Growing your own firewood

yourpics

reilig wrote: »

A neighbour is a joiner and his young fellow bags the waste timber for kindling and sells them to 3 local shops for €1.50 per bag.

Cheers Reilig, what price are those shops selling it back out at?

frankie2shoes

ok. just got about .7 of my acre cleared and am about to plant a mix of 100 ash, willow and birch trees for firewood. choose this mix cos the ash trees are not the prettiest and my house overlooks the new wood. will try and post some pics to show the progress.

Oldtree

Saw a plantation of young ash on the way to castlebar yesterday and I find them to be very pleasing to the eye, although this looked like a well managed plantation.

slowburner

I agree that an Ash plantation is pleasing to the eye.
There are a couple around me that I really envy.

johngalway

Some mature ash in the wood next door to my farm and I have to say I think they look very well.

Oldtree

Ash is know as a "widow maker" in my line as it is very prone to split at weak forks.

I found a couple of ash growing in beech leaf litter and so didnt have to dig them out they came up very easily roots and all, for standards in the poplar/willow coppice I am planting up.

frankie2shoes

Guess I've run into the Ash appreciation society here
I do like ash trees, just find the bark and leaves of the birch tree to be easier on the eye.

slowburner

Birches are very nice too

Oldtree

The attached is my favorite ash growing on a limestone pavement (over 100 years old).

slowburner

Is that in the Burren and how was it dated?

Oldtree

No its in lovely south Mayo, Cong area. The outcropping of limestone in Mayo is well known to be an extention of the burren but does not seem to get the same recognition or protection.

See this thread for a full explaination as to the ageing of the tree:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056525292

slowburner

Your post over there is fabulous. I'm having a bit of difficulty understanding which is the scar.

Oldtree

There are a number of scars on twigs. The attached photo shows where the apical bud annual scar is on the twig. It is at the bottom of the last years black buds and completely circles the twig, no buds on previous years growth.

Pop quiz: see if you can work out what the other scars on the twig are.

slowburner

I'm guessing that the damage to the other twigs is from goats?

Am I right so, if I say that there are four apical bud scars in total?
How many years old is the twig from the first apical bud scar to the newest bud?
Sorry for being thick.

Oldtree

very good goats.... bastards. No damage on this twig from goats.

Good question you have keen eyes. I had intended the example to show two apical (top) bud scars, but it does look like there are more, I do not have the twig anymore so cannot confirm absolutely, but as the buds do not tend to persist more than 1 year I would suggest that there are only 2 apical scars on this twig and that growth was seriouslty suppressed at the start of last year. 2 tiny buds and 2 tiny leaf scars can be seen but these scars do not appear to circle the twig.

other scars are:

on the first segment on the right under the black buds is last years leaf scar.
on the second segment in the middle are the bud scar (no branch formed) and leaf scar.
on the third segment on the left the cambium can be seen rolling out to seal over a wound. A branch formed here from a bud and then got broken off.

slowburner

Sorry mods if this is going off topic but i can't think of where else to post the question.
Oldtree, would you hazard a guess at the age of this tree. I think it's a Mountain Ash/Rowan.

Oldtree

I really would be guessing. If you could count back a number of apical bud scars and extrapolate then you would get a much more accurate idea. It also helps to have some younger trees in the vacinity to make comparisons to for the younger growth periods.

The growth from last year on this tree seems variable and goes from not very much to the length in the twig below.

What I can say is that it is an open grown tree in the middle of what looks like a ploughed field. When there is root and basal damage from ploughing or animals, the tree can respond by shooting lots of little shoots alll over the tree, from adventitious buds (dormant buds). This would then perhaps give the tree the appearance of being older than it is. There may also be dieback and disease present due to this damage.

30-60 years would be my guess but without actually looking closely at the tree its very difficult to tell from a photo.

slowburner

I had a notion that it was a very old tree.
Every inch of every field in this area has been cleared for tillage, including many boundaries and hedgerows.
It strikes me as peculiar that this one was left alone, and I wondered might it have been left to stand because there was some mythology associated with it.

Oldtree

It could well be older than I think, it is a common habit to give a tree an older age than it is so I always err on the side of caution.

If it is an old tree it is unfortunate that the field has been reclaimed around it. If the soil has been ploughed right up to the base of the tree than as trees have a feeder root system that extends out to the drip line of the crown, that root system has now been damaged on this tree.

If it is an old tree it may have some mythology associated with it, but the fairy trees are usually hawthorn.

kippy

Sorry, this is an old thread but related to something I am hoping to do in the next few months.
Planning on planting about 2-3 acres for firewood down the line and right now am planning on doing this myself after buying the bareroots from a supplier in cork.
Looking at a mix of Ash, Beech and Willow (the land is mixed, generally pretty good, some areas with poor enough drainage, some with very good)

Does anyone have any good guidance on what type of ground these like and the minimum separation required between the various plants?
Also, anyone have any tips (a few years down the line) about what they should have planted/done/laid out than what they actually did?

Decided not to go down the grants root, so we're pretty free to plant as we chose.

Oldtree

Just recently started so minimum actual experience.

I started with wanting to do a ten year or so rotation. My first planting last year was 120 or so rooted poplar cuttings. I also planted a few ash to act later as standards.

This year I have about 100 rooted willow cuttings (3 different types) and about 100 local ash seedlings to go in. I also intend to put 50 or so 2 foot willow cuttings (as suggested by a poster hear last year) directly in the site to see how they come on as about 100 of my willow cuttings did not do well this year (all in a block and cant figure out why) and I am going to leave them for another year to see how they get on. I will also be test planting a few alder seedlings on a damp patch to see how they get on.

Why beech? I would have thought that would not grow fast enough for firewood.

kippy

Oldtree wrote: »

Just recently started so minimum actual experience.

I started with wanting to do a ten year or so rotation. My first planting last year was 120 or so rooted poplar cuttings. I also planted a few ash to act later as standards.

This year I have about 100 rooted willow cuttings (3 different types) and about 100 local ash seedlings to go in. I also intend to put 50 or so 2 foot willow cuttings (as suggested by a poster hear last year) directly in the site to see how they come on as about 100 of my willow cuttings did not do well this year (all in a block and cant figure out why) and I am going to leave them for another year to see how they get on. I will also be test planting a few alder seedlings on a damp patch to see how they get on.

Why beech? I would have thought that would not grow fast enough for firewood.

The planting types are subject to change but I wanted to plant some beech as there is some pretty wet areas of land and beech apparently can grow pretty well in those areas. It does Coppice apparently and down the line Beech is a nice wood if it never makes it near the fire.

Oldtree

ash is a far superior wood to burn and faster grower than beech. I'm not sure I'd plant beech in a wet spot, more inclined to do willow or alder and even stick in a few ash.

Perhaps beech as standards might work if you are intent on having some beech.

ford2600

Your grandchildren will be grand and warm with beech!;)
If for a stove, willow is super in wet land. Grows back very vigoursly, drys easily and nice enough to handle.
Ash is quick growing to and super heat.
Alder grows quick, unusual tree in how it burns though, wouldn't be my pick. The insects and the like love them though, good tree for nature and all that.
2-3 acres is a big space, throw in a small percentage of other native trees;
it'll make it a lovely place to work when you are thinning it for firewood.
Space the ash at 1.8 or 2m and thin so you get some decent trees, the butts of which could make hurleys, the rest firewood.
Best of luck[

kippy wrote: »

The planting types are subject to change but I wanted to plant some beech as there is some pretty wet areas of land and beech apparently can grow pretty well in those areas. It does Coppice apparently and down the line Beech is a nice wood if it never makes it near the fire.

hayrake

Hi all, first time to post on Boards.
Think you are right to go it alone Kippy. The grants would be small for 2/3 acres and there might be restrictions on what you could grow and what you could do with it. I have recently planted 4.5 acres of fairly heavy land attached to my home. 1.5 acres was planted 2 years ago as a broadleaf woodland for amenity. I also planted a half acre with as many different conifer species as I could get my hands on. The remaining 2.5 acres were planted this year as a firewood supply which will be managed on a coppice rotation. These include;
700 common alder
300 ash
300 sycamore
250 norway maple
150 birch
150 sweet chestnut
100 italian alder
50 willow
50 hazel
The alder are by far the quickest, fast on the wet ground and even faster on the better ground, 700 planted and not one casualty. Italian alder and birch very good also. Willow and hazel look happy enough. the jury is still out on the sweet chestnut but I think it will do ok. Of the two maples the norway looks ok but the sycamore is disapointing, might do better next year. The ash is slow to start with but looks healthy.

I divided the 2.5 acres into 6 sections and hope to start coppicing the first section (alder) after about 6/7 years. I would imagine that the ash would be the last section on the rotation (12/13 yrs). I would agree that beech dont like having their feet wet and I think I read somewhere that they dont coppice well but am open to correction on this.
So get plantin Kippy and put in plenty of alder

hayrake

Should have mentioned that I planted them all at 2 metre spacings. Also,some of the species i mentioned (alder, sweet chestnut) might not be brilliant in the open fire but hopefully should be ok in closed appliances.

slowburner

hayrake wrote: »

Should have mentioned that I planted them all at 2 metre spacings. Also,some of the species i mentioned (alder, sweet chestnut) might not be brilliant in the open fire but hopefully should be ok in closed appliances.

I doubt you'll regret planting Sweet Chestnut.
It's a great coppicer, but more importantly, it's probably one of the most versatile timbers around.
It's almost indistinguishable from the much slower growing Oak, in terms of its properties (hardness, durability etc.).
Most woodworkers would prefer it for its stability.

If yours do ok on the heavy ground, and manage to escape the fire, you might have a valuable timber crop - albeit a small quantity.
Two other merits of s.c. are the nuts, and cleft chestnut for palings.

For me, it's the perfect wood in this climate.