The Official After Hours Presidential Election Thread **POLL RESET 23/10**

Delta Kilo

I think people dont realise Martin McGuinnesses social background and the culture in which he was brought up in.

What sparked his interest in joining forces such as the IRA was civil rights. The Catholic people of Derry were oppressed by Unionist leaders. Gerrymandering and corruption was rife. People like John Hume, Martin McGuinness et al sought a change in this and demonstrated on the streets of Derry, being gunned down on Bloody Sunday 1972 in the process.

I did a tour of the city and the guide was a former prisoner, released under the Good Friday agreement. Before I went to Derry I didnt really know what it was all about, and I guess you kind of have to go there to experience it to understand. Martin McGuinness was 21 on Bloody Sunday. Like the way college students of today try and protest and lobby and campaign for change, young mcguinness entered what was happening in his social and cultural setting. You cant blame him for that 40 years later.

His story is remarkably similar to Nelson Mandela's:

In 1961 Mandela became leader of the ANC's armed wing, Umkhonto we Sizwe (translated Spear of the Nation, and also abbreviated MK), which he co-founded

Yet people dont view Mandela as a terrorist nowadays, but a nobel peace prize winner and model citizen. He stood up for what he belived in (violently), so did McGuinness. I like someone who has a proven record of standing up for what he believes in. Not someone who lived a sheltered life in government quangos or someone who has abused their position for personal gain.

I know who I will be voting for.

Fishooks12

MungBean wrote: »

You cant be a very good journalist if your incapable of reading a post. How is it a conspiracy to say that media wants to make money and that drama makes money ? Also I never said anyone else had anything to hide or their finances were not reported on. I said (let me quote this for you incase you get confused and cant figure out how to scroll back up)



God help whatever rag your working for is all I can say.

Bit passive aggressive are we?

I read your bull**** post and I know exactly what you were trying to imply, be it indirectly or directly.

MungBean

Morlar wrote: »

Norris has no excuse in blaming the media. If other candidates did as he did they'd be long gone by now. He's the author of his own misfortune.

I wasnt aware Norris was blaming the media. All I'm saying is that the greater exposure someone has to bad publicity to greater it affects them. Those letters to my mind shouldnt affect him but people love a drama its all over the media and it affects him greatly.

Just as it would if he said he eat meat, veggies wouldnt vote for him. Its small things that have little to do with the presidency. Lots of people think McGuinness leaving the IRA is a non issue yet its constantly being dragged up and that will affect his chances because he doesnt get much of an opportunity (like norris) to do anything but defend himself. Where the others get to talk about what they could do with the position.

Bannasidhe

Fishooks12 wrote: »

The senator Norris for President FB page is good for a laugh.

The double standards of some of the wish-wash wannabe liberals on it beggars belief. One of them even wrote that

"David is the target of a media smear campaign (who are all homophobic anyway). He'll be the best president we will ever have and I'm sure he'll drag us out of this recession"

Obviously a journalist who believes in objective, unbiased reportage and has no political agenda.

siltirocker

seamus wrote: »

Let's put it this way:

You work for a company, sitting at a computer. You develop RSI, which makes it impossible to use a computer all day any more, and a doctor confirms this. Your employer turns to you and says, "You can't work for us anymore, but company policy says that we will pay you until you retire, and you are not restricted from working elsewhere".
You're telling me you'd turn around and say, "Ah no, it's grand, I don't want the money.". My arse you would.

Anyone who says that they would turn down money being legitimately and freely given to them is either deluded about themselves or plain lying.

You make a very valid point. But you seem to forget (everyone else on the thread too) that Norris was still lecturing with Trinity up until 2 years ago when he turned 65 and retired.

Fishooks12

MungBean wrote: »

Those letters to my mind shouldnt affect him

Thank god people like you will be in the minority come polling day. You see most reasonable Irish people have a problem with a Senator using his Governmental powers to plea clemency for an ex lover who had sex with a 15 year old boy.

Fishooks12

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Obviously a journalist who believes in objective, unbiased reportage and has no political agenda.

This is boards, not my paper. I can air my personal views as much as I want here. I can assure you everything else I write for work is unbiased.

You do realise journalists have opinions like everyone else?!

Madam

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Did you? I didn't - I grew up in the Republic of Ireland and no Brits oppressed me (the RCC had a monopoly on repression/oppression at the time) or me Mammy and daddy before me.

My granny did have a gun held to her head by the Tans tho - about 90 years ago. Her childhood home was regularly raided as her brother had been jailed for sedition (he was 14 at the time). Her aunt was killed in the Upton massacre and her 8 month pregnant mother seriously injured. Her mother's cousin was summarily executed by the Tans...

She was a life long republican and passionate and vocal advocate of a United Ireland (she enjoyed winding up soldiers outside banks by calling them 'Free Staters' even into her 80s)

YET - She hated PSF/PIRA with a passion considering them nothing but murders, cowards and thieves and when they turned up at her brother's funeral in the 1970s to give him an unrequested and unwanted 21 gun salute (he fought with distinction in the war of Independence) she wielded her large little old lady handbag with fury -battered them and their balaclavas out the gates of St Finbar's Cemetery in Cork and down the road. We're still laughing about it, watching these brave (if anonymous) heroes scattering down the road perused by a very small woman (5' at a stretch) in her 60s who had survived the Auxies, the Tans, the War of Independence, the burning of Cork and the Civil War and would who not tolerate having Provos at the graveside of her beloved brother.

Does that count as fighting to protect your own?

Why was'nt the Irish army there to see them on their way, surely if your great uncle was in the war of independence he would have had a salute(I know my grandfather did)?:)

lanomist

Am leaning towards voting for Michael D. Has he said if he will give up his four pensions. One from UCG, Dail, ministerial and european ???

Bannasidhe

siltirocker wrote: »

You make a very valid point. But you seem to forget (everyone else on the thread too) that Norris was still lecturing with Trinity up until 2 years ago when he turned 65 and retired.

Also not unusual - and a source of great frustration to all post-grads and new PhDs. All of the universities routinely bring back retired staff to provide lecture cover when staff are sick, at conferences etc.

The hiring bar and lack of funds for short-term contracts means they can't employ anyone unless there is outside funding in place for that specific post (sabbaticals usually) - other lecturers are usually swamped so can't fit any more in - so they call on retired staff with expertise in the required area to fill the void.
When a currently employed lecturer does fill in for an absent colleague it's known as Guerilla Lecturing - very fast research to cover the basics and hope to god they don't attack directly or you will be dangerously exposed.

MungBean

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Bit passive aggressive are we?

I read your bull**** post and I know exactly what you were trying to imply, be it indirectly or directly.

And calling me passive aggressive. Seeing as my post was bullshít why respond to it ? Is this the limit of your journalism ? Calling what you disagree with bullshít ?

The_Kew_Tour

lanomist wrote: »

Am leaning towards voting for Michael D. Has he said if he will give up his four pensions. One from UCG, Dail, ministerial and european ???

Your willing to vote for a guy who should not be claiming 4 pensions in the first place?

Fishooks12

MungBean wrote: »

And calling me passive aggressive. Seeing as my post was bullshít why respond to it ? Is this the limit of your journalism ? Calling what you disagree with bullshít ?

I felt need to point out that this media conspiracy against Norris you're cooking up doesn't exist. We've been looking at the personal and financial records of every candidate in the last few weeks and will report any discrepancy's.

Norris just has far more than the other candidates (with the exception of McGuinness).

siltirocker

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Your willing to vote for a guy who should not be claiming 4 pensions in the first place?

Why should he not claim his pensions in the first place?

Did he not work for those groups?

MungBean

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Thank god people like you will be in the minority come polling day. You see most reasonable Irish people have a problem with a Senator using his Governmental powers to plea clemency for an ex lover who had sex with a 15 year old boy.

Yes thank god people like me who are capable of looking at these things objectively are in the minority so to avoid anything that might upset the oh so intellectually superior majority.

Norris attained his signatures to run for the presidency from democratically elected members of the Dail with the information about the letters widely known. All of which MUST have deemed it not an issue that should affect him. Just because you have issue with it doesnt mean everyone else does. And even if they do it doesnt mean it should affect his presidential abilities. So much for non biased objective journalism void of political agenda indeed.

Bannasidhe

Madam wrote: »

Why was'nt the Irish army there to see them on their way, surely if your great uncle was in the war of independence he would have had a salute(I know my grandfather did)?:)

No idea - I was only about 6 at the time. All I saw was a group of people suddenly step out from the large crowd with balaclavas on and raise rifles - then my grandmother went ape with the handbag, calling the cowardly murders who were shaming her brother's memory and laid into them like the Tasmanian Devil in the cartoons. I thought it was brilliant but I had no idea what the hell was going on at the time - and it was my first funeral so as far as I knew this was normal.

The family may have requested no Irish Army salute (they did still very much consider them to be the Free State army) - that was the impression I got from my great-aunt but That funeral was not a subject to raised within a mile of my grandmother unless you wanted to hear a rant about the Provos!

Fishooks12

This whole debate is a bit of a dead duck anyway. Michael D is going to walk the election by the fact that has none of the baggage associated with any of the other main contenders.

siltirocker

MungBean wrote: »

Norris attained his signatures to run for the presidency from democratically elected members of the Dail with the information about the letters widely known. All of which MUST have deemed it not an issue that should affect him.

Well I and many of the citizens of this country DO find statutory rape an issue.

staker

If he had baggage he wouldn't be able to carry it the poor sod.

Fishooks12

MungBean wrote: »

Yes thank god people like me who are capable of looking at these things objectively are in the minority so to avoid anything that might upset the oh so intellectually superior majority.

Norris attained his signatures to run for the presidency from democratically elected members of the Dail with the information about the letters widely known. All of which MUST have deemed it not an issue that should affect him. Just because you have issue with it doesnt mean everyone else does. And even if they do it doesnt mean it should affect his presidential abilities. So much for non biased objective journalism void of political agenda indeed.

As I've pointed out before, you realise this isn't a paper?? I'm as entitled to my views as much as the next person, doesn't mean I'm biased when I work though.

I'll think you'll find the issue is a huge point for many voters, hence why Norris went from 10/11 favourite to 6/1 outsider since they broke.

Ironic that your championing a liberal candidate yet chastising me for having airing my own views in an independent anonymous website.

I was actually going to vote for Norris before I learned of all his poor judgement and now the fact that he's a welfare cheat.

Bannasidhe

Fishooks12 wrote: »

This is boards, not my paper. I can air my personal views as much as I want here. I can assure you everything else I write for work is unbiased.

You do realise journalists have opinions like everyone else?!

I do - I've had to listen to them expressed by journalist friends for decades.
I am also in a profession that requires objective analysis and writing and fully aware one's bias can sub-consciously affect one's work.

Morlar

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1005/breaking18.html?via=mr

Norris got TCD disability pay

STEVEN CARROLL and CÍAN NIHIL

Wed, Oct 05, 2011

Presidential candidate Senator David Norris has said he received disability payments from Trinity College Dublin for 16 years, while continuing to serve as a Senator, after contracting hepatitis.

Speaking at the launch of his campaign in Dublin today, Mr Norris said he fell ill with hepatitis and spent a number of weeks in hospital in 1994 after drinking contaminated water during a visit to Europe.

He said he felt drained of energy as a result of the illness and that despite previously being capable of carrying out both jobs, he was medically advised to no longer take on the stress of his lecturing duties.

Mr Norris said the situation continued for about a year and at that point the university told him his situation was “untenable” and advised that he go on permanent disability. A lecturer was hired as his replacement and Mr Norris was compelled not to lecture elsewhere under the agreement, he said.

Asked how much he received in payments, Mr Norris said he was “not very good with arithmetic” but that his pension now was approximately €2,500 per month, which was paid by Trinity College and not the State.

“I think it would be dishonest of me to pretend that I could give you an exact figure…if you wish to find it out you have my permission,” he said. “Might I say this, those were different times. That’s 1994. I think in the present circumstances I would have possibly had some hesitations.”



Mr Norris (67), who had worked at Trinity since 1968, said he had no doubt that he was healthy enough to take on the role of president.

“I feel a great deal better,” he said, adding that he followed a rigorous exercise regime and rarely consumed alcohol following his diagnosis.

In a statement, Trinity College Dublin said data protection legislation prevents it from disclosing personal information in respect of staff members or former staff members.

“The college can confirm that Senator Norris worked as a lecturer in Trinity College from 1968 and he retired at normal retirement age in September 2009,” it said. “In general, income protection insurers, who operate independently of the college, have rigorous medical assessment processes in place for the initial and continuing admittance of claims to their income protection schemes.”

Questioned about his recent silence over letters he wrote seeking clemency for his former partner Ezra Nawi, Mr Norris said he was acting on legal advice from Israeli and Irish lawyers - including barrister Michael O’Higgins and a Haifa based firm- which prevented him from disclosing any more information.

“This case involved real people. It changed their lives and left deep scars. I do not want to be the person who rips these scars open again and puts them on public display.”

Mr Norris said Israeli law said nothing should be published about a closed case with approval of the court and that attempts to do so would breach confidentiality and leave him open to recourse.
He said he also wrote a “small number of letters” to public representatives and the Israeli Embassy concerning the statutory rape case.

Mr Norris said he could say no more about the situation on the basis of legal advice he had received.

Asked if the controversy over the payments and letters had effected his credibility, Mr Norris said it was a matter for the public to decide if it was a problem but that he was pleased with the reaction he had received to date.

Of his overall campaign, Mr Norris said the Irish people deserved “a fair, open and transparent contest for the highest office in the land, one that helps us all work out, with clarity, the kind of society we want”.

“It is my dream that by placing human rights at the heart of my campaign, by inviting people in from the margins of society, I will use the office of president to effect the changes that we all know, in our hearts, are right for this country.”

This morning, Independent candidate Mary Davis said transparency was important.

"I think it is important for everybody to be transparent and it is up to David Norris really to explain that one," she said.

"It is up to each candidate in relation to their own background and what has and what has not happened in the past - I think if anything comes up in somebody's past yes I think that it should be explained."

Ms Davis highlighted that she had called for an open and clean campaign earlier this week, when she revealed earnings as a result of appointments to State boards. "This is for the highest office of the land it is for a non-political role but it is a political route to get to a non-political role."

© 2011 irishtimes.com

Am I the only person who thinks that Norris is relying on the data protection restrictions preventing Trinity from disclosing the exact amount of money he recieved for being disabled while simultaneously working fulltime as a Senator ?

His excuse this time is 'Ask Trinity'. Knowing their hands are tied.

Why does he not reveal the amount of money himself ?

He has stated the figures went up and went down - I have a feeling that the 2.5k per month (After tax ? ) is not the full story here.

Yet again he is refusing to come clean, hiding behind flimsy unconvincing excuses.

Fishooks12

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I do - I've had to listen to them expressed by journalist friends for decades.
I am also in a profession that requires objective analysis and writing and fully aware one's bias can sub-consciously affect one's work.

Yes and how are you of the opinion that it effects my work? You don't know my name, what paper or anything about me for that matter to make such a judgement

MungBean

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I felt need to point out that this media conspiracy against Norris you're cooking up doesn't exist. We've been looking at the personal and financial records of every candidate in the last few weeks and will report any discrepancy's.

Norris just has far more than the other candidates (with the exception of McGuinness).

Once again calling it a conspiracy. What conspiracy ? It no secret the media is focusing on Norris and McGuinnes because thats where the drama is.

And its the fact that small discrepancies will be published but overall history ignored is the point I was making. Norris's disability benefit will be headline news, while the huge sums others have gotten ignored because they are not necessarily discrepancies so there is no drama to attach to.

Wolfe Tone

Martin is after releasing a bank statement showing his income, maybe others should do the same.

cowzerp

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Did you? I didn't - I grew up in the Republic of Ireland and no Brits oppressed me (the RCC had a monopoly on repression/oppression at the time) or me Mammy and daddy before me.




YET - She hated PSF/PIRA with a passion considering them nothing but murders, cowards and thieves and when they turned up at her brother's funeral in the 1970s to give him an unrequested and unwanted 21 gun salute (he fought with distinction in the war of Independence) she wielded her large little old lady handbag with fury -battered them and their balaclavas out the gates of St Finbar's Cemetery in Cork and down the road. We're still laughing about it, watching these brave (if anonymous) heroes scattering down the road perused by a very small woman (5' at a stretch) in her 60s who had survived the Auxies, the Tans, the War of Independence, the burning of Cork and the Civil War and would who not tolerate having Provos at the graveside of her beloved brother.

Does that count as fighting to protect your own?

I would have if they came down my area burning us out of our homes-I was not born when that all kicked off and I'm neither claiming to be a hero or am I running for president

Your granny simply followed the old ira-most likely thought the oira where great, not so great when they let loyalist mobs burn whole communities out of there homes-again how you view the present and how the past with more knowledge plays it's part here.

Just Like you I'm sure your granny was ignorant to what was going on.

But she's your precious granny so I'm so bad for saying that!

MungBean

siltirocker wrote: »

Well I and many of the citizens of this country DO find statutory rape an issue.

Sweet jesus talk about a fcukin strawman. You honestly think I was saying people dont find statutory rape an issue, are you that thick as to get that from my post ???? Explain yourself man !!!!!!!!!

Bannasidhe

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Yes and how are you of the opinion that it effects my work? You don't know my name, what paper or anything about me for that matter to make such a judgement

Didn't say it did - said it could without you being aware of it.

I know it's something I have to constantly be watchful for in my own profession -

Lord Trollington

Fishooks12 wrote: »

As I've pointed out before, you realise this isn't a paper?? I'm as entitled to my views as much as the next person, doesn't mean I'm biased when I work though.

I'll think you'll find the issue is a huge point for many voters, hence why Norris went from 10/11 favourite to 6/1 outsider since they broke.

Ironic that your championing a liberal candidate yet chastising me for having airing my own views in an independent anonymous website.

I was actually going to vote for Norris before I learned of all his poor judgement and now the fact that he's a welfare cheat.

Who you voting for now?

Fishooks12

whycliff wrote: »

Who you voting for now?

Dana of course!..................

nah, I'm voting for Michael D with my second preference going to Sean Gallagher