The Official After Hours Presidential Election Thread POLL RESET 23/10

Mr.Saturn · 29-09-2011 1:34am

Such a turnaround from 2004, where there was no candidates at all.

Liam Byrne · 29-09-2011 1:36am

Mr.Saturn wrote: »

Such a turnaround from 2004, where there was no candidates at all.

A turnaround alright - there were more decent candidates in 2004!

x_Ellie_x · 29-09-2011 2:04am

I'm not going to waste my time voting on this. I think its stupid and pointless to have a president of Ireland. We don't need one. Basically all they do is get paid way too much to go on free holidays to different countries to attend parties.

Deedsie · 29-09-2011 7:15am

Any reports on how transfer friendly David Norris will be? He certainly has the majority of Boards.ie users so far!

Pompey Magnus · 29-09-2011 7:29am

Deedsie wrote: »

Any reports on how transfer friendly David Norris will be? He certainly has the majority of Boards.ie users so far!

The most recent survey showed Norris and McGuinness doing very poorly on transfers, which isn't very surprising. Michael D Higgins is the most transfer friendly and given his strong showing in first preferences also I reckon he should win the election comfortably.

Deedsie · 29-09-2011 7:34am

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

The most recent survey showed Norris and McGuinness doing very poorly on transfers, which isn't very surprising. Michael D Higgins is the most transfer friendly and given his strong showing in first preferences also I reckon he should win the election comfortably.

I think Michael D. H will win it myself. I knew McGuinness would be the least transfer friendly, but I thought Norris could get a few number 2's. It probably won't be enough for him to win it but should be interesting! I wonder where McGuinness's transfers will go? He'll probably get 10% of first preferences thats alot of vtoes if they all vote number 2 similarly?

Pompey Magnus · 29-09-2011 7:44am

Deedsie wrote: »

I think Michael D. H will win it myself. I knew McGuinness would be the least transfer friendly, but I thought Norris could get a few number 2's. It probably won't be enough for him to win it but should be interesting! I wonder where McGuinness's transfers will go? He'll probably get 10% of first preferences thats alot of vtoes if they all vote number 2 similarly?

I think the feelings for Norris are too polarised at this stage, I don't think he can expect near enough number 2's. As for McGuinness I'd expect the vast bulk of his 2nd preferences will go to Higgins, I can't see too many McGuinness votes going the way of Norris.

Lord TSC · 29-09-2011 9:01am

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Why is it that some people are less willing to support one connected to helping another accused of statutory rape than one connected with many atrocities including murder (deliberate, accidental or execution)?

Surely murder is more heinous than statutory rape.

"You can't prove he killed anyone, and even if he did, he's a hero for what he's done because they deserved it!"

[/standard retort from MMG supporters]

Kev_ps3 · 29-09-2011 9:11am

Whats the big deal with Norris? I guessing its the whole liberal gay thing, its like Obama, liberals want to fell they are voting for a minority or something. Plus the posh English accent seals the deal!

Freddie59 · 29-09-2011 9:25am

Zachariah Fancy Welfare wrote: »

When I was a 15 year old boy, if a fat 65 year old male teacher "buggered" me, then yes. And I think I speak for 99.9% of the people on boards.

I would agree. But, unfortunately, boards seems to be populated by a significant amount of people who are, for whatever reason, defending this appalling act.

efb · 29-09-2011 9:30am

Freddie59 wrote: »

Zachariah Fancy Welfare wrote: »

When I was a 15 year old boy, if a fat 65 year old male teacher "buggered" me, then yes. And I think I speak for 99.9% of the people on boards.

I would agree. But, unfortunately, boards seems to be populated by a significant amount of people who are, for whatever reason, defending this appalling act.

Where does Norris support sexual assault?

Freddie59 · 29-09-2011 9:31am

efb wrote: »

It's not Statatory- that's the point!

I'd say the person it's being perpetrated on wouldn't really care how it's described.....

Freddie59 · 29-09-2011 9:35am

dark crystal wrote: »

Lol, why are people still so incredulous when others state a preference for Norris? Everyone has differing opinions and many are supporting Norris for reasons other than his personal views on sexuality. There is more to him than just that, you know!

He has campaigned on mental health and child abuse issues and has campaigned against some of the actions of the United States during its early 21st century 'War On Terror' including the confinement of suspected terrorists in Guantanamo Bay. He is also a strong critic of both Irish Loyalist and Republican terrorism.
He has also been nominated for the European Human Rights Prize.

Along with colleagues (such as Mary Robinson), he was responsible for managing to get homosexuality de-criminalised in the Irish Republic in 1993.

Just on some of the above points you raised, however, if you scratch the surface of some of his comments, you would see he is making some valid points.
Take the age of consent issue, for example - his view of the age of consent is applied solely to what is called the 'Romeo and Juliet' issue: that is, a young boy and girl who have had sex while one or other is under the age of consent. Norris argues in favour of the discretion of a judge and I honestly don't see a problem with that.

I will be supporting him, not because of his sexuality, not because of some letters he wrote asking for clemency for a dear friend who had an ill-judged relationship with someone he believed was of age at the time and was desperate for help, but because I genuinely believe he is the best man for the job.

People are free to disagree - as is their right - but I wish people would start looking behind the headlines a bit more. If after you read about everything he has stood up for and achieved during his career and still dislike him, then fair enough. But condemning him for one personal incident in a whole career seems unfair to me.

Anything he has done has been obliterated by recent events. Period.

efb · 29-09-2011 9:35am

Freddie59 wrote: »

efb wrote: »

It's not Statatory- that's the point!

I'd say the person it's being perpetrated on wouldn't really care how it's described.....

If I at 16 was having consentual sex with my bf of 17 that would be considered statutory rape oh his part.
Do younthink that should be judged the same as a heinous sex attack a la Larry Murphy, Fr Brendan Smyth???

Freddie59 · 29-09-2011 9:39am

efb wrote: »

If I at 16 was having consentual sex with my bf of 17 that would be considered statutory rape oh his part.
Do younthink that should be judged the same as a heinous sex attack a la Larry Murphy, Fr Brendan Smyth???

Let's say you had a 15 year-old son, raped by a 41 year-old man. I'd say you'd be singing a different tune then. Do you HAVE children, BTW?

efb · 29-09-2011 9:47am

Freddie59 wrote: »

efb wrote: »

If I at 16 was having consentual sex with my bf of 17 that would be considered statutory rape oh his part.
Do younthink that should be judged the same as a heinous sex attack a la Larry Murphy, Fr Brendan Smyth???

Let's say you had a 15 year-old son, raped by a 41 year-old man. I'd say you'd be singing a different tune then. Do you HAVE children, BTW?

If I a child that was sexually violated in any way I would be appalled.

But you are not comparing like with like.

If my 15 year old son entered into a sexual relationship with a considerably older man or woman I would discourage it and encourage them to find someone closer to his own age- irrespective of sexual orientation.

Kev_ps3 · 29-09-2011 9:48am

efb wrote: »

If I a child that was sexually violated in any way I would be appalled.

But you are not comparing like with like.

If my 15 year old son entered into a sexual relationship with a considerably older man or woman I would discourage it and encourage them to find someone closer to his own age- irrespective of sexual orientation.

discourage it lol

efb · 29-09-2011 9:54am

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

efb wrote: »

If I a child that was sexually violated in any way I would be appalled.

But you are not comparing like with like.

If my 15 year old son entered into a sexual relationship with a considerably older man or woman I would discourage it and encourage them to find someone closer to his own age- irrespective of sexual orientation.

discourage it lol

Sorry is this AH??? I'd bate the shight outa him and give him some Jessica Alba movies for him to fap off and cure himself....

I'd like to be able to understand why he sought out this relationship but discourage it.

I'd ask the older man not to make further contact with him- but I wouldn't want to play into the hands of teenage rebellion.

If the other lad was 17/18 I'd make sure they were aware of the consequences of sex. STIs etc

thebigbiffo · 29-09-2011 10:06am

Saw Norris on Grafton Street yesterday - I must say he looked extemely normal...just goes to show you never know what kind of weird, twisted deviant lies under an intellectual exterior.

dark crystal · 29-09-2011 10:18am

Freddie59 wrote: »

Anything he has done has been obliterated by recent events. Period.

And Norris supporters are being accused of being blinkered!

dark crystal · 29-09-2011 10:19am

thebigbiffo wrote: »

Saw Norris on Grafton Street yesterday - I must say he looked extemely normal...just goes to show you never know what kind of weird, twisted deviant lies under an intellectual exterior.

Lol, Catholic Ireland is alive and well in 2011.....

Pompey Magnus · 29-09-2011 10:27am

efb wrote: »

I'd like to be able to understand why he sought out this relationship but discourage it.

I'd ask the older man not to make further contact with him- but I wouldn't want to play into the hands of teenage rebellion.

So if you had a child who was the victim of statutory rape are you saying you would have a quiet word with the rapist but you wouldn't report him to the proper authorities?

Apologies in advance if I misunderstood your point but that's what it looks like you're saying.

efb · 29-09-2011 10:29am

Statuary rape doesn't exist in this country.

thebigbiffo · 29-09-2011 10:29am

dark crystal wrote: »

Lol, Catholic Ireland is alive and well in 2011.....

f'ucking liberal double standard BS. If it was a priest condoning pederasty and writing letters in the defence of convicted statutory rapists you’d call for his f’ucking head yet this guy should be head of state. makes me laugh.

And for the record I think the Vatican should be dismantled and the gold sold off to pay for AIDS victims and victims of clerical abuse – so I couldn’t give a red roasted f’uck about ‘catholic Ireland’, what I do give a f’uck about is a proven and self-confessed pederast sympathiser and apologist for statutory rapists being my head of state.

So yeah – the country’s a ****ed up place, but it’s cause of the likes of you.

efb · 29-09-2011 10:31am

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

So if you had a child who was the victim of statutory rape are you saying you would have a quiet word with the rapist but you wouldn't report him to the proper authorities?

Apologies in advance if I misunderstood your point but that's what it looks like you're saying.

If a man was was in a quasi concentual relationship with my son, I'd ask him to cease and desist. If I felt my son was in danger, or being exploited I'd report him to the authorities.

thebigbiffo · 29-09-2011 10:34am

efb wrote: »

If a man was was in a quasi concentual relationship with my son, I'd ask him to cease and desist. If I felt my son was in danger, or being exploited I'd report him to the authorities.

you believe a 35 year old shagging a 15 year old was not exploitation from the outset? Jesus I hope you never spawn.

efb · 29-09-2011 10:39am

thebigbiffo wrote: »

you believe a 35 year old shagging a 15 year old was not exploitation from the outset? Jesus I hope you never spawn.

shagging??? Plenty of the girls in Dunnes I used work with had bf s in their 30's when they were 16.

Its not preferable- but again its not Larry Murphy/Brendan Smith territory.

I am v unlikey to 'spawn' as you put it, biology has me on that one.

Lord TSC · 29-09-2011 10:39am

You know what's kind of annoying me. And I'll start this out by saying I do not condone a relationship between a 40 year old and a 15 year old, be they male or female, gay or straight.

But it strikes me that people have it in their head that Naswi was raping this teen in the context of "Holding him down, forcing the teenager to have sex against his will". There is a world of difference between that and what seemingly happened. Yes, what happened is still technically rape but it isn't as horrific as some people are trying to make out (Calling Norris evil and a kiddy-fidler for example; some people seem to be under the impression that Norris himself was holding down a 5 year old and helping his friend do the deed and then heading home to have a laugh about it over a nice glass of whiskey). This was two people in a relationship whose age were legally questionable and who morally went against what society thinks is acceptable.

Again, I'm not saying what happened wasn't morally wrong. It was. And the letter sending was stupid. But there are some people who are overexaggerating what has happened, are engaging hugely in hyperbole and making wild and dramatic statements which are only partially linked to reality.

EDIT:

you believe a 35 year old shagging a 15 year old was not exploitation from the outset? Jesus I hope you never spawn.

This is what I mean. There's a difference between possible exploitation and the level of rape which some people are suggesting.

dark crystal · 29-09-2011 10:44am

thebigbiffo wrote: »

f'ucking liberal double standard BS. If it was a priest condoning pederasty and writing letters in the defence of convicted statutory rapists you’d call for his f’ucking head yet this guy should be head of state. makes me laugh.

And for the record I think the Vatican should be dismantled and the gold sold off to pay for AIDS victims and victims of clerical abuse – so I couldn’t give a red roasted f’uck about ‘catholic Ireland’, what I do give a f’uck about is a proven and self-confessed pederast sympathiser and apologist for statutory rapists being my head of state.

So yeah – the country’s a ****ed up place, but it’s cause of the likes of you.

The likes of me?? That's a good one alright.

There are 13, 14, 15 year olds all over Ireland having sex and getting pregnant. Are you suggesting that all these people are being prosecuted? They aren't in most cases, because the sex was consensual, not forced.

Priests forced themselves onto young children, damaged them emotionally and physically, because they held a position of power. This wasn't the same situation at all.

If you bothered to look into what Norris is advocating, instead of buying into all the hysterical headlines, you might see there's actually some merit in what he's saying. Instead of criminalising these teenagers, he's saying there should be judiciary discretion in that grey area, where two teenagers under the age of consent have entered into a consensual sexual relationship, on a case to case basis.

I am liberal on this issue, yes, conservative on others, but calling someone a twisted deviant is just hyperbolic nonsense.

epgc3fyqirnbsx · 29-09-2011 10:52am

efb wrote: »

shagging??? Plenty of the girls in Dunnes I used work with had bf s in their 30's when they were 16.

Its not preferable- but again its not Larry Murphy/Brendan Smith territory.

I am v unlikey to 'spawn' as you put it, biology has me on that one.

Did any of them have bofriends in their 30's when they were 15? Because I would like to see such men answerable

And if Mr Norris had written a letter of clemency for a priest could you say you would honestly have the same reaction?
Or what if it was Enda Kenny who wrote such a letter?

The Official After Hours Presidential Election Thread **POLL RESET 23/10**

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The Official After Hours Presidential Election Thread POLL RESET 23/10