The Official After Hours Presidential Election Thread **POLL RESET 23/10**

KeithAFC

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Its something thats annoying me about all the candidates tbh. They all are acting as if their past should be ignored but at the end of the day, we have to pick a person to represent us and thus every candidate is going to be open to inspection. How you got to where you are is just as important as where you're going to go, and that goes for MMG, Norris, Dana and all of them.

If you want to run for the highest office in Irish politics and ask people to trust you to run the country, its only fair the people know who it is they are voting for.

I agree. How can you not expect questions asked? No one forced Martin Mcguinness to run in the election.

Lord TSC

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

The problem is that there are plenty in the Republic living what can only be some kind of black and white Universe who think that if McGuinness and other Republican leaders had taken the Ghandi approach then all would have been fine and both communities would have gotten along the grandest.

They haven't got a clue of the reality of the situation and what is worse is that they don't want to know either.

And there are some people who refuse, point blank, to achknowledge the real problems people have with him as a candidate, shrinking back behind cliches and propaganda slogans and ideas, and refusing to actually discuss the points being constantly raised. Who claim he's a hero who needed to do what had to be done, but then say he didn't do anything and you cannot prove it. Who fail to see the constant contradictions and hypocracy at play in his campaign.

Agree with him. Vote for him. Thats your democratic right. But at least try and wrap your head round why people have a problem with him, cause honestly, they have every right to as well...

Lord TSC

KeithAFC wrote: »

I agree. How can you not expect questions asked? No one forced Martin Mcguinness to run in the election.

And as I said, I'm not focusing on MMG there with that post; how did Norris not think the letters would come up? Or Dana think the duel citizenship and whatever else is coming out now? Or Davis and Gallagher and their FF connections? It's like they are all shocked they are being asked to discuss the biggest aspect of their candidacy.

Hannibal Smith

I am getting so hacked off with the media and commentators going on and on about Martin McGuinness' past! It is boring now and I'm almost tempted to give him a vote just to pee them off!

Martin McGuinness was in the IRA, there is no big scandal in that, we are all well aware of it...but using him as a scapegoat for all that was done in the name of the IRA or trying to needle him for information because he wants to become Irish President is just point scoring and trying to get a scandal for next morning's papers.

Martin McGuinness has come up against this type of thing so many times over his 30 years as politician, do you not think he's well used to these kinds of questions and well used to answering them?

I don't want to hear any more about the path he chose when he was 18 years of age when human rights in the North for his community were non existent. I want to hear more about his work as a politician since. I want to know how he and Ian Paisley developed such a rapport to earn the name 'the Chuckle Brothers', I want to know more about his political life.

It's funny when you think about it that for years we were pushing the DUP to go into power sharing with Sinn Fein and calling Paisley all the biggots in the world...now here we are faced with the possibility of a Sinn Fein President and we're behaving in exactly the same way. The Unionists have moved on and accepted him as Deputy First Minister, why the hell can't we do the same?

/rant :mad:

Morlar

KeithAFC wrote: »

I agree. How can you not expect questions asked? No one forced Martin Mcguinness to run in the election.

'Questions being asked' is not a problem, and let's be honest here for a second keith - pretty sure you already know that don't you ?

Questions being asked and answers ignored is part of the problem.

The manner in which some journalists in the republic have taken it as their personal crusade to prevent Martin McGuinness becoming president is another part of the problem, along with the total hypocrisy of Fine Gael e.g. sitting on North South Bodies with MMG, having no issue with him as Deputy First Minister of NI etc

fishy fishy

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Maybe it's because he actually has nothing to hide........that wouldn't fit in with your conspiracy theory though

no, don't fall for that - EVERYONE has something - its just that RTE are again trying to sway the vote but leaving him alone - very naive on their part and even more naive on people who are falling for it.

Phill Ewinn

I'd go along with the notion of the South being a better place if MMG is elected. It will certainly stir an interest in the countrys history. Less upright than the two previous presidents also. More laid back charm like what foreigners will expect from us.

fishy fishy

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Maybe it's because he actually has nothing to hide........that wouldn't fit in with your conspiracy theory though

what has "conspiracy theory" got to do with it?

Morlar

Mary Davis 1 0.43%

Hiya Mary !!

I always knew you were a fan of boards.

ColeTrain

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

I am getting so hacked off with the media and commentators going on and on about Martin McGuinness' past! It is boring now and I'm almost tempted to give him a vote just to pee them off!

Martin McGuinness was in the IRA, there is no big scandal in that, we are all well aware of it...but using him as a scapegoat for all that was done in the name of the IRA or trying to needle him for information because he wants to become Irish President is just point scoring and trying to get a scandal for next morning's papers.

Martin McGuinness has come up against this type of thing so many times over his 30 years as politician, do you not think he's well used to these kinds of questions and well used to answering them?

I don't want to hear any more about the path he chose when he was 18 years of age when human rights in the North for his community were non existent. I want to hear more about his work as a politician since. I want to know how he and Ian Paisley developed such a rapport to earn the name 'the Chuckle Brothers', I want to know more about his political life.

It's funny when you think about it that for years we were pushing the DUP to go into power sharing with Sinn Fein and calling Paisley all the biggots in the world...now here we are faced with the possibility of a Sinn Fein President and we're behaving in exactly the same way. The Unionists have moved on and accepted him as Deputy First Minister, why the hell can't we do the same?

/rant :mad:

Agree with all of that.

The bit in bold gives me another flashback from last night ( shudder )

O'Callaghan asked MMG why he didn't name the killers of the soldier who's son confronted him in Athlone. She said something looooike "You were in the Republican movement, you definitely know".
More subjective horseshi*. The barrel was well and truly scraped.

newballsplease

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/presidential-election/higgins-admits-he-smoked-dope-and-yes-he-inhaled-2904526.html

Good Man Mickie D !

Lord TSC

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

Martin McGuinness was in the IRA, there is no big scandal in that, we are all well aware of it...but using him as a scapegoat for all that was done in the name of the IRA or trying to needle him for information because he wants to become Irish President is just point scoring and trying to get a scandal for next morning's papers.

But he's put himself up for the election. He has thrust himself into the public eye and has stepped forward into a circle of discussion. He chose to run for president and in the process, he gave people the chance to ask the questions which they wanted answered.

Again, if he didn't want to be asked questions, he should not have put himself into the public circle where there was always going to be character checks and discussions. If any former IRA member had stepped forward like him, they too would have been asked questions as well.

These are being asked because he himself has created the forum for those questions to be asked. To blame or attack people for then asking the questions is ludicrous.

O'Callaghan asked MMG why he didn't name the killers of the soldier who's son confronted him in Athlone. She said something looooike "You were in the Republican movement, you definitely know".

That was one of the few parts I caught of the debate but didn't she actually ask "You were in the republican movement, you'd have the links within it to help answer that question". Yeah, it was still a stupid question but there's a difference there

KeithAFC

Morlar wrote: »

'Questions being asked' is not a problem, and let's be honest here for a second keith - pretty sure you already know that don't you ?

Questions being asked and answers ignored is part of the problem.

The manner in which some journalists in the republic have taken it as their personal crusade to prevent Martin McGuinness becoming president is another part of the problem, along with the total hypocrisy of Fine Gael e.g. sitting on North South Bodies with MMG, having no issue with him as Deputy First Minister of NI etc

But Martin Mcguinness has to expect such questions and even if it does look like he is being singled out, his past is perhaps more muddy compared to the others, so it is to be expected.

How embarrassing must it be for a candidate who is out electioneering have to stop when a citizen of the Republic Of Ireland come up to him and ask him if he knows the PIRA members who killed one of his family members.

When that happens to you, you must surely be prepared and not have to take the presenter to the side after the show to complain about being questioned.

Hannibal Smith

ColeTrain wrote: »

Agree with all of that.

The bit in bold gives me another flashback from last night ( shudder )

O'Callaghan asked MMG why he didn't name the killers of the soldier who's son confronted him in Athlone. She said something looooike "You were in the Republican movement, you definitely know".
More subjective horseshi*. The barrel was well and truly scraped.

What annoyed me most about last night was everytime a candidate [finally] got to the point they were making, she'd say 'okay lets move on'! :eek: I thought what?! I was actually interested to hear the rest of that! She didn't only do it to Mcguinness, she did it to them all. If you haven't got time for an answer, interrupt them before they get going, not just as they're finishing! :mad:

Lord Trollington

After watching that last night I would be encouraging everyone to vote for MMG.

MOC is the darling of Irish TV, Women want to be her. Men want to mount her. No one says a bad word about Miriam.

I hope she takes a serious look at herself today and how that debate went last night.

Doubtful though, she on huge bucks which us the taxpayers are footing.

She's another one of the crop of Irish untouchables who seem to be able do and say as they please.

suicide_circus

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Nelson Mandella was a terrorist with blood on his hands. Desperate times, desperate measures and all that.

Having said that, I genuinely don't want him as President-not because of his past but because I don't think he's the man for the job. Also the barefaced lies he's been telling at every opportunity.

+1
I dont want marty to be president, not because of his past, but because I dont think he is the right candidate to represent the people of this republic.

Morlar

ColeTrain wrote: »

Agree with all of that.

The bit in bold gives me another flashback from last night ( shudder )

O'Callaghan asked MMG why he didn't name the killers of the soldier who's son confronted him in Athlone. She said something looooike "You were in the Republican movement, you definitely know".
More subjective horseshi*. The barrel was well and truly scraped.

The irony here is the day that happened the family of Pat Finucane were in Downing st being told by David Cameron that yes their father was murdered by loyalists working in collusion with the British state security forces.

Cameron went on to refuse a full and open & public enquiry which the family say is required to get the names of those in the British security services who were involved.

Contrast that with the approach of SF who have for years been after a 'Truth and reconcilliation' style comission - which no other political party in the republic of Ireland have given any support for. This includes FG.

http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/13738

For years and years and years republicans maintained that the british security services were involved in collusion with loyalist sectarian murder gangs and this was always denied in the british media and often either dismissed or ignored by some in the south.

Can you imagine a scenario where any other european govt' security services were involved in collusion with sectarian murder gangs - how much media coverage that would get ?

This is another indication of the fact that the context to the NI troubles is not the normal everyday peacetime scenario, so the violence that some people were involved in needs to be taken in it's proper context. Taking it out of that context and pretending there were no extreme circumstances is dishonest.

Lord Trollington

KeithAFC wrote: »

But Martin Mcguinness has to expect such questions and even if it does look like he is being singled out, his past is perhaps more muddy compared to the others, so it is to be expected.

How embarrassing must it be for a candidate who is out electioneering have to stop when a citizen of the Republic Of Ireland come up to him and ask him if he knows the PIRA members who killed one of his family members.

When that happens to you, you must surely be prepared and not have to take the presenter to the side after the show to complain about being questioned.

Who would you like to see get the presidency Keith?

ColeTrain

KeithAFC wrote: »

But Martin Mcguinness has to expect such questions and even if it does look like he is being singled out, his past is perhaps more muddy compared to the others, so it is to be expected.

How embarrassing must it be for a candidate who is out electioneering have to stop when a citizen of the Republic Of Ireland come up to him and ask him if he knows the PIRA members who killed one of his family members.

When that happens to you, you must surely be prepared and not have to take the presenter to the side after the show to complain about being questioned.

So one person confronting him makes the mud slinging viable then?

Funny because I know he canvassed Castlebar a few days ago without any trouble.

It's a pity for the people out there who wanted to hear about the candidates policies rather than their past which has been extensively highlighted already.

Lord TSC

I'd be all for hearing candidate's policies if not for the fact the few I have heard had nothing to do with the job they are applying for.

Again I say, isn't the presidency a figurehead role? What powers do they have to make jobs, for instance, that the normal government do not? What can they do about the debt crisis facing Ireland? The problem here is that they come out with policies that are great soundbytes but that there's no way they will ever be actually able to implement.

Hannibal Smith

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

But he's put himself up for the election. He has thrust himself into the public eye and has stepped forward into a circle of discussion. He chose to run for president and in the process, he gave people the chance to ask the questions which they wanted answered.

Again, if he didn't want to be asked questions, he should not have put himself into the public circle where there was always going to be character checks and discussions. If any former IRA member had stepped forward like him, they too would have been asked questions as well.

These are being asked because he himself has created the forum for those questions to be asked. To blame or attack people for then asking the questions is ludicrous.

Ah would ya stop! Yes he's putting himself up for president and the questions have to be asked, I never said or suggested they shouldn't. But they have been asked time and time again over the past few weeks and answered time and time again! Moreover, they are questions that have been asked of McGuinness, so many times in his political career, were the Irish journalists not paying attention to the answers then?

Either way enough now, move on to the rest of his career and lets hear a bit about that. If you're going to concentrate on some one's character, concentrate on all of it, not the part that's going to get the interviewer the best headlines in the morning.

It's the same for all the candidates by the way, Michael D Higgins and David Norris have done phenomenal work in their political lives, lets hear more about that instead of whether or not they believe in God, and why they wrote certain letters.

mike kelly

suicide_circus wrote: »

+1
I dont want marty to be president, not because of his past, but because I dont think he is the right candidate to represent the people of this republic.

first time I heard him called Marty

KeithAFC

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Who would you like to see get the presidency Keith?

Well I don't really care who gets elected but Higgins looks like a good person for it. Martin Mcguinness has certainly made the election interesting in terms of discussion.

Happyman42

Morlar wrote: »

For years and years and years republicans maintained that the british security services were involved in collusion with loyalist sectarian murder gangs and this was always denied in the british media and often either dismissed or ignored by some in the south.

Do not forget that our own state colluded with the British against their own citizens.
Why don't the likes of Miriam counterpoint her snide remarks to McG with similar ones to Gay Mitchell about Fine Gael's very recent past?
Amnesty International where prompted to report on the activities of Fine Gael's Garda Heavy Gang.
Anybody who lives on the border would have witnessed the re-emergence of surveillance of SF offices and the show of 'force' by the Special Branch in the run up to Mrs Winsdor's visit.
So collusion still happens to protect the establishment.

Morlar wrote: »

Can you imagine a scenario where any other european govt' security services were involved in collusion with sectarian murder gangs - how much media coverage that would get ?

This is another indication of the fact that the context to the NI troubles is not the normal everyday peacetime scenario, so the violence that some people were involved in needs to be taken in it's proper context. Taking it out of that context and pretending there were no extreme circumstances is dishonest.

Well said!

SeaFields

I wish everyone would stop referring to these television things as debates. They are not anywhere near a debate. They are an exercise in ego flexing by the Irish medias "best interviewers" grilling the candidates as individuals albeit in a group setting.

fishy fishy

I honestly don't think that people know the history of what went on at all. I beggars belief and people who probably never stepped foot up north have all these highfallooting moral highground opinions when it's clear they have no idea what they are talking about.

They really need to get to the facts.

ColeTrain

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

That was one of the few parts I caught of the debate but didn't she actually ask "You were in the republican movement, you'd have the links within it to help answer that question". Yeah, it was still a stupid question but there's a difference there

I played it back there, she said exactly "But you are a Republican, you know everyone in the Republican movement". That's accusing him of lying without anything to back it up.

fishy fishy

if nothing else, this presidency campaign has shown us exactly how RTE and the media operates in Ireland. We can all give out about FOX news in the USA but really, they are not a patch on this homegrown rubbish.

Nodin

Happyman42 wrote: »

There is a sea change happening in international opinion. Of course, as always, our conservative, surrender monkey deniers will be leagues behind.

...ye'll always be left behind if ye live life wriggling on yer belly.....

cowzerp

myironlung wrote: »

No matter what Martin McGuinness says he's still got blood on his hands. Murder is never acceptable.

Martin Mcguinness has no blood on his hands, yes the ira where involved with murders but Mcguinness never got charged or even accused of murder ever, and to say Murder is never acceptable, why is it legal to muredr someone who enters your home if you feel you live is in danger, sometimes Murder is acceptable and this is not even on the MMG subject.

suicide_circus wrote: »

+1
I dont want marty to be president, not because of his past, but because I dont think he is the right candidate to represent the people of this republic.

And i think thats a fair point and much better answer than people just saying he was in the IRA blah blah and not having a clue about his politics or why his live was as it was.