The Official After Hours Presidential Election Thread **POLL RESET 23/10**

fishy fishy

KeithAFC wrote: »

I did watch it and it amazes me that some people are "upset" about the line of questioning. Most of them don't have the sort of past Martin Mcguinness has and only David Norris has any real controversy about him.

If the boot was on the other foot and say some one from the other side of the conflict was running and had taken part in the Dublin and Monaghan bombing, surely that person would be getting constant questions?

why would people be upset when in fact the more the media bare their teeth, the more votes McGuinness is security. Keep it up is what I say. Its doing wonders - he should be number 1 in the polls soon.

Happyman42

Captain Darling wrote: »

Absolutely not. And give political creedence of any form to Sinn Fein? Are you aware of their economic policies? That would be my main reason for opposing McGuinness. I wouldnt let them run a model railway!

If they were to get into power in this country it would be a disaster, but thats another days argument for the coneheads in here.

That would be a NO then? :D

Morlar

fishy fishy wrote: »

if he repulsed a large proportion of Irish people he wouldn't be number 2 in the polls now would he - apply some logic please. :rolleyes:

I think the truth of it is that there is a small portion of the population who are massively repulsed. Now we are watching them throw their toys out of the pram. That is all.

Lord TSC

fishy fishy wrote: »

if he repulsed a large proportion of Irish people he wouldn't be number 2 in the polls now would he - apply some logic please. :rolleyes:

Um...being number two in the polls means just over 20% like him. He doesn't have a majority behind him; he has a large minority. Meanwhile, when asked who people would least like as president by the Irish Times iirc, he topped that poll with near 40%. Yeah, that's democracy and its what I hate about our voting system, but lets not act like he's loved by a vast majority and its only a small group who have problems with him.

Also, @Molar...

We can't talk about his past in the North, unless its in a positive way.
We can't talk about the SF policies, unless its in a positive way.

Is his campaign that shakey that we are not allowed to voice our problems at all? Are you that resistant to other peoples opinions that you simply refuse to discuss any of them? Thats what annoys me so much about this discussion; people raise genuine criticisms but are met with a stone wall "**** off" response...what are we allowed discuss and debate on then?

K-9

fishy fishy wrote: »

if he repulsed a large proportion of Irish people he wouldn't be number 2 in the polls now would he - apply some logic please. :rolleyes:

No he's using normal logic, not Shinner logic.

McGuinness is the candidate that attracts most opposition, the most divisive candidate. Having 20% or so support doesn't mean he doesn't attract big opposition!

Captain Darling

Morlar wrote: »

If you are unwilling to answer a clear honest straight question then I will answer it for you.

Everyone reading this knows you are simply mudslinging against McGuinness.

Desperately clutching at straws in the process.

First today we had your nonsense repeated spurious allegations that McGuinness intimidated MOC. Now when that didn't work you progress to trying to make a non exsistent connection between the President of Ireland and Irish State Economic policy.

Knowing full well there is no connection.

The reason you try to do this is because you think SF economic policy would not sit well with voters and may damage M.McGuiness's chances.

What's behind all of this is either your

a ) sincere but irrational fear of Martin Mcguiness being President
or
b ) 'at all costs' anti-republican outlook (of the Eoghan Harris and Myers strain)

No, i am enjoying the defensive reactions of the Sinn Fein supporters to criticism. I thought i explained that earlier? The circle the wagon mentality of the party is one of the things that really puts me off them. I suppose its a seige thing brought down from oop North.

Anyways, you never answered my question in relation to Sinn Fein economic policies? Its separate from the Presidential issue, but in terms of future strategy, the position would be a key foothold for future support in elections to the Dail.

Morlar

Captain Darling wrote: »

No, i am enjoying the defensive reactions of the Sinn Fein supporters to criticism.

Umm, Isn't that trolling or something very close to it ?

Captain Darling wrote: »

It floats my boat in a kinky kind of way. I'm sitting here with clothes pegs on my nipples waiting for another self pompous post so i can flaggelate myself furiously.

fishy fishy

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Um...being number two in the polls means just over 20% like him. He doesn't have a majority behind him; he has a large minority. Meanwhile, when asked who people would least like as president by the Irish Times iirc, he topped that poll with near 40%. Yeah, that's democracy and its what I hate about our voting system, but lets not act like he's loved by a vast majority and its only a small group who have problems with him.

Also, @Molar...

We can't talk about his past in the North, unless its in a positive way.
We can't talk about the SF policies, unless its in a positive way.

Is his campaign that shakey that we are not allowed to voice our problems at all? Are you that resistant to other peoples opinions that you simply refuse to discuss any of them? Thats what annoys me so much about this discussion; people raise genuine criticisms but are met with a stone wall "**** off" response...what are we allowed discuss and debate on then?

Ill take his 20% "minority" as you put it, over the others minus %'tages then. Was that an RTE Presenter Poll by the way that was done - sounds like it

dvpower

fishy fishy wrote: »

if he repulsed a large proportion of Irish people he wouldn't be number 2 in the polls now would he - apply some logic please. :rolleyes:

Maths mightn't be your strong point. He is on c.20% - that leaves c.80% of the Irish people who don't favour him. (There is plenty of room in there for a large proportion to be repulsed by him).

Some SF supporters seem to inhabit a bubble:rolleyes:

dvpower

Morlar wrote: »

I think the truth of it is that there is a small portion of the population who are massively repulsed.

That's probably true. I think there are also a sizable portion that would be very uncomfortable with him, evidenced by the fact that he is transfer unfriendly.

Badgermonkey

Lord Trollington wrote: »

I would absolutely love to see MMG to win the election after all of this.

Are you Kevin Keegan?

Morlar

dvpower wrote: »

Maths mightn't be your strong point. He is on c.20% - that leaves c.80% of the Irish people who don't favour him.. . . [/SIZE]

Some SF supporters seem to inhabit a bubble:rolleyes

Arent you assuming that people voting for Dana or Gallagher etc are therefore anti-McGuinness ?

Just because you vote FOR one candidate does not therefore follow you are ANTI the other candidate. There is room for subtlety and nuance here. Some people may prefer one aspect of one candidates platform but on balance go with another candidate because it aligns in a more critical way to them personally etc.

No candidate will get 100% votes.

That does not mean that they are hated by everyone who does not vote for them.

Particularly in a 7 horse race.

Morlar

dvpower wrote: »

That's probably true. I think there are also a sizable portion that would be very uncomfortable with him, evidenced by the fact that he is transfer unfriendly.

I'd say slightly uneasy rather than 'very uncomfortable'.

Of that portion I'd say it's in large part due to media scaremongering. Of the remainder I'd say on honest reflection there is not an awful lot of meaningful substance to it. It's an emotional rather than a logical uneasiness. imo.

billymitchell

What happened the Dana thread about the "alleged" allegations??

Captain Darling

Morlar wrote: »

Umm, Isn't that trolling or something very close to it ?

I dont know, i' perhaps i've justified a point about Sinn Fein though. In all these threads their supporters seem to be the on shouting the loudest. My point is valid though about the future and the position being a foothold for the party.

Maybe i missed it though, but you still havent commented on their economic policies. I think it is relevant in terms of developing support for future general elections. We can all be nationalists, but i dont want to be reading a beardy Shinner version of Pravda in the future. :pac:

fishy fishy

dvpower wrote: »

Maths mightn't be your strong point. He is on c.20% - that leaves c.80% of the Irish people who don't favour him. (There is plenty of room in there for a large proportion to be repulsed by him).

Some SF supporters seem to inhabit a bubble:rolleyes:

keeping your "simple' logic we have 20% definitely favour him - that leaves 80% divided into 6 for the rest of them which is an average of 13.3% each - yipee!!

In reality tho, you are not taking anything else into consideration except your "positive" notion that 20 % favours McGuinness and 80% dont' - I think its yourself that needs to go back and to your sums. Things are a lot more complex that 100 - 20 = 80, you know.

A1Nutboy

billymitchell wrote: »

What happened the Dana thread about the "alleged" allegations??

NASA, Mossad and the Rand corporation have removed it. Dana is actually a robot created by the CIA, the real person was switched years ago, to win the presidential election and turn Shannon airport into an American military base. You heard it here first.

Allegedly of course

Morlar

Captain Darling wrote: »

i dont want to be reading a beardy Shinner version of Pravda in the future. :pac

That time I said your credibility was at an all time high ? I might have spoke too soon.

dvpower

Morlar wrote: »

Arent you assuming that people voting for Dana or Gallagher etc are therefore anti-McGuinness ?

No. Not at all. I was careful to say that 80% 'don't favour him'.

Other polls (mentioned above) have pointed to a lot of people actively disliking him (as opposed to being ambivalent).
And the transfer analysis of the polls point to his unpopularity.

dvpower

fishy fishy wrote: »

keeping your "simple' logic we have 20% definitely favour him - that leaves 80% divided into 6 for the rest of them which is an average of 13.3% each - yipee!!

Jesus wept.


Next.

Captain Darling

Morlar wrote: »

That time I said your credibility was at an all time high ? I might have spoke too soon.

Its after hours. Home of the semi informed and barely literate. Can a good, honest to god, semi troll get no respect around here??

Still, silence on the economic policy front. Thats another days argument though. No need to discuss that here. :rolleyes:

Lord TSC

fishy fishy wrote: »

Ill take his 20% "minority" as you put it, over the others minus %'tages then. Was that an RTE Presenter Poll by the way that was done - sounds like it

Sums up the problem with these debates; rather than answer the question, deflect it into an attack on someone else :rolleyes:

fishy fishy

dvpower wrote: »

Jesus wept.


Next.

he did ya, when he was being crucified. But Martin is tougher than that.

fishy fishy

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Sums up the problem with these debates; rather than answer the question, deflect it into an attack on someone else :rolleyes:

no, its called selective percentages - that's all.

dvpower

Here are the second preference figures from the Red C-Sunday Business Post poll from 25th September

Gay Mitchell 14%
Michael D. Higgins 20%
Sean Gallagher 14%
Mary Davis 16%
Martin McGuinness 8%
David Norris 6%
Dana Rosemary Scallon 7%

As it stands, MMcG would need to be a whole lot further ahead than Michael D in order to beat him with just 8% of second preferences.

Captain Darling

fishy fishy wrote: »

no, its called selective percentages - that's all.

I think collateral damage could be used to describe the whole presidential race. Who ever has the least amount of sh1t thrown at them wins. At the moment Micky D is in the lead, because everyone knows already he is off the wall. There's no point publishing that.

When did i become such a cynic?

K-9

dvpower wrote: »

Here are the second preference figures from the Red C-Sunday Business Post poll from 25th September

Gay Mitchell 14%
Michael D. Higgins 20%
Sean Gallagher 14%
Mary Davis 16%
Martin McGuinness 8%
David Norris 6%
Dana Rosemary Scallon 7%

As it stands, MMcG would need to be a whole lot further ahead than Michael D in order to beat him with just 8% of second preferences.

Jaysus, just beats Dana and Norris, he doesn't have a hope.

dvpower

K-9 wrote: »

Jaysus, just beats Dana and Norris, he doesn't have a hope.

Obviously it comes with a health warning - its a snapshot and an out of date one at that, but without something very dramatic happening in Michael D's campaign, he's going to romp it.

c_man

Vandalised McGuinness poster spotted, "Let's get back to the boom times"

Deedsie

c_man wrote: »

Vandalised McGuinness poster spotted, "Let's get back to the boom times"

I like that... Ha!