The Official After Hours Presidential Election Thread **POLL RESET 23/10**

billybudd

fluorescence wrote: »

This is part of what I was trying (poorly, admittedly) to express before everyone jumped on me for using the term "Irish Republic" in an off-handed manner.

He doesn't represent the people of this country, IMO.

You mean he just does not sit down and accept second class citizen status, people like you do not represent me, and I am Irish. If fighting for equality and self determining is wrong well then you’re right.

gigino

billybudd wrote: »

MMG has been instrumental in bringing peace to the northern region of Ireland

He was also instrumental , as leader of the PIRA, in bringing much suffering to the people of Ireland and further afeild, over the course of 3 decades.

If a wifebeater stops beating his wife / family after 3 decades do you credit him with being a great homemaker / peacemaker ?

billybudd

gigino wrote: »

He was also instrumental , as leader of the PIRA, in bringing much suffering to the people of Ireland and further afeild, over the course of 3 decades.

If a wifebeater stops beating his wife / family after 3 decades do you credit him with being a great homemaker / peacemaker ?

The wife beater is seeking equality? and a right to his national identity?

gigino

billybudd wrote: »

The wife beater is seeking equality? and a right to his national identity?

equality legislation etc was well in place for many years when McG was bombing amd kidnapping + shooting in the back. The people he attacked were seeking equality. Hume and Gerry Fitt and others had a national identidy without being the leader of the organisation which bombed people in restaurants, shops etc. Or shot Gardai + Irish army soldiers.;)

Peep O'Day

murpho999 wrote: »

What a load of pretentious shoite.



Finally majority of Europeans think we are British anyway and no nothing about this country so it's not as big an issue on the International stage as you think.

How far up your arse did you have to dig to pull that one out? What an insult to the intelligence of our european neighbours.

"What a load of pretentious shoite" indeed...

billybudd

gigino wrote: »

equality legislation etc was well in place for many years when McG was bombing amd kidnapping + shooting in the back. The people he attacked were seeking equality. Hume and Gerry Fitt and others had a national identidy without being the leader of the organisation which bombed people in restaurants, shops etc. Or shot Gardai + Irish army soldiers.;)

Maybe in theory they where, in reality there was no eqaulity for alot of people, you have a poor sense of history if you think they where the only ones who commited those things against civillians, if you live in the Irish republic then you live there because people from generations past committed those same acts against innocent bystanders for the right of self determination.

Gummy Panda

I'm voting for yoda

IRISHREDSTAR

We don't need a president they do sod all and cost millions. All these very important roles they have, to up hold the constitution and refuse to sign bad laws etc. who does this when they are away on holidays abroad because that's were they are most of the time.
The high court throws out a fair bit of law as unconstitutional who signed it into law in the first place only the f*8cking goby president of the day.

vote no.1 for Norris at lest he will upset the bigots.

Pompey Magnus

gigino wrote: »

He was also instrumental , as leader of the PIRA, in bringing much suffering to the people of Ireland and further afeild, over the course of 3 decades.

If a wifebeater stops beating his wife / family after 3 decades do you credit him with being a great homemaker / peacemaker ?

Martin McGuinness' decision to join the IRA did not bring the suffering to those people, he did not invent the armed struggle in Northern Ireland! If he had taken up a job as an accountant or teacher just as many (and most probably alot more) would still have suffered and died in the Troubles.

Men with backgrounds in the conflict were absolutely instrumental in bringing about the ceasefires, without the work of people like McGuinness and on the other side Gusty Spence and David Ervine then there would still be people dying today, their contributions were just as vital as that of people like John Hume and had they decided to take the completely peaceful route from the very beginning they wouldn't have had a fraction of the impact they did have.

delaad

gigino wrote: »

He was also instrumental , as leader of the PIRA, in bringing much suffering to the people of Ireland and further afeild, over the course of 3 decades.

Who are "the people of Ireland", gigino?

billybudd

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

Martin McGuinness' decision to join the IRA did not bring the suffering to those people, he did not invent the armed struggle in Northern Ireland! If he had taken up a job as an accountant or teacher just as many (and most probably alot more) would still have suffered and died in the Troubles.

Men with backgrounds in the conflict were absolutely instrumental in bringing about the ceasefires, without the work of people like McGuinness and on the other side Gusty Spence and David Ervine then there would still be people dying today, their contributions were just as vital as that of people like John Hume and had they decided to take the completely peaceful route from the very beginning they wouldn't have had a fraction of the impact they did have.

Yes and people who denounce MMG past in the Ira should denounce their Irish citizenship as they are Irish citizens because of the same means that where used by the Ira.

Liam Byrne

Deedsie wrote: »

fluorescence wrote: »

At least David Norris recognises the Irish republic! McGuinness doesn't even appear to acknowledge that the Republic of Ireland is a separate country ruled by different people, and not just some small part of a larger Ireland :rolleyes:

MMG has stated he wants to set up a new republic. He does recognize Ireland, of course he does! He just thinks its current structure is flawed! I agree with him!

That's not for him - or you - to decide.

Liam Byrne

billybudd wrote: »

Maybe in theory they where, in reality there was no eqaulity for alot of people, you have a poor sense of history if you think they where the only ones who commited those things against civillians, if you live in the Irish republic then you live there because people from generations past committed those same acts against innocent bystanders for the right of self determination.

No-one claimed they were "the only ones" FFS! This lie is getting very tiresome.

As for many people not being equal - that's true - the innocent victims that were murdered were obviously the ones that McG & Co didn't view as "equal"

Happyman42

Liam Byrne wrote: »

No-one claimed they were "the only ones" FFS! This lie is getting very tiresome.

As for many people not being equal - that's true - the innocent victims that were murdered were obviously the ones that McG & Co didn't view as "equal"

Have you asked the British Army to stand down or objected to the Defence Minister's future career?

Deedsie

Double post

Deedsie

Liam Byrne wrote: »

That's not for him - or you - to decide.

I fleshed the comment out a bit in 1765.

It's for the electorate and the Oireachtas to decide what way this state is run. As a member of the electorate, I am entitle to my stake in that decision. Irish Men and Women; fought, died and killed to guarantee future generations would have the right to choose how our country is run!

Pompey Magnus

billybudd wrote: »

Yes and people who denounce MMG past in the Ira should denounce their Irish citizenship as they are Irish citizens because of the same means that where used by the Ira.

Have you not heard? Apparently the Old IRA were all gentlemen freedom fighters, brave young handsome Irish lads who played by the rules and would never, ever even consider targeting innocent civilians. Any RIC men they killed were taking the Queen's shilling and so can never be considered ordinary Irishmen just doing their job...a completely different scenario to the killing of Garda Jerry McCabe in every single way and it is one step below blasphemy to even consider making such a comparison...their widows were all harlots and so their suffering just doesn't count.

The PIRA on the otherhand were modern day Neanderthals whose initiation ceremony involved selling their souls to Satan whilst bathing in the blood of Protestant children, evil incarnate in every single way. Had they not existed then both communities in Northern Ireland would have lived in complete peace and unity with one another.

An example of their pure evil was the fact that the PIRA commander in Derry in the 1970s ordered two Catholic teenage girls to be executed for nothing more than just being romantically involved with 2 British soldiers. How disgusting and nothing less than you would expect from those monsters I hear you say...oh wait, I am mistaken, actually that was the hero Michael Collins in the 1920s who gave that order, so lets just ignore that one as it doesn't fit with our myth, shall we?

At least this seems to be the revisionist history that some in the Republic would desperately like to portray.

Liam Byrne

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

Have you not heard? Apparently the Old IRA were all gentlemen freedom fighters, brave young handsome Irish lads who played by the rules and would never, ever even consider targeting innocent civilians. Any RIC men they killed were taking the Queen's shilling and so can never be considered ordinary Irishmen just doing their job...a completely different scenario to the killing of Garda Jerry McCabe in every single way and it is one step below blasphemy to even consider making such a comparison...their widows were all harlots and so their suffering just doesn't count.

The PIRA on the otherhand were modern day Neanderthals whose initiation ceremony involved selling their souls to Satan whilst bathing in the blood of Protestant children, evil incarnate in every single way. Had they not existed then both communities in Northern Ireland would have lived in complete peace and unity with one another.

An example of their pure evil was the fact that the PIRA commander in Derry in the 1970s ordered two Catholic teenage girls to be executed for nothing more than just being romantically involved with 2 British soldiers. How disgusting and nothing less than you would expect from those monsters I hear you say...oh wait, I am mistaken, actually that was the hero Michael Collins in the 1920s who gave that order, so lets just ignore that one as it doesn't fit with our myth, shall we?

At least this seems to be the revisionist history that some in the Republic would desperately like to portray.

Is Michael Collins running for election now?

sdanseo

billybudd wrote: »

wow!

Would you care to elaborate on your pathetically lazy yet sarcasm-laden comment? Anything constructive perhaps?

IRISHREDSTAR wrote: »

We don't need a president they do sod all and cost millions. All these very important roles they have, to up hold the constitution and refuse to sign bad laws etc. who does this when they are away on holidays abroad because that's were they are most of the time.
The high court throws out a fair bit of law as unconstitutional who signed it into law in the first place only the f*8cking goby president of the day.

vote no.1 for Norris at lest he will upset the bigots.

We need a President as per the constitution, and I very much doubt any referendum would pass that suggested abolishing the office.

Badgermonkey

Sean Gallagher = FF

Seems some folks will never learn.

Pompey Magnus

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Is Michael Collins running for election now?

I'm pretty sure you got my point and are just being difficult but if not I will clarify what should have been obvious.

There are far too many Irish people with a pathetic knowledge of what the Old IRA were really like, they are happy to praise men like Collins at great Irish heroes whilst condemning McGuinness yet are completely oblivious to the fact that Collins and McGuinness are an awful lot closer in character to one another than many would like to admit.

sdanseo

Badgermonkey wrote: »

Sean Gallagher = FF

Seems some folks will never learn.

In fairness, Mary McAleese was a FF nominee and she's being widely coined as our best ever President - an opinion I'd have to agree with, though I've only lived through the tenures of three of them.

The President is more about the person's innovation and character than their party politics. Gallagher might be bred into FF and the business world, doesn't nessecarily mean he's a crook and therefore he will get a (low) preference from me.

I'm rethinking Norris too. I was originally in favour, then I swung in a debate on here to no support, but now I'm in two minds. I still have reservations over the controversies, he is an odd man but seems to have a certain energy and character that would make for a good President nonetheless.

Looking like my ballot will be

1. Higgins
2/3. Gallagher/Norris

Outside chance of me giving McGuinness a 4th preference.

Mitchell - I get the impression this chap is a nice guy, who really does mean well, but he's weak, apparently uber-religious and on mature reflection, almost every time he has impressed me has in fact been when sniping at Martin McGuinness in one way or another. Very outside chance of a No. 5 preference.

Dana - get out of my country, go be a US citizen instead.

Davis - really does come across as a stubborn auld bint more deserving of a good slap than a vote. Anyone agree?

Wolfe Tone

I would certainly say that Adams and Collins are quite similar.

irishdude11

Here is a good post from another Irish politics board summing up Sean Gallagher -



So here is Sean Gallagher's linkedin profile - Seán Gallagher - Ireland | LinkedIn

In this election campaign he is portraying himself as some kind of Steve Jobs figure with an amazing track record in business when he is anything but. Here is his experience from linkedin, in his own words.

Here is what he lists as his experience -

Independent Candidate
Presidential Election 2011
Public Policy industry
May 2011 – Present (6 months) Ireland
Independent Candidate for the Irish Presidential Election 2011
??? lol


Panelist
RTE Dragons Den
Public Company; Media Production industry
January 2009 – May 2011 (2 years 5 months)


CEO & Co-Founder
Smarthomes
Privately Held; Building Materials industry
2002 – 2010 (8 years)

Surely there must be some mistake in this CV? With all we have been hearing about Gallagher's near supernatural business accumen surely there must be dozens of successful businesses that he has been at the helm of?

Eh no...his only business worth mentioning was Smarthomes that operated during a massive property bubble. And how did that turn out? He was replaced in 2010 as managing director as the business was going down the tubes - 'Dragon' predicts Smarthomes will return to profit - Irish, Business - Independent.ie

The figures show that the company's after-tax losses last year of €492,292 follow the company recording pre-tax profits of €533,100 only three years ago. The loss last year followed the company sustaining an after-tax loss of €678,016 in 2008.

So what is all this nonsense about how he can create jobs and can use his business experience...blah blah blah...He has done feck all in the business world, he has basically one failed business to his name. Its not like revolutionised an industry or even ran a long term successful business. He made a few quid off the back of FF-induced property bubble and when the bubble burst so did his business. There are hundreds of thousands of business people in this country with more experience and success in running a business than Gallagher. For example - your average local shopkeeper/publican/farmer has run a more successful business than Gallagher. These people run businesses that are sustainable in the real world not like Gallagher's business that was only viable during a massive property bubble and has been hemorrhaging money since it ended.

He has one other business though, his corporate speaking business, ie. professional spoofing. He has been a total spoofer when it comes to what he has done in business world which is bascially feck all. He has also been spoofing about level of involvement with the maFFia. He is up to his ears in FF, and he has lied about that saying he was no longer active since 2009 when it has been proven that he was up and down the country campaigning for several FF candidates at the 2011 general election, including the leader Micheal Martin. He was out doing his best to get FF re-elected in 2011 after they had just bankrupted the country and caused unprecedented hardship for families all over Ireland...hardly the best business decision for the country? But what more can you expect from a guy who ran one failed business that was only viable for a short space of time due to a massive property bubble.

I suspect, like many businessman who made a few quid off the back of the bubble, he is in not in great finanacial shape now. If it wasnt for the professional spoofing gig, sorry I mean corporate speaking gig, he would probably be cleaned out like his FF developer buddies. But its hard to be a professional speaker on business matters when you aren't even in business anymore so I suspect he decided to try spoof his way into the Aras before the professional spoofing gigs dried up and he would be left high and dry. That is my firm belief, I would put money on that. The only problem is that as we have such a dearth of decent candidates this failed businessman/Fianna Failer/professional spoofer is in real danger of actually succeeding.

Only in Ireland would a guy with such a mediocre business track record, and who has been a prolific member of the political party that destroyed the country's finances, be a top contender for the Presidency.

irishdude11

Im voting for McGuinnes no 1 and Higgins no 2. The only two candidates with any slight bit of credibility.

Wolfe Tone

There was a rally for Martin McGuinness earlier tonight in the Mansion House, you can watch a video of it here

http://www.facebook.com/Martin4President?sk=app_196506863720166

Martin has secured the Star Trek fan vote it seems... (Colm Meaney hosted it)

K-9

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

Does it bother you that the men who founded the state you care about didn't use law and order to achieve their aims?

No, they had the democratic will of the majority behind them. Does it bother you that the Real IRA don't use law and order to achieve their aims?

billybudd

K-9 wrote: »

No, they had the democratic will of the majority behind them. Does it bother you that the Real IRA don't use law and order to achieve their aims?

Does the majority overule law?

Pompey Magnus

K-9 wrote: »

No, they had the democratic will of the majority behind them.

No they certainly did not, prior to 1916 by far the biggest political party in Ireland was the Irish Parliamentary Party which sought a peaceful, political solution to Irish demands. The Irish people did not elect a single MP who advocated armed rebellion in the General Election prior to the Easter Rising. Also the vast majority of the Volunteers sided with Redmond in his support with the British war effort in Europe. The Irish rebels were a fringe movement with absolutely no democratic mandate to do what they did.

K-9

billybudd wrote: »

Does the majority overule law?

No, neither does a minority.

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

No they certainly did not, prior to 1916 by far the biggest political party in Ireland was the Irish Parliamentary Party which sought a peaceful, political solution to Irish demands. The Irish people did not elect a single MP who advocated armed rebellion in the General Election prior to the Easter Rising. Also the vast majority of the Volunteers sided with Redmond in his support with the British war effort in Europe. The Irish rebels were a fringe movement with absolutely no democratic mandate to do what they did.

Yeah, they got an overwhelming mandate in 1918.