied for to various governments around the north to drill there. sea.

So oil companies do not have that that much surety of a profitable find in our waters. I hate to say it but I don't have much hope that oil will solve our problems.

It really is as expensive venture, this exploration cost millions and millions, almost space exploration costs.

But at least i can hope there is a big profitable find out there, the way I hope I may win the lotto.

unitedrover

DaveDaRave wrote: »

but im sure murdered would be fine, because rape is worse than murder, right ?

:rolleyes:

Wouldnt be appropriate either. Theres plenty other words that could explain the situation here. A simple online synonym search would suffice.


Apologies for drifting off topic. The choice of words is hardly the main issue of discussion here.

Spacedog

mconigol wrote: »

I suppose the difference is that Norway actually has oil.

I lived in Norway. It's not that good.

As soon as the oil runs out they're ****ed! Not much other industry.

Fishing Industry?

Spacedog

marco_polo wrote: »

It wasn't a firesale though it was a perfectly normal licensing round as takes place every few years, with slightly different terms to the previous one, designed to increase exploration levels (there were 4 aplications in the previous one). As was said on the previous page this resulted in a moderate increase in applications to explore 15 of the 996 available blocks.

The business sense in stimulating exploration is that firstly it increases the potential for substantial finds, which results in more tax revenues, and secondly any increase in the exploration sucess ratios would provide us with a much stronger position for setting more favourable terms for ourselves into the future.

Typical Palaeontologist attitude. Get Them fuckin giant lizard bones outta the ground, so as we can dick about with them in a lab, then let them rot in open air museums covered in corrosive 'preservent' chemicals that scientists 50 years from now will hate us for not just leaving the knowledge there unspoilt for true insights to be discovered by applying as yet unknown bio-archaeological insights and innovations.

If there is a **** load of oil under Ireland, we would do ourselves a favour to leave it undiscovered, we as a people would be bombed into the stoneage because Enda Kenny won't disclose his cache of WMDs. or some other lame duck excuse.

Samba

mconigol wrote: »

I suppose the difference is that Norway actually has oil.

I lived in Norway. It's not that good.

As soon as the oil runs out they're ****ed! Not much other industry.

Eh no, since discovering their wealth of resources they quickly realised that one day they would ultimately run out, so to safeguard against this, the Norwegian Government have been making global strategic investments so to ensure the future sustainability of their country, whether it proves to be successful is another matter but they certainly don't have their heads buried in the sand in this respect.

Norwayviking

mconigol wrote: »

I suppose the difference is that Norway actually has oil.

I lived in Norway. It's not that good.

As soon as the oil runs out they're ****ed! Not much other industry.

Did you look close enough!!!!:rolleyes:

Manufacturing, mining, and crude petroleum and gas production accounted for nearly 31% of the GDP in 2000. The most important export industries are oil and gas extraction, metalworking, pulp and paper, chemical products, and processed fish. Products traditionally classified as home market industries (electrical and nonelectrical machinery, casting and foundry products, textiles, paints, varnishes, rubber goods, and furniture) also make an important contribution. Electrochemical and electrometallurgical products—aluminum, ferroalloys, steel, nickel, copper, magnesium, and fertilizers—are based mainly on Norway's low-cost electric power. Without any bauxite reserves of its own, Norway has thus been able to become a leading producer of aluminum.

marco_polo

Spacedog wrote: »

Typical Palaeontologist attitude. Get Them fuckin giant lizard bones outta the ground, so as we can dick about with them in a lab, then let them rot in open air museums covered in corrosive 'preservent' chemicals that scientists 50 years from now will hate us for not just leaving the knowledge there unspoilt for true insights to be discovered by applying as yet unknown bio-archaeological insights and innovations.

If there is a **** load of oil under Ireland, we would do ourselves a favour to leave it undiscovered, we as a people would be bombed into the stoneage because Enda Kenny won't disclose his cache of WMDs. or some other lame duck excuse.

You asked for the the economic reasoning behind adjusting the licensing terms, not my personal views on oil exploration.

bnt

I don't know about Ireland's oil reserves, but from what I understand, the Norwegian government was very smart in the way they handled their oil discoveries. They did not fall for the temptation to spend their windfall at once, not even on "noble" projects such as infrastructure. There was a good discussion of the topic on NPR's "Planet Money" podcast, here: Norways got advice for Libya.

Norwayviking

SellingJuan wrote: »

This is a prime example how rich our country actually is. Please support them. Amazing work send to as many people as possible and get this video out there!!
Ps personal opinion: This country started to go down when we signed over our fishing waters in the 70s.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76VOnzXQMsU

Well its been 1000 years since the Vikings where here raping

msg11

fontanalis wrote: »

How much would the government have had to pump in to get it running in the first place? Genral consensus or Joe Duffy caller consensus. People have to be employed that's PAYE, local goods and services may be purchased so there's VAT on those etc

The problem here is they are going to extract 580 Billion Euros worth of Oil and Gas from Ireland. Too which the Irish people getting nothing. Which is not really fair considering someone just said to Shell fire away have a go at getting some oil out there.

Quite moronic that the government gave it away, now I am not up on oil extracting or exploration. But I can quite clearly see and have a gut feeling this is an awful deal for the Irish people and a good bit of this could have gotten us out of this financial mess.

TheBlock

msg11 wrote: »

The problem here is they are going to extract 580 Billion Euros worth of Oil and Gas from Ireland. Too which the Irish people getting nothing. QUOTE]

Source please?

msg11

TheBlock wrote: »

msg11 wrote: »

The problem here is they are going to extract 580 Billion Euros worth of Oil and Gas from Ireland. Too which the Irish people getting nothing. QUOTE]

Source please?

Said in that video..

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2011/0319/1224292581861.html

850 Billion according to that ?

Monty Burnz

msg11 wrote: »

The problem here is they are going to extract 580 Billion Euros worth of Oil and Gas from Ireland. Too which the Irish people getting nothing. Which is not really fair considering someone just said to Shell fire away have a go at getting some oil out there.

Quite moronic that the government gave it away, now I am not up on oil extracting or exploration. But I can quite clearly see and have a gut feeling this is an awful deal for the Irish people and a good bit of this could have gotten us out of this financial mess.

I guess you didn't read any of the thread?

reprazant

msg11 wrote: »

TheBlock wrote: »

Said in that video..

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2011/0319/1224292581861.html

850 Billion according to that ?

It says that there is potential for there to be basins for oil and gas. It doesn't say that there is actually lots of oil and gas out there.

It also costs an absolute shedload for exploratory work to see if there is any.

TheBlock

msg11 wrote: »

TheBlock wrote: »

Said in that video..

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2011/0319/1224292581861.html

850 Billion according to that ?

OK. The videos hardly impartial (infact its full of ****e) and having read the article nowhere does it say we have given away 850bn of oil and gass for nothing. Infact it doesn't even say we have 850bn worth of oil and gas because theres no way of knowing that at the moment.

msg11

TheBlock wrote: »

msg11 wrote: »

OK. The videos hardly impartial (infact its full of ****e) and having read the article nowhere does it say we have given away 850bn of oil and gass for nothing. Infact it doesn't even say we have 850bn worth of oil and gas because theres no way of knowing that at the moment.

Exactly what I was thinking, I did say I am not an expert and merely posting what I have heard.

I am pie

Let's simplify this. If i said to you i might have a tenner in my hand, but you will have to give away some of your own money to see if i actually do and then pay me some of that tenner back if indeed if do, would that sound reasonable ? Well, yes, ..only if the amount of money you had to spend was significantly less than my tenner and i was not asking for so much back that it wouldn't be worth your while finding out.

I'm Ireland. You're the company exploring for oil.

A gross over simplification, but it seems real world explanations are flying over some people's heads. Before someone points it out, i can't look in my own hand because i don't know how and it will cost me more than the tenner is worth to find out.

Paparazzo

A good rule of thumb is that if any of the Shell to Sea people say it, it's bollocks

AlmightyCushion

msg11 wrote: »

Said in that video..

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2011/0319/1224292581861.html

850 Billion according to that ?

You clearly haven't read the article while the 850 billion euro figure is thrown about the article clearly states that this is only a potential value (in fact the words could and potential are used a lot in that article). There could be 850 billion euro worth of oil in there, or there could be absolutely nothing, we don't know and we'll only find out if there is when some one digs a well.

mconigol

Samba wrote: »

Eh no, since discovering their wealth of resources they quickly realised that one day they would ultimately run out, so to safeguard against this, the Norwegian Government have been making global strategic investments so to ensure the future sustainability of their country, whether it proves to be successful is another matter but they certainly don't have their heads buried in the sand in this respect.

Norwayviking wrote: »

Did you look close enough!!!!:rolleyes:

Manufacturing, mining, and crude petroleum and gas production accounted for nearly 31% of the GDP in 2000. The most important export industries are oil and gas extraction, metalworking, pulp and paper, chemical products, and processed fish. Products traditionally classified as home market industries (electrical and nonelectrical machinery, casting and foundry products, textiles, paints, varnishes, rubber goods, and furniture) also make an important contribution. Electrochemical and electrometallurgical products—aluminum, ferroalloys, steel, nickel, copper, magnesium, and fertilizers—are based mainly on Norway's low-cost electric power. Without any bauxite reserves of its own, Norway has thus been able to become a leading producer of aluminum.

Notice I said not much other industry. What they do have certainly would not be enough to keep them in the same economic league that they are now in.

As for the investment fund, that's true that they have looked to the future however as you've said it remains to be seen how successfull that would be. They have been wise in that regard. Still doesnt't take from the fact that they are totally dependent on oil.

Holding Norway up as some shining example of all that is good is as foolish as all the hype around Ireland in the boom years in my opinion.