Growing your own firewood

crackcrack30

Hi guys , great thread.

Im in the munster area, anyone use a service company (e.g sws) that gave advise as to ratio and suitablity of ground v tree species when informed that the plantation would be used for self use and copice?

Also i have a poled ESB line going thru my earmarked 2-3 acre plot:rolleyes: . what width of a path do i have to leave under the line for access ect.

Finally I have approx 1 acre of dense rush on heavy ground, whats the best approach to clearing these? what do the forest service companys do with this type of dense rush prior to planting??..............

All advice info appreciated................cc30

slowburner

crackcrack30 wrote: »

Hi guys , great thread.

Im in the munster area, anyone use a service company (e.g sws) that gave advise as to ratio and suitablity of ground v tree species when informed that the plantation would be used for self use and copice?

Also i have a poled ESB line going thru my earmarked 2-3 acre plot:rolleyes: . what width of a path do i have to leave under the line for access ect.

Finally I have approx 1 acre of dense rush on heavy ground, whats the best approach to clearing these? what do the forest service companys do with this type of dense rush prior to planting??..............

All advice info appreciated................cc30

They drain rushy areas as far as I know - it is a contentious issue for some, including me :pac: It might be worth your while to post this in the Farming and Forestry forum as well.

reilig

crackcrack30 wrote: »

Finally I have approx 1 acre of dense rush on heavy ground, whats the best approach to clearing these? what do the forest service companys do with this type of dense rush prior to planting??..............

All advice info appreciated................cc30

To plant trees in such an area, you will usually have to mound the ground. This involves digging a small trench about every 5 meters and using the clay from the trenches to make little mounds. You then plant the trees on top of the mounds and the drains help to drain the area.

greenfingers89

crackcrack30 wrote: »

Im in the munster area, anyone use a service company (e.g sws) that gave advise as to ratio and suitablity of ground v tree species when informed that the plantation would be used for self use and copice?

what width of a path do i have to leave under the line for access ect.

what do the forest service companys do with this type of dense rush prior to planting??.

i would just ring one of the companies, dont get bogged down in advice here, the companies will go out to you for free, sws, green belt, forestry services ltd, fel.....they are all in business a long time and wouldnt have lasted if they wern't at least half decent.

more than likely you'll have to leave a 20m corridor for the esb but if the voltage is higher than your normal powerlines you might have to leave 61m which would mean forget about planting an area that small. the minimum plantation area you can have for softwoods is 1 hectare and for hardwoods is .25 hectare, however the esb line will split your site into different plots therefore you need to take into account the minimum plot areas eligible for grant aid, softwoods must be .25 hectare and hardwoods .1 hectare.

the rushy ground will be shallow drained as mentioned above....iv only ever carried out mounding using a spacing of either 12m or 8m, i would think 5m spacing is very very rare, not saying it doesnt happen though

again id suggest you call out someone from a company as they will tell you this information and whatever else your wondering

MOSSAD

greenfingers89 wrote: »

i
the rushy ground will be shallow drained as mentioned above....iv only ever carried out mounding using a spacing of either 12m or 8m, i would think 5m spacing is very very rare, not saying it doesnt happen though

Any thoughts on "inverted mounding" or has that been discontinued?;)

greenfingers89

MOSSAD wrote: »

Any thoughts on "inverted mounding" or has that been discontinued?;)

f***ing bird baths! thats all inverted mounding is good for...i know it looks way better than lines of drains but jesus it can be an absolute disaster on most sites

MOSSAD

greenfingers89 wrote: »

f***ing bird baths! thats all inverted mounding is good for...i know it looks way better than lines of drains but jesus it can be an absolute disaster on most sites

posted on it some months back back with pics-no comments though-guess people were running scared back then:pac:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=72805083

greenfingers89

looks like your pics reinforce the bird bath theory! most inspectors as far as i know are against inverted now because, as i said, there are some serious disasters out there!

MOSSAD

greenfingers89 wrote: »

looks like your pics reinforce the bird bath theory! most inspectors as far as i know are against inverted now because, as i said, there are some serious disasters out there!

Certainly does-wonder if the IFA will get behind farmers who have had this ground preparation technique forced upon them and get the Forest Service to pay for the proper drainage of these sites?

blue5000

crackcrack30 wrote: »

Hi guys , great thread.

Im in the munster area, anyone use a service company (e.g sws) that gave advise as to ratio and suitablity of ground v tree species when informed that the plantation would be used for self use and copice?

Also i have a poled ESB line going thru my earmarked 2-3 acre plot:rolleyes: . what width of a path do i have to leave under the line for access ect.

Finally I have approx 1 acre of dense rush on heavy ground, whats the best approach to clearing these? what do the forest service companys do with this type of dense rush prior to planting??..............

All advice info appreciated................cc30

Hi crackcrack, before I planted mine which had rushes on it I got in a few horses to graze it off, the big advantage was that the digger driver could see what he was doing when he mounded it. This helps to keep the mounds in straight lines.

What species are you thinking of going for?

temujinhayes

hi crackcrack, the advice from blue5000 to graze it down tight is a good idea. had a similar area which i planted two years ago. i planted alder on 80% interspersed with ash on the 'drier' patches. alder is flying it and is nursing the ash along nicely. ash on its own in those conditions would struggle.

johngalway

I read the info already somewhere but cannot seem to find it again.

If a person was feeding say two domestic stoves, and wanted to plant ash. How much ash would need to be planted? Would the best policy be to plant better than a years supply each year so that much mature timber would be ready in 12-15 years, then coppice, rather than plant X amount acres all at once which would lead to a glut then nothing for years? (besides some thinnings I think?). These would be stoves in non centrally heated houses.

crackcrack30

ITS said' that 2.5 acres is plenty adequate to supply/heat the average house (whats average nowadays:rolleyes:?), cutting 1/2 acre on a five year rotation, 2 stoves might test this...... ? .
What i plan to do is not cut it all on the first coppice but maybe divide it over 2/3 years to avoid the inital glut of firewood over lets say years 10/11 & 12 all going well and then after a 4 year period slectively copice the stronger areas to let the coppice mature,
I'd say self management and personal needs will dictate the rate of cutting the important thing now is to get it planted....

Even if there is a glut of wood once under cover it will last for years possibly giving you a chance to skip a years cutting now and again.....

fodda

crackcrack30 wrote: »

ITS said' that 2.5 acres is plenty adequate to supply/heat the average house (whats average nowadays:rolleyes:?), cutting 1/2 acre on a five year rotation, 2 stoves might test this...... ? .
What i plan to do is not cut it all on the first coppice but maybe divide it over 2/3 years to avoid the inital glut of firewood over lets say years 10/11 & 12 all going well and then after a 4 year period slectively copice the stronger areas to let the coppice mature,
I'd say self management and personal needs will dictate the rate of cutting the important thing now is to get it planted....

Even if there is a glut of wood once under cover it will last for years possibly giving you a chance to skip a years cutting now and again.....

But for coppicing for firewood you do not want the timber to be over 3"-4" in diameter otherwise it will require further processing (splitting)(extra work)

Boardnashea

fodda wrote: »

But for coppicing for firewood you do not want the timber to be over 3"-4" in diameter otherwise it will require further processing (splitting)(extra work)

Where does the best return happen; between cutting at 3" - 4" as above or leaving it til it's 8" - 10" and doing a bit of splitting. I'm not growing enough to be worried by this extra work. The proportion of trimmings will be much greater at the smaller diameters won't it?

If I'm going to be cutting at 4" can I reduce the spacing significantly when planting?

temujinhayes

If I'm going to be cutting at 4" can I reduce the spacing significantly when planting?[/QUOTE]

don't reduce the planting density. the main thing about high planting density is to create shade quickly in order to shade out grass. plant at least 3300 plants per ha. cutting on a 5/6/7 year cycle will produce decent size poles, some will be above average in size, others smaller. the other thing is, in order to produce best coppice stools you should cut all your plants down immediately after planting. sounds severe but this way the plant throws up multiple stems straight away and the plant starts developing a good root plate.

Oldtree

You don’t need felling licence if trees under 10 years old and there is no issue with diameter on trees under 10 years of age, but if you needed a felling licence and are caught without one then you will be fined.

Layering a hedgerow does not require a felling licence

I have a felling licence to clear non-native sycamore from a semi natural ash/hazel woodland. I am leaving the stumps to coppice in future to complement an old coppice which has ash standards which I intend to rejuvinate.

My Poplar and Willow slips early leaves were eaten by slugs, all the willow failed and 50% of the poplar which took a few years longer to establish. To circumvent this I planted Poplar Slips on top of mound of mud and not a single one failed. I intend to slit plant them this year at 2m gaps, looking more for log wood over (under) a ten year period. The poplar is one i collected in the eighties from a breeding programme and is a serious grower and appears to be disease free. The smell from the leaves is very heady in the spring and I would be lieing if I said I didn't love it.

This year I am going to plant willow slips on the mound for planting out next year. An Achill goat willow, also a serious grower and disease free and 2 other willows that have length but thin stems for color (yellow and purple).

I will be collecting Ash seedlings from the woodland to grow on to form standards in the fields of poplar and willow.

I may also plant some alder in damper areas along with willow as it seems to do very well here, and can take water around its roots for up to 6 months of the year.

There are a couple of Chestnut in the wood but they are prone to decay in our damp climate so i wont be planting any of them for firewood.

Birch bark skin can be collected and used as a firelighter as there is a resin in it. If caught out in the wilds and you need to start a fire birch bark skin and small birch twigs from up off the ground will get a fire going quickly.

Leylandii sprys dried can also be used as a fire lighter if well dried, but be warned it goes up quick with a bang!!! Llandii can grow up to 1m in all directions per year (3 ft) so not the fastest wood to grow for firewood. It makes great posts if you can get straight non knotty lengths as its waterproof.

Eucalyptus got hammered here last year so I will not be planting any.

Spruce acidifies the soil, so will not be planting any of them either.

My advice is always to look at what is growing well around you and locally before planting.

I have found that a Polytunnel gets temps of above 120 degrees in the summer (except the last one) so may be useful for a quick dry if needed

Split wood as early as possible in the year to expose more wood surface to be dried and get it under cover by the end of july. If a hot may/june split wood should be dry from last year. Don’t tightly stack if not fully dry

A simple dryer is to put the wood under a tarp and up off the ground on a pallet, and in summer leave sides open for air flow. I don’t think trying to dry indoors is a good idea in Ireland it seems to just sit there.

I have a pto splitter as a few years of axing wrecked my wrists and back, get all the splitting done in 1 day now as against three and it can do the knottiest wood easily, body and time saved for a small output.

Oldtree

I suppose it does depend on where you cut the tree. If you are only removing shoots/branches from a preformed stool that is over ten years of age then you would not technically be felling, but if you cut the main stem of the stool (which itself is over ten years of age) then you are.

From the forestry act 1946:

"the expression “cut down” means, in relation to a tree, cut through the trunk of the tree at a height of less than six feet from the ground surface"

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1946/en/act/pub/0013/sec0035.html#sec35

I think anything over 6 feet is pollarding.

I explained to the inspector what I am doing and the licence is a general one for the whole area for 5 years, replanting due to the presence of the woodland is stated as natural regeneration although they are also aware of my other planting intentions. I intend to renew the licence on 5 year basis to ensure there is no problem (it is a very easy process with helpful staff and inspectors. Have a word with your local inspector to find out the best avenue for you. Find out who they are and phone nos from here:

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/forestservice/treefelling/

The older sycamore (say 70 years old) would be felled under a felling licence and allowed to regrow from the unpoisioned stump. The regrowth as long as it is under 10 years old when coppiced should be fine and not require a licence. I am not cutting down all sycamore only those encroaching into the woodland and am retaining the mature ones that are along the woodland edge. Sycamore apart from being a non-native is a weed in that it spreads very quickly by seed. It also opens its large leaves very early and supresses other trees seeds as well as native flora in the spring.

Rejuvinating the old coppice does not require a licence as it is hazel.

Coppicing (I intend to the initial cut to be at about 5-6 inches above ground level or so) willow and poplar on a rotation of under ten years does not require a licence either. My usage of the word coppicing relates to some chestnut coppices I saw in the UK, not the stool at about 2 foot type used for withies.

TomOnBoard

If I'm going to be cutting at 4" can I reduce the spacing significantly when planting?[/QUOTE]

I would have thought so, as you will be coppicing earlier. Canopy cover ASAP is crucial for weed supression so if you intend to harvest earlier, I would go for a greater planting density.

frankie2shoes

anybody got a rough idea how much ash saplings are and where I might get them. hope to plant up about a half acre.........

greenfingers89

frankie2shoes wrote: »

anybody got a rough idea how much ash saplings are and where I might get them. hope to plant up about a half acre.........

http://www.nonesohardy.ie/brochure/fraxinus-excelsior-ash.php

jeffwode

Hi Oldtree

You said eucalyptus got hammered here last year. I'm not very surprised to hear that but have you any more detail, like which varieties, what age, what kind of site and whereabouts in the country?

I was thinking of planting some eucs myself, but I'm wary of the hardiness issue. Having said that, every eucalypt I know in gardens etc, survived the big freeze without any problems. I'd love to get some hard facts on how it fared around the country generally. Thanks.

slowburner

If it's of any help - I can't distinguish the different types of Eucalyptus, but any I have seen in south Wicklow survived the harsh winters here. Too many other non-native plants died hereabouts to mention, but to give you an idea of how severe it was - 99% of the furze/gorse around my little valley was killed above ground.

treefan

Shouldnt this thread be moved to the forestry sub-forum?

goat2

so far this winter, i have only bought three bags of slack, i planted about ten trees about sixteen yrs ago, i just cut limbs off the trees and use these for my fire, they have paid me back handsomely, i have been cutting limbs with the last five yrs for my wood burning stove, am very happy with my yield. oil is gone too dear to have on as mych as i used to have it on,

10-10-20

Does anybody know where I might get a few willow slips which would coppice well for fuel? I've tried some of the online shops, but they are out of stock.
Am I too late in the season to plant?

yourpics

Slightly off topic, but still related,

Does anyone know what cut a shop gets from the bags of kindling they sell priced at either €2.50 or €3

Would they get any cut or are they just stocking them to attract customers to buy other items?

reilig

yourpics wrote: »

Slightly off topic, but still related,

Does anyone know what cut a shop gets from the bags of kindling they sell priced at either €2.50 or €3

Would they get any cut or are they just stocking them to attract customers to buy other items?

A neighbour is a joiner and his young fellow bags the waste timber for kindling and sells them to 3 local shops for €1.50 per bag.

St. Leibowitz

10-10-20 wrote: »

Does anybody know where I might get a few willow slips which would coppice well for fuel? I've tried some of the online shops, but they are out of stock.
Am I too late in the season to plant?

I got some Salix Smithiana bareroots from futureforests.net a few weeks ago. Still time to plant, although getting towards the end of the season, although not sure how important that is with willow.

frankie2shoes

after reading this thread, am I right in my deduction that ash is the best allround tree for firewood both from a time to grow and quality of fire
wood aspect?
Also, as I have only one acre and use the firewood simply for my woodburning stove and not to heat my house, would about 4-500 trees planted over half an acre be sufficient for my needs?
I would normally buy 2 one ton bags of logs from a local farmer which does me the winter. 500 trees seems like a lot!
cheers