Daft.ie, totally unrealistic asking prices

SligoLady

Snakeblood wrote: »

I'd be inclined to agree with this, with the caveat that I think EAs etc. *should* push their clients to drop price. If their job is to sell the house, then they are doing a disservice to their clients if they don't advance the notion.

I went to a few EAs to sell my apartment and most of them told me the place was worth about 200 grand, and only one suggested pushing me towards 150. I went with that guy as he seemed to not be completely deluded about the market.

I managed an estate agents for the past 4 years, up until a month ago and I can tell you that the majority of over-priced properties on the market are there because;
1.) The owners are completely unrealistic about their price but like Ben said if we didn't take them on we'd have nothing to sell, but we hope that by getting in realistic offers we might be able to persuade the owner into accepting.
2.) Banks are putting pressure onto people, particularly those with investment properties so the owners put the properties on the market to appease the banks somewhat but they don't really want to sell so they advertise them at high asking prices knowing there won't be any interest.
3.) A lot of properties put on the market from 2007 - 2009, missed the boom and owners and estate agents just leave them advertised for the sake of it. (usually at no cost to the owner, daft charge estate agents a fixed monthly fee regardless of amount of properties) It gives the agents listings variety to have more properties on it and as it doesn't cost the owners anything why would they stop advertising, 'just in case' someone decided to pay them twice the amount their property is worth.:P

None of the above are things I agree with as it means we have a hugely clogged up and stagnant market and it makes it even more off-putting (if that's possible) for people who actually want to buy because there's no definitive realistic prices out there anymore.:mad:

Balmed Out

SligoLady wrote: »

2.) Banks are putting pressure onto people, particularly those with investment properties so the owners put the properties on the market to appease the banks somewhat but they don't really want to sell so they advertise them at high asking prices knowing there won't be any interest.

Very good and true post. I know of several examples of the above statement.
Dont agree with the mentality though as surely the finances arent great if their being pressed and they'd be better off selling as prices arent going to be as high as they are now for some time. Im sure there are those with maturing investments or expecting an inheritance windfall who will be able to afford their investment properties eventually but this cant be all of them

dazberry

House #1 The house next door to me is for sale on myhome (not on daft but the same principles apply). I guess the first thing is that the people looking to sell it (former family home) didn't really know how much it was worth, so to try and put a value on it looked at similar houses in the area. All things being equal, setting the price similar to everything else that isn't selling is just going to add to the paralysis.

The estate agent then suggested a slightly higher price for reasons that I just can't fathom, even with 2 subsequent price drops has been for sale (and un-viewed) for the last year. I think the ppl would have been pretty flexible and where expecting market advice from the estate agent who just re-enforced a wrong expectation... (205k now 160k, needs extension knocked (pre-63) and rebuilt €€€)

House #2 I viewed a house recently, and the house has been for sale for a couple of years, and had been somewhat more expensive than other properties in the area. I formed the opinion that this was the estate agency, but after a price drop decided to view it and the agent freely admitted that they were pushing the guy to drop the price for the previous year and wouldn't budge. AFAIR 340k, now 190k (needs foundations underpinned €€€)

House #3 Viewed a fixer upper recently (another agency on myhome and not on daft), and as soon as I walked in the door got told they'd an offer of 125k rejected that was more then I felt it was worth. That turned me off the whole thing immediately, but was told 130k when I was leaving. EA rang me twice afterwards, the second time just after it went sale agreed on the web. Don't know if it is really sale agreed but just couldn't be bothered with that sort of thing. (Original asking 160k).

House #4 We put in a low ball over on one house on daft that was rejected, but the "unofficial" asking price then came back 12% lower then that advertised.

House #5 A house that has been for sale on and off for the last 3 years (2 different agents) I tried to arrange a viewing but no one would ring me back and could never get to talk to the person "looking after" the property. Recently the property has had another price drop, probably because no one wants to view it :rolleyes:. (Originally EA 320k 2? yrs ago, Second EA 220k, 199k now 175k).

So, I wouldn't be holding too much faith in asking prices atm.

D.

Pepe LeFrits

It may be Ballsbridge but this is absurd: http://www.daft.ie/searchrental.daft?id=1118691

€1600 for a 2 bed shoebox with the cheapest furniture they could find.

ronano

out of interest how much should that ballsbridge be going for you reckon?

Spiritofthekop

ronano wrote: »

out of interest how much should that ballsbridge be going for you reckon?

For that place....€1,000 tops.

Pepe LeFrits

hah perhaps they've seen this thread; it's dropped to €1500 now. Still at least €300 too high though. There are places in the same location for €1400 that are waaaay nicer (and don't appear to be getting taken, either).

Icepick

Spiritofthekop wrote: »

For that place....€1,000 tops.

this

There is a one bed apt with electric heating for 1,300 next to it. madness

The_Conductor

Icepick wrote: »

this

There is a one bed apt with electric heating for 1,300 next to it. madness

Ballsbridge is considered to be the 'embassy district' and a lot of the rentals in the area are for embassy staff, many of whom have their rent subvented or covered in its entirety by their equivalent to the Irish Department for Foreign Affairs. Rents in this district do not necessarily follow what would be considered the 'norm' for the Irish rental market- as there are factors wholly unique to the area at play........

Freiheit

Viewed a house last week,advertised on daft.ie,lovely house but what was more astonishing than the asking price was that the auctioneer seemed serious.:rolleyes: Told me that the owner would rent it out if the asking price was not met,well that he might take E15,000 lower (asking price E195k,2 bedroom and 70 years old) but nothing less,which in itself is about E50k more than what I believe this property to be worth. I had difficulty keeping a straight face but the auctioneer seemed totally oblivious to this insane price. Maybe they'l find someone who came down in the last money shower,but I doubt it. Doing a disservice to the owner by acquiescing in this delusion or else the auctioneer was stupid.

Freiheit

2 days on from making the offer (62K below the asking price) I haven't received so much as an acknowledgment from the auctioneer....horrendous service as well as loony asking prices.

BenEadir

Freiheit wrote: »

2 days on from making the offer (62K below the asking price) I haven't received so much as an acknowledgment from the auctioneer....horrendous service as well as loony asking prices.

Freiheit,

I've a couple of comments to make:-

1. The auctioneer should have at least acknowledged receipt of your offer as soon as he received it. Even if he knows his client won't consider it (for whatever reason) he could have responded with something like "thanks for submitting your offer. I will discuss it with my client and revert to you in due course". That is at least a professional response even if privately he thinks your offer is a waste of time because the owners instructions to him are clear (and possibly unrealistic) i.e. he won't accept anything less than €15k below the asking price.

2. If the current owner feels he can get a tenant to cover the remaining mortgage payments on the property and genuinely doesn't want to sell for less than €180k surely that's his prerogative? 99% of buyers may agree with your opinion of value for the house but as he's not a forced seller and is prepared to wait (possibly in vain) for the market to recover somewhat he's entitled to wait until an offer acceptable to him is received however unlikely that may be.

3. You presumably knew the asking price of the house before you viewed it and knew how old it was and it's general condition from the listing or brochure but went along for a viewing in the hope the guy would sell for 32% below what he stated he wants. Unrealistic expectations on both side there I'd say and both the seller and yourself wasting the auctioneers time but then again the auctioneer probably has so few transactions happening he/she has to explore every possible sale regardless of how unlikely it is to happen.

4. It's only been 2-3 days. Give the owner some time to digest the offer, get over the initial temptation to tell you to sling your hook and possibly revert with a counter offer which starts to get you closer to a figure you'll both agree to.

5. Don't waste any more time viewing properties which have asking prices 20% or more above what you'd be prepared to pay assuming the particulars on the listing/brochure are correct. Why not contact the Auctioneer directly tell him that on the assumption the particulars are correct you'd be prepared to conditionally offer €x. If the owner will agree to €x in principle then you'll do a viewing to verify the particulars and confirm your offer.

Just my tuppence worth.

Ben

Freiheit

That's a legitimate point of view Ben,I don't disagree with much of it in principle.

Just to add that it really depends on how badly someone needs to sell and that isn't obvious from the ad. Someone who owes inheritance tax or who can't pay the mortgage or whose marriage has ended would obvious be in greater need of a quick sale.

When I myself sold early this year I had to accept an offer 20% less than the asking price because I owed money and interest was accumulating. Without the debt I could have held on longer and probably gained a slightly,only slightly bigger fee I stress.

Had never before considered making an offer without a visit.

Auctioneer may have been insulted by my valuation,I don't know,doesn't seem like a nice guy.

BenEadir

Freiheit,

Thanks for taking my comments in the spirit in which they were made i.e. to be helpful.

Here's what I suggest you do.

1. Define your purchase criteria as narrowly as you can i.e. general location, type of property (detached, Semi detached or apartment), # of bedrooms, other essential criteria e,g, parking space, front and/or rear garden, car garage etc and most importantly of all what your maximum price range is.

2. Draft a standard email which presents your credentials in a simple but meaningful way i.e. "I am an actively looking to purchase a XXX property with XX bedrooms in YYY with a ZZZ & a BBB. I am fully financed to €X and can complete a transaction quickly"

3. When you see a property which meets or is similar to your criteria email the agent directly to say you are familiar with the house/apartment and are prepared to conditionally offer €x for it which if acceptable to the owner will be confirmed subject to a viewing. By doing this you aren't wasting your time organising and attending viewings where the seller has unrealistic expectations. Equally you mustn't be unrealistic in your offers (i.e. don't bother making an offer if you the price you're prepared to pay is more than 20% less than the asking price. It's just too much for any seller to swallow) or you'll quickly be filed in the "timewasters" section of the estate agents CRM system!!

4. If the Estate Agent responds and indicates the owner will accept your offer subject to you getting a deal done in X timeframe you've hit a home run and all you have to do is view the property, confirm your offer and get the deal done. If, as will likely happen a lot, the agent responds to say the owner won't accept your offer or tries to negotiate you can simply respond to confirm the offer you made is what the property is worth to you and is therefore your "best and final offer". It's important to use that term so there is no ambiguity and the Estate Agent understands you are firm on your offer which in turn should put him under a little pressure to squeeze his client a little harder to see if he really does want to reject your offer.

5. If your bid is unsuccessful you should (within 24 hours) email the agent the script you developed in #2 above. At this stage he will know you are serious, he'll know any offers you make are (in your opinion at least) fair and fully thought through i.e. not low ball offers to kick start some sort of horse trade process and he'll now have your criteria on file so next time he takes on a similar property which meets your criteria he'll be on the phone straight away to you.

6. You should systematically email each agent you sent your criteria to every two weeks to remind them you're still in the market, still fully funded and ready to buy and looking forward to hearing from them when they have something which meets your criteria.

Do all the above and as long as you are in fact fully funded (as least in principle in terms of a mortgage) and able to complete fairly quickly I'd be confident you'll get a deal agreed before Xmas.

Hope that helps.

Ben

Freiheit

Thanks Ben,I'll do just that.

Is it a case that auctioneers will loose face if they recommend a low valuation?...do sellers sometimes choose auctioneers on the basis of how high they value property?.

What are the odds now on getting my money back in a few years if I do want to move on? Is it possible if one buys in the right area that one might be able to break evens in a few years if for example I moved home to look after an ageing parent? something that might or might not happen?.

It's important for me not to overpay. Still no acknowledgment. Very unprofessional.

BenEadir

Freiheit wrote: »

Thanks Ben,I'll do just that.

Is it a case that auctioneers will loose face if they recommend a low valuation?...do sellers sometimes choose auctioneers on the basis of how high they value property?.

They won't just lose face Freiheit they'll lose the client!!! Clients tend to go with the Estate Agent who promises to sell their property for the highest price. It sounds reasonable but leads to unrealistic asking prices. Estate Agents have a choice. 1) Promise to sell the property for what they actually think it will sell for or 2) Promise to sell it for more than any other Estate Agent will promise.

If an Estate Agent goes with #1 he'll soon be out of business as no one signs up with him and with no listings he's out of business. If he goes with #2 he ends up with a pile of listings which are over priced and a bunch of clients with unrealistic expectations.

As a result of the above new listings tend to fall into category #2 and it takes either a number of weeks with no offers and little buyer interest or a couple of low ball offers to 'manage' the sellers expectations. The Estate Agent effectively relies on market participants (potential buyers doing viewings like you) to reduce the sellers expectations and get the price down to a realistic range. The problem is some sellers won't budge and it sounds like you found one of those with your recent offer.

Contact enough Estate Agents, put in enough realistic/fair offers, remain calm and confident, follow the process I outlined above and I'm sure you'll get a result in a reasonable timeframe.

Ben

Freiheit

Thanks Ben. When I sold my property early this year I actually chose the auctioneer who promised me the least,because they were being honest. I could have gone for someone who promised me a lot more,could they have yielded a better price? maybe marginally,maybe but their commission would have ben considerably higher and I don't like bull****. I opted for someone who didn't fill my head with expectations but who would still do their best. I was reasonably happy with the result. I quickly got 80% of the realistic (,but itself hugely deflated) asking price. I was probably in a minority though to choose that path.

Freiheit

3 days on from an offer and it still hasn't been acknowledged. I'm really pissed off with the firm. It may have been a third less than the asking price but to get no response at all is shocking. It may have been an insult but it deserved acknowledgment. Heads in the sand,I wonder have they sold much of late.

BenEadir

Freiheit wrote: »

3 days on from an offer and it still hasn't been acknowledged. I'm really pissed off with the firm. It may have been a third less than the asking price but to get no response at all is shocking. It may have been an insult but it deserved acknowledgment. Heads in the sand,I wonder have they sold much of late.

why not give them a week then name and shame?

Freiheit

By naming and shaming you mean naming them here?

BenEadir

Yes, why not? Telling the truth (provided it is the truth) isn't libel. Do be sure of your facts though I.e. that you emailed in the offer correctly etc

Snakeblood

BenEadir wrote: »

Yes, why not? Telling the truth (provided it is the truth) isn't libel. Do be sure of your facts though I.e. that you emailed in the offer correctly etc

I think Boards tends to be very iffy on naming and shaming since they got legal threats from a company over (thousands of) complaints posted here about an event said company promoted.

BenEadir

Well I guess the only thing to do then is shut up and not expose the poor service you are receiving. That's much better than telling the truth :rolleyes:

I personally doubt any Estate Agent is going to waste money they don't have employing a solicitor to threaten Boards.ie with with a libel action especially if the facts refute their case. Also, by making a fuss they'd only be drawing more attention to the way they treated Freiheit. Not smart.

If I was in Freiheit's shoes I'd list out the sequence of events with dates and time of phone calls, viewing and emails, name the company and see what happens. What's the worst that can happen? A mod delete's the post? Freiheit gets a slap on the wrist and/or a short ban? Let's not forget he's actually telling the truth in an open free speech forum.

It's not like he's promoting civil unrest or being blatantly racist is it?

Name and shame I say, name and shame :cool:

Ben

Freiheit

I sent an email to the auctioneer expressing my feeling that I expected an acknowledgment. He responded today and is now inviting offers E40,000 less than the advertised price.

BenEadir

BenEadir wrote: »

Estate Agents have a choice. 1) Promise to sell the property for what they actually think it will sell for or 2) Promise to sell it for more than any other Estate Agent will promise.

As a result of the above the Estate Agent effectively relies on market participants (potential buyers doing viewings like you) to reduce the sellers expectations and get the price down to a realistic range.

Now you're in the ball park ^^^^

You offered €133k, he's now back asking for €155k which is €10k more than you stated you'd be prepared to pay.

Two options spring to mind:-

1. Increase your offer to €138k and see what the response is. If he comes back saying he won't take less than €150k offer €145k as your 'best and final' offer and stand firm but don't let him use your offer to extract better offers from other buyers with. Tell him if €145k isn't acceptable you're ready to put an offer on another house so you need a firm yes/no within 24 hours.

2. Increase your offer to €143k and state it is absolutely your 'best and final' offer for the property. You're ready to put an offer on another house so you need a firm yes/no from his client within 24 hours. If he comes back looking for €150k or even €147k you can put €2k more on the deal if his client will close quickly and immediately remove the property from all marketing but you need an immediate response. No more negotiation.

Don't blame me if the above doesn't work out for you. It's just what I'd be inclined to do if I was in your shoes.

Best of luck.

Ben

Freiheit

Thanks Ben,I'll consider my options over the next week,don't want to appear over keen. I55K is still too much but closer to realism. I'll let you know how things develope. An engineer would be required naturally and if there was a problem with the roof it would be a deal breaker,unlikely but in a property 70 years old always possible.

Cunning Stunt

a difference of 46k between these two identical houses in same estate. I guess it's down to the landscaped garden??

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=601588

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=600761

Godge

Cunning Stunt wrote: »

a difference of 46k between these two identical houses in same estate. I guess it's down to the landscaped garden??

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=601588

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=600761

Even €99,000 looks a stretch these days for somewhere that far from Dublin. A local would be looking to build their own.

noxqs

Landscaped garden is nice but - for 46,000 euros you can buy a lot of professional landscaping. Materials and labor would probably be a good deal less than 10K.

Wishful thinking - may have worked in another era.

Freiheit

Hasn't worked Ben,my final offer is E15K less than the minimal that will be considered. I also imposed conditions such as electriticity being reconnected and trees being cut. I'll let them stew,that might change if there is no further offers in the weeks and months ahead. Arrogance and inflexibility by the auctioneer is still startling. I suppose a poor price would reflect badly on him as alluded to earlier?.