The Official After Hours Presidential Election Thread **POLL RESET 23/10**

efb

If any man raped me I'd be traumatised tho

efb

Rookster wrote: »

Norris is a total bluffer and bull****ter! Very dishonest in the crap about not releasing the letters. He said he will abide by the law. Pity he did'nt think about that before writing those letters.

What law did he break???

KeithAFC

flanzer wrote: »

SF had a massive chance at the time of the the Queen's visit to fully support the visit and didn't. It was a chance to somewhat reconcile their own relationship with London and failed miserably.

For that, MMG won't be getting my vote

SF say a lot of things. Most of it is nonsense. Anyone who seriously thinks SF really want a Truth and Reconciliation programme are kidding themselves. SF are the perfect example of the boy who cried wolf.

And you will never get the full truth anyway. Gerry Adams is never going to tell the truth.

_feedback_

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Vincent Brownes take on things...

Vinny has big history in what has gone on up there. There are so many people in positions that should know/have known who was the main man in the IRA.

They all say it was McGuinness. He still denies it this morning... He's full of shít.

up for anything

Personally, I couldn't listen to David Norris' whiney, nasal, glottal stoppy voice for longer than 5 seconds without wanting to silence him in any way possible.

suicide_circus

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

lol, serious facepalm

Well in fairness what does mmg know about contemporary life in the 26 counties. He dosnt live here and never has. All his life has been intensely focused on the 6 counties. I'd prefer a president who understans the mood of the people here.
I live im th 26, I dont have a notion about the people in the 6. They have their own government, money, traditions...they are foreign to me.

efb

up for anything wrote: »

Personally, I couldn't listen to David Norris' whiney, nasal, glottal stoppy voice for longer than 5 seconds without wanting to silence him in any way possible.

He might enjoy it ;-)

MagicSean

Bannasidhe wrote: »

He believed Ezra believed the 15 year old was actually 16 - i.e. over the age of consent. And as for 'buggery' a) no one was ever charged with sodomy (is this considered a crime in Israel?) b) How do you now they engaged in anal intercourse? Not all gay men do - and quite a few heterosexuals do...

Rape requires intercourse to occur. Otherwise its sexual assault. And unless 15 year old Isreali boys have vaginas then anal sex is all it could have been.

efb wrote: »

It was as it was proven to contravene natural law- so all statutory rape convictions were expunged

No. It was considered to be unfair as it did not allow for a defence of reasonable mistake. It's still an offence and it had nothing to do with natural law.

efb wrote: »

7 letters, now 8??? He must have worn out his typewriter

It was probably a state owned typewriter anyway. He didn't even splash out on the paper.

Chucky the tree

Boston Substantial Searcher wrote: »

I like it, he's amusing.

I wish he hadn't wrote those letter's.

I've met him a few times and he has been very warm, very friendly.. A really nice man.

But look we must take things in today's context.

The war in the north of Ireland is over. The IRA have decommissioned and SF have moved into main stream politics, they've embraced peace in Ireland and even went so far as to share power with the unionists and continue to do so today.

But writing letters pleading for clemency in the case of Norris just can not be excused, even today post Ryan report and other reports on child abuse in this country.

Norris says he regrets writing those letters, I'd say he damn well does..

I've a number two perference, I'd like to see the contents of the latest revelations of six undisclosed letters.

At this very early stage I'd say we're looking at either Higgins or Norris through transfer's of first and second perference votes.

So murdering innocent children and Gardai can be excused, but having consentual sex with someone underage can't be? That's some might fine logic there.

efb

MagicSean wrote: »

Rape requires intercourse to occur. Otherwise its sexual assault. And unless 15 year old Isreali boys have vaginas then anal sex is all it could have been.



No. It was considered to be unfair as it did not allow for a defence of reasonable mistake. It's still an offence and it had nothing to do with natural law.



It was probably a state owned typewriter anyway. He didn't even splash out on the paper.

That would be a bit unseemly...

efb

MagicSean wrote: »

Rape requires intercourse to occur. Otherwise its sexual assault. And unless 15 year old Isreali boys have vaginas then anal sex is all it could have been.



No. It was considered to be unfair as it did not allow for a defence of reasonable mistake. It's still an offence and it had nothing to do with natural law.



It was probably a state owned typewriter anyway. He didn't even splash out on the paper.

Statutory Rape is gone- unlawful carnal knowledge of a minor

GavRedKing

Undecided at the moment but I'm leaning towards Norris.

Liam Byrne

I have to laugh at all the "he's good enough for Northern Ireland" crap - the North was offered other options and refused them.

tonycascarino

I have a mind of my own and won't be going along with the Dublin media who want David Norris. Voting McGuinness.

MagicSean

efb wrote: »

Statutory Rape is gone- unlawful carnal knowledge of a minor

Same crime, just renamed.

efb

MagicSean wrote: »

efb wrote: »

Statutory Rape is gone- unlawful carnal knowledge of a minor

Same crime, just renamed.

It's not Statatory- that's the point!

squod

efb wrote: »

It's not Statatory- that's the point!

Pronunciation:/ˈstatjʊt(ə)ri, -tʃʊ-/
adjective
required, permitted, or enacted by statute:
statutory controls over prices
having come to be required or expected through being done or made regularly:
the statutory Christmas phone call to his mother

Dunno 'bout that.

Once I was stopped by the guards for speeding. Gard informed me that I was driving ten miles per hour faster than was allowed on that stretch of road. I received a slap on the wrist and sent on my way.

That is the only time I have ever broken the speed limit in all my years of driving..............:rolleyes:

cosmicfart

Im gonna arse wiped my voting paper, there maybe one lucky candidate who gets my shít

MitchKoobski

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

No, but there is a sizable portion who are happy electing a man who's hands drip with the blood of the innocent

Gay Mitchell?

Ghandee

David Norris sounds like a very, very upperclass Englishman.

If he's president, that'll REALLY confuse a lot of yanks.

Paparazzo

I'm going for Norris. Higgins gets number 2. Reckon both would make good presidents.

FetchTheGin

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I have to laugh at all the "he's good enough for Northern Ireland" crap - the North was offered other options and refused them.

Like what?

FlutterinBantam

Paparazzo wrote: »

I'm going for Norris. Higgins gets number 2. Reckon both would make good presidents.

My golden bollox they would.

Higgins will rile up the Americans because he can't keep his snout out of Middle east affairs(provided someone else pays the bill).

Little gnome was over in Colombia recently too, who paid that bill?

Be very careful about that little lepreachaun, way too fond of himself and expenses for this poster.

Only in it for the travel and expenses.

hooradiation

Voting for Norris.

Lord TSC

Voted Norris. Would have chosen a "Anyone buy MMG" option if there was any. Would prefer to vote for M. Davis but I don't think she's a chance of challanging and I don't want MMG in.

KeithAFC

FetchTheGin wrote: »

Like what?

War. Martin Mcguinness wasn't accepted by all of the people in Northern Ireland. The government set up in N.I is a peace time government. It is completely different. Most Unionists would never vote for him or SF.

Richard

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I have to laugh at all the "he's good enough for Northern Ireland" crap - the North was offered other options and refused them.

Yeah, but it is difficult (although not impossible) to criticise MMG as being unsuitable for President given his role in NI. I think some southern politicians don't mind Sinn Fein being in high office, as long as it's not in the Republic.

Micky Dolenz

For me it's a process of elimination, it has to be the candidate least likely to embarrass our nation.

Pathetic that we have no strong candidates.

Not Norris anyway. Not after the letters scandal.

TheZohanS

Woah, woah, woah woah...where's the Bobby Mugabe option? It isn't a proper AH election poll without him.

Jimoslimos

Any way of doing a poll adjusted for preferences?

Maybe eliminate the lowest candidate every few days (bye bye Dana:pac:) and resubmit the poll perhaps?

At the moment MMG and Norris are way out in front, but given the polarising nature of these candidates I can't imagine it'll be these two fighting it out come the final count, perhaps one but not both - even on a boards poll.

Freddie59

Paparazzo wrote: »

I'm going for Norris.

Even after THIS??

This is from another boards.ie thread:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056402657&page=2

Aras hopeful says he has been misinterpreted, but his 2002 interview set out views that went far beyond endorsing ‘classical paedophilia’

On child sexual abuse: ‘Children in some instances are more damaged by the condemnation than the experience’

Asked if incest was acceptable, he said there was a case to ban it... but only for girls who might have an ‘undesirable’ pregnancy

On paedophilia: ‘There’s a lot of nonsense about paedophilia... I think there is a complete and utter hysteria about this subject’

Challenged on whether a child can give ‘informed consent’ to sex: ‘The law should take into account consent rather than age’

JMSE

I can't stand Norris' dialect and accent. It's extremely UK public school unnecessarily. I've never been able to listen to it, since the 80's I've thought he was barmy talking like that. Sorry Rodney.

Paparazzo

Freddie59 wrote: »

Even after THIS??

This is from another boards.ie thread:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056402657&page=2

Aras hopeful says he has been misinterpreted, but his 2002 interview set out views that went far beyond endorsing ‘classical paedophilia’

On child sexual abuse: ‘Children in some instances are more damaged by the condemnation than the experience’

Asked if incest was acceptable, he said there was a case to ban it... but only for girls who might have an ‘undesirable’ pregnancy

On paedophilia: ‘There’s a lot of nonsense about paedophilia... I think there is a complete and utter hysteria about this subject’

Challenged on whether a child can give ‘informed consent’ to sex: ‘The law should take into account consent rather than age’

The 3rd point is true. For instance, they were trying to ban cameras in playgrounds in cork because the paedos might try and take pictures of kids. Perfect example of hysteria about paedos.
Norris is still getting my number 1. And if the election is anything like this poll, lock up your kids

Kurtosis

Voting for Norris. Of all the candidates, I think he would make the best president.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Freddie59 wrote: »

Even after THIS??

This is from another boards.ie thread:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056402657&page=2

Aras hopeful says he has been misinterpreted, but his 2002 interview set out views that went far beyond endorsing ‘classical paedophilia’

On child sexual abuse: ‘Children in some instances are more damaged by the condemnation than the experience’

Asked if incest was acceptable, he said there was a case to ban it... but only for girls who might have an ‘undesirable’ pregnancy

On paedophilia: ‘There’s a lot of nonsense about paedophilia... I think there is a complete and utter hysteria about this subject’

Challenged on whether a child can give ‘informed consent’ to sex: ‘The law should take into account consent rather than age’

I'd actually agree with one or two of those (BUT NOT ALL, before someone jumps on a bandwagon and calls me a pedophile).

Also, is the link to the other thread supposed to be to a specific post? First thing I read was someone claiming that he wouldn't vote for a gay candidate as he would never want a homosexual in the Aras.

Hawk Wing 2

McGuinness No 1
Norris No 7

KnifeWRENCH

Chris P. Bacon wrote: »

We will be the laughing stock of the world if a gay is elected head of our nation.

You forgot to capitalise the g. But I agree; having Gay Mitchell as our head of state would indeed make us into a laughing stock.

Before the Nawi scandal I was dead set on voting for Norris. Afterwards I said I wouldn't but having seen the concentrated effort (orchestrated mostly by Fine Gael) to keep his name off the ballot paper and seeing him fight his way back for the nomination I am now considering voting for him again. He definitely made a big mistake by sending those letters but it is perhaps not fair to hold one incident against him given that he has done more, perhaps, than anyone else in Ireland for gay rights in this country. He is a charming and intelligent man and I do believe his heart is in the right place. Overall I think his pros outweigh his cons and he would be a good president.

If I don't vote for Norris I will vote for Higgins.
Then #3 McGuinness, #4 Gallagher, #5 Davis and #6 Dana. I originally had Davis ahead of Gallagher but the more I hear about her involvement with quangos the more I dislike her, whereas Gallagher impressed me by asking councils to withdraw support for him when he had enough.

Mitchell will not get any preference from me and I hope the man comes nowhere near the Áras for as long as he's alive.

Hawk Wing 2

KnifeWRENCH wrote: »

Mitchell will not get any preference from me and I hope the man comes nowhere near the Áras for as long as he's alive.

Put him down as No 7 then, thats how PR works

dark crystal

Freddie59 wrote: »

Even after THIS??

This is from another boards.ie thread:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056402657&page=2

Aras hopeful says he has been misinterpreted, but his 2002 interview set out views that went far beyond endorsing ‘classical paedophilia’

On child sexual abuse: ‘Children in some instances are more damaged by the condemnation than the experience’

Asked if incest was acceptable, he said there was a case to ban it... but only for girls who might have an ‘undesirable’ pregnancy

On paedophilia: ‘There’s a lot of nonsense about paedophilia... I think there is a complete and utter hysteria about this subject’

Challenged on whether a child can give ‘informed consent’ to sex: ‘The law should take into account consent rather than age’

Lol, why are people still so incredulous when others state a preference for Norris? Everyone has differing opinions and many are supporting Norris for reasons other than his personal views on sexuality. There is more to him than just that, you know!

He has campaigned on mental health and child abuse issues and has campaigned against some of the actions of the United States during its early 21st century 'War On Terror' including the confinement of suspected terrorists in Guantanamo Bay. He is also a strong critic of both Irish Loyalist and Republican terrorism.
He has also been nominated for the European Human Rights Prize.

Along with colleagues (such as Mary Robinson), he was responsible for managing to get homosexuality de-criminalised in the Irish Republic in 1993.

Just on some of the above points you raised, however, if you scratch the surface of some of his comments, you would see he is making some valid points.
Take the age of consent issue, for example - his view of the age of consent is applied solely to what is called the 'Romeo and Juliet' issue: that is, a young boy and girl who have had sex while one or other is under the age of consent. Norris argues in favour of the discretion of a judge and I honestly don't see a problem with that.

I will be supporting him, not because of his sexuality, not because of some letters he wrote asking for clemency for a dear friend who had an ill-judged relationship with someone he believed was of age at the time and was desperate for help, but because I genuinely believe he is the best man for the job.

People are free to disagree - as is their right - but I wish people would start looking behind the headlines a bit more. If after you read about everything he has stood up for and achieved during his career and still dislike him, then fair enough. But condemning him for one personal incident in a whole career seems unfair to me.

Biggins

Had to laugh at Gay Mitchell today!

I’ve had to stand up for some of the poorest people in this country and indeed on the face of this earth, says Gay. He has used every office he has held to its utmost limits, he said.

http://www.thejournal.ie/liveblog-the-presidential-candidates-on-news-at-one-239126-Sep2011/

Indeed - he's ran up such huge expenses and seriously many junkets that he has indeed used every office to its utmost limits!

Have a read: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2015630/Gay-Mitchell-Controversial-views-lavish-junkets-notorious-gangster-cousin.html#ixzz1YQXF1JwI

KnifeWRENCH

Hawk Wing 2 wrote: »

Put him down as No 7 then, thats how PR works

I know how PR works, thanks. (And I think Single Transferable Vote is the more correct term since it's an election where only one person is to be elected.)

And I'd rather leave the box for him blank, I'll get more personal satisfaction out of it.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Hawk Wing 2 wrote: »

Put him down as No 7 then, thats how PR works

It doesn't work at all in a Presidential election.

cosanostra

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

It doesn't work at all in a Presidential election.

When the lowest candidates are eliminated pr comes into play but obviously not once someone is elected

retalivity

cant vote as im abroad.

would be norris/mickey d 1/2 if i was home.
wouldnt waste the ink/lead on any of the rest

Dionysus

o1s1n wrote: »

So you speak for everyone now, yes?

There are plenty of anti gay bigots who think along those lines and want nothing more than to smear him out of the running.

Do you reckon all of this would have been brought to the surface in the same way if he wasn't gay?

:rolleyes: So, remember, everybody, if you don't vote for Norris you're an "anti gay bigot". :rolleyes:

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

cosanostra wrote: »

When the lowest candidates are eliminated pr comes into play but obviously not once someone is elected

Did not know that.

Not sure it works though when only one candidate gets elected. I want the person with the most votes to win, not the one who comes second most frequently.

Hawk Wing 2

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Did not know that.

Not sure it works though when only one candidate gets elected. I want the person with the most votes to win, not the one who comes second most frequently.

Its not first past the post

Dionysus

I'm still going to vote for Michael D., broadly because I respect the integrity of his left-of-centre passions, but specifically because it was Michael D. as minister, and not any minister from the supposedly uber-Irish Fianna Fáil, who directed funding into establishing TG4 back in 1996. This is often overlooked.

TG4 is easily the most refreshing tv station in Ireland with great, interesting and informative documentaries about our history and culture. It's a world away from the ineffably tabloidesque TV3, or from most of the rubbish on RTÉ tv.

Unlike any of the other candidates, as President Michael D. would have the open-mindedness to be able to talk to Irish people in Irish as well as English. That passion and commitment to an Irish intellectual and cultural community rather than just verbal republicanism about Irish freedom is something which I personally value immensely. Michael D. showed he was good at standing up for minorities when he was in government, and not just when he was in opposition. Huge meas.

Deedsie

Primetime special on RTÉ 1 now!