Daft.ie, totally unrealistic asking prices

COYW

Starting to look for a new rental place myself now outside the city. Currently living in D4 and am looking in the Leixlip/Maynooth area. The asking price for some of the properties per month in the Maynooth area is the same as my current rent here in D4. Bonkers!

BenEadir

Freiheit wrote: »

Hasn't worked Ben,my final offer is E15K less than the minimal that will be considered. I also imposed conditions such as electriticity being reconnected and trees being cut. I'll let them stew,that might change if there is no further offers in the weeks and months ahead. Arrogance and inflexibility by the auctioneer is still startling. I suppose a poor price would reflect badly on him as alluded to earlier?.

Sorry to hear that Freiheit. I do think the conditions you wanted to impose may have undermined you a little. The seller wants to flog the place not spend more money on it. Logically he should be able to work out the cost of cutting the trees and reconnecting the electric etc but emotionally it may have put him off and/or projected you as not being serious about your offer. People don't like having to accept a price below their minimum acceptable value. The idea of having to accept a crap price (in their view) and jump through hoops for the guy who's getting a steal of a price (in their view) will just rub them up the wrong way and give them an added excuse to turn you down.

If I was in your shoes I'd have offered €1k less than you did and made clear to the agent that your offer took into account you're going to have to spend €1k getting the trees cut and electric turned on again.

No guarantee you'd have received a different response from the seller but you'd have given him less reason to say no.

I'm a big fan of the KISS principle. Keep It Simple Stupid!!! (Don't take it personally!! )

Just my 2c worth.

Ben

Freiheit

Thanks Ben....You know I'm again questioning the role of auctioneers,many filling peoples head with figures and ultimately they can't create money if customers don't have it. Is it true that a site is being developed where people can sell by themselves?.

BenEadir

Freiheit wrote: »

Is it true that a site is being developed where people can sell by themselves?.

Yes, there are several websites which let you advertise and sell your own property without the need for an Estate Agent. The most popular is called www.daft.ie, you kight have heard of it

Take a few pictures, decide how you want to write up the content and pay for an advert on Daft. Simples!!

The lesser known websites dedicated to selling your own property are:-

http://www.sellityourself.ie
http://www.privateseller.ie
http://www.4salebyowner.ie

Q. So why doesn't everyone sell their own proerty and save the Estate Agents commisison?

A. For the following reasons:-

• Individual sellers typically don't have the skills, experience and/or confidence to manage the sale process themselves.
• The FSBO websites cost money up front for advertsing. Most Estate Agents will take on the sale on a no sale no fee basis.
• Local Estate Agents already have lists of buyers looking to buy in the area so can immediately market your property to the right people.
• Most FSBO websites are relatively unknown. What's the point of advertising your property on any of the above (with the exception of Daft.ie) when the reality is very few buyers are looking there. (You're an active buyer and I bet you've never searched the above sites to see if there is anything suitable on there for you?)
• Most sellers have unrealistic expectations so are happy to waste Estate Agents time and resources (as well as buyers time) rather than lay out some cash to sell it themselves when they know the likely offeres they'll get (market price) won't be acceptable to them.

Believe me, if the Estate Agent you are dealing with could get his client to accept your offer he would. There is no benefit to him whatsoever to tell his client they should hold out for another €15k unless he genuinely thinks it's achievable. If the property doesn't sell he earns €0!!!

Ben

MrThrifty

Some very good points in the last post... But, an additional point would be that unfortunately there are people out there who are only prepared to deal with an EA rather than the owner of a property.

I know of someone selling privately who got calls from some people for viewings but when they realised it was being sold privately they were suddenly no longer interested. It wasn't because of any awkwardness in dealing directly with the seller but simply that they assumed that there was something dodgy about the whole thing. Pure ignorance in my opinion but each to their own. I suspect it's more the older generation who might fall into this category.

BenEadir

MrThrifty wrote: »

unfortunately there are people out there who are only prepared to deal with an EA rather than the owner of a property.

Must admit that had never crossed my mind but I can see it being an issue for some people all right. I guess no one wants to tell someone directly that their home isn't worth what they think it's worth. Telling an intermediary like an EA is much easier than the vendor direct.

Ben

W123-80's

Couple of classics from sellityourself.ie;

http://www.sellityourself.ie/cgi-bin/sellityourself/id/8917/

http://www.sellityourself.ie/cgi-bin/sellityourself/id/6857/

http://www.sellityourself.ie/cgi-bin/sellityourself/id/9731/

http://www.sellityourself.ie/cgi-bin/sellityourself/id/8279/

http://www.sellityourself.ie/cgi-bin/sellityourself/id/8358/

Freiheit

I asked daft if I could place an ad. there earlier this year and was told it wasn't possible,that's because I'm not an estate agent isn't it?.

BenEadir

Freiheit wrote: »

I asked daft if I could place an ad. there earlier this year and was told it wasn't possible,that's because I'm not an estate agent isn't it?.

Freiheit, you know you might be right but I thought one of the big differences between Daft.ie and myhome.ie was that you had to be an estate agent to advertise on myhome.ie whereas anyone could advertise on daft.ie.

I know for certain that individuals can advertsie a rental property on Daft.ie but if individuals can't advertise the sale of property on Daft.ie you can use http://www.donedeal.ie/find/houses/for-sale/Ireland where there are 538 properties for sale and it only costs €3 to place your advert!!!

Ben

Zipppy

Was in with an estate agent the other day whom I've had dealing with over the years..she advisd that asking prices online and in estate agent windows are about 20% over priced and that she tried to get vendors to lower their prices but most refused...

MrThrifty

Zipppy wrote: »

Was in with an estate agent the other day whom I've had dealing with over the years..she advisd that asking prices online and in estate agent windows are about 20% over priced and that she tried to get vendors to lower their prices but most refused...

If this same estate agent actively supported the notion of a national register of selling prices then perhaps there would not be such a discrepancy between asking prices and selling prices.

What I find funny at the moment is that while they generally contributed in a negative way to the boom, they're now pretty much contributing to the bust in that they're in a race to the bottom. They are now prepared to encourage vendors to sell at whatever price is necessary in order to make a sale, get a property off their books and cash in on their commission.

zac8

Anyone can advertise a property for sale on daft.ie - it's €195 for a standard ad: http://www.daft.ie/advertise.daft.

Snakeblood

MrThrifty wrote: »

If this same estate agent actively supported the notion of a national register of selling prices then perhaps there would not be such a discrepancy between asking prices and selling prices.

What I find funny at the moment is that while they generally contributed in a negative way to the boom, they're now pretty much contributing to the bust in that they're in a race to the bottom. They are now prepared to encourage vendors to sell at whatever price is necessary in order to make a sale, get a property off their books and cash in on their commission.

The bust happened. This is prices adjusting to their natural level. Peoples incomes cannot afford to pay for the mortgage prices that are being asked.

jmayo

W123-80's wrote: »

Couple of classics from sellityourself.ie;

http://www.sellityourself.ie/cgi-bin/sellityourself/id/8917/

http://www.sellityourself.ie/cgi-bin/sellityourself/id/6857/

http://www.sellityourself.ie/cgi-bin/sellityourself/id/9731/

http://www.sellityourself.ie/cgi-bin/sellityourself/id/8279/

http://www.sellityourself.ie/cgi-bin/sellityourself/id/8358/

Beat me to it.
The properties on the front page of that web site goes to show that over inflated asking prices are not just the fault of unrealistic EAs, but the sellers who still think it is 2006 and their pad deserves to be treated differently.

I was involved in house sale, near Dublin last winter.
We went with EA that was realistic and dismissed the guy who reckoned we could ask for 15k more. Funny he always has loads of properties on his books.
As it was we knew that our asking price was 10% to 15% above what we would probably get.
Two reasons for having asking price higher than we knew current sales prices were.
One was all other similar properties in the area were asking same ball park figure.
We went in below most of them.
Secondly by being able to cut your asking price you are making the buyer feel they have achieved a bargain.
People always love feeling they have got one over someone else.

MrThrifty wrote: »

If this same estate agent actively supported the notion of a national register of selling prices then perhaps there would not be such a discrepancy between asking prices and selling prices.

What I find funny at the moment is that while they generally contributed in a negative way to the boom, they're now pretty much contributing to the bust in that they're in a race to the bottom.

What are you on about ?
If anything they are preventing the bottom being reached.

MrThrifty wrote: »

They are now prepared to encourage vendors to sell at whatever price is necessary in order to make a sale, get a property off their books and cash in on their commission.

Ehh so should they tell the vendors to keep demanding a price that the market i.e. buyers are unwilling and unable to pay ? :rolleyes:

Would you rather an EA who tells you to hang on and that you shouldn't accept a lower offer, even though in 6 months the achievable price will be 10-15% lower ?

I really do wonder if somepeople actually use their brains.

BenEadir

MrThrifty wrote: »

If this same estate agent actively supported the notion of a national register of selling prices then perhaps there would not be such a discrepancy between asking prices and selling prices.

We really do need a national register of selling prices. This will provide the transparency needed to take the guesswork out of pricing properties to actually sell. In a declining market you know you'll have to beat (or at best match) the price a comparable local property last sold for and visa versa when (could be years or sooner if we get a good dose of high inflation) we return to a market with increasing prices.

In the vacum created by a lack of transparent pricing you get the crazy situation we are now in where there is little overlap between what sellers are prepared to sell for and buyers are prepared to buy for. Equilibrium will eventually be reached, it just takes much longer without transparent pricing.

BTW, of course EA's are encouraging their clients to sell at whatever price the market will pay. Thats what supply and demand is fundamentally all about. By definition no EA (or anyone else for that matter in any walk of life) can sell something for more than the market will pay.

Ben

Snakeblood

BenEadir wrote: »

We really do need a national register of selling prices. This will provide the transparency needed to take the guesswork out of pricing properties to actually sell. In a declining market you know you'll have to beat (or at best match) the price a comparable local property last sold for and visa versa when (could be years or sooner if we get a good dose of high inflation) we return to a market with increasing prices.

In the vacum created by a lack of transparent pricing you get the crazy situation we are now in where there is little overlap between what sellers are prepared to sell for and buyers are prepared to buy for. Equilibrium will eventually be reached, it just takes much longer without transparent pricing.

BTW, of course EA's are encouraging their clients to sell at whatever price the market will pay. Thats what supply and demand is fundamentally all about. By definition no EA (or anyone else for that matter in any walk of life) can sell something for more than the market will pay.

Ben

The register should be coming in January, at this point. Hopefully.

MrThrifty

jmayo wrote: »

What are you on about ?
If anything they are preventing the bottom being reached.

Let me spell this one out... If everyone assumes that all property on the market is overpriced by 20% (or as was stated earlier, EA's tell everyone this is the case!), then buyers will automatically expect a 20% discount on the selling price. But there are properties out there that aren't overpriced. But again, the mentality out there is that people feel they're getting ripped off unless they get a 20% discount on these properties. This has the overall effect of driving prices down in my opinion, something that EA's are only too happy to be involved with as it's not a case of maximising commission any more, but just getting it in the first place.

jmayo wrote: »

Would you rather an EA who tells you to hang on and that you shouldn't accept a lower offer, even though in 6 months the achievable price will be 10-15% lower ?

That famous '10-15%' figure again. This is an average figure as far as I know and therefore does not apply across the board. Also, it is a prediction. However, because of the current fear out there, it will come true even if it was incorrect to begin with. If people started bandying about a likely drop of 30%, instead, then I believe this would come true too, at least in the residential property market.

jmayo wrote: »

I really do wonder if somepeople actually use their brains.

You and me both... :rolleyes:

jmayo

MrThrifty wrote: »

Let me spell this one out... If everyone assumes that all property on the market is overpriced by 20% (or as was stated earlier, EA's tell everyone this is the case!), then buyers will automatically expect a 20% discount on the selling price. But there are properties out there that aren't overpriced.

Partially true.
Still people can see if they are getting a good deal relative to other options.
Nobody expects a 20% dsicount on every price, some of us expect a 60% discount on some seen how outlandish the asking prices are.

Properties that aren't overpriced appear to be very rare if you ask me.

MrThrifty wrote: »

But again, the mentality out there is that people feel they're getting ripped off unless they get a 20% discount on these properties. This has the overall effect of driving prices down in my opinion,

Yeah it has nothing to do with fact that most people reckon property is over valued, unemployment is rising, banks are not lending, Euro is in trouble and nobody sure of the future.
Prices going down is all the fault of EAs. :rolleyes:

MrThrifty wrote: »

something that EA's are only too happy to be involved with as it's not a case of maximising commission any more, but just getting it in the first place.

That famous '10-15%' figure again. This is an average figure as far as I know and therefore does not apply across the board. Also, it is a prediction.

By the way that is only a ball park figure I gave.
I do believe prices may go down to mid 90s levels, which is before the actual upward prices and bubble ever started.
Thus I look at what a similar property would cost say 1995/1997 to see what I believe it may ultimately be worth.
Note I don't consider duplexes, apartments or hosues in the ar**hole of nowhere in this bracket.

Go on give me a reason for believing that prices are going to stop decreasing and maybe even increase.
Go on, just one, PLEASE.

MrThrifty wrote: »

However, because of the current fear out there, it will come true even if it was incorrect to begin with. If people started bandying about a likely drop of 30%, instead, then I believe this would come true too, at least in the residential property market.

It is all the fault of this negativity.
We should stop "talking down the prices" and lo and behold the market will ignore all the economic variables. :rolleyes:

BTW there is a reason for fear out there, it is called reality.

Snakeblood

MrThrifty wrote: »

. If people started bandying about a likely drop of 30%, instead, then I believe this would come true too, at least in the residential property market.

Great! Let's try to get it to a 45% drop from now then!

jordata

Lovely house, great views - but there seems to be very little work-top space in the kitchen. And 3 million euro, really?

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=482993

Freiheit

Can apartments ever be a good buy?. There's apartments near Limerick City centre,the Strand Apartments that could be a nice base for me but they are still asking for E200K on Daft.ie for a '2 bedroomer'. I'll try to upload.

www.thestrandlimerick.com/ This is the out of date brochure. I used to do a course at the Hotel next door,formerly the Hilton,now the Strand also. I've concluded that I just can't cope with the idea of walking out my back and looking into someone elses,so it's either a detached house or maybe an apartment?. Some apartments in Limerick are red light districts,this definitely isn't one but is there any guarantees for the future?. There's E1700 managment fees and am wondering what I get for this?. The asking price is E200k,I'd be interested if I got it for E80K,can anyone give feedback?.

No word from the house.

BenEadir

Freiheit wrote: »

Can apartments ever be a good buy?. There's apartments near Limerick City centre,the Strand Apartments that could be a nice base for me but they are still asking for E200K on Daft.ie for a '2 bedroomer'. I'll try to upload.

www.thestrandlimerick.com/ This is the out of date brochure. I used to do a course at the Hotel next door,formerly the Hilton,now the Strand also. I've concluded that I just can't cope with the idea of walking out my back and looking into someone elses,so it's either a detached house or maybe an apartment?. Some apartments in Limerick are red light districts,this definitely isn't one but is there any guarantees for the future?. There's E1700 managment fees and am wondering what I get for this?. The asking price is E200k,I'd be interested if I got it for E80K,can anyone give feedback?.

No word from the house.

Personally I'd stay well clear of Apartments if I could afford a house unless I was planning to retire and live in it (easier than maintaining a house) or it was fantastically located and therefore likely to always generate a decent rent should I want to move on.

Ben

stepbar

Freiheit wrote: »

Can apartments ever be a good buy?. There's apartments near Limerick City centre,the Strand Apartments that could be a nice base for me but they are still asking for E200K on Daft.ie for a '2 bedroomer'. I'll try to upload.

www.thestrandlimerick.com/ This is the out of date brochure. I used to do a course at the Hotel next door,formerly the Hilton,now the Strand also. I've concluded that I just can't cope with the idea of walking out my back and looking into someone elses,so it's either a detached house or maybe an apartment?. Some apartments in Limerick are red light districts,this definitely isn't one but is there any guarantees for the future?. There's E1700 managment fees and am wondering what I get for this?. The asking price is E200k,I'd be interested if I got it for E80K,can anyone give feedback?.

No word from the house.

There was an apt sold in the recent allsop auction for 35k - http://www.auction.co.uk/irish/LotDetails.asp?A=749&MP=84&ID=749000044&S=L&O=A and another sold for 88k http://www.auction.co.uk/irish/LotDetails.asp?A=749&MP=84&ID=749000026&S=L&O=A

Both 2 beds and both long leaseholds. 200k for a 2 bed apt in Limerick City is nuts.

lpjonesy

We are back to 1971 levels of house sale completions , only 14000 last year , if anyone is thinking of buying just wait a few years and get a 3 bed in Dublin for 80k => 400 a month mortgage

MrThrifty

lpjonesy wrote: »

We are back to 1971 levels of house sale completions , only 14000 last year , if anyone is thinking of buying just wait a few years and get a 3 bed in Dublin for 80k => 400 a month mortgage

Can't help but smile at the connection made between 1971 and the current house sale completions... I hear the weather that year was similar to 2011 too.

And as for a 400 quid a month mortgage... this would mean that every single person out there on the minimum wage (~1.5k a month) could comfortably afford to buy their own home. Sure why bother renting then - let's all just buy some property for ourselves!

Granted wages and housing rents here have scope to fall but...

I've been strongly resisting the urge to make a comparison between the current housing market and the stockmarket for obvious reasons (i.e. primarily becasue although there are similarities, there are also many differences between the two!), but chr1st, some of the nay-sayers out there should read up on this stuff...

desertcircus

MrThrifty wrote: »

lpjonesy wrote: »

We are back to 1971 levels of house sale completions , only 14000 last year , if anyone is thinking of buying just wait a few years and get a 3 bed in Dublin for 80k => 400 a month mortgage

Can't help but smile at the connection made between 1971 and the current house sale completions... I hear the weather that year was similar to 2011 too.

And as for a 400 quid a month mortgage... this would mean that every single person out there on the minimum wage (~1.5k a month) could comfortably afford to buy their own home. Sure why bother renting then - let's all just buy some property for ourselves!

Granted wages and housing rents here have scope to fall but...

I've been strongly resisting the urge to make a comparison between the current housing market and the stockmarket for obvious reasons (i.e. primarily becasue although there are similarities, there are also many differences between the two!), but chr1st, some of the nay-sayers out there should read up on this stuff...

Maybe not 80k, but there's no reason why half the houses in the country shouldn't be about three and a bit times the median wage, which is about 25-27k. If banks won't lend over 3x salary, that's how much houses will go for.

awec

The rent prices on Daft are equally ridiculous.

Is it the case that the people that rent out these apartments etc are trying to make up for the shortfall in earnings by simply hiking their rent prices?

1,000 euro a month for an apartment in the dublin 18 area. Scandalous.

BenEadir

awec wrote: »

Scandalous.

Don't understand why people use such emotive language here. Some poor bastard stuck with an unsaleable apartment he/she bought at the top of the market trying to get as much of the monthly mortgage covered by rent is hardly a scandal is it?? What term would you use to describe the child abuse carried out by paedophile priests? That's an actual scandal.

Looking for the max rent you can get is not even in the ball park of the term scandal. You might call it unrealistic or misguided but that's about it. If his asking rent is truly out of sync with the market he won't get a tenant and will either have to lower his asking rent or leave the apartment empty.

Why don't we just let market forces take care of this?

Ben

awec

BenEadir wrote: »

Don't understand why people use such emotive language here. Some poor bastard stuck with an unsaleable apartment he/she bought at the top of the market trying to get as much of the monthly mortgage covered by rent is hardly a scandal is it?? What term would you use to describe the child abuse carried out by paedophile priests? That's an actual scandal.

Looking for the max rent you can get is not even in the ball park of the term scandal. You might call it unrealistic or misguided but that's about it. If his asking rent is truly out of sync with the market he won't get a tenant and will either have to lower his asking rent or leave the apartment empty.

Why don't we just let market forces take care of this?

Ben

The problem is that it seems that all landlords have these ridiculous prices that are evidently vastly inflated. If they all hike prices then what choice do potential tenants have?

Maybe because they are renting out less properties these days they are trying to get as much loot for the ones they do rent.

I would happily pay 700-800 a month rent for a 1 bedroom apartment in Dublin 18. 1000 a month though, not a chance. Ridiculous prices and IMO it's time they got real.

evolving_doors

Klinsman wrote: »

speaking of crazy rents on Daft.ie check out this place http://www.daft.ie/searchrental.daft?id=1109905 in fairness it is a cracking place but mad money.

No Grand Piano even!!... that place is a Kip