Ireland being RAPED... Norway lead by example!!

Norwayviking

mconigol wrote: »

Notice I said not much other industry. What they do have certainly would not be enough to keep them in the same economic league that they are now in.

As for the investment fund, that's true that they have looked to the future however as you've said it remains to be seen how successfull that would be. They have been wise in that regard. Still doesnt't take from the fact that they are totally dependent on oil.

Holding Norway up as some shining example of all that is good is as foolish as all the hype around Ireland in the boom years in my opinion.

What they do have certainly would not be enough to keep them in the same economic league that they are now in.

And since you are an expert on the subject,how do you know that???:rolleyes:


Holding Norway up as some shining example of all that is good is as foolish as all the hype around Ireland in the boom years in my opinion

That i agree on.
You cant really compare one to the other no matter what country.:)

meglome

Paparazzo wrote: »

A good rule of thumb is that if any of the Shell to Sea people say it, it's bollocks

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/1685/176461.jpg

Taken opposite Heuston Station in the last two months. It's very hard to tell if Shell to Sea have a point as they lie constantly.

mconigol

Norwayviking wrote: »

What they do have certainly would not be enough to keep them in the same economic league that they are now in.

And since you are an expert on the subject,how do you know that???:rolleyes:


Holding Norway up as some shining example of all that is good is as foolish as all the hype around Ireland in the boom years in my opinion

That i agree on.
You cant really compare one to the other no matter what country.:)

I never claimed to be an expert but it's pretty obvious that without the oil industry Norways economy would go through a major readjustment. You don't have to be an expert to realise that. Its current prosperity is heavily dependent on oil.

mickydoomsux

meglome wrote: »

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/1685/176461.jpg

Taken opposite Heuston Station in the last two months. It's very hard to tell if Shell to Sea have a point as they lie constantly.

I find the term "robbed by" to be so childish.

Did a "robber" do it? Stripey shirt and bandito mask style?

"Stolen by" is what normal adults say.

meglome

mickydoomsux wrote: »

I find the term "robbed by" to be so childish.

Did a "robber" do it? Stripey shirt and bandito mask style?

"Stolen by" is what normal adults say.

Unfortunately that's the level of their tactics.

skipz

Yes we could still be a nation of big spenders and stupid construction.
We dont see any money from this because we (well the so called FUC*WITS that ran/run this country) gave it away free of change to a country that is now the richest in europe and second in the world.
If there is any sense in Irish people to get the country going again, i think we should take back what is ours, no?

Take a look at this,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76VOnzXQMsU

--Kaiser--

More bloody nonsense. To compare the fossil fuel resources of Norway and Ireland in such a fashion is retarded. Educate yourself

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/column-for-now-ireland%E2%80%99s-oil-reserves-are-best-off-in-private-hands/

Roughly since the late 60s there has been about 130 test holes drilled in Irish waters. Of these four have produced commercial finds. Corrib and three off Kinsale. This equates to a strike rate of about 1 in 30. So in theory to find gas in Ireland you have to sink 30 wells to get 1 strike. No commercial finds of oil have yet to be found in Ireland. Compare this to Norway where the strike rate is 1 in 4. Now coupled to this Ireland’s acreage tends to be in the Atlantic, deep, rough and therefore expensive to drill (an exploration drill in the Atlantic costs about €50 million, so if you had to do that 30 times it will cost €1.5 billion) compared to the shallower North Sea. Norway just offers exploration companies a far better deal. They are offering Concorde. All we have is Ryanair’s inflight magazine.

Duggy747

Gargh, that stupid video just won't go away.

The irony of trying to educate us with a video that lies and has it's facts wrong.

hidinginthebush

Is this idiotic video still doing the rounds :mad:

"Let's walk around Norway telling randomers that Ireland has more oil than them and we give it away for free in a bid to rile up the Irish people". Ridiculous.

MagicSean

hidinginthebush wrote: »

Is this idiotic video still oding the rounds :mad:

Is it that pipe video?

hidinginthebush

MagicSean wrote: »

Is it that pipe video?

Yeah, the one where they get interviewees to say how great life is in Norway thanks to oil, then tell them that we have more oil than them and give it away for free, so the interviewees say "that's wrong". Take that science!

Duggy747

hidinginthebush wrote: »

Yeah, the one where they get interviewees to say how great life is in Norway thanks to oil, then tell them that we have more oil than them and give it away for free, so the interviewees say "that's wrong". Take that science!

I pointed out to a gullable anti-everything coporate twit of a friend on Facebook about what was wrong with this video and how it exaggarates.

Her fine retort was that it's perfectly ok to lie if it gets people on your side.

hidinginthebush

Duggy747 wrote: »

I pointed out to a gullable anti-everything coporate twit of a friend on Facebook about what was wrong with this video and how it exaggarates.

Her fine retort was that it's perfectly ok to lie if it gets people on your side.

*sigh*

Some people just won't listen to reason, they seem to be stuck in the stone age and think that just because it's on the internet, and because they went over to Norway to get the opinion of attractive young people, it must be true, and it's the evil government and corporations who are lying to us.

WoollyRedHat

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Why doesn't the coast from Dingle to Donegal look like Kuwait?

Fungi lives in Dingle, he's a national treasure, the land is sacred there.

Conor30

Duggy747 wrote: »

Gargh, that stupid video just won't go away.

The irony of trying to educate us with a video that lies and has it's facts wrong.

In your opinion, what facts are 'wrong' in the video??

A Primal Nut

I can think of four approaches towards oil exploration:

1) Libertarianism - The oil exploration company takes on all the cost of exploring, drilling and testing and takes all the profit. This might be ok in the absence of a state; obviously that doesn't apply for Ireland.

2) Capitalism - The oil exploration company takes on all the cost of exploring, drilling and testing and takes most of the profit; the Government taxes the profits at the maximum rate which won't discourage future investment. This is the approach Ireland takes on and will lead to decent profits for the Irish Government with no risks.

3) Socialism - The government takes on all the cost of exploring, drilling and testing; and takes all the profits. This is similar to the approach taken in Norway. This would lead to massive losses for the Irish Government however, due to the fact that most oil exploration off the Irish coast is unsuccessful, the occasional big oil find would not recoup the losses from all of the failed explorations. For every successful oil exploration company we hear about, there are many more we don't hear about which are unsuccessful. Private investors take on the risk because of the potential reward (and fail more often that not); that is not a good way to run a government, and would have resulted in disaster for Ireland.

4) Best of both worlds-ism - The oil exploration company takes on all the cost of exploring, drilling and testing and the government takes all the profits. For example, in Argentina. This policy is advocated by many socialists in Ireland; despite the fact that it is not Socialism at all, due to the dependency on private investment in the first place. It would give us some profits in the short-term; in the medium term it would destroy investment in Ireland; and not just future oil exploration.

If you are so confident about the prospects of exploration off the Irish coast, why not buy some shares in a few of those companies and see what happens in the next few years. Should be easy money, right.

Conor30

mickydoomsux wrote: »

I find the term "robbed by" to be so childish.

Did a "robber" do it? Stripey shirt and bandito mask style?

"Stolen by" is what normal adults say.

Robbed and stolen are often misused in English by people who don't know better, however each word is perfectly valid, depending on what you're trying to say. A person is robbed but a thing is stolen. And a house is burgled.

srsly78

Conor30 wrote: »

In your opinion, what facts are 'wrong' in the video??

Well to start with the obvious one: Ireland hasn't ever produced a single drop of oil.

Monty Burnz

Can you imagine how corrupt this country would get under the current system if we should have the misfortune to discover large amounts of oil? It doesn't bear thinking about.

Conor30

srsly78 wrote: »

Well to start with the obvious one: Ireland hasn't ever produced a single drop of oil.

Who said it had? neither had Norway until the 60's.

Fishooks12

I think AH's should have a ban on such obvious propaganda, and that's exactly what it is. Don't act like it's a fair and balanced account of the situation even if you think it's right

Colmustard

Rubbish

There has been 5 billion spent by multinational oil companies and not one commercial oil field was ever found. Only recently has someone struck oil.

So what would you have said if the Irish government had squandered 5 billion. Rightly you would be screaming murder and offer an alternative. You would say why not give a guarantee to prospective oil exploring companies that you will only pay a minimal tax on the find. That way we get a bonus tax, a new Irish industry and employment and a tax revenue from that.

That policy was one of FFs better ideas. Norways oil was guaranteed there was already wells in the northsea. Also it is shallow water oil which is cheaper to explore and harvest while our prospective finds are deep sea.

Tym

You have no idea what they said before or after they said oil. Norway's a very proud country and I sincerely doubt they'd just blurt out oil and not mention there equal society and law and order.

Also, the use of the word "rape" in this context is so incredibly inflammatory and almost made to get an angry reaction out of people who see themselves as Irish.

Colmustard

I am of the opinion we did give away to much of our fisheries, our seas have been raped to the actually endangering populations of fish such as cod.

To many factories ships working the area.

srsly78

Colmustard wrote: »

I am of the opinion we did give away to much of our fisheries, our seas have been raped to the actually endangering populations of fish such as cod.

To many factories ships working the area.

Yeah if they would only impose some kind of quota system things would be grand.

Tabnabs

Even the Cubans aren't dumb enough to go solo on subsea oil exploration.

http://gcaptain.com/cuba-offshore-drilling-finds-no-oil/

Monty Burnz

Tabnabs wrote: »

Even the Cubans aren't dumb enough to go solo on subsea oil exploration.

http://gcaptain.com/cuba-offshore-drilling-finds-no-oil/

Capitalist running dogs...

Colmustard

Its going to be close

Edit wrong thread but who cares

Love yeah Katie

hidinginthebush

Who resurrected this bollix thread?

asherbassad

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I'm no fan of socialism but when it comes to oil in gas I consider it well and truly the birth right of our people.

They're only to quick to nationalise our failed banks and debts so we should at least follow the Norwegian model of natural resource management.

??

So you think that you should get out your credit card whenever you need the services of the police, fire brigade, hospital, school, coast guard and rescue service, library, park, beach, or simply walking from a to b on a road because some fcuker privatised it and now charges tolls for you to go buy your bread and beans?

bb1234567

Ha the norwegian accent cracks me up:D '' Ile'' three letter O-I-L

Overflow

cml387 wrote: »

Do you know the price of a pint in Norway?

Well actully neither do I,but I bet it;s humungous.

Do you know how much cheaper property is compared to Ireland !! :rolleyes:











A lot cheaper.

Rented Mule

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah well Norway has Trolls. I saw a documentary about it in the cinema last week - they employ someone to hunt them and all. Crazy **** there!

I'll see their Trolls and raise them Katie Taylor !!

hatrickpatrick

cml387 wrote: »

The Irish way is to pressurise companies to drill for oil and then protest when they want to bring it ashore.

Implying the protests would ever have happened in the first place if not for numerous PR f*ck ups by Shell?

hatrickpatrick

Chuck Stone wrote: »

How deep do you think your poperty rights should extend? To the core of the Earth?

What's the problem with that...?

Should you be able to prevent people from crossing your airspace?

You can already, what do you think would happen if an Israeli fighter was to cross into Iranian airspace uninvited for example? Or a Mexican plane into the US?

AlmightyCushion

Overflow wrote: »

Do you know how much cheaper property is compared to Ireland !! :rolleyes:

A lot cheaper.

Are you sure?

http://www.numbeo.com/LivingCost/property-investment/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=Norway&country2=Ireland

Conor30 wrote: »

In your opinion, what facts are 'wrong' in the video??

The comparison between Ireland and Norway itself is very misleading. Norway is one of the world's largest oil and gas exporters. If you search for oil/gas in Norway you'll spend less money, have a better chance of finding reserves and if you do find reserves changes are the field will produce more oil and gas than an Irish field. If you don't find anything in Norway then the government there will reimburse you for 80% of what you spent. If he explained this people would probably understand why there is a difference in our taxation policies.

Also, he doesn't explain that Norway had a similar model to the one we are using now until there was a massive oil field found. They then decided to change their taxation policy.

If he gave the people this information (instead of filling them full of crap and lies) their responses would more than likely be different.

As for the lies themselves, he doesn't say a lot so this is quite short but more or less everything he says is a lie (I'll take his word that Norway is a beautiful country).
He says that the government gave away our oil and gas and that the Irish people get 0. This is a lie. The government gave exploration licenses and we'll get between 25% and 40% of the profits. The funny thing is one woman says the Irish government should take a percentage of the oil revenues and another says we should take our share. That's what we are actually doing.

He says that statoil has a 36% stake (later on he says 25% so he doesn't seem all that sure of his own figures) in an Irish gas field worth 14 billion and that the Irish will get nothing from it. No idea what field he's referring to (he doesn't state) but as above we will get between 25% and 40% of the profits.

The €540 billion is based on seismic and geological data which can give a general indication of the possibility of oil/gas but it can be very inaccurate. Their could be €500 billion of oil and gas, there could be nothing or there could be somewhere in between. We won't know until someone digs a well and checks and that is expensive. The Irish government decided that the private sector should cover the costs and take the risk of losing billions and let the state take a slice of the profits.

Einhard

I wouldn't bother trying to point out that Norway and Ireland cannot be compared when it comes to petro-chemical resources. The people who make such claims are frankly devoid of any logic on the matter. One can present any amount of factual evidence on the matter and they simply ignore. They're the equivalent of American Creationists- they don't give a hoot about the evidence, and instead rant and rave and use bluster and obfuscation. So no point even arguing with them anymore. You'd think with Ireland being so obviously overflowing with oil and gas that an awful lot more companies would be hankering after the place. Ooops sorry...I strayed into the realm of the factual!! Can't have that in such a debate. Yeah sorry, Ireland is like Saudi Arabia and Russia and Norway, and ye drop a sharp fork in the ground and oil pops out, and all the coirrupt politicians are giving it away for free. That's more like it...

Colmustard

Einhard wrote: »

I wouldn't bother trying to point out that Norway and Ireland cannot be compared when it comes to petro-chemical resources. The people who make such claims are frankly devoid of any logic on the matter. One can present any amount of factual evidence on the matter and they simply ignore. They're the equivalent of American Creationists- they don't give a hoot about the evidence, and instead rant and rave and use bluster and obfuscation. So no point even arguing with them anymore. You'd think with Ireland being so obviously overflowing with oil and gas that an awful lot more companies would be hankering after the place. Ooops sorry...I strayed into the realm of the factual!! Can't have that in such a debate. Yeah sorry, Ireland is like Saudi Arabia and Russia and Norway, and ye drop a sharp fork in the ground and oil pops out, and all the coirrupt politicians are giving it away for free. That's more like it...

There was over 200 applications to drill in the Northsea, about 15 for Ireland in the last 10 years.

But they will be coming now as a large commercial field has been found.

Around the Rockall basin has all the geology of a very big field of oil. Although the rock is closer to the British mainland it is on our continental shelf so it will be ours.

alastair

Colmustard wrote: »

There was over 200 applications to drill in the Northsea, about 15 for Ireland in the last 10 years.

But they will be coming now as a large commercial field has been found.

Around the Rockall basin has all the geology of a very big field of oil. Although the rock is closer to the British mainland it is on our continental shelf so it will be ours.

Don't know how you figure that - it would appear that the basin has been split by agreement between Ireland and the UK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockall#Irish_claims_to_areas_around_Rockall

Colmustard

alastair wrote: »

Don't know how you figure that - it would appear that the basin has been split by agreement between Ireland and the UK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockall#Irish_claims_to_areas_around_Rockall

Historically, the Irish claim to the rock was based on its distance from a mainland[46] (the islet being nearer to the island of Ireland (specifically County Donegal, Republic of Ireland) than to the island of Great Britain) while the UK's claim was based on Rockall's distance from the Western Isles. Rockall is 430 kilometres (270 mi) from County Donegal.[47] Ireland regards Rockall as merely an uninhabitable rock without any territorial waters and thus irrelevant when determining the boundaries of the exclusive economic zones.[48][49]
According to a Written Parliamentary Answer from the Irish Minister of Foreign Affairs on 14 June 1990, an agreement[28][28] was reached between the British and Irish governments on delimitation of the continental shelf between the two countries and that this included a line of delimitation across the Rockall Plateau.[50] As a result, a very extensive area under Irish jurisdiction, including part of the Rockall Trough and Plateau, is not disputed by the United Kingdom. No further negotiations were taking place in relation to the rock at the time.
More recently, on 11 June 2003, the Irish Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources gave a Written Parliamentary Answer, stating: "Ireland claims an extended continental shelf ... up to more than 500 nautical miles (926 km), particularly in the Hatton–Rockall area".[51]
As the United Nations[52] has no mandate regarding issues of delimitation between neighbouring states and cannot consider an area under dispute without the agreement of all the parties concerned, Ireland has participated in informal discussions with Iceland and the Faroe Islands in an attempt to resolve the dispute before making its submission to the Commission.

I don't quite understand that.

the keen edge

The people who are usually prattling on about Ireland being raped by oil and gas companies for some bizarre seem to economically equate a barrel of Irish oil landed onshore; with that of a barrel of oil, 1000 metres below a seabed 1500 metres below the sea surface, and at that a barrel of oil that may not even exist!

alastair

Colmustard wrote: »

I don't quite understand that.

We've come to an understanding with the UK over which bits we each claim, and where the dividing line is, so it's down to sorting out the final agreemenet with Iceland and the Faroes over which areas are their bits.

long range shooter

Overflow wrote: »

Do you know how much cheaper property is compared to Ireland !! :rolleyes:











A lot cheaper.

Last time i looked the prices was nearly double of the prices here in Ireland?????

long range shooter

Rented Mule wrote: »

I'll see their Trolls and raise them Katie Taylor !!

Ever heard of a Norwegian Troll named Cecilia Brækhus.Think Katie would be crawling back to Ireland again,lol.;):D:D

poeticseraphim

I don't know much about the oil trade.

But would it be possible to lease it.

We could pssoibly do that for other state contracts and natural resources.

I know in China the state does it.

Monty Burnz

poeticseraphim wrote: »

I don't know much about the oil trade.

But would it be possible to lease it.

We could pssoibly do that for other state contracts and natural resources.

I know in China the state does it.

You can only lease/sell something that has proven value. That's the problem - there are no proven economically viable oil strikes in Irish territorial waters. And until they are proven, people need to risk money in looking for it. Drilling a well costs something like €50,000,000 - and there's no guarantee you'll ever find anything worth extracting. What company would risk that sort of money without a guaranteed return should they get lucky?

Duggy747

If the gubbernment were to foot the bill for the exploration you'd be damn well sure to expect protests from people accusing them of wasting money on explorations that didn't have a 100% success rate instead of using an outside source with deep pockets and then tax the amount they extract.

It would be a case of "solve Ireland's problems first before drilling"

bodice ripper

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

What's the problem with that...?

bits of the inside of the earth are moving about...?

MagicSean

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

What's the problem with that...?

Proportionality? A square mile on the surface would likely only be a few square feet, maybe less at the core.

cgarrad

The Irish government drilling for oil must be one of the most ill advised ideas this year.

They can hardly get the peat from the bogs without the staff going on strike.