Sheepdog?

melboy

Hi, I am new to farming and have about 40 sheep and I was thinking about
buying a sheepdog. Do u recommend I buy a trained adult dog or get a pup and try and train it myself, any advice would be greatly appreciated.

5live

melboy wrote: »

Hi, I am new to farming and have about 40 sheep and I was thinking about
buying a sheepdog. Do u recommend I buy a trained adult dog or get a pup and try and train it myself, any advice would be greatly appreciated.

A trained adult dog will set you back a nice bit of money, especially if it any good. If you have time and patience you can do a good job yourself with a good book or dvd or the following website or similar will get you started

http://www.herding-dog-training-border-collie-sheepdog-dvd.com/herding_sheepdog_stock_dog_training.htm

Or a bucket of ration will get sheep going where you want them fairly quickly too

johngalway

5live wrote: »

A trained adult dog will set you back a nice bit of money, especially if it any good. If you have time and patience you can do a good job yourself with a good book or dvd or the following website or similar will get you started

http://www.herding-dog-training-border-collie-sheepdog-dvd.com/herding_sheepdog_stock_dog_training.htm

Or a bucket of ration will get sheep going where you want them fairly quickly too

That's a fantastic DVD, his site and the sheep dog blog are good too. Derek Scrimgour also does a good DVD.

You'll need time and umpteen bottomless buckets of patience to train up a pup from the start. If you go looking for a young pup, the best tip I ever heard was look for the one in the litter that wants to please you, if the dog wants to make you happy he'll do anything for ya.

Trained dogs are big money now, €1,500 upwards. If you go that route you want to make very sure you see the dog working outside of a small field with quiet "trained" sheep. You'll also need to write down all of his commands, and it'll take time for him to get used to you.

If it doesn't work out, a good idea is to try to arrange a "trial" period of an agreed period of time. If the dog doesn't work out you can leave him back for a refund.

MOC1972

As above to buy they are not cheap and they may not work as you want when you get it home.
Get a pup from proven lines spend a couple of hundred.
Watch this www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oTBfqmIGLA this guy makes so much sence he was one of the best trainers in the uk old school simple
there are about 10 parts all easy to follow take your time and keep your cool when you think the dog is wrong its more than likely you

yog1

how much would you spend on a good working dog,
i'm not talking about the trial dog's that are world class,(well done to the donegal man who won the world trial's a few weeks ago) that are worth 3-5k, but a good working dog that will do what he's told and when he's told to do it

redzerologhlen

MOC1972 wrote: »

As above to buy they are not cheap and they may not work as you want when you get it home.
Get a pup from proven lines spend a couple of hundred.
Watch this www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oTBfqmIGLA this guy makes so much sence he was one of the best trainers in the uk old school simple
there are about 10 parts all easy to follow take your time and keep your cool when you think the dog is wrong its more than likely you

Thanks, Very good videos:)

yog1

yog1 wrote: »

how much would you spend on a good working dog,
i'm not talking about the trial dog's that are world class,(well done to the donegal man who won the world trial's a few weeks ago) that are worth 3-5k, but a good working dog that will do what he's told and when he's told to do it

does anyone have a guess at what would be a fair price for a working dog????

Cran

paid 1300 few years ago, worth every penny. looked at many between 700 and 1600 at the time, all I saw would have done a job, some over priced but all decent. would think might be a bit cheaper now maybe more around were scarce then...

yog1

Cran wrote: »

paid 1300 few years ago, worth every penny. looked at many between 700 and 1600 at the time, all I saw would have done a job, some over priced but all decent. would think might be a bit cheaper now maybe more around were scarce then...

don't know about them being any cheaper, how well on was the dog you bought, what age was it,
problem i see is most farmers want a dog but don't want to give the money for one, they only want a dog that will do them, they don't see it as a tool, that when working well will do more with sheep than any quad or man will ever do, and a cattle dog is worth its weight in gold,
i would like for some of these people who have "rough dog's" to see what a good dog will do, easier on sheep, less stress for the man and will get twice the work done in half the time,

Cran

yog1 wrote: »

don't know about them being any cheaper, how well on was the dog you bought, what age was it,
problem i see is most farmers want a dog but don't want to give the money for one, they only want a dog that will do them, they don't see it as a tool, that when working well will do more with sheep than any quad or man will ever do, and a cattle dog is worth its weight in gold,
i would like for some of these people who have "rough dog's" to see what a good dog will do, easier on sheep, less stress for the man and will get twice the work done in half the time,

he was 18 months and was well on, flanking, stopping and driving very well. He was a little keen (still is a bit) and lacks a bit power but loads of style and good eye. I haven't added anything to his training really since getting him probably brought him back a bit if anything.
couldn't survive in sheep without him he is my most valuable tool by a mile and to be honest probably don't appreciate him enough..

knotknowbody

yog1 wrote: »

problem i see is most farmers want a dog but don't want to give the money for one, they only want a dog that will do them, they don't see it as a tool, that when working well will do more with sheep than any quad or man will ever do, and a cattle dog is worth its weight in gold,
i would like for some of these people who have "rough dog's" to see what a good dog will do, easier on sheep, less stress for the man and will get twice the work done in half the time,

Agree 100% with this, have a couple of good dogs ourselves and they are invaluable, to be able to walk into a 60 acre plot of land and have all stock there in the pen in less than 10 minutes without any stress on man or beast is unreal.

Ours are fairly strong with the cattle but we have them that they hold back and don't go as hard on the sheep but like others have said they take a lot of patience to train and we find that they go back if not used regularly for the first 1-2 years.

reilig

Just a word of warning on getting a sheep dog. You need to ensure that you have enough work for it. Ideally, something for him to do every day. If not, the dog will become bored and depressed. Neighbours of ours had a dog shot when he went out rounding up another neighbours sheep because they were only working him once a week.

We've had 2 good working dogs over the last 25 years. The first was bought as a pup at a mart for £5. We hadn't a lot of sheep at the time, but for the first couple of months we brought the dog on the lead when bringing in the dairy cows for milking. We taught him to sit, com behind and go left and right. At 10 months, we could go to the gate and send him up for the cows on his own. When we did get into sheep in a bigger way, he was invaluable. We used to have to bring our sheep 3 miles to a dipping tank twice a year. One person could bring them with the dog. he would jump through the hedges to stand in open gateways and keep them on the straight and narrow.

He worked for 17 years and we sadly had to put him down.

The latest dog is around here 7 or 8 years. He is very keen to work. He can handle sheep perfectly, although he can be giddy at times. However we don't have many sheep now and he is dangerous to use with suckler cows. He was trained with the other dog and could possible be every bit as good if he just had enough work to do.

I wouldn't fancy buying a trained dog. I'd prefer to train a dog to the way that i want him to work IYKWIM.

funny man

To answer the first question, a young pup less than 4 months is ideal as they learn young and fast so if they are with you when you tend stock everyday they learn alot without actually doing anything. if you are not sure you can give 20 minutes most days to training a pup a trained dog is the best option.

Farm dogs are usually sold for 400-600 for started dogs up to 1200-1500 for the finished article (trial dogs are a different matter), to some people that is alot of money but compared to a toy dog that will do nothing a good dog is cheap. The notion that you need alot of work for a dog is untrue, you need a good house and a run or a lenght of chain, working dogs should not be loose if not trusted and all they require is to be with their master while checking stock for a few minutes in the day and a good walk or run.