Property tax meetings

golfwallah

How about writing to your local councillors asking them to demand cost cuts in the Fingal Co Co Budget when it is put to them for their vote?

The easy alternative to cutting out waste (which might upset just a few people) is for the council to levy higher and higher charges on the ever suffering taxpayer - see: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056251802&page=7

Cardinal Richelieu

Unfinished Housing Estate list for Fingal from the Dept of Environment. Residents are exempt from the Household Charge.

https://www.householdcharge.ie/UHE/Fingal.pdf

Cardinal Richelieu

Anyone have feedback from the Property Tax Meeting in Lusk last Thursday? It was covered on RTE Drivetime.

Kintarō Hattori

I think there's one in Balbriggan tomorrow. Like Khannie I hate the idea of a property tax but if these meetings are mostly Socialist party driven then I'll most likely pass.

Khannie

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Like Khannie I hate the idea of a property tax but if these meetings are mostly Socialist party driven then I'll most likely pass.

Yeah, I'm still not inclined to head to those meetings, despite feeling strongly on the issue. My first line of defence will be simply not paying (as you can see from my sig ).

Lamper.sffc

Khannie wrote: »

Yeah, I'm still not inclined to head to those meetings, despite feeling strongly on the issue. My first line of defence will be simply not paying (as you can see from my sig ).

Im a bit late to this debate but have been to some recent meetings in Rush and Balbriggan. Meetings where fine and quite informative. Not much ranting at all from the socialists side. A few speakers spoke at the beginning to inform us about the campaign and also how they felt this was an injust tax and the floor was left open to take questions and for anybody to have there say.
Tds from all parties where invited to speak and either refused or simply didnt reply to the request except for a Sinn Fein guy (not sure of his name)

Im not that political myself and these are actually the first of these kind of meetings iv been to and as I said I found them to be fine.
What I would say to anybody would be to at least check one meeting out, then if its not for you its not for you. Better to at least make a judgement on the meetings and there agenda having witnessed one for yourself


Meeting this week in Rush in the strand. Not sure of time and date because i misplaced the leaflet:o. Maybe someone else in the know would have the info.


EDIT: Meeting tomorrow night (Wednesday 14th) in the Strand pub at 8pm

Khannie

Nice one. Thanks for the update. Yeah I think it's time I got up off my bum and went along to a meeting at this stage. I just saw this now though, 50 minutes after the meeting in Rush had started. By any chance do you know if there are any in Skerries any time soon?

Like most people my first line of defence will be just not paying. Beyond that though I'd be interested in an organised, non-political (i.e. not run by a single party) protest of some description.

Lamper.sffc

Khannie wrote: »

Nice one. Thanks for the update. Yeah I think it's time I got up off my bum and went along to a meeting at this stage. I just saw this now though, 50 minutes after the meeting in Rush had started. By any chance do you know if there are any in Skerries any time soon?

Like most people my first line of defence will be just not paying. Beyond that though I'd be interested in an organised, non-political (i.e. not run by a single party) protest of some description.

Not sure about Skerries sorry.If I hear anything Ill pop it up.

If you are intending not to pay, it would be a good idea alright to have some form of organised group to turn to for support (whoever that group may be)

A national indoor rally has been organised for the 24th of March. More info on the campaigns website http://nohouseholdtax.org/

Khannie

Lamper.sffc wrote: »

If you are intending not to pay, it would be a good idea alright to have some form of organised group to turn to for support (whoever that group may be)

Yeah good point.

Lamper.sffc wrote: »

A national indoor rally has been organised for the 24th of March. More info on the campaigns website http://nohouseholdtax.org/

Thanks. I'll try to be there.

Cardinal Richelieu

Khannie wrote: »

Yeah good point.



Thanks. I'll try to be there.

Did you go to the rally?

Khannie

I didn't make it. Sick children to the rescue! I heard it was a decent success though. Pics in the papers etc.

The Rooster

ragg wrote: »

I'd rather pay income tax than propery taxes.

This is just nuts.

I was reading elsewhere that someone on €25,000 is paying nearly €1,000 more in tax now than they were in 2008.

Someone on €50,000 is paying over €2,000 more.
Someone on €100,000 is paying over €5,000 more.

The PAYE worker has been hit hardest of everyone. If the household tax is abolished it'll be the PAYE worker who takes the hit again. The money has to come from somewhere, at least with the household charge its spread over a wider base.

And of course it will go up over time and be replaced by a property tax. But any PAYE worker who is against the household charge / property tax really hasn't thought it through.

As for the people who think that just because they paid stamp duty they should be exempt from certain future taxes, well you deserve a big :rolleyes:

The Hill Billy

Hi folks - before this goes off on a tangent into a general Politics discussion, can I remind you to keep this locally-relevant & on-topic.

Thanks,

tHB

BroomBurner

Is anyone heading in tomorrow for the protest?

I'm going in, and will be trying avoid the social workers party or any group that looks like they might cause trouble. I'm heading in on my own so far, but if anyone else is thinking of it and wants to join me for mutual support, let me know.

Lamper.sffc

The Rooster wrote: »

This is just nuts.

I was reading elsewhere that someone on €25,000 is paying nearly €1,000 more in tax now than they were in 2008.

Someone on €50,000 is paying over €2,000 more.
Someone on €100,000 is paying over €5,000 more.

The PAYE worker has been hit hardest of everyone. If the household tax is abolished it'll be the PAYE worker who takes the hit again. The money has to come from somewhere, at least with the household charge its spread over a wider base.

And of course it will go up over time and be replaced by a property tax. But any PAYE worker who is against the household charge / property tax really hasn't thought it through.

As for the people who think that just because they paid stamp duty they should be exempt from certain future taxes, well you deserve a big :rolleyes:

can i just take your :rolleyes: and give you a big

Lamper.sffc

BroomBurner wrote: »

Is anyone heading in tomorrow for the protest?

I'm going in, and will be trying avoid the social workers party or any group that looks like they might cause trouble. I'm heading in on my own so far, but if anyone else is thinking of it and wants to join me for mutual support, let me know.

Im going.

Im heading in for me and also to represent my parents and my widowed aunt who hasnt two cent to rub together. For me this has nothing to do with any parties, socialist or whoever. Its about what i think is fair.

BroomBurner

It was very peaceful today, and most of the protesters were keeping apart from the SF/SWP banners, so if anyone tries to say it wasn't just ordinary householders taking part, they're lying. Also, there were a lot of young families, kids and buggies.

I thought it was a good turn out, though I'm not the best at judging crowd size!

Lamper.sffc

BroomBurner wrote: »

It was very peaceful today, and most of the protesters were keeping apart from the SF/SWP banners, so if anyone tries to say it wasn't just ordinary householders taking part, they're lying. Also, there were a lot of young families, kids and buggies.

I thought it was a good turn out, though I'm not the best at judging crowd size!

.

Agree. Great day. Well organised and no trouble at all from what i experienced. People from all walks of life, some with allegiances to parties and plenty who didnt. Lots of families and people of different ages and backgrounds.

I thought it was hilarious how a few FG members started to wave and taunt the protesters from the convention centre, this stopped quite quickly as soon as they realised how many protesters where coming around the corner. They then pulled the blinds in a pathetic attempt to ignore the protest


http://www.thejournal.ie/fg-gardai-instructed-blinds-to-be-pulled-as-protests-gathered-outside-ard-fheis-402689-Mar2012/

Khannie

Was out walking last night and spotted a poster. Meeting in Joe Mays, Thursday the 18th (this Thursday) at 8pm. I will be there.

The Rooster

BroomBurner wrote: »

It was very peaceful today, and most of the protesters were keeping apart from the SF/SWP banners, so if anyone tries to say it wasn't just ordinary householders taking part, they're lying. Also, there were a lot of young families, kids and buggies.

I thought it was a good turn out, though I'm not the best at judging crowd size!

I'm sure all those who don't pay any tax were out in force.

They certainly would prefer increased income tax rather than property tax as income tax doesnt affect them.

And of course there would have been a fair few PAYE workers there too, who just haven't thought this through and don't realise that a relatively small charge (even when increased) on every house owner is a fairer system than lumping it all on the PAYE worker, who has already been hit time and time again.

As I've said before someone on €25,000 is already paying €1,000 more in income tax as a result of the recession.

Far better they be asked to pay €1,100 - and pensioners who have a house be asked to pay €100, and social welfare recipients who own their own house be asked to pay €100

rather than the PAYE worker being asked to €1,200 or whatever the figure will be, as make no mistake the only alternative to property tax is more income tax. Its time for everyone to pay their share, not just the PAYE worker.

Khannie

You're answering a post from 7 months ago from a closed account and dragging the thread off topic by doing so.

FYI: I am a PAYE worker in the higher tax bracket who is fundamentally opposed to a property tax and would have no problem paying further income tax (or perhaps funding the government in some other way that isn't a property tax) so you needn't lump everyone in the same boat with your gross generalisations about people who don't pay tax there. Cheers.

The Rooster

Khannie wrote: »

You're answering a post from 7 months ago from a closed account and dragging the thread off topic by doing so.

FYI: I am a PAYE worker in the higher tax bracket who is fundamentally opposed to a property tax and would have no problem paying further income tax (or perhaps funding the government in some other way that isn't a property tax) so you needn't lump everyone in the same boat with your gross generalisations about people who don't pay tax there. Cheers.

Doh! Sorry replied to the third last post. Hadnt realise your latest post was 6 months after the previous post. And I really didnt mean to make my generalisations gross!

Great that you're a North County Middle Income Earner like myself, as I am completely bemused that someone in our situation (let's pretend we're both on €50,000) - who is already paying €2,000 more in tax, and who didnt protest about those income tax increases, but is protesting about paying €100 property tax. And if successful in that protest, you'll save €100 in property tax and end up paying about €400 or €500 extra in income tax!

We'll just have to work even harder for less I suppose. Great incentive for the Irish workers.

I think its great that North County Dubliners are protesting against certain austerity measures, but would much prefer we sought to decrease incentives for not working, and protest against more taxes on enterprise and employment, which just put us in more of a mire. Property tax works in most developed societies.

Khannie

Yeah, I probably should have pointed out that I was bumping the thread. Apologies.

I take your point on it being an equitable distribution. I find it hard to agree to the idea that my home should be taxed though. For example if it were called a council funding tax or similar, I would probably have no major issue with it. I dislike the idea that the government thinks it can tax my home (especially since I already shelled out an absolutely ENORMOUS amount of tax on it not that long ago (more than 3/4 of a years wage at the time)).

I'm also surprised that most people dislike the tax intensely but just completely rolled over. I heard two lads on the train discussing it. "Was all set to not pay but the missus just told me to pay it". The other lad agreed - Didn't want to pay it, disliked the idea but just completely rolled over when faced with any level of resistance. Good GOD!

Lastly....I really don't care what other states are doing. I think we should make our own decisions about what's right for us (and the oul' Troika are handy for the government to be able to point the finger of blame at).

But anyway....I guess I wont see you there.

edit: lastly, lastly - I think we may actually be exempt. I will still protest it though.

The Rooster

Khannie wrote: »

I take your point on it being an equitable distribution. I find it hard to agree to the idea that my home should be taxed though. For example if it were called a council funding tax or similar, I would probably have no major issue with it. I dislike the idea that the government thinks it can tax my home (especially since I already shelled out an absolutely ENORMOUS amount of tax on it not that long ago (more than 3/4 of a years wage at the time)).

I'm also surprised that most people dislike the tax intensely but just completely rolled over. I heard two lads on the train discussing it. "Was all set to not pay but the missus just told me to pay it". The other lad agreed - Didn't want to pay it, disliked the idea but just completely rolled over when faced with any level of resistance. Good GOD!

Lastly....I really don't care what other states are doing. I think we should make our own decisions about what's right for us (and the oul' Troika are handy for the government to be able to point the finger of blame at).

But anyway....I guess I wont see you there.

edit: lastly, lastly - I think we may actually be exempt. I will still protest it though.

Indeed I won't be there. Although am tempted to see what message is being given.

Totally agree that we should make decisions that are best for us, but find it odd that so many countries (often more left leaning that us) do not find property taxes unfair, yet we're protesting about it.

I completely disagree with non-payment. Its breaking the law as introduced by a democratically voted government. We can't choose what laws we obey. Although absolutely agree with right to protest.

Again I'm bewildered by the stamp duty argument. For one there was never any indication whatsoever that stamp duty would prevent you paying property tax in the future. And then the economics equations - do you really think that if there was no such thing as stamp duty that you would have saved that money? Without stamp duty house prices would have been even dearer.

Khannie

The Rooster wrote: »

Again I'm bewildered by the stamp duty argument.

Of course you are. You're on the other side of the fence. At the current rate of property tax I paid hundreds of years worth of property tax in stamp duty less than 10 years ago.

On protesting: I am protesting, by not paying. That is the most vocal way to do it. I acknowledge that I will eventually have to pay that 100 euro, but I'm hoping that the tax will go away, so no further 100 euro's (haha...we all know where this one is going) wont be forthcoming. I'm not trying to steal money from the coffers. They'll get it eventually, it's unavoidable. I just hope that my temporary non-payment contributes in some way to its repeal.

I'll be interested to see what's put forward at the meeting myself. I'm hoping it's not all extremist stuff.

SeaSide

The Rooster wrote: »

Again I'm bewildered by the stamp duty argument. For one there was never any indication whatsoever that stamp duty would prevent you paying property tax in the future. And then the economics equations - do you really think that if there was no such thing as stamp duty that you would have saved that money? Without stamp duty house prices would have been even dearer.

What was the stamp duty for?

Kintarō Hattori

SeaSide wrote: »

What was the stamp duty for?

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning_a_home/buying_a_home/stamp_duty.html

SeaSide

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning_a_home/buying_a_home/stamp_duty.html

I know what stamp duty *is*

I paid it, what should I expect in return?






Post 666 - spooky

peteb2

Nothing. It was a tax by the government to make sure they got a cut from every angle.

Khannie

Khannie wrote: »

Was out walking last night and spotted a poster. Meeting in Joe Mays, Thursday the 18th (this Thursday) at 8pm. I will be there.

Just a reminder that this is tonight. I will be there.