The Official After Hours Presidential Election Thread **POLL RESET 23/10**

Fishooks12

mikom wrote: »

"Fish hook" or "fish hooked".
Used to describe being fooled or "taking the bait"

How was I fooled??

RachaelVO

nhunter100 wrote: »

As stated in my first post I agreed he had done nothing wrong if you cared to read it but I questioned how on disability and I know not state disability that he claimed to work as a full-time senator if he was physically disabled from his career as a lecturer.

In a nutshell, he got Hep E (a very rare form of Hepatitis indeed) and was out for considerable time, and his replacement in turn got tenure in his position. Norris previously had tenure, which in the academic world in a job for life, so given that he was sick, and not able to do his job, they had to pay him, so he effectively got early retirement. So that's why he got his private pension until his age of retirement!

MungBean

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I'm assuming you would given you branded me a troll for giving my opinion on David Norris. Most of his supporters have a problem with anyone critiquing him.

"Norris fanboys are so naive its laughable" isnt a critique of Norris, its an insult to his supporters designed to get a reaction. Thats why you were called a troll.

RachaelVO

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I'm assuming you would given you branded me a troll for giving my opinion on David Norris. Most of his supporters have a problem with anyone critiquing him.

Massive difference between a critique and tearing strips off the chap!

Seachmall

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I'm assuming you would given you branded me a troll for giving my opinion on David Norris. Most of his supporters have a problem with anyone critiquing him.

I called you a troll because your posted achieved nothing but an apparent attempt at baiting a fanboy.

Not flaming, just explaining.

Micky Dolenz

I'm still seeing flaming.

Bans incoming.

Fishooks12

RachaelVO wrote: »

In a nutshell, he got Hep E (a very rare form of Hepatitis indeed) and was out for considerable time, and his replacement in turn got tenure in his position. Norris previously had tenure, which in the academic world in a job for life, so given that he was sick, and not able to do his job, they had to pay him, so he effectively got early retirement. So that's why he got his private pension until his age of retirement!

Your completely ignoring the moral issue in question

He didn't need to claim disability considering he was getting paid a handsome wage by the Senate. He should have declined the additional money and not took advantage of the system.

That's what people have the problem with, that's why his support is slipping and it's those errors of judgement that have ruined his chance of getting into office

Fishooks12

Seachmall wrote: »

I called you a troll because your posted achieved nothing but an apparent attempt at baiting a fanboy.

Not flaming, just explaining.

I gave an honest opinion about how certain Norris supporters fail to see his failings, nothing wrong with it and if there was I suggest you report the post

RachaelVO

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Your completely ignoring the moral issue in question

He didn't need to claim disability considering he was getting paid a handsome wage by the Senate. He should have declined the additional money and not took advantage of the system.

That's what people have the problem with, that's why his support is slipping and it's those errors of judgement that have ruined his chance of getting into office

This is getting boring... he didn't claim disability he was put out to pasture early. He was given the pension he PAID FOR while he lectured for 20 years in TCD. It was his PRIVATELY PAID FOR PENSION that he drew down. His money, his investment, HIS pension. No moral dilemma there at all!

nhunter100

RachaelVO wrote: »

nhunter100 wrote: »

As stated in my first post I agreed he had done nothing wrong if you cared to read it but I questioned how on disability and I know not state disability that he claimed to work as a full-time senator if he was physically disabled from his career as a lecturer.

In a nutshell, he got Hep E (a very rare form of Hepatitis indeed) and was out for considerable time, and his replacement in turn got tenure in his position. Norris previously had tenure, which in the academic world in a job for life, so given that he was sick, and not able to do his job, they had to pay him, so he effectively got early retirement. So that's why he got his private pension until his age of retirement!

Believe it or not I have no intention of voting in this Farce or Ego contest whichever name fits.The real event is the Budget in December and the harm about to be commited on the Irish people.But I find the attitude to people who don't share your blinkered veiw of Mr Norris distrubing.

Biggins

Fishooks12 wrote: »

...He should have declined the additional money and not took advantage of the system.

He didn't take advantage of any system - he used what he was only entitled to, created by his own efforts.

If he took 'advantage' of anything (do you have proof?), I would suggest you make a Garda report for financial irregularities!

Fishooks12

RachaelVO wrote: »

This is getting boring... he didn't claim disability he was put out to pasture early. He was given the pension he PAID FOR while he lectured for 20 years in TCD. It was his PRIVATELY PAID FOR PENSION that he drew down. His money, his investment, HIS pension. No moral dilemma there at all!

Did you even read the article in the indo?

All your facts are wrong. He was on state paid disability welfare, not his investment. He dipped his hand into our pockets while getting paid by us for his work in the senate, all this is correct, he doesn't even deny it himself.

Ironé

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Your completely ignoring the moral issue in question

He didn't need to claim disability considering he was getting paid a handsome wage by the Senate. He should have declined the additional money and not took advantage of the system.

That's what people have the problem with, that's why his support is slipping and it's those errors of judgement that have ruined his chance of getting into office

He had two jobs effectively with different degrees of stress. He could no longer continue to work one and was entitled to a disability pension. Why should he not take his private pension?

I have many problems with David Norris - I really don't think he did anything wrong here.

RachaelVO

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Did you even read the article in the indo?

All your facts are wrong. He was on state paid disability welfare, not his investment. He dipped his hand into our pockets while getting paid by us for his work in the senate, all this is correct, he doesn't even deny it himself.

No, all my facts are 100% correct! If you re-read the updated verson of the indo article you'll see that. Infact, I copied and pasted the the updated information for you

In a statement issued today, the university said: “The college can confirm that Senator Norris worked as a lecturer in Trinity College from 1968 and he retired at normal retirement age in September 2009.

“In general, income protection insurers, who operate independently of the college, have rigorous medical assessment processes in place for the initial and continuing admittance of claims to their income protection schemes.”

Mr Norris said the illness was serious and while he didn’t know what it was at first he was quite unwell.

He spent some time in hospital and the illness was diagnosed as Hepatitis, non A, non B and non C, and it was probably contracted from water in Central Europe.

According to the World Health Organistation, Hepatitis E – or HEV – is the waterborne variation of the disease.

Contaminated water or food supplies have been implicated in major outbreaks and consumption of faecally contaminated drinking water has given rise to epidemics, and the ingestion of raw or uncooked shellfish has been the source of sporadic cases in endemic areas.

The risk factors for HEV infection are related to poor sanitation in many parts of the world.

Mr Norris said the illness, a swelling and inflammation of the liver, drained his energy but it did give him the opportunity to focus his time on Seanad work.

"I was medically advised it was not possible for me to undertake the stress of the very intensive lecturing and tutorial duties that I had," he said.

dvpower

Fishooks12 wrote: »

All your facts are wrong. He was on state paid disability welfare, not his investment. He dipped his hand into our pockets while getting paid by us for his work in the senate, all this is correct, he doesn't even deny it himself.

This is simply untrue. It has been explained over and over again, but you persist with this untruth. Why is that?

Ironé

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Did you even read the article in the indo?

All your facts are wrong. He was on state paid disability welfare, not his investment. He dipped his hand into our pockets while getting paid by us for his work in the senate, all this is correct, he doesn't even deny it himself.

According to the Irish Times he was paid the money by Trinity and not the state. Their article has a statement from Trinity which seems to imply it was Income Protection Insurance - something he would be fully entitled to. Can't see what he's done wrong.

Biggins

Even the Irish Times reports the following:

Asked how much he received in payments, Mr Norris said he was “not very good with arithmetic” but that his pension now was approximately €2,500 per month, which was paid by Trinity College and not the State.

“The college can confirm that Senator Norris worked as a lecturer in Trinity College from 1968 and he retired at normal retirement age in September 2009,” it said. “In general, income protection insurers, who operate independently of the college, have rigorous medical assessment processes in place for the initial and continuing admittance of claims to their income protection schemes.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1005/breaking18.html

Edit: Ironé beat me to it - fair play!

Ironé

Speaking of the Irish Times did you see the latest Poll results:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1005/breaking75.html

Michael D Higgins ahead and Sean Gallagher second. Norris has taken a beating.

Oddjob

RachaelVO wrote: »

I don't think you're very sincere in your apology :rolleyes:

Clearly if your getting the wrong information your opinion needs work. Lets just clear it up for you again.

He paid a private pension while he worked (as most people do)
After twenty years he got early retirement based on illness (or disablity)
From that point on, he got the pension HE PAID FOR up to the age of retirement.
Like many people who have taken their pensions early he got another well paid job, and was still paid the pension HE PAID FOR!

So PUHLEASE show me where he did something wrong, ripped off the tax payer, or was morally reprehensible!

You sound like you know about pensions, in the 26 years he worked in Trinity, how much would he have had to paid into a pension fund to receive what he did?

efb

I'm sure we'll see plenty of retractions- and I hope all refrences to him being 'a welfare cheat' are removed.

My name is URL

Latest odds on Paddy Power -

Michael D.Higgins 4/9
Sean Gallagher - 5/1
Martin McGuinness - 9/1
Mary Davis - 10/1
David Norris - 18/1
Gay Mitchell - 20/1
Dana Rosemary Scallon - 66/1

squod

Oddjob wrote: »

You sound like you know about pensions, in the 26 years he worked in Trinity, how much would he have had to paid into a pension fund to receive what he did?

http://www.pensionsboard.ie/en/Pensions_Calculators/?gclid=CJXM3JCw0qsCFW8JtAodElLaSg

Say £500 a month from the age of thirty?

Biggins

Oddjob wrote: »

You sound like you know about pensions, in the 26 years he worked in Trinity, how much would he have had to paid into a pension fund to receive what he did?

That figure would vary from client to client.
...And how in gods name do you expect anyone here to know the exact figure anyway - lets be real and show one's sense!

I suggest you email Mr Norris and ask if your that inquisitive.

dvpower

Ironé wrote: »

Speaking of the Irish Times did you see the latest Poll results:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1005/breaking75.html

Michael D Higgins ahead and Sean Gallagher second. Norris has taken a beating.

Very very poor showing by Norris. Hopefully it will spur him into action and publish the letters.
If he is to have any chance at all, he needs to try and clear this and try to move on with his campaign.

Fishooks12

Ironé wrote: »

Speaking of the Irish Times did you see the latest Poll results:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1005/breaking75.html

Michael D Higgins ahead and Sean Gallagher second. Norris has taken a beating.

could Gallagher make a race of it?!

Norris effectively gone now, puts paid to all the posters here who said that people don't really care about the letters or his many other controversies.

Overall I think the two strongest candidates are now at the forefront

squod

My name is URL wrote: »

Latest odds on Paddy Power -


Dana Rosemary Scallon - 66/1

Dana polled 5% before she was elected as an MEP.

Fishooks12

dvpower wrote: »

Very very poor showing by Norris. Hopefully it will spur him into action and publish the letters.
If he is to have any chance at all, he needs to try and clear this and try to move on with his campaign.

I think publishing them will do more harm than good, if not he would have already

RachaelVO

Oddjob wrote: »

You sound like you know about pensions, in the 26 years he worked in Trinity, how much would he have had to paid into a pension fund to receive what he did?

I honestly don't know, but TCD would have also made a contribution, as most employers do whe its their pension scheme. But the thing with pensions are, it depends on the funds they are put into! It'd be easier to answer how long is a piece of string. But in this instance PPI plays a factor too!

Ironé

dvpower wrote: »

Very very poor showing by Norris. Hopefully it will spur him into action and publish the letters.
If he is to have any chance at all, he needs to try and clear this and try to move on with his campaign.

Yeah I would think its his only chance really. Although to be honest I don't see him making it.

squod

Fishooks12 wrote: »

could Gallagher make a race of it?!

Norris effectively gone now, puts paid to all the posters here who said that people don't really care about the letters or his many other controversies.

Overall I think the two strongest candidates are now at the forefront

1,000 voters aged 18 and over, in face-to-face interviews at 100 sampling points in all 43 constituencies

Poll is 100% bullshit. 1000 people does not a poll make. Many of the other polls have surveyed upwards of 4000 AFAIK.