The Official After Hours Presidential Election Thread **POLL RESET 23/10**

newballsplease

Still cant believe the amount of votes for David Norris on this thread!:(

Il admit i voted MMG firstly, now ive changed my mind. Ofcourse the poll wont reflect this tho:o

Now voting Michael D Higgins.

seamus

geeky wrote: »

If there's anything positive we can take from this truly horrible election, it's this: People now know welfare fraud isn't just committed by poor people.

He wasn't claiming state benefits.

It does reveal though that Norris has been existing for a bit too long in the academic/state-paid bubble, a bit disconnected from the realities of the dirty politics game.

My suspicion on this is that he gave up lecturing because he was having some form of difficulty with his sight, and as per some form of internal policy, Trinity college probably insisted that he take a disability payment. Of course, with the Aras race not existing at that point, and with a state body/academic mindset, he would accept this payment because it would be seen as normal.

This kind of mandatory payments for frivilous things goes on all the time in these sheltered institutions, particularly state-funded bodies, and those involved see no issue receiving payments which if they looked seriously at, they would realise they shouldn't strictly speaking be accepting.

It's a cultural thing in state bodies, and it wouldn't surprise me if Norris was too embroiled in that culture to realise how such things would appear to the regular person.

StephenHendry

voting for norris, i see they have another 'scandal' on him. this to do with him supposedly claiming some allowances in his role as a senator.

Fishooks12

seamus wrote: »

He wasn't claiming state benefits.

It does reveal though that Norris has been existing for a bit too long in the academic/state-paid bubble, a bit disconnected from the realities of the dirty politics game.

My suspicion on this is that he gave up lecturing because he was having some form of difficulty with his sight, and as per some form of internal policy, Trinity college probably insisted that he take a disability payment. Of course, with the Aras race not existing at that point, and with a state body/academic mindset, he would accept this payment because it would be seen as normal.

This kind of mandatory payments for frivilous things goes on all the time in these sheltered institutions, particularly state-funded bodies, and those involved see no issue receiving payments which if they looked seriously at, they would realise they shouldn't strictly speaking be accepting.

It's a cultural thing in state bodies, and it wouldn't surprise me if Norris was too embroiled in that culture to realise how such things would appear to the regular person.

Haha, Norris fanboys crack me up

He's didn't realise how it would look? Yet another reason why Norris is too flawed to ever be in the Aras

Fishooks12

StephenHendry wrote: »

voting for norris, i see they have another 'scandal' on him. this to do with him supposedly claiming some allowances in his role as a senator.

Yes he claimed disability welfare while receiving a full state wage as a senator.

If it was any other candidiate that did it the Norris weak minded wannabe lefty brigade would be up in arms

Morlar

StephenHendry wrote: »

voting for norris, i see they have another 'scandal' on him. this to do with him supposedly claiming some allowances in his role as a senator.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/presidential-election/norris-claimed-disability-payments-for-16-years-2896213.html

Independent.ie
Norris claimed disability payments for 16 years

But senator won't say how much he received

By Fiach Kelly Political Correspondent
Wednesday October 05 2011

INDEPENDENT presidential candidate David Norris received a disability payment for 16 years while out of work as a Trinity College lecturer -- even though he was a "full-time" senator for the entire period.

Mr Norris confirmed to the Irish Independent last night he received the payment, but could not specify exactly how much it was worth.

He also refused to say what his disability is.

He said the payment was around a quarter of his annual salary, but said he "wasn't getting anything like they get now".

The 67-year-old Joycean scholar worked as a tutor and lecturer in Trinity between 1968 and 1994, when he took the disability payment and stopped working in the college.

The payment began in 1994 and ended in July of last year, when he reached pension age. He has since received a pension from the college, worth around €2,500 a month.

Mr Norris, who took part in last night's TV3 debate with his six Aras rivals, also receives a senator's salary of €61,073.

He also said he spent his annual leader's allowance -- the €23,383 Independent senators receive in unvouched expenses every year -- on his Seanad work.

Mr Norris, who was first elected as a senator for Trinity in 1987 and has been returned at every election since, focused on his Seanad career after 1994. However, he would not say what the disability was, and insisted it did not stand in his way of being president, insisting he is in "perfect health".

"And if you look at my Seanad record you see that. I hope we're not going down the medical route of all this but I will do any medical test you want. I just think this is getting daft. It shows how open I am, my life is an open book."

But he asked not to go into the disability payment, saying there "was a whole story about that".

- Fiach Kelly Political Correspondent

Response

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1005/president.html

Asked about this morning's Irish Independent story about his disability pension, Senator Norris said in 1994 he was abroad and contracted an illness. He didn't know what it was, and was quite unwell.

He spent some weeks in hospital, and it turned out he had Hepatitis. It was a serious illness, which had to be managed and which drained energy.

Senator Norris was given medical advice that it was not possible to continue with his academic duties.

After a year, the Trinity College authorities proposed that he should go on what they called "permanent disability".

He was examined by an independent medical consultant, who confirmed the situation and the university then employed a replacement. He said he was then at the suggestion of the Trinity authorities in receipt of a disability pension.

As part of that agreement he was required never to give any further lectures, and he honoured that agreement.

He said he was put in a position through illness to concentrate full time on his duties in the Seanad. He said he now feels a great deal better, but he is "quite careful" about taking alcohol and takes exercise.

Senator Norris added that he was entitled to a small State contributory pension but did not take it as he believed there were more important calls on the Exchequer.

He said his pension at the moment was approximately €2,500 per month, but he could not give an exact figure. But he said he had no problem with Trinity giving the details if journalists wished to ask.

He said he had Hepatitis, non A, non B and non C, and it was probably contracted from water in Central Europe.

Asked about his legal advice about his clemency, he said his legal advisors were Michael O'Higggins SC, instructed by Beauchamp Solicitors, and a firm of solicitors in Haifa, Israel.

He said he wrote a number of letters to his partner's lawyers, giving advice and making suggestions which he felt might be helpful.

His Israeli solicitors had advised that any attempt to publish letters between lawyers and a person acting on behalf of the accused would leave him open to recourse in the Israeli courts by any person affected.

Mr Norris said he also wrote a number of letters to public representatives and to the Israeli Embassy, and these would not be published either.

He said the defendant and other people connected with the case had rights.

I don't get how he was so disabled as to be unable to work in Trinity and arm-twisted by them into taking an ongoing disability payment for 16 yrs.


AT The SAME TIME that he was too disabled for Trinity he was able to work as a senator on full senator salary & associated benefits.

newballsplease

Is there any homosexual presidents?

Fishooks12

newballsplease wrote: »

Is there any homosexual presidents?

I think I've heard of one in South America somewhere.

Some Irish people seem hell bent on Ireland having one despite how flawed he may be

The_Kew_Tour

Their all a bunch of Cowboys Ted

newballsplease

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I think I've heard of one in South America somewhere.

Some Irish people seem hell bent on Ireland having one despite how flawed he may be

Presume thats where he will get alot of his votes. Homosexuals and friends of those.


WATCH FOR THE BACKLASH.......

Fishooks12

newballsplease wrote: »

Presume thats where he will get alot of his votes. Homosexuals and friends of those.


WATCH FOR THE BACKLASH.......

No I'm just suggesting that many of the Norris voters like the idea of a gay president and are willing to blindly ignore his poor judgement.

He's a very intelligent man but I won't be voting for him with all the skeletons in his closet (many of which have been dragged out in recent months)

efb

newballsplease wrote: »

Presume thats where he will get alot of his votes. Homosexuals and friends of those.


WATCH FOR THE BACKLASH.......

I sure dana will only get votes from Cathoilic Zealots and friends of those...

So does that mean that if Norris polls higher than Dana, there are more gays and friends of the gays, than zealot catholics and friends of the zealots????

Fishooks12

efb wrote: »

I sure dana will only get votes from Cathoilic Zealots and friends of those...

So does that mean that if Norris polls higher than Dana, there are more gays and friends of the gays, than zealot catholics and friends of the zealots????

read my reply to newballsplease, It's a section of Norris support, not all of it as your trying to imply I was referring to

efb

Fishooks12 wrote: »

read my reply to newballsplease, It's a section of Norris support, not all of it as your trying to imply I was referring to

Who are his other supporters?

efb

Morlar wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/presidential-election/norris-claimed-disability-payments-for-16-years-2896213.html



Response

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1005/president.html




I don't get how he was so disabled as to be unable to work in Trinity and arm-twisted by them into taking an ongoing disability payment for 16 yrs.


AT The SAME TIME that he was too disabled for Trinity he was able to work as a senator on full senator salary & associated benefits.

Your disability can prevent you from doing some things- it doesn't make you incapacitated completely.

seamus

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Haha, Norris fanboys crack me up

You anyone-but-norris guys crack me up too.

I don't see a single line in my post defending Norris's receipt of these payments, simply offering an explanation.

From looking at the response on RTE News, it looks like I nailed it (except for the illness). It's certainly disappointing, because it does demonstrate that Norris is culturally ingrained in the state-paid mindset, but I don't find it at all shocking or scandalous. You will find hundreds, if not thousands of other examples of people being paid by state bodies basically for nothing, and at the same time considering themselves entitled to these payments.

Does it make it OK? Of course not. Does it mean that Norris was wrong to take them? Well no. I would. You would. Pretty much everyone would.
But it does indicate a definite disconnect from the average Joe that Norris would continue to take these payments and not think that it was odd or that it would come back to bite him.

Fishooks12

efb wrote: »

Who are his other supporters?

People who are willing to forgive his flaws or who choose not to register them and see his positives as outweighing them.

Norris does have a lot of positives, don't think he's suitable to be president though

newballsplease

Fishooks12 wrote: »

No I'm just suggesting that many of the Norris voters like the idea of a gay president and are willing to blindly ignore his poor judgement.

He's a very intelligent man but I won't be voting for him with all the skeletons in his closet (many of which have been dragged out in recent months)

Same reason...and yes I voted for MMG in poll! now voting M.D.H

Da Shins Kelly

newballsplease wrote: »

Is there any homosexual presidents?

No. If David Norris is elected he'd be the first openly gay head of state ever.

Fishooks12

seamus wrote: »

You anyone-but-norris guys crack me up too.

I don't see a single line in my post defending Norris's receipt of these payments, simply offering an explanation.

From looking at the response on RTE News, it looks like I nailed it (except for the illness). It's certainly disappointing, because it does demonstrate that Norris is culturally ingrained in the state-paid mindset, but I don't find it at all shocking or scandalous. You will find hundreds, if not thousands of other examples of people being paid by state bodies basically for nothing, and at the same time considering themselves entitled to these payments.

Does it make it OK? Of course not. But it does indicate a definite disconnect from the average Joe that Norris would continue to take these payments and think nothing of it.

I'm not an anyone but Norris guy, in fact I was planning to vote for him up to a few months ago. You say it happens regularly and that doesn't make it right, so should we not demand a higher standard from our potential president?

efb

So Mitchell, Scallon, Davies and Gallahger aren't up to the job,
McGuinness and Norris have too many skeletons
So Michael D Higgins it is.

efb

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

No. If David Norris is elected he'd be the first openly gay head of state ever.

I take it you are joking???

efb

Icelandic PM

newballsplease

efb wrote: »

So Mitchell, Scallon, Davies and Gallahger aren't up to the job,
McGuinness and Norris have too many skeletons
So Michael D Higgins it is.

Thats it!

Morlar

seamus wrote: »

Does it mean that Norris was wrong to take them? Well no. I would. You would. Pretty much everyone would.

Speak for yourself.

I would not feel entitled to simultaneously claim a disability beneift of approx 30k per year for 16 yrs all the while being in a well paid taxpayer funded and expensed job as a senator.

Fishooks12

efb wrote: »

So Mitchell, Scallon, Davies and Gallahger aren't up to the job,
McGuinness and Norris have too many skeletons
So Michael D Higgins it is.

Michael D is by far the safest bet and has the election wrapped up already tbh. Norris and McGuinness, the only two with a realistic chance, won't be transfer friendly enough

And who's complaining? Michael D will do a great job (provided he doesn't pop the clogs)

newballsplease

efb wrote: »

Icelandic PM

thats not head of state is it?

Da Shins Kelly

efb wrote: »

I take it you are joking???

No, look it up. Can you name any other head of state that was/is openly gay?

efb

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/world-gets-its-first-gay-leader-1519068.html

Da Shins Kelly

efb wrote: »

Icelandic PM

She is not their head of state. She is the head of government.