The 'Occupy Wall Street' protests

mickydoomsux

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Yeah, but that is the next logical step of your argument. Whether you realise it or not.

Well thanks for telling me what i'm thinking.

Logical Fallacy

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Well thanks for telling me what i'm thinking.

I'm not telling you what you are thinking, merely reading what you are writing, that people in the first world have no right to complain about things, and making a logical extrapolation of how should an argument could be applied elsewhere.

Like a man who is protesting against sexual violence...lets just tell him to shut the **** up because he's a bloke...so statistically is unlikely to have to deal with sexual violence.

Same model applied to a different subject.

Tyrant^

Eric Cartman wrote: »

the recession was caused by banks using derivatives to repackage bad mortgage debt into loans that looked good to investors, the banks mis-sold products to investors, property developers and mortgage customers.

Why did they do this ? Simple... $$$

Eric Cartman wrote: »

the government allowed this to happen through a lack of regulation and loopholes in financial regulatory guidelines.

Imo, Governments cant write legislation and regulate until the end of time...
Humans are inquisitive and intelligent creatures someone is bound to find a loophole, eventually. And again the question ... What would motivate them to do this ? $$$

Eric Cartman wrote: »

the banks encouraged this misplaced dependency on construction by giving quick credit to these new property developers. Every major bank in the world was at this , there was no way every government saw this and didnt question it.

Banks are very good at hiding things from regulators and in this case everyone got away with hiding it.

Capitalism causes unethical behaviour. Its all about profit... no time for whats right.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

These protesters are blaming rich people, capitalism as a system , corporations and banks / government , my objection to the whole thing is the first 3 , the recession is not rich peoples fault , capitalism didnt bail out the banks , corporations are not always evil and even when they are, they didnt cause this recession ,

Certainly not the rich peoples fault who own these companies. They were just following their objective - maximize profits regardless of the social and environmental cost.

That might sound sarcastic but I genuinely dont blame the "rich". If I had lived their lives I would do the same thing .... Profit !

And .... Capitalism is a bad system ... profit is priority... this is a system detrimental to our health, environment and well being.

Eric Cartman

Tyrant^ wrote: »

Why did they do this ? Simple... $$$



Imo, Governments cant write legislation and regulate until the end of time...
Humans are inquisitive and intelligent creatures someone is bound to find a loophole, eventually. And again the question ... What would motivate them to do this ? $$$



Capitalism causes unethical behaviour. Its all about profit... no time for whats right.



Certainly not the rich peoples fault who own these companies. They were just following their objective - maximize profits regardless of the social and environmental cost.

That might sound sarcastic but I genuinely dont blame the "rich". If I had lived their lives I would do the same thing .... Profit !

And .... Capitalism is a bad system ... profit is priority... this is a system detrimental to our health, environment and well being.

capitalism is not perfect , but profit motivation drive creativity and innovation , its what got us where we are today , and still , capitalism is the best thing we have , we all know socialism and any of the left swinging economic ideals dont work

Tyrant^

Eric Cartman wrote: »

but profit motivation drive creativity and innovation , its what got us where we are today

Not necessarily Jonas Salk, decides not to patent polio vaccine

Profit didn't motivate this man. It didnt motivate some of the other greats like Gandhi, Luther King, Einstein, .... the list can go on.

Gandhi and King ... problems motivated them to create change.
Einstein... he was just curious.

TED RSA - Motivation, incentive, and money
This basically points out the profit incentive is counter productive to productivity / creativity.

I also remember watching a video on a study on school children there were told to create a picture. The first group of kids were told they would be rewarded for the best picture. The second group were not rewarded.

The second group who were not competing with one another had more creative drawings.

I cant find it sorry !

Eric Cartman wrote: »

capitalism is the best thing we have

Id say its the best system we know of... but still pretty crap and is still causing damage regardless. So it has to change.

Tyrant^

http://wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/

Some of these "hippies" letters explaining their predicament.

I like the "we are the 99%" slogan. Makes me think of the movie Terminator Salvation were John Conner is giving his speech over the radio.

"This is John Conner, if you are listening to this, you are the 99% !" :P

mickydoomsux

Tyrant^ wrote: »

http://wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/

Some of these "hippies" letters explaining their predicament.

I like the "we are the 99%" slogan. Makes me think of the movie Terminator Salvation were John Conner is giving his speech over the radio.

"This is John Conner, if you are listening to this, you are the 99% !" :P

A lot of those people are confused about what caused their problems.

They are blaming the 1% (corporations etc.) for the fact they are unemployed/in debt. There's a global recession going on that they seem to have skipped over.

My name is URL

mickydoomsux wrote: »

A lot of those people are confused about what caused their problems.

They are blaming the 1% (corporations etc.) for the fact they are unemployed/in debt. There's a global recession going on that they seem to have skipped over.

And what caused the global recession? The money doesn't just vanish off the face of the earth during a recession.. the richest tend to get richer when during economic down-turns, and there's a systematic reason for that.

mickydoomsux

My name is URL wrote: »

The money doesn't just vanish off the face of the earth during a recession.

There are a lot of huge loans being written down/off so yes money does "disappear".

RichieC

mickydoomsux wrote: »

There are a lot of huge loans being written down/off so yes money does "disappear".

Fractional reserve banking. the money loaned was imaginary or about 90% of it is.

Tyrant^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7v9L-t3gxzQ

Alessio Rastani dreams of a market crash. Why ? Profit ! ... Ethical ? ... No !
He does have some morals ... giving tips out at the end of the video.

Eggy Baby!

Obama should send in the air force....





America is silly.

mickydoomsux

Tyrant^ wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7v9L-t3gxzQ

Alessio Rastani dreams of a market crash. Why ? Profit ! ... Ethical ? ... No !
He does have some morals ... giving tips out at the end of the video.

There's huge questions over this guys credibility.

Eric Cartman

http://wearethe1percent.tumblr.com/

I preffer this one, full of inspirational characters

Tyrant^

mickydoomsux wrote: »

There's huge questions over this guys credibility.

Dont know about that. Im just concerned with what he dreams about.
Im sure many others dream of a crash too.

mickydoomsux

Tyrant^ wrote: »

Dont know about that. Im just concerned with what he dreams about.
Im sure many others dream of a crash too.

He's a bit of a buffoon by all accounts.

Less than a grand in his companies account and his trading record is a loss of 10 grand after 4 years trading.

There are other unverified reports going around that he runs his business from his mams house.

Eric Cartman

Tyrant^ wrote: »

Dont know about that. Im just concerned with what he dreams about.
Im sure many others dream of a crash too.

Im a fairly hardline capitalist, I love money almost as much as that lad and do whatever I need to to make some of it , But that guy is actually nuts , there are ways to make money in a crash but its easier to make money in a boom , no investor dreams of a crash

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Eric Cartman wrote: »

so is loitering , disturbing the peace, verbally assaulting a police officer and causing an obstruction.


the economic situation and motivation behind this protest is misunderstood by yourself and these protesters.

the recession was caused by banks using derivatives to repackage bad mortgage debt into loans that looked good to investors, the banks mis-sold products to investors, property developers and mortgage customers. the government allowed this to happen through a lack of regulation and loopholes in financial regulatory guidelines. the banks encouraged this misplaced dependency on construction by giving quick credit to these new property developers. Every major bank in the world was at this , there was no way every government saw this and didnt question it. Banks are very good at hiding things from regulators and in this case everyone got away with hiding it. the whole thing has come to a head now and its a bad situation , the banks are the primary source of blame , followed by the builders and people who took out these mortgages , the governments in this case are fairly down the bottom of the list of causes of blame for the recession , its how they responded to it.

Now just to get it across , I object to governments bailing out any of the banks , I dont believe in social welfare and I certainly dont believe in this, its just socialism at a higher level, I would never want any government to own the bank I use. If it was my party I would have let the banks fail and wed most likely be in a much better position internally.

These protesters are blaming rich people, capitalism as a system , corporations and banks / government , my objection to the whole thing is the first 3 , the recession is not rich peoples fault , capitalism didnt bail out the banks , corporations are not always evil and even when they are, they didnt cause this recession ,

if these protesters made accurate signs, didnt bother people just going to work and protested the actual local bank branches instead id have less of a problem , from the evidence provided though , this whole thing is nothing more than an attack on capitalism , rich people and corporations , the blame is misplaced and these protesters havent got a fcuking clue

1 - True, but the measures open to the police to deal with such offenses are regulated and do not generlly included macing. Would you agree with a spolice offire pulling over a motorist for speeding and then macing him?

2 - You're missing the point. What happened economically hapened because of greed and no other reason, so how you can turn around and say greed is good is beyond me.

3 - How do you eman you object to social welfare? The entire system? Just the spongers (in whcih case, as I said earlier, I would agree with you). You say you don't agree with the bail-out, well netierh do the protestors, I would imagine, they're justa little less lazy than you are.

4 - Yes, corruption did cause the recession. Corruption and greed. It wasn't capitalism, I agree, but it was people who greedily abused capitalism. Capitalism, like Communism, does work in theory, but fails because humanity is too insecure and greedy to make it work.

Overall? You seem to want to make greed blameless. That or you have a very niave appraoch to the psychology behind both the protest and the underlying reasons for the recession. It is not the system or the individual corporations at fault, yes, but it IS greedy individuals that caused it. Both iin positions of power and on the street. Whether the protestors are right or wrong is irrelevant, they have the right to protest, and I think it may well spread and get bigge before it goes away.

Johro

My name is URL wrote: »

Is anyone following this story? There seems to be very little talk about it round these parts.

Apparently this was doing the rounds on facebook Wall Street Protest.jpg

My name is URL

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Im a fairly hardline capitalist, I love money almost as much as that lad and do whatever I need to to make some of it

So presumably you're not in favour of how the government is bailing out banks at a cost to you and the people that generate distributable capital? Much the same as what is being protested against.

mickydoomsux

Johro wrote: »

Apparently this was doing the rounds on facebook Wall Street Protest.jpg

That's already been debunked as a poorly mottled together photoshop using an image from Google maps.

Manic Moran

1 - True, but the measures open to the police to deal with such offenses are regulated and do not generlly included macing. Would you agree with a spolice offire pulling over a motorist for speeding and then macing him?

Analogy fail. By pulling over, the motorist was complying with instruction.

I am not a fan of the trend of using disabling devices in order to obtain compliance, but I understand why it is done. The non compliant individual is subdued by taser or spray in situations that used to be dealt with by baton or manhandling. They do not involve any physical contact at all thus allegations of abuse or excessive force are mitigated. One cannot easily see how much pressure is being used in a come-along, pepper spray is fairly consistent from all video angles.

Now, I'd rather all the silly lawsuits be prevented from starting in the first place and the cops reduce their reliance on things like Tasers, but that is unlikely to happen.

NTM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Manic Moran wrote: »

Analogy fail. By pulling over, the motorist was complying with instruction.

I am not a fan of the trend of using disabling devices in order to obtain compliance, but I understand why it is done. The non compliant individual is subdued by taser or spray in situations that used to be dealt with by baton or manhandling. They do not involve any physical contact at all thus allegations of abuse or excessive force are mitigated. One cannot easily see how much pressure is being used in a come-along, pepper spray is fairly consistent from all video angles.

Now, I'd rather all the silly lawsuits be prevented from starting in the first place and the cops reduce their reliance on things like Tasers, but that is unlikely to happen.

NTM

Fair enough, but my point is that the police still have rules to adhere to. If the officer is being threatened, then yes, but if he isn't it's just going to instigate more violence.

greenpilot

mickydoomsux wrote: »

There's huge questions over this guys credibility.

Take a read of this....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/8792829/BBC-financial-expert-Alessio-Rastani-Im-an-attention-seeker-not-a-trader.html

mickydoomsux

greenpilot wrote: »

mickydoomsux wrote: »

There's huge questions over this guys credibility.

Take a read of this....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/8792829/BBC-financial-expert-Alessio-Rastani-Im-an-attention-seeker-not-a-trader.html

Um, the story I linked to about him a few posts back directly quotes the article you just linked to.

Logical Fallacy

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Im a fairly hardline capitalist, I love money almost as much as that lad and do whatever I need to to make some of it , But that guy is actually nuts , there are ways to make money in a crash but its easier to make money in a boom , no investor dreams of a crash

Some do...no better time to make new acquisitions such as property and plant than during a crash. Once you are one of the people who still has funds you can make some pretty clever purchases.

Boom and crash both come in cycles.

RichieC

Shockingly awful journalism... the protesters should be targeting these crooks aswell... "occupy the fourth estate"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL_RaOtI80U

Fox know that they cannot leverage these protesters to enact right wing socially conservative policies. so they are of no use.

Logical Fallacy

Wow, Fox get confused when something doesn't only have one main message. I guess that's what happens when you deal purely in unilateral thought.

RichieC

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Wow, Fox get confused when something doesn't only have one main message. I guess that's what happens when you deal purely in unilateral thought.

Too hard to control the message.

"stop the spending" is easy.

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

these people want successful businessmen and other people whove made their money through effort and work to give up money to lazy people who expect something for nothing

I don't think you really understand the system you admire so much. While many entrepreneurs do make a living from hard work, many of them make their staggering fortunes by the work of their employees, who see a tiny fraction of the profits.

The Occupy Wall St. people seem to be mostly protesting against corporate interference in their government, which is a very real problem in the United States.

Under capitalism or socialism, the banks would have been allowed to fail.

Manic Moran

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Fair enough, but my point is that the police still have rules to adhere to. If the officer is being threatened, then yes, but if he isn't it's just going to instigate more violence.

He's authorised to enforce compliance. Indeed, he has to. Otherwise the alternative is "Move, or I'll tell you to move again."

NTM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Manic Moran wrote: »

He's authorised to enforce compliance. Indeed, he has to. Otherwise the alternative is "Move, or I'll tell you to move again."

NTM

I would have thought arrest? Fair enough, if the guys resists arrest or is threatening, the cop's probably cleared to use reasonable force.

Eric Cartman

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think you really understand the system you admire so much. While many entrepreneurs do make a living from hard work, many of them make their staggering fortunes by the work of their employees, who see a tiny fraction of the profits.

thats how jobs work.....

The Occupy Wall St. people seem to be mostly protesting against corporate interference in their government, which is a very real problem in the United States.

ill agree with that, a small goverment and a non-us bastardisation of capitalism would solve this problem. the word 'mostly' i wont agree with , there are some people there protesting goverment corruption and others about the mistakes the banks made , but theres a lot of people also there protesting about rich people being rich, capitalism as a system , blaming the republicans for everything etc... theres a very mixed message coming from the protest and the legitimate concerns are being shouted down by the looney-left morons

Under capitalism or socialism, the banks would have been allowed to fail.

under socialism the banks would have been goverment owned and run anyway

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Eric Cartman wrote: »

thats how jobs work.....

ill agree with that, a small goverment and a non-us bastardisation of capitalism would solve this problem. the word 'mostly' i wont agree with , there are some people there protesting goverment corruption and others about the mistakes the banks made , but theres a lot of people also there protesting about rich people being rich, capitalism as a system , blaming the republicans for everything etc... theres a very mixed message coming from the protest and the legitimate concerns are being shouted down by the looney-left morons

Still speculation.

Eric Cartman

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Still speculation.

http://ph.cdn.photos.upi.com/sv/emb/UPI-89641317369600/eaa18f07fc774140ac3885c30e0e2d19/Occupy-Wall-Street-gets-union-support.jpg

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2011/10/01/alg_occupy-wall-street-police.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/305214_2247499181103_1056881076_32243046_86050076_n.jpg

http://www.mogulite.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/occupy-wall-street-300x265.jpg

all just anti police, anti rich, anti capitalism bullshít

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Eric Cartman wrote: »

http://ph.cdn.photos.upi.com/sv/emb/UPI-89641317369600/eaa18f07fc774140ac3885c30e0e2d19/Occupy-Wall-Street-gets-union-support.jpg

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2011/10/01/alg_occupy-wall-street-police.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/305214_2247499181103_1056881076_32243046_86050076_n.jpg

http://www.mogulite.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/occupy-wall-street-300x265.jpg

all just anti police, anti rich, anti capitalism bullshít

None of those signs are anti-rich, one is anti-capitalism (and even so, hardly a criminal opinion to hold), one is anti-corruption and two are anti-greed.

mickydoomsux

Eric Cartman wrote: »

http://ph.cdn.photos.upi.com/sv/emb/UPI-89641317369600/eaa18f07fc774140ac3885c30e0e2d19/Occupy-Wall-Street-gets-union-support.jpg

A job isn't a right. The ability to seek a job is a right i guess.

http://www.mogulite.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/occupy-wall-street-300x265.jpg

Ugh. A 4Channer complete with Fawkes mask and "witty" internet meme. They'd show up to protest about anything that the internet hive-mind tells them to. Did they kill Scientology yet?

mickydoomsux

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

None of those signs are anti-rich

Including the one about "eating the rich"?

one is anti-capitalism (and even so, hardly a criminal opinion to hold)

They are all slightly anti-capitalism.

one is anti-corruption

I presume you are referencing the one that is criticizing the NYPD for doing their jobs

and two are anti-greed.

Once again they all have slight anti-greed undertones.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Including the one about "eating the rich"?



They are all slightly anti-capitalism.



I presume you are referencing the one that is criticizing the NYPD for doing their jobs



Once again they all have slight anti-greed undertones.

They may well all be cligtly anti-capitalist but again, is this a bad opinion to hold? Capitalism is, like communism, a system that is/has failed because of the weakness of the people organising it: would you be as critical if they were holdign anti-communist signs.

The one that is criticial of the NYPD, seems to be critical of heavy-handed polcie action. How come when a protester breaks the law, he deserves to be maced, but when an entrepuener breaks the law, he deserves credit and financial bonusses..?? If people are so happy with the police when they mace people who break the law, how come they haven't maced corrupt businessmen and politiicans.

I would say the all have anti-greed overtones, but as I have pointed out to Mr. Cartmen, greed is not good and ****s up society. But none of them say that that are in any way anti-rich, which was the initial point. Cartman has not done any research, he has just dismissed the motives on of the protestors based on his own vices and errors of judgements.

SafeSurfer

Eric Cartman wrote: »

capitalism is not perfect , but profit motivation drive creativity and innovation , its what got us where we are today , and still , capitalism is the best thing we have , we all know socialism and any of the left swinging economic ideals dont work

What we have is capitalism for the profits banks make and socialism for the losses.

This is what angers people.

http://www.reuters.com/video/2011/10/04/michael-lewis-wall-streets-fingerprints?videoId=222228347

Tyrant^

Im getting tired of all the nitpicking in this thread.
Cartman and Mick seem to just blindly promote capitalism even though they have seen its flaws.

You must not mind having to pay more taxes to bail out crook and the on going cycle of depressions / recessions.
Judging by history another recession in another 30-40 years or so ? If we get out of this one

If either of you were in the position of those protesters. Would you still be pro-capitalism ?

You will probably say "Oh They made the wrong choices" Do you expect people to always make the right choices ? And even if they did make all the right choices the system could fail them. Either the company they have been working for will go bust or the company bought a new machine that does your job 24/7 and he doesnt take sick days !

Mick... your in public transport ? I assume you drive a vehicle.
Auto driving car

This is just one example of technological unemployment.
So if you take the first rule of capitalism - Profit. Whats to stop any transport company implementing this technology when its fully developed. It sure will save money and boost productivity.

Oh wait ... everyone in transport just got laid off.

Capitalism doesnt care and it doesnt account for everyone.

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Go far enough down the rabbit hole and pretty much every company out there is "unethical" in some way.

It's called business. You don't win by being nice to people.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

capitalism is not perfect

So... its bad ? Enough said...

tony007

Eric Cartman wrote: »

all just anti police, anti rich, anti capitalism bullshít

Yes, because the rich and the effects of trying a capitalist system have really come to fruition :rolleyes:

tony007

Eric Cartman wrote: »

under socialism the banks would have been goverment owned and run anyway

False. They would be worker owned. You are mixing up communism with socialism.

Zebra3

Eric Cartman wrote: »

capitalism is not perfect

So maybe people are out there protesting, hoping it can be changed for the better....

Manic Moran

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Manic Moran wrote: »

He's authorised to enforce compliance. Indeed, he has to. Otherwise the alternative is "Move, or I'll tell you to move again."

NTM

I would have thought arrest? Fair enough, if the guys resists arrest or is threatening, the cop's probably cleared to use reasonable force.

You miss the point. If I were to as much as lightly poke you with my little finger without your permission, it is a battery under the law. i.e. violence. An attempt to arrest someone will require physical contact, authorized only by the officer's status.

So the two choices when faced with non compliance with verbal instruction are limited violence with arrest, or just limited violence without arrest. If the solution can be found without arrest, and without excessive violence, why not go that route?

NTM

Eric Cartman

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

They may well all be cligtly anti-capitalist but again, is this a bad opinion to hold? Capitalism is, like communism, a system that is/has failed because of the weakness of the people organising it: would you be as critical if they were holdign anti-communist signs.

The one that is criticial of the NYPD, seems to be critical of heavy-handed polcie action. How come when a protester breaks the law, he deserves to be maced, but when an entrepuener breaks the law, he deserves credit and financial bonusses..?? If people are so happy with the police when they mace people who break the law, how come they haven't maced corrupt businessmen and politiicans.

it is if you dont have a good alternative, theres no use complaining about something if theres no way to make it better ,

i would be if communism was the best and most successful economic system available to us and it had provided me with a good standard of living.

the police are not being heavy handed, they havent clubbed anyone to death or anything ,

please provide me examples where an entrepreneur was rewarded by the justice system for illegal activity ?

SafeSurfer wrote: »

What we have is capitalism for the profits banks make and socialism for the losses.

This is what angers people.

if this is true, they should make signs that reflect that, I disagree with bailing out the banks and theres nothing capitalist about bailing them out.

Tyrant^ wrote: »

Im getting tired of all the nitpicking in this thread.
Cartman and Mick seem to just blindly promote capitalism even though they have seen its flaws.

im simply pointing out that theres nothing better than capitalism and if you have anything better then ill stop nitpicking about your attack on the only system that works

You must not mind having to pay more taxes to bail out crook and the on going cycle of depressions / recessions.
Judging by history another recession in another 30-40 years or so ? If we get out of this one

If either of you were in the position of those protesters. Would you still be pro-capitalism ?

yet again , I wouldnt have bailed out the banks , and ill agree no i wouldnt , If i was lazy , didnt bother getting the skills for or looking for a job , was ignorant of how mortgages , the economy and government works , tried to get everything I could off welfare and had everything handed to me by my parents , then i would definitley hate capitalism

the company bought a new machine that does your job 24/7 and he doesnt take sick days !

i make my money designing such solutions , so its a bad argument to bring up with me.

Capitalism doesnt care and it doesnt account for everyone.
So... its bad ? Enough said...

capitalism looks after those willing to work hard and adapt to new situations not whingers and people refusing to re-train, its not perfect but its not bad either.

Zebra3 wrote: »

So maybe people are out there protesting, hoping it can be changed for the better....

that would be nice if they suggested how to fix it instead of just getting angry at the current situation , revolution only happens when you replace an old idea with a new one, the revolution is the process going from old to new, this cant be a revolution because they dont know any better way so they just whinge

mickydoomsux

Presidential hopeful Herman Cain shows how not to win friends among the protestors

Eric Cartman

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Presidential hopeful Herman Cain shows how not to win friends among the protestors

that man is 100% spot on

Seachmall

First Egypt, then Libya, now the US.

Who would've thought :pac:

mickydoomsux

Seachmall wrote: »

First Egypt, then Libya, now the US.

Who would've thought :pac:

Not even sort of comparable. The Arab Spring had widespread support amoung the population whereas this is a tiny minority of the usual suspects.