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The Official After Hours Presidential Election Thread **POLL RESET 23/10**

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    #1712
    foxyboxer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭foxyboxer


    TAOISEACH NOTE:

    The Poll has been reset to allow users to revote.



    Like Lisbon 2 Dana, wha? wha? :pac:


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    #1713
    Jonniealan
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭Jonniealan


    Either way you look at it, in most cases the point of bombs where to cost the British government money-to try make it financially unworkable for them to stay in power up north, they used warning with plenty of time to evacuate-i'm not going to expect people who don't understand both sides of the story to get any of that, also there was wrong doing on all sides in the conflict-nobody is denying this, you only have to look at "legal" wars where they bomb the craap out of civilians and not a word is mentioned, and the likes of Bush, Reagan etc are not even mentioned.


    So teh planting of bombs in busy high streets was a tactical masterstroke, and the fact that civilians got killed is an unfortunate but necessary side affect ? and in some cases warning was given and some cases not ! take the bits you like and disregard the rest !

    The reality is weather you like McGuinness or not at some stage down the line the relatives of people murdered by the IRA are going to get there own truth comission and our president may have to answer very seriuos questions. Forget about Reagan, Bush, Blair


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    #1714
    Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭Tom


    Deedsie wrote: »
    As is a trained soldier being order to open fire on a group of unarmed civilians... The British government apologise and they are heroes. The PIRA apologies and put their armed struggled to bed and they are murderers...

    Hypocrisy!

    I agree - opening fire on unarmed civilians is murder aswell. I was pointing out the difference between murder of any kind and manslaughter.


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    #1715
    cowzerp
    Registered Users Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    Jonniealan wrote: »
    The reality is weather you like McGuinness or not at some stage down the line the relatives of people murdered by the IRA are going to get there own truth comission and our president may have to answer very seriuos questions. Forget about Reagan, Bush, Blair

    He's already in power up north and has had all these things brought up before-why do you think this would be any different, i'm voting for Mcguinnes, personally i think he'll miss out on the pass over votes, but the only 2 candidates who are coming out well are him and Mickey D! who in fairness is been given an easy ride so far.

    Many men of peace came from violence, Nelson Mandella been the most spoke about because he supports Martin Mcguinness and see's the similarities in the 2 situations, so if it's good enough for him to compare it's good enough for us.

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



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    #1716
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    cowzerp wrote: »
    why is it legal to muredr someone who enters your home if you feel you live is in danger, sometimes Murder is acceptable and this is not even on the MMG subject.

    It's not called murder, but aside from that the person entering your home is the DIRECT ATTACKER, and you're entitled to FIGHT BACK.

    You are NOT entitled to be so pissed off that someone entered your home and so blow up the car or business of a neighbour who had nothing to do with the attack on your home.

    Can you REALLY not see the difference ?


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    #1717
    fishy fishy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    It's not called murder, but aside from that the person entering your home is the DIRECT ATTACKER, and you're entitled to FIGHT BACK.

    You are NOT entitled to be so pissed off that someone entered your home and so blow up the car or business of a neighbour who had nothing to do with the attack on your home.

    Can you REALLY not see the difference ?


    Hilarious answer - I can't stop laughing - that goalpost changing must be exhaustive work. :D:D:D


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    #1718
    cowzerp
    Registered Users Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Can you REALLY not see the difference ?

    Liam if it was left to you the Nationalist communities up north would still be downthrodden, i call ignorance on your part or else think you just don't care how your fellow irish men up north where treated-the enviroment was treated the way that was necessary at the time, some wrong doing but point out any war situation and it could be pointed out plenty of wrong doing on any side.

    No point in debating with you on this subject because it's nothing to do with McGuinnes and as i said, speculation at best.

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



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    #1719
    Sheeps
    Registered Users Posts: 2,762 ✭✭✭Sheeps


    What were the Dana allegations?


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    #1720
    Acidflash
    Registered Users Posts: 1,228 ✭✭✭Acidflash


    Sheeps wrote: »
    What were the Dana allegations?

    http://twitter.com/#!/search/realtime/%23danarumours

    :pac:


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    #1721
    Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭Tom


    Acidflash wrote: »
    http://twitter.com/#!/search/realtime/%23danarumours

    :pac:

    Reading that they appear to be related to all kinds of everything....

    :D


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    #1722
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    cowzerp wrote: »
    you just don't care how your fellow irish men up north where treated.

    There you have it.....but that lack of care is coming back to bite a few derry-airs! :)


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    #1723
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Like Mrs Winsdor should be held responsible for the murders carried out by her army?







    oh wait....that's different isn't it? :rolleyes:
    Well it is kind of different, as Mrs Windsor is a titular head of the armed forces only, whereas McGuinness was (alleged to be) in an active commanding position.


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    #1724
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    fishy fishy wrote: »
    Hilarious answer - I can't stop laughing - that goalpost changing must be exhaustive work. :D:D:D

    What are you on about ? I haven't ONCE changed any goalpost.

    If you look at the threads re the guy who was arrested for killing an intruder you'll see that.

    But feel free to muddy the waters and spout lies and misrepresentation - it seems to be par for the course for McGuinness supporters any time anyone points out the facts on here.


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    #1725
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    cowzerp wrote: »
    Speculation-that's all it is, he was never charged with Murder or anything like it.
    A bit more than speculation. His role at the top of the IRA was the considered view of the Gardai and others over decades.

    Do you believe him when he says he left the IRA in '74?


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    #1726
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    dvpower wrote: »
    Well it is kind of different, as Mrs Windsor is a titular head of the armed forces only, whereas McGuinness was (alleged to be) in an active commanding position.

    Why didn't we save all the grief and the bill and bring over one of the ceremonial military goats then?


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    #1727
    fishy fishy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    What are you on about ? I haven't ONCE changed any goalpost.

    If you look at the threads re the guy who was arrested for killing an intruder you'll see that.

    But feel free to muddy the waters and spout lies and misrepresentation - it seems to be par for the course for McGuinness supporters any time anyone points out the facts on here.


    more laughter - you are so confused there's no point even trying to explain.
    (no offence)


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    #1728
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    fishy fishy wrote: »
    more laughter - you are so confused there's no point even trying to explain.
    (no offence)

    You can't make a claim like that and then cop out of explaining.

    I'm not even remotely confused, so explain or retract.


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    #1729
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    My_left_leg wrote: »
    Gallagher is FF true 'n true.
    The reason he wont criticize them, is he's looking for their votes.

    They haven't gone away you know!

    Only seen this replayed this morning, I was working last night and missed parts of the show.

    Disgusting, and cringe worthy watching Gallagher hammer the nails into his coffin - an FF'er through'n'through.


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    #1730
    fishy fishy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    You can't make a claim like that and then cop out of explaining.

    I'm not even remotely confused, so explain or retract.

    i can - I just did in fact.


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    #1731
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    dvpower wrote: »
    A bit more than speculation. His role at the top of the IRA was the considered view of the Gardai and others over decades.

    Do you believe him when he says he left the IRA in '74?

    Wasn't it the case in Ireland for decades that you could be convicted of IRA membership if a Garda Assistant commissioner said 'this person is in the IRA'

    You did not need evidence or proof and the accused would get something like 4 years in prison. Open to correction but I believe that was the case & still is.

    This means that if he (M.McGuinness) was in the IRA after 1974, the Irish govt. could easily have had him thrown in prison at any point from 1974 - till the mid 1990's if it believed he was in the IRA.

    But it didnt.


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    #1732
    Fishooks12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Fishooks12


    Morlar wrote: »
    Wasn't it the case in Ireland for decades that you could be convicted of IRA membership if a Garda Assistant commissioner said 'this person is in the IRA'

    You did not need evidence or proof and the accused would get something like 4 years in prison. Open to correction but I believe that was the case & still is.
    .


    You'd be wrong there....


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    #1733
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    Fishooks12 wrote: »
    You'd be wrong there....

    Could have stood up and sworn in court that was the case.


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    #1734
    newballsplease
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,751 ✭✭✭newballsplease


    People voting for Dana- Has to be taking the piss?
    The woman looks and sounds like shes on the verge of a breakdown in fairness.
    No way suitable as President of Ireland.


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    #1735
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    Originally Posted by Morlar View Post
    Wasn't it the case in Ireland for decades that you could be convicted of IRA membership if a Garda Assistant commissioner said 'this person is in the IRA'

    You did not need evidence or proof and the accused would get something like 4 years in prison. Open to correction but I believe that was the case & still is.
    .
    Fishooks12 wrote: »
    You'd be wrong there....

    Just double checked and I was wrong, but only about the timeline.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1998/en/act/pub/0039/index.html

    This law was rushed in after Omagh

    Offences against the state act 1998

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2001/0531/gannon.html
    The head of the Garda Special Detective Unit gave evidence that he believed that the man was a member of the IRA and the Special Criminal Court convicted him of that offence under the 1998 Offences Against the State Act. ....This new law, brought in after the Omagh Bombing, allows the word of a Garda Chief Superintendent or higher officer to be accepted as evidence of membership of an illegal organisation.


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    #1736
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Morlar wrote: »
    Wasn't it the case in Ireland for decades that you could be convicted of IRA membership if a Garda Assistant commissioner said 'this person is in the IRA'

    You did not need evidence or proof and the accused would get something like 4 years in prison. Open to correction but I believe that was the case & still is.

    This means that if he (M.McGuinness) was in the IRA after 1974, the Irish govt. could easily have had him thrown in prison at any point from 1974 - till the mid 1990's if it believed he was in the IRA.

    But it didnt.
    It is true that a person could be convicted on the evidence of a Garda Assistant commissioner - after a point. It is also clear that various Garda Commissioners did think he was in the IRA.
    This just tells us that he wasn't convicted, not because he wasn't a member, but because the authorities chose not to convict, presumably for political or operational reasons.

    Do you think he wasn't in the IRA after 1974? Does anyone?


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    #1737
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    dvpower wrote: »
    Do you think he wasn't in the IRA after 1974? Does anyone?

    I don't know. Neither do you.


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    #1738
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    newballsplease wrote: »
    People voting for Dana- Has to be taking the piss?
    The woman looks and sounds like shes on the verge of a breakdown in fairness.
    No way suitable as President of Ireland.

    There was a time during the show last night when I felt genuine pity for the poor woman.

    Its not nice to see someone fall apart like we've seen Dana, she's off the wall stone crazy mad - she should really withdraw (into an asylum).


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    #1739
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Morlar wrote: »
    I don't know. Neither do you.
    Neither of us know for certain, but we don't need to know to pass a judgement (in the election). Most people think he remained in the IRA and think he isn't credible when he says he left in 1974.

    I just don't understand why he persists with it. At least if he came clean, people could move on to the next question - does it matter that he was in the IRA?
    Personally I think he would have been better off if he simply refused to answer the question; people understand that various fudges were required in the peace process, but telling what most people regard as a bare faced lie every time he's asked the question just makes him look small.


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    #1740
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    dvpower wrote: »
    Neither of us know for certain, but we don't need to know to pass a judgement (in the election).

    It usually helps though doesn't it ? Otherwise you are just making random assumptions.
    dvpower wrote: »
    Most people think he remained in the IRA and think he isn't credible when he says he left in 1974.

    Are you basing this on 'most people' you know or 'most people' in a survey ?
    dvpower wrote: »
    I just don't understand why he persists with it. At least if he came clean, people could move on to the next question - does it matter that he was in the IRA?
    Personally I think he would have been better off if he simply refused to answer the question; people understand that various fudges were required in the peace process, but telling what most people regard as a bare faced lie every time he's asked the question just makes him look small.

    Earlier this week it was his alleged westminister salary, then it was his income level, then it was his redacted utility bills, now we are back to this. Is there anything of substance in the Anti-McGuinness campaign aside from a series of unproven allegations ? How about moving from negative campaigning to positive campaigning.






    What does your preferred candidate have to offer ?


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    #1741
    Stinicker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,102 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    I'm voting No.1 for McGuinness and giving No. 2 to Michael D. Higgins and to hell with the rest of them. Miriam O'Callaghan was a disgrace last night on RTÉ and it just shows how much RTÉ are trying to get their FF cronie Gallagher up in the polls. If anyone thinks RTÉ is Government biased they are kidding themselves, RTÉ Pravada are only the mouthpiece of the FF traitor party and I personally would go to jail before I'd ever pay them a licence fee and the propaganda they spout for that party, most of their TV presenters are directly linked to Fianna Fail like Tubridy and O'Callaghan, a thundering disgrace and I hope FG swings the axe heavily on them and close them all down.


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