The 'Occupy Wall Street' protests

ed2hands

Seachmall wrote: »

First Egypt, then Libya, now the US.

Who would've thought :pac:

I hear Gadaffi now recognises the Wall St rebels as the official government of the US.







(not really;))

Seachmall

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Not even sort of comparable. The Arab Spring had widespread support amoung the population whereas this is a tiny minority of the usual suspects.

Hence the :pac:

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Eric Cartman wrote: »

it is if you dont have a good alternative, theres no use complaining about something if theres no way to make it better ,

i would be if communism was the best and most successful economic system available to us and it had provided me with a good standard of living.

For me, as I said, it's not the system that fails or succeeds, it's the people running it. Communism works in theory. Capitalism works intheory. Mankind has tried both and failed. It's not a question of having a better system, it's about making the system worked.

Plato said it was a question of whether the people running the system will succeed if the people have the concerns of society at heart, and will fail if they put their own personal concerns first. I agree with this and, for me, capitalism does not do this. At least, not in the present format.

the police are not being heavy handed, they havent clubbed anyone to death or anything ,

Do they need to?

please provide me examples where an entrepreneur was rewarded by the justice system for illegal activity ?

Are you serious? You don't beleive this happens?

if this is true, they should make signs that reflect that, I disagree with bailing out the banks and theres nothing capitalist about bailing them out.

Perhaps they do. Try reading mor than just the signs.

yet again , I wouldnt have bailed out the banks , and ill agree no i wouldnt , If i was lazy , didnt bother getting the skills for or looking for a job , was ignorant of how mortgages , the economy and government works , tried to get everything I could off welfare and had everything handed to me by my parents , then i would definitley hate capitalism

i make my money designing such solutions , so its a bad argument to bring up with me.

capitalism looks after those willing to work hard and adapt to new situations not whingers and people refusing to re-train, its not perfect but its not bad either.



that would be nice if they suggested how to fix it instead of just getting angry at the current situation , revolution only happens when you replace an old idea with a new one, the revolution is the process going from old to new, this cant be a revolution because they dont know any better way so they just whinge

You wouldn't like it fixed. It would mean no business interferance in government, for a start.

pbowenroe

bunch of hipsters with too much time on their hands if you ask me

tony007

Eric Cartman wrote: »

that man is 100% spot on

His first statement is ''I don't have facts to back this up, but...'' and then goes on to say something which is ridiculous without facts to back it up.

tony007

pbowenroe wrote: »

bunch of hipsters with too much time on their hands if you ask me

Because they lost their jobs

tony007

Eric Cartman wrote: »

im simply pointing out that theres nothing better than capitalism and if you have anything better then ill stop nitpicking about your attack on the only system that works

How do you know it's better if it hasn't existed before? Better in what way?

Eric Cartman

tony007 wrote: »

How do you know it's better if it hasn't existed before? Better in what way?

there may be something better in the future, right now capitalism is the only thing that will keep me in the lifestyle ive built for myself

Eric Cartman

tony007 wrote: »

Because they lost their jobs

judging by the look of them id say atleast 50% wouldnt know what a job is

tony007

Eric Cartman wrote: »

there may be something better in the future, right now capitalism is the only thing that will keep me in the lifestyle ive built for myself

What lifestyle is that? And you've just pointed out yourself, capitalism has never existed

tony007

Eric Cartman wrote: »

judging by the look of them id say atleast 50% wouldnt know what a job is

Such exactness being used

Eric Cartman

tony007 wrote: »

What lifestyle is that? And you've just pointed out yourself, capitalism has never existed

please explain how capitalism doesnt exist ? youve confused me now

that lifestyle is liveing very comfortably , having more assets than debt , buying things I want to buy , being able to go out to the pub / town multiple nights a week , drive a nice car and sleep at night without worrying. Im well aware im better off than a lot of people , but its not my fault people are poor

Seachmall

Eric Cartman wrote: »

but its not my fault people are poor

I'm holding you personally responsible for poverty in this country.

You monster.

Zebra3

Eric Cartman wrote: »

judging by the look of them id say atleast 50% wouldnt know what a job is

Thanks for the in depth analysis. :rolleyes:

enniscorthy

GET A HAIR CUT DAMNED HIPPIES

theTinker

I'm very proud of these protesters.

Im not anti capitalist or communistic in any ways. Frankly, I couldnt give a hair what system we operate on as long as it does its job and provides the people of a nation with a safe, productive, happy, fairly free, healthy living conditions.

However, All around me. For years now. Everyone i know, losing thier jobs. Thier education becoming nothing but a piece of paper on a pile of CVs with 100 other more experienced or more easily coerced applicants.
I do feel that the system in its current form is ridiculously unworkable.
I tire of seeing hard working men and women struggling in fear of being evicted or unable to live a comfortable life style.

We have the technology and means to cheaply produce practically anything, enough food and luxuries that all people could stand out proudly of thier possessions and thier morals. Yet, we have none of this, Simply because of the system of unaccountable democracy, corrupt leadership, and worst of all... a populace so used to being socially apathic that it knows no difference.

The fact our system is based on credit or debt that can never be payed back is laughable.
The decision to allow reserves and banks to simply make money at whim deplorable, and removes the control of a nation from people.
When ireland joined the euro, we lost alot of control to the people who print the money. When america gave the banks and F.Reserve the right to print and the lazy restrictions placed upon the banks, they effectively gave control to a few businessmen.

I'm very ashamed of the society i live in these days. Every time i open a paper, I see bertie claiming 300k+ for secretaries and 10k in phone expenses because he used to work for the country?
I constantly see a populace in complete fear of authority around them, not because they have no power, but because thier is no fairness or socially responsible protection for them anymore.

A garda can hit me and get away with it, but if i'd defend myself, I'd be beaten and locked away.

I see a rapist have thier sentences suspended early and people who controlled the flow of money given large bonuses even though they neglected the society and practically manslaughtered the economy. These people should be up on treason charges.

I bare no hate to any of them. I simply pray for balance, justice, and even a morsel of fairness. A person can only hunger for these so long before they starve, or kill to get them.

I hope protests like these at wall street continue. I hope they spread to Ireland and perhaps even if we dont accomplish anything, It might inspire someone else, a future generation, or even remind the current populace that the system is installed by its people. It is ruled by thier will. Its leaders should bow down to its lowliest and ask them what they want.

Eric Cartman

Seachmall wrote: »

I'm holding you personally responsible for poverty in this country.

You monster.

you know the USC on your paycheck , that really means U Subsidizing Cartman

tony007

Eric Cartman wrote: »

please explain how capitalism doesnt exist ? youve confused me now

that lifestyle is liveing very comfortably , having more assets than debt , buying things I want to buy , being able to go out to the pub / town multiple nights a week , drive a nice car and sleep at night without worrying. Im well aware im better off than a lot of people , but its not my fault people are poor

You said the the socialisation of debt isn't capitalism. There are little to no countries where this hasn't occured.
Regarding your second paragraph, the conditions of slaves improved from the 18th to 19th century. Is that an argument for slavery?

tony007

enniscorthy wrote: »

GET A HAIR CUT DAMNED HIPPIES

You sound like someone commenting on a foxe news story

Tyrant^

Eric Cartman wrote: »

it is if you dont have a good alternative, theres no use complaining about something if theres no way to make it better

The future is unimaginable.
For example, in the ancient world no one could even contemplate a system without slavery. Im sure the commoner would have proclaimed vehement criticism of anyone opposing the status quo.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

im simply pointing out that theres nothing better than capitalism and if you have anything better then ill stop nitpicking about your attack on the only system that works

I dont have anything better. All I can say is dont worry about it.
Like I said the future is unimaginable.

I like to use the slavery analogy

"Who will build our great temples?" "Who will do all the farming?" "How will cotton be picked?"

We know the answers to these questions today. Imagine if you could go back in time to the 15th Century and try explain the solutions of these problems to the Kings, Priests and common folk!

Eric Cartman wrote: »

yet again , I wouldnt have bailed out the banks , and ill agree no i wouldnt , If i was lazy , didnt bother getting the skills for or looking for a job , was ignorant of how mortgages , the economy and government works , tried to get everything I could off welfare and had everything handed to me by my parents , then i would definitley hate capitalism

They dont look lazy to me, marching around wall street, holding up signs, shouting at the top of their lungs, and getting maced in the face for the past 2 weeks. Ok I put the last one in for fun they arent ALL getting maced.
Still, it is easier to look for a job that is not there...

Im overqualified for my current job and I cant get one to that fit my skill set. Because there are none.

Most of the population is lacking in financial knowledge. You could say its their fault. We arent exactly thought how business and economics work in secondary school. And even if we were thought we all cant be wealthy the system can not support everyone living luxuriously. If one is too succeed more more must fail.
Maybe ... if we could limit how much profit people and companies could earn ?
Not through taxation but just a hard cap.
Possible ? dont know... leave this discussion for another day.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

i make my money designing such solutions , so its a bad argument to bring up with me.

Artificial intelligence, one day it will be able to design better solutions.
In your lifetime ? Maybe, Its do-able... imo

Eric Cartman wrote: »

capitalism looks after those willing to work hard and adapt to new situations not whingers and people refusing to re-train, its not perfect but its not bad either.

Work hard ? It really depends on the situation your in, a sweat shop in Asia for example. Try work your way out of there. Few do... most dont.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

that would be nice if they suggested how to fix it instead of just getting angry at the current situation , revolution only happens when you replace an old idea with a new one, the revolution is the process going from old to new, this cant be a revolution because they dont know any better way so they just whinge

I dont know exactly what will replace capitalism, I just know it has to go. It will require allot of effort, open mindedness and cooperation on a global scale.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

there may be something better in the future,

Good, we are getting somewhere

Eric Cartman wrote: »

that lifestyle is liveing very comfortably , having more assets than debt , buying things I want to buy , being able to go out to the pub / town multiple nights a week , drive a nice car and sleep at night without worrying. Im well aware im better off than a lot of people , but its not my fault people are poor

More assets than debt !? Entire countries dont even have that ! lol
http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Your entitled to buy whatever you want and do whatever you want... Nobody said it was your fault ?
You just support a system that causes poor people to exist in the first place.
And lots of other nasty sh1t but lets keep this short.

F**k, Id like to be able to experience what it must be like for you, even just for a day... anti-capitalist hippies protesting, whingeing in the streets. Protesting against the very system that has given you a fairly luxurious lifestyle. And then, to have some hippies on boards.ie to try convince you that there is a better way... Ludicrous !



Anyway, try to keep an open mind for your own sake. And dont sh1t on the protesters for trying.

The Crises of Capitalism

Seachmall

Tyrant^ wrote: »

The future is unimaginable.
For example, in the ancient world no one could even contemplate a system without slavery. Im sure the commoner would have proclaimed vehement criticism of anyone opposing the status quo.

Just as a point of interest: the Egyptians used paid workers to build the Pyramids and even provided rudimentary health care.

Tyrant^

Seachmall wrote: »

Just as a point of interest: the Egyptians used paid workers to build the Pyramids and even provided rudimentary health care.

Mind reader :eek:
I was going to start that comment by just mentioning ancient Egypt. But decided to encompass a broader view - just slavery in general. Greece, Rome etc.

Still its evidence from 3000 BC. Whats your source ?
Maybe they had a more advanced system of slavery - debt bondage.
A common type of slavery today.

Seachmall

Tyrant^ wrote: »

Mind reader

:cool:

Still its evidence from 3000 BC. Whats your source ?

Nat Geo, Skeptoid (not necessarily reliable) and Wiki (just easy to source Wiki).

It's one of those myths that persists although it's pretty much accepted amongst historians that they had skilled and paid workers AFAIK.

youcrazyjesus!

Eric Cartman wrote: »

nah , just stop giving them social welfare and give them a job and as soon as they get 1 paycheck and see how much tax is dissapearing to fund layabouts theyll soon see that their crazy beliefs are wrong

The vast majority of those protesting are highly educated, to a higher level than you, I'm certain.

General General

US unions gave a high-profile boost to the long running protest against Wall Street and economic inequality, with members joining thousands of protesters in a Manhattan march.
Across the United States, students at several colleges walked out of classes in solidarity.
Sterling W. Roberson, vice president for the United Federation of Teachers, said union members shared the same ideals as activists who have been camped out in sleeping bags.
"The middle class is taking the burden, but the wealthiest of our state and country are not," he said.
The Occupy Wall Street protests started on 17 September with a few dozen demonstrators who tried to pitch tents in front of the New York Stock Exchange.
Since then, hundreds have set up camp in Zuccotti Park and have become increasingly organized, lining up medical aid and legal help and printing their own newspaper, the Occupied Wall Street Journal.
Other groups have gathered and protested in cities throughout the US.
The protesters have varied causes but reserve most of their criticism for Wall Street, saying "we are the 99%" - in contrast to the wealthiest 1% of Americans.
Thousands packed Foley Square, an area encircled by courthouses, and marched to the protesters' unofficial headquarters nearby.
People in the crowd were carrying red-white-and-blue signs bearing a giant, star-graced A - representing the motto "Rebuild America." Other signs carried slogans saying "Tax Wall Street" and "Make Jobs Not Cuts."
One of the larger protests outside New York City on Wednesday was in Boston, where about 200 Northeastern University students gathered on campus to condemn what they called corporate control of government and the spiralling costs of their education.
Hundreds of college students at New York's sprawling public university system walked out of classes Wednesday afternoon.
"The state of education in our country is ridiculous," said student Danielle Kingsbury, who said some of her professors had increasing workloads because of budget cuts. "The state doesn't care about it, and we need to fight back about that."
The New York protests drew international attention on Saturday when about 700 members of the Wall Street group were arrested and given disorderly conduct summonses for spilling into the roadway of the Brooklyn Bridge on Saturday despite warnings from police.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1005/wallst.html

RTE News online is surprisingly good sometimes, featuring stories that the Guardian or BBC only get around to covering a day or days afterwards.

I wonder just how many unions will get involved, sure, they are bought up etc... but when the wind changes...

Oh, & afaik, all revolutionary types look like "freaks"... & all revolutionary types get told things like: you couldn't even hold down a job, ya f.ucki.ng hippie...

Antikythera

pbowenroe wrote: »

bunch of hipsters with too much time on their hands if you ask me

You'd know all about having too much time on your hands wouldn't you?

ed2hands

Here's a piece of TV garbage from the lovely people at Fox. Unbelievable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOlKCxsg15c

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

The run a spot called "Lunatics of the Left Wing" and cal lthemselves fari and balanced...?? They're just not trying to pretend any more!

lolo62

previous user wrote: »

Wheres the equivalent of Wall Street that we could all protest at in Dublin?

'occupy dublin' have a facebook page and its in the works!

AhSureTisGrand

lolo62 wrote: »

'occupy dublin' have a facebook page and its in the works!

Occupy Dame Street isn't it? We're gonna reclaim the Central Bank from the emos and junkies

lolo62

AhSureTisGrand wrote: »

Occupy Dame Street isn't it? We're gonna reclaim the Central Bank from the emos and junkies

youre right! 2pm on saturday at central bank...

Laika1986

I checked the occupytogether.org site today about 2 and they had 450 cities involved. As on half ten tonight there's 758 cities!

lolo62

Laika1986 wrote: »

I checked the occupytogether.org site today about 2 and they had 450 cities involved. As on half ten tonight there's 758 cities!

thats great isnt it! i have restored faith in the american people after seeing them stand up...i hope i feel the same about the irish after saturday...do you guys think this will draw large numbers?

....lets hope 'robocop' and his buddies are on tight leashes!

SnowY32

Over 700 arrests including reporters in the last 24hours Live Steam For anyone interested.


http://www.livestream.com/globalrevolution

hmmm

They've been allowed make their point (whatever that is) outside the Central Bank. The police should now move them on, we shouldn't allow a squalid hippy camp in the city centre.

Dole day would be a good day to take back the area, the population will presumably have dropped.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

hmmm wrote: »

They've been allowed make their point (whatever that is) outside the Central Bank. The police should now move them on, we shouldn't allow a squalid hippy camp in the city centre.

Dole day would be a good day to take back the area, the population will presumably have dropped.

There's a squalid hippy camp as well as an occupy protest? Must be getting criwded over therre.

Eric Cartman

hmmm wrote: »

They've been allowed make their point (whatever that is) outside the Central Bank. The police should now move them on, we shouldn't allow a squalid hippy camp in the city centre.

Dole day would be a good day to take back the area, the population will presumably have dropped.

sure just stop selling naggins and rolling tobacco within a 1km radius and theyll all be gone by morning

NickDrake

Maybe these Hippies will go and get a job now and pay some taxes.

The ones in Dublin are a disgrace, if you took away their dole they wouldn't be long complaining.

GO get a job and pay some taxes liek everyone else. Then you can have an opinion about being hard done by.

Scum

Logical Fallacy

NickDrake wrote: »

Maybe these Hippies will go and get a job now and pay some taxes.

The ones in Dublin are a disgrace, if you took away their dole they wouldn't be long complaining.

GO get a job and pay some taxes liek everyone else. Then you can have an opinion about being hard done by.

Scum

Indeed, the increased numbers on the dole have nothing to do with the loss of many jobs in this country over the last couple of years.

Another genius rolls into AH.

NickDrake

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Indeed, the increased numbers on the dole have nothing to do with the loss of many jobs in this country over the last couple of years.

Another genius rolls into AH.

These Hippies in Dame street are not like the honest people who are actually looking for a job. They are just bumbs

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Indeed, the increased numbers on the dole have nothing to do with the loss of many jobs in this country over the last couple of years.

Another genius rolls into AH.

So... Ireland doesn't have 100% employment, then...??

Crazy Horse 6

NickDrake wrote: »

Maybe these Hippies will go and get a job now and pay some taxes.

The ones in Dublin are a disgrace, if you took away their dole they wouldn't be long complaining.

GO get a job and pay some taxes liek everyone else. Then you can have an opinion about being hard done by.

Scum

You are a sad prat.

hatrickpatrick

I'm going to ask the same question here that I've asked in every thread related to OWS, without ever getting a real answer to it.

Naysayers: Do you support the culture of corruption and croneyism which is so prevalent today in the international financial/political axis?

And if not, why are you mocking and attacking those who are demonstrating against it?

Manic Moran

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

And if not, why are you mocking and attacking those who are demonstrating against it?[/b]

The demonstrations are obviously futile and the persons partaking often don't seem to be the sort I'd take either financial or political advice from anyway.

NTM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'm going to ask the same question here that I've asked in every thread related to OWS, without ever getting a real answer to it.

Naysayers: Do you support the culture of corruption and croneyism which is so prevalent today in the international financial/political axis?

And if not, why are you mocking and attacking those who are demonstrating against it?

Playing devil's advocatre here, but

1 - Probably because it's a culture they stand to benefit from and are happy to **** everyone else. Blindingly, these people see themselves as immune to social problems or any sense of empathy towards their fellow humans. They hide this behind a shield of blame, pointing out that everyone who "has not", has done something to deserve it, either via stupidity or laziness; conveniently ignoring the fact that many people are in this trap through no fault of their own. Because that would mean admitting that something is wrong with the system, and as the gain from the system, nothign can be seem to be wrong with the system, because if it is, then there goes their shiny penny.

2 - Because (and here I would agree with them) thee is no coordinated effort toactually bring about change. Over the last few years, I have decided that democracy is a waste of space, but the reasons we it's the best we have is because people are greedy, selfish and insecure, as has been bourn out by the nay-sayers. Why? because they stand to benefit from the corrupt and broken system that we have.

And so, we get stuck in a vicious circle: one side are happy to troll and verbally abuse because they are economically good but morally flawed and the other side are happy to vent but are incapable of doing anything because they are morally good but economically flawed. No one gives a ****, everyone loses, the end.

AngeGal

Here's a quick lesson in economics for the OWS crew, they are in top %5 of wealthiest people on the planet, let's take their wealth and give it to the other %95. See what their opinion on wealth redistribution is then.

Logical Fallacy

NickDrake wrote: »

These Hippies in Dame street are not like the honest people who are actually looking for a job. They are just bumbs

Okaybs.

Eric Cartman

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'm going to ask the same question here that I've asked in every thread related to OWS, without ever getting a real answer to it.

Naysayers: Do you support the culture of corruption and croneyism which is so prevalent today in the international financial/political axis?

And if not, why are you mocking and attacking those who are demonstrating against it?

because just like skinheads who protest against immigration , their other , more looney views outshine any genuine concern the world may actually agree with.

Why should somebody who has a job / had a good job , who is educated and know what it is to be responsible and how to manage money , how to be a part of the community and makes something of themselves listen to people who live in tents, have no idea what work is, believe stealing to feed themselves is ok and spend whatever money their parents give them on rollies , drink , posters and other crap. The protestors may have a real concern about corruption and cronyism , and if they mentioned just that it would be fine, but always, out of the corner of the room comes talk about 'shell are taking all our oil' ' stop the corrib pipeline' 'capitalism is bad' 'eat the rich' 'fianna fail did 9/11' 'meat is murder' 'stop the fur farms' etc..... and as soon as any rational person hears these lunacies they just stop listening to anything these people have to say

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Eric Cartman wrote: »

because just like skinheads who protest against immigration , their other , more looney views outshine any genuine concern the world may actually agree with.

1Why should somebody who has a job / had a good job ,
2who is educated (thought you hated students?)
and know what it is to be responsible and how to manage money , how to be a part of the community and makes something of themselves listen to people 3who live in tents,
4have no idea what work is,
5believe stealing to feed themselves is ok and
6 and 7 spend whatever money their parents give them on rollies , drink , posters and other crap.
The protestors may have a real concern about corruption and cronyism , and if they mentioned just that it would be fine, but always, out of the corner of the room comes talk about 'shell are taking all our oil' ' stop the corrib pipeline' 'capitalism is bad' 'eat the rich' 'fianna fail did 9/11' 'meat is murder' 'stop the fur farms' etc..... and as soon as any rational person hears these lunacies they just stop listening to anything these people have to say

Lot of assumption and guess work there, Eric. Still, as I said earlier, the point is make you more comfortbale with your viewpoint than be accurate.

My name is URL

Plenty of people at the protests who do have jobs and are perhaps in a better financial state than many of those telling them to get a job.

Isn't Mary Robinson's son attending the Dame St. protest? He may or may not be looking for a cheerleader.