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Veronica guerin

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2

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    #32
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    ascanbe wrote: »
    No one 'deserves' to be murdered, obviously; even someone who willingly works for the Sunday Independent.

    :D


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    #33
    General General
    Registered Users Posts: 1,900 ✭✭✭General General


    ascanbe wrote: »
    No one 'deserves' to be murdered, obviously; even someone who willingly works for the Sunday Independent.
    But it's legitimate to ponder on the motives and purpose of any 'investigative crime-reporter' and the owners and editors of the papers they work for, and to wonder if they simply exacerbate the situation; they're ultimately only there to sell papers.
    Should she not have done what she did? I suppose that was up to her.

    A step above "War Correspondent", but nevertheless...


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    #34
    washman3
    Registered Users Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭washman3


    Biggins wrote: »
    Paul Williams is more of a sensationalist journalist more so and loves himself.
    Other than that I agree with the rest.


    Cant speak for other parts of the country, but i live in Limerick and i can tell you for sure anything Williams reports from here is 100% true. if anything its toned down a bit. there is nothing sensationalist about it.
    the scum he reports on ARE capable of anything.


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    #35
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    Me again! wrote: »
    she died in 1996, why are you bringing this up. Surely you have something more current you could come up with?


    Are you trying to say that things which happened in the past have no relevance?

    Your history teacher must love you.


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    #36
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    Me again! wrote: »
    she died in 1996, why are you bringing this up. Surely you have something more current you could come up with?

    Turn on your TV and flick to BBC One

    And the OP came up with one of the better threads in AH


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    #37
    ascanbe
    Registered Users Posts: 3,089 ✭✭✭ascanbe


    General General wrote: »
    A step above "War Correspondent", but nevertheless...

    To be honest, i'd consider them several steps below, in most cases..
    Apart from in the case of 'embedded' war-correspondents; they're possibly a step above them, alright.


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    #38
    PK2008
    Registered Users Posts: 2,219 ✭✭✭PK2008


    They under estimated her courage, she under estimated their ruthlessness

    She is/was a hero


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    #39
    LETHAL LADY
    Registered Users Posts: 3,145 ✭✭✭LETHAL LADY


    I watched the film and I came away with the opinion that she was a bit wreckless when it came to her personal and families safety. However I do think that she may have been encouraged into taking unnecessary risks by her employers which was not very apparent in the film.

    Edit: I also followed true events as they unfolded slightly different of course to what was portrayed in the movie.


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    #40
    mickdw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,357 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Didnt killing her turn out to be the biggest mistake that the gangs ever made. Im open to correction but I think her murder led to the setting up of CAB and that really did the criminals severe damage, directly where it hurt - in the pocket.


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    #41
    washman3
    Registered Users Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭washman3


    Me again! wrote: »
    she died in 1996, why are you bringing this up. Surely you have something more current you could come up with?

    Yes 1996, all of 15 years ago.!! And it should be brought up every week for the next 15 years and rammed down the throats of the people that failed her. :mad:


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    #42
    TheMilkyPirate
    Registered Users Posts: 6,012 ✭✭✭TheMilkyPirate


    Me again! wrote: »
    she died in 1996, why are you bringing this up. Surely you have something more current you could come up with?

    You'd be a big hit in the history forum


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    #43
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,876 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    A true hero.

    Scum like Ahern should be :o at what they're milking from the state considering what she done.


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    #44
    EGAR
    Registered Users Posts: 2,874 ✭✭✭EGAR


    Standing up for what you believe in and exposing wrong doing doesn't seem to be an Irish thing at all recently. People are way to complacent and have an *ah **** it, let someone else do it* attitude, even now.


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    #45
    ascanbe
    Registered Users Posts: 3,089 ✭✭✭ascanbe


    mickdw wrote: »
    Didnt killing her turn out to be the biggest mistake that the gangs ever made. Im open to correction but I think her murder led to the setting up of CAB and that really did the criminals severe damage, directly where it hurt - in the pocket.

    Yep. Her murder apparantely instigated the introduction of CAB, alright.
    It's a pity, not to mention a wonder, that no-one in government has seen fit to introduce a similar scheme to deal with the white-collar criminals who have truly destroyed this country over the last number of years; or even to bother trying to truly look into/investigate it.
    That would be a true service to the state; in fact that's their duty.
    Do they fear being implicated? Possibly by association or, perhaps, something more concrete?


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    #46
    ascanbe
    Registered Users Posts: 3,089 ✭✭✭ascanbe


    PK2008 wrote: »
    They under estimated her courage, she under estimated their ruthlessness

    She is/was a hero

    Was that the tag-line for the movie?


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    #47
    washman3
    Registered Users Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭washman3


    mickdw wrote: »
    Didnt killing her turn out to be the biggest mistake that the gangs ever made. Im open to correction but I think her murder led to the setting up of CAB and that really did the criminals severe damage, directly where it hurt - in the pocket.


    Quite true indeed. CAB was set up as a result of her murder. Actually years previous to that Barry Galvin,one of its original founders,suggested it but was rubbished and embarrased by the one and only Padraig Flynn.
    CAB proved a huge blow to the gangs but over the years they've slowly found ways round it. the gangs now make a "settlement" with CAB and then continue on their evil ways. this settlement is factored into their profiteering so they are'nt really at a loss.
    This goes against the original concept of CAB (founding members have now retired) and its more or less a revenue collecting outfit.
    CAB needed to be ratcheted up to higher levels over the years but once again the political will was absent.
    Ironically CAB was also supposed to investigate white collar crime. would this explain the lax attitude of the political class.??


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    #48
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    She got herself killed
    Mabey She was a great journo but she was warned she didn't listen then they wasted her

    I get the op's ppint

    It's not right but if I was doing summit that got me warned by bad men to stop I'd stop


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    #49
    washman3
    Registered Users Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭washman3


    Tigger wrote: »
    She got herself killed
    Mabey She was a great journo but she was warned she didn't listen then they wasted her

    I get the op's ppint

    It's not right but if I was doing summit that got me warned by bad men to stop I'd stop

    Evil can only prevail while good people stand aside and do nothing.!

    In Irish terms that means "im alright Jack fcuk you"


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    #50
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    I think what went too far was the govts reaction to it an the crime bills, specifically regarding bail.


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    #51
    markc1184
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭markc1184


    How close to real life are the events throughout the film? I remember hearing about it all on the news when it happened, but the background of it went over my head at the time. I was only about 11/12 at the time so wouldn't have got too deep into it anyway.


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    #52
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    markc1184 wrote: »
    How close to real life are the events throughout the film?

    About as much as any film that's "based on a true story", I suppose.

    Not a fault of films though in my opinion - films like this are made as dramatised versions of real life stories & should never be taken too literally.


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    #53
    JimiTime
    Registered Users Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    washman3 wrote: »
    Evil can only prevail while good people stand aside and do nothing.!

    In Irish terms that means "im alright Jack fcuk you"

    QFT. Just watched the movie on BBC, and it was a frustrating watch. Just the realisation of such people existing (The likes of Gilligan btw, not Guerin:) ), its an unbearable thought.

    The unfortunate bit is the, how can I put it, 'feel good' bit at the end about what was achieved etc. The sad reality, is that we have a bigger gangland culture now than we ever had. Its also much more brutal. The terrifying thing about it all, is that the 'justice' system is completely inept at dealing with such culture. One can just try ones best to keep out of any such culture, and hope you don't become an innocent by-standard to it. I've seen incidences in Belfast, where the girlfriends of Paramilitary gangsters would go looking to provoke something, in the knowledge that the boyfriend will 'sort it out' if it gets nasty. Or some cocaine fuelled teenage 'enforcers' decide to beat up your son or brother for sh1ts and giggles. CAB etc may be considered successes, but lets not kid ourselves, things are worse than ever. I admire courage, and no doubt it took courage to do what Guerin did. I would always look to temper courage with wisdom, and one of wisdoms main components is foresight. I think the way forward is looking to change the justice system, so that while such gangland swine may never be truly eradicated, they will always feel like they must remain in the shadows. Due to the social and justice systems spectacular failure, not only do we have this gangland culture so prevalent, but we also have it bold and brazen.


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    #54
    Yakult
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 7,941 Mod ✭✭✭✭Yakult


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Nobody deserves what she got.. such a stupid question.

    Play with fire and you will get burned.

    In one sense I do admire her persistence but the fact that she was willing to risk her own families life for the sake of a story is pure thick to me.


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    #55
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    "Everyone in the Republic of Ireland remembers where they were when they heard Veronica Guerin was murdered on the Naas Road"

    Do we?
    Bit of a cringeful thing to put in a film

    But it's a film and it's there to stir up emotion which it does with the Sinead O'Connor song


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    #56
    Jess16
    Registered Users Posts: 1,176 ✭✭✭Jess16


    I think she died an honourable death and remained true to herself and her admirable passions


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    #57
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,876 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    mikemac wrote: »
    "Everyone in the Republic of Ireland remembers where they were when they heard Veronica Guerin was murdered on the Naas Road"

    Do we?

    I actually do.

    I've no recollection of where I was when I heard of the Israelis war on Gaza in 2008, the start of America's War of Terror, the attacks on America in Sept 2001, but I do remember where I was when I heard about Veronica's murder.

    F***ing b***ards. :mad:

    I also feel that the laws that were brought in by the government at the time were to save their own skin (they thought they were up next) than to deal with the real issues.

    Look at the state's reaction to junkie Katy French's death and your "ordinary" junkie, and it just goes to show how corrupt this state is. :mad:


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    #58
    CoolHat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 569 ✭✭✭CoolHat


    baraca wrote: »
    This could be a touchy subject for some but here goes.

    Do you think she went too far? As in do you think she should have stopped what she was doing and let it be.

    After her family was threatened I know a few people who said that should have been it, She knew who she was dealing with and what they were capable of doing but kept on going. Some people call it bravery, Some stupidity.

    We could have a debate as to whats bravery or naivety. But she got threatened she still pushed forward. She continued.
    Heinsite is a brilliant thing. With it we wouldnt make the majority of our choices....
    She pushed on. She was brave. And if anyone else thinks other wise, put yourself in her shoes. Would you be a coward when the first threat happened? or would you continue on?


    Logic wins again.


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    #59
    charlemont
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭charlemont


    Veronica was a good and determined person but very naive when it came to her dealings with those lads, I think she felt that due to her dealings with Traynor she would be OK but those dealings put enormous pressure on Traynors underworld reputation and created rifts with the "more powerful in the underworld by the day" Gilligan, So something had to give and unfortunately for Veronica, It was her life..

    Im not 100% on Gilligans involvement in her death as due to the assault charge pending it created a perfect opportunity to have him set up maybe by Traynor but Iv no doubt about Meehans guilt.

    To be honest at the end of the day this all happened in the mid 90's and there was still a wealth of stories that needed to be broke such as child abuse, church abuse and political corruption, Heroin was still a big problem in Dublin and that contrasts with the fact that the Gilligan Gang, Although scum they are, Were only mainly involved in so far as I remember in Cannabis dealing. And no one can deny since her murder the underworld has become more and more dangerous.


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    #60
    Sooopie
    Registered Users Posts: 657 ✭✭✭Sooopie


    I must be the only one who doesn't think she's a hero, bad that she was killed alright, however, I think her work was more ego driven then anything else.


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    #61
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    She was shot? I'm sure Ive seen her in films since then.


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