The Official After Hours Presidential Election Thread **POLL RESET 23/10**

squod

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

I now what I said earlier on a couple of other threads about why one shouldn't vote for Norris but I beginning to have a change of heart. I know that what Norris did in the 90's was wrong as shows a slight lack of judgement in his character but he certainly seems a bit better than a lot of the candidates running (bar Michael D. Higgins). I know this might sound a bit wrong but having such a liberal and open President will progress Ireland's image abroad by leaps and bounds and will help wash away that old tattered view of Ireland being a Catholic, socially conservative country.

My only other critique of Norris is that he seem a bit pompous, either intentionally or inadvertently, however he always seems to be quite outspoken.

Guaranteed hilarity. Plenty of elbow poking and giggling by visiting delegates. Shure isn't that what Ireland needs right now. Norris for the craic.

efb

squod wrote: »

Guaranteed hilarity. Plenty of elbow poking and giggling by visiting delegates. Shure isn't that what Ireland needs right now. Norris for the craic.

Is he bottom????

Putin it out there...

arybvtcw0eolkf

Sc@recrow wrote: »

good god..what did you think of Norris then :pac:

I like it, he's amusing.

I wish he hadn't wrote those letter's.

I've met him a few times and he has been very warm, very friendly.. A really nice man.

But look we must take things in today's context.

The war in the north of Ireland is over. The IRA have decommissioned and SF have moved into main stream politics, they've embraced peace in Ireland and even went so far as to share power with the unionists and continue to do so today.

But writing letters pleading for clemency in the case of Norris just can not be excused, even today post Ryan report and other reports on child abuse in this country.

Norris says he regrets writing those letters, I'd say he damn well does..

I've a number two perference, I'd like to see the contents of the latest revelations of six undisclosed letters.

At this very early stage I'd say we're looking at either Higgins or Norris through transfer's of first and second perference votes.

mikemac

Two from Derry, one from Galway, two from Dublin and I'm going to give Davis and Gallagher to Dublin too since they work and live there. You could argue Cavan for Gallagher

Munster is the forgotten province

_feedback_

Boston Substantial Searcher wrote: »

I like it, he's amusing.

I wish he hadn't wrote those letter's.

I've met him a few times and he has been very warm, very friendly.. A really nice man.

But look we must take things in today's context.

The war in the north of Ireland is over. The IRA have decommissioned and SF have moved into main stream politics, they've embraced peace in Ireland and even went so far as to share power with the unionists and continue to do so today.

But writing letters pleading for clemency in the case of Norris just can not be excused, even today post Ryan report and other reports on child abuse in this country.

Norris says he regrets writing those letters, I'd say he damn well does..

I've a number two perference, I'd like to see the contents of the latest revelations of six undisclosed letters.

At this very early stage I'd say we're looking at either Higgins or Norris through transfer's of first and second perference votes.

I know it's not a general election. But, one thing that wound me up a lot about all that has happened in the country, is the amount of lies that the last lot came out with. They lied about things like the IMF deal and all until the last minute. Treated us like idiots.

I see what you are saying about MMG and the IRA and SF. But, he is still doing that bullshít of lying about it all. Maybe if he was more upfront about it, I'd have a bit more time for him, but he's a liar, and I'd hate to see a liar who treats "his people" like idiots being elected.

mikemac

Makikomi, if you don't mind me asking and feel free to ignore this

If the President is the head of the Defense forces do the members swear an oath every time a new President is appointed.
Or is the oath to the Constitution and not to the President?

LaFlammeRouge

mikemac wrote: »

Two from Derry, one from Galway, two from Dublin and I'm going to give Davis and Gallagher to Dublin too since they work and live there. You could argue Cavan for Gallagher

Munster is the forgotten province

Michael D is from Limerick

KeithAFC

The_Minister wrote: »

Boston Substantial Searcher wrote: »

I wonder, if Norris has wrote a letter of clemency for an Irish priest accused of violating, raping, an Irish child would that have been different for his supporters now?...

Or can we sit comfortably by and let it happen to other's in the same way we can call on the unionist parties up in the north of Ireland to enter into a power sharing assembly with Adams, MMG & Co. but we dare not ask it of ourselves?.

We make them share power because otherwise everyone starts killing each other again, and because they abused and persecuted catholics for several decades.

There won't be violence if we keep out SF and we have never done anything bad to our Protestant minority that would mean we couldn't be trusted without being forced to allow them participate in government.

We make the disgusting Unionists accept the disgusting Nationalists in government because it saves lives, stops violence and is the only way to protect the two sides from one another - no one expects them to like it, and there is nothing hypocritical about us refusing to accept them ourselves.

Sooner or later N.I is going to get a proper government in place. Won't always be like this. This is just a peace set up government.

mikemac

LaFlammeRouge wrote: »

Michael D is from Limerick

True and went to school in Clare
But he's associated with Galway and I put him there

It wasn't a serious post anyway

Freddie59

KeithAFC wrote: »

Sooner or later N.I is going to get a proper government in place. Won't always be like this. This is just a peace set up government.

You're right. Probably when the Catholics become the majority. And that's not too far off. 'Peace set up government'. Interesting turn of phrase.

Sooopie

i think david norris is great and i will be voting for him

Freddie59

Sooopie wrote: »

i think david norris is great and i will be voting for him

Everyone to their own. Let me know how it works out for you.......

Wolfe Tone

Freddie59 wrote: »

You're right. Probably when the Catholics become the majority. And that's not too far off. 'Peace set up government'. Interesting turn of phrase.

He longs for the days of Orange rule...

arybvtcw0eolkf

elviscostello wrote: »

I see what you are saying about MMG and the IRA and SF. But, he is still doing that bullshít of lying about it all. Maybe if he was more upfront about it, I'd have a bit more time for him, but he's a liar, and I'd hate to see a liar who treats "his people" like idiots being elected.

SF are the only party to have called for a South African style Truth & Reconcilliation Commission.

mikemac wrote: »

Makikomi, if you don't mind me asking and feel free to ignore this

If the President is the head of the Defense forces do the members swear an oath every time a new President is appointed.
Or is the oath to the Constitution and not to the President?

No, the last time I took the oath was in 1885 and tbh I'd have to search for its wording.

MMG is running as an independent, now I don't kid myself that the SF election machinery isn't fully behind him.

I don't think we've anything to fear from either MMG or SF snooping around secret documents relating to them, and in case people forget - all governments keep secrets hidden for ten years, thirty, fifty or one hundred years.. We never truly know what goes on in the corridors of Leinster House and Government Buildings.

KeithAFC

Freddie59 wrote: »

KeithAFC wrote: »

Sooner or later N.I is going to get a proper government in place. Won't always be like this. This is just a peace set up government.

You're right. Probably when the Catholics become the majority. And that's not too far off. 'Peace set up government'. Interesting turn of phrase.

No. When the set up does 20+ years and the place has fully settled down. Then a proper government can take place.

LaFlammeRouge

mikemac wrote: »

Makikomi, if you don't mind me asking and feel free to ignore this

If the President is the head of the Defense forces do the members swear an oath every time a new President is appointed.
Or is the oath to the Constitution and not to the President?

This seems to be the oath:

Form of Oath or Declaration to be taken or made by Men Enlisting in the Permanent Defence Force under section 54.

Section 58 (2).

PART I.

Mionnaímse (nó dearbhaímse), ___________, go solamanta go mbead dílis d'Eirinn agus tairiseach don Bhunreacht agus, faid a bhead im fhear de na Buan-Oglaigh, go gcomhlíonfad gach ordú dleathach a bhéarfas m'oifigigh uachtaracha dhom agus nach gceanglód le haon eagraíocht nó cumann polaitíochta ná le haon chumann rúnda ar bith ná nach mbead im chomhalta den chéanna ná nach dtaobhód leis an gcéanna.

PART II.

I, ___________, do solemnly swear (or declare) that I will be faithful to Ireland and loyal to the Constitution and that while I am a man of the Permanent Defence Force I will obey all lawful orders issued to me by my superior officers and will not join or be a member of or subscribe to any political organisation or society or any secret society whatsoever.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

o1s1n wrote: »

if anything the pettiness of this smear campaign makes me want to vote for him even more.

That would not have any effect on me, if anything it just makes me not like FG even more, as they chose to vote against him instead of abstaining from the voting in the Co Co

For the record, at this point in time im not voting for Norris

newballsplease wrote: »

cant understand how so many are going for Norris?

he has been all over the news for the last few weeks, he has got a lot more publicity than any other canditate up until now, Dana had a lot too, but she hasnt a chance in my opinion. I would imagine the real election will be a lot tighter, and prob between Norris, Higgins and McGuinness

Boston Substantial Searcher wrote: »

You find people's concern's re. sex with underage boys "pettiness".
I hate the IRA, but I can accept that they're gone - never to return. I can accept that MMG can put his past behind him.
But the stuff surrounding Norris - you don't grow out of that, you don't put that behind you.. No thank you.

aaaaaaaaaagh now. that makes no since
If you are raised as a kid to hate certon people, you dont grow out of that either.

Penn

Was going to vote for Norris, but after the whole letters thing.... Sorry, just can't do it. I hope he does well, but I won't be helping him with a vote.

I'm probably going to end up going for Michael D Higgins, but keeping it open as I know little about what each of the other candidates stand for. I'd even be willing to give Martin McGuinness a vote. All I know is, it won't be Dana. She can f*ck right off

arybvtcw0eolkf

LaFlammeRouge wrote: »

This seems to be the oath:

I'm crap at research, can you find the presidents oath for the forum please?.

CorsetIsTight

Boston Substantial Searcher wrote: »

No, the last time I took the oath was in 1885 and tbh I'd have to search for its wording.

Are you a vampire...?

LaFlammeRouge

Boston Substantial Searcher wrote: »

I'm crap at research, can you find the presidents oath for the forum please?.

"In the presence of Almighty God I ,do
solemnly and sincerely promise and declare
that I will maintain the Constitution of
Ireland and uphold its laws, that I will fulfil
my duties faithfully and conscientiously in
accordance with the Constitution and the
law, and that I will dedicate my abilities to
the service and welfare of the people of
Ireland. May God direct and sustain me."

arybvtcw0eolkf

LaFlammeRouge wrote: »

"In the presence of Almighty God I ,do
solemnly and sincerely promise and declare
that I will maintain the Constitution of
Ireland and uphold its laws, that I will fulfil
my duties faithfully and conscientiously in
accordance with the Constitution and the
law, and that I will dedicate my abilities to
the service and welfare of the people of
Ireland. May God direct and sustain me."

Cool, thanks.

--Kaiser--

newballsplease wrote: »

So were DeValera and Mick Collins disgraceful human beings?

Michael Collins generally attacked soldiers and other military targets. The IRA on the other hand mainly attacked innocent civilians.

Not a valid comparison

Wolfe Tone

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Michael Collins generally attacked soldiers and other military targets. The IRA on the other hand mainly attacked innocent civilians.

Not a valid comparison

Revisionist crap.

Wolfe Tone

The presidential election campaign is likely to be about Martin McGuinness. Not the presidency, not any of the other candidatures, just McGuinness. That is unless something startling emerges about one of the other candidates or one of them makes a catastrophic faux pas.

Nobody with the profile or stature of McGuinness has contested the presidency since Eamon de Valera last did it in 1966 and nobody before him. De Valera knew well the limitations of the office, for he had devised the Constitution that created the office. Although the presidency is the fulcrum of the institutions of the state, it has no independent powers worth making much of. The office of the presidency is a formality and possibly a decorative one. This might be a problem for McGuinness, who might rail against the inhibitions of the office.

He had an enormous role in the breakthrough of the peace process and in the negotiation of the Good Friday Agreement. He and Gerry Adams brought an almost united republican movement out of its tradition of violence into the arena of politics. That was a considerable achievement. But he has gone beyond that in creating a milieu where the two main representatives of the divided communities can work together in prime ministerial office, with none of the acrimony that was so much part of the interaction of those communities and very little of the suspicion that accompanied it.
He established a relationship of trust, even companionship, with Ian Paisley, the vitriolic scourge of the nationalist community for so long. He did it all over again in establishing a good working relationship with the prickly Peter Robinson, eventually. He has been instrumental in virtually uniting the nationalist community in its acceptance of the new police force, the PSNI, maybe his most important achievement. Before then, he and Adams engineered the decommissioning of the IRA armoury.

All that has been transformative and he has been a central player, along with Adams, Paisley, Robinson, Bertie Ahern,Tony Blair, John Hume and many others. But arguably, what Adams and McGuinness achieved was the most crucial. Al so, the election of McGuinness as president of this state would be the final, irreversible transition by the republican movement (or almost all of it) into politics, into acceptance of the state and the constitutional structure underlying both jurisdictions on the island.

But, but, but... There is his record as a leader of the IRA at a time when the most appalling atrocities were perpetrated and for which as a leader, activist and apologist of the IRA he bears a responsibility. According to the encyclopaedia of killings in Northern Ireland, Lost Lives, the IRA was responsible for 48.8% of all deaths,1,771 out of a total of 3,636.

No other organisation was responsible for anything like that carnage (547 by the UVF, 408 by the UDA, 301 by the British army, 52 by the RUC, eight by the UDR). We do not know the extent to which McGuinness was involved in any of these atrocities, but some people do know and, as the years go by, some of these people are likely to tell their stories. If he is then president of Ireland, it won’t be edifying. Then there is what McGuinness says about having left the IRA in the 1970s. Is this really believable?

I do not know Martin McGuinness but, since 1970, when I first worked in Northern Ireland as a journalist, I got to know many people in the IRA and retained contact with many of them over the years. Some, including people close to McGuinness, indicated that he was a leading member of the IRA, that for a protracted period he was on the army council and IRA chief of staff for a period. Not one of these would have had an animosity towards McGuinness or say something they believed would be to his detriment. So, during virtually all this time, he was, at least indirectly, responsible for the abominations perpetrated by the IRA.

There is, furthermore, the prospect of Áras an Uachtarain being visited every now and again by other known IRA members, people directly or indirectly responsible for the slaughter of some of the 1,771 killed by the IRA. There could also be renewed unionist anxieties if many people here vote for a former IRA leader. But, but, but . . . . Political leaders across the world have been involved in violence and we have no trouble feting them. Richard Nixon for instance, or Ronald Reagan, or Bill Clinton, or George W Bush, or Tony Blair, or Barack Obama or even Henry Kissinger, whose name plenty of Cambodians will remember.

Each of these bears responsibility for the killing of thousands and thousands of innocent people, yet we felt very warm about them coming here. Nor do we feel at all uneasy about the memories of Michael Collins, Cathal Brugha, Seán Lemass, Seán MacEoin, Frank Aiken, Seán McBride, Richard Mulcahy or the members of the first government responsible for the murder of 77 prisoners.

And as for telling the truth, just try counting the lies told by members of this government since they came to office, even over the last week. So what’s the problem with Martin McGuinness?

Vincent Brownes take on things...

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

MagicSean wrote: »

And if you're teacher had buggered you when you were 15 do you think it would have had any long term effects on you?

When I was a 15 year old boy, if a fat 65 year old male teacher "buggered" me, then yes. And I think I speak for 99.9% of the people on boards.

flanzer

Boston Substantial Searcher wrote: »

SF are the only party to have called for a South African style Truth & Reconcilliation Commission.

SF had a massive chance at the time of the the Queen's visit to fully support the visit and didn't. It was a chance to somewhat reconcile their own relationship with London and failed miserably.

For that, MMG won't be getting my vote

johnners2981

lol going by this dana will get double gay mitchell's votes

efb

Zachariah Fancy Welfare wrote: »

When I was a 15 year old boy, if a fat 65 year old male teacher "buggered" me, then yes. And I think I speak for 99.9% of the people on boards.

If my tech drawing teacher hac of dropped the hand...

While the other lads were staring at our English teachers titz

Rookster

Norris is a total bluffer and bull****ter! Very dishonest in the crap about not releasing the letters. He said he will abide by the law. Pity he did'nt think about that before writing those letters.