Sexton or O'Gara (part 2) for the Wales Game? *mod warning post 12*

Benny Cake

Sexton

danthefan wrote: »

ROG was appalling today unfortunately, completely the wrong call made in the halfbacks.

Atta boy Dan, you can always be counted on to have the knives out first....

Micky Dolenz

Sexton

Hind sight is 20/20

tolosenc

Healy

This forum and the Irish management team got it wrong. O'Gara didn't lose the game on his own, but his poor game was a big factor.

Micky Dolenz

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Hind sight is 20/20

It's not hindsight...

Note how many posters correctly predicted how the game and gameplan would work more than 5 days before the game.

Benny Cake

Sexton

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not hindsight...

Note how many posters correctly predicted how the game and gameplan would work more than 5 days before the game.

Bullsh*t! The poll went more than 2 to 1 in favour of O'gara..

Micky Dolenz

Sexton

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not hindsight...

Note how many posters correctly predicted how the game and gameplan would work more than 5 days before the game.

I take that with a pinch of salt. I trust the professional management team to make the calls with the information they have to hand. Information none of us are privay to.

It wasn't our half backs who lost us this game. We were out muscled and outplayed all over the park.

danthefan

Healy

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Hind sight is 20/20

Actually Micky I said before the game Sexton should start. I was 100% correct.

Samich

4 years until another world cup. So sick.

D_Red_Army

D_Red_Army wrote: »

Bullsh*t! The poll went more than 2 to 1 in favour of O'gara..

"certain posters" Search my post, or that of any of the actual logical rational and analytical posters on here who discussed how terrible a kick to the corners approach would be.

The problem is that this was clearly the message that was passed to ROG and Sexton.

The poll tells me little tbh, worthwhile analysis and opinions is hard to find on the net without the clouds of noise being expanded.

Corsendonk

danthefan wrote: »

Actually Mickey I said before the game Sexton should start. I was 100% correct.

Thats the signal to pull out all the posts you were wrong in:D

Micky Dolenz

Sexton

danthefan wrote: »

Actually Mickey I said before the game Sexton should start. I was 100% correct.

We still would have lost. Even Sexton couldn't have saved us.

Diabhal Beag

Sexton

I'm not sure whether O'Gara will retire post WC or after next year but he's been a fantastic servant to Irish rugby. Great player and like him or not he's been one of best kickers in the world. One bad game won't change that. As mentioned he wasn't the only awful player today who was pie-faced by a tactically astute Welsh side.

danthefan

Healy

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

We still would have lost. Even Sexton couldn't have saved us.

Possibly. Not sure how that excuses a poor selection though.

tolosenc

Healy

danthefan wrote: »

ROG was appalling today unfortunately, completely the wrong call made in the halfbacks.

In fairness, Murray did fine. ROG was awful.

Cork Exile

Sexton

Wales kept doing the same thing to Sexton when he came on as they did to O'Gara. Kept him isolated and having to take the ball into contact himself. I have a feeling it would have been a mare no matter which 10 was on.
Murray played well today, he has a well deserved claim on the 9 jersey for the future

Buceph

tolosenc wrote: »

In fairness, Murray did fine. ROG was awful.

In fairness, everyone was awful (Murray and Earls the least awful though.) I thought things would pick up when Sexton came on, but he fluffed his kicks and did nothing for the centres, as well as running back into cover on the Welsh try line. I think no matter who we would have played at out half, either of them would have let us down today.

Benny Cake

Sexton

danthefan wrote: »

Possibly. Not sure how that excuses a poor selection though.

Keep singing that aul song Danny boy, you're really getting the hang of it now...

tolosenc

Healy

Buceph wrote: »

Murray and Earls the least awful though.

Excuse me? At international level, this guy offers nothing unless he's set up in a straight sprint for the line. Can't defend, can't create. His tries cover up how inept he is at this level.

Phonehead

Healy

How anyone can claim Earls was good, has Frankie Sheehan got a number of Boards accounts. Earls just can't defend and his rugby brain is nowhere near international level

LFC5Times

Wouldn't of made a difference if we started Sexton over O'Gara - we still would have lost.

Either way Sexton is now the number 1 out half for Ireland

Hopefully some of the young lads out there can step up to the plate and give Sexton a run for his money as we could do with two good out-halves if O'Gara does retire.

Principal Skinner

LFC5Times wrote: »

Wouldn't of made a difference if we started Sexton over O'Gara - we still would have lost.

Either way Sexton is now the number 1 out half for Ireland

Hopefully some of the young lads out there can step up to the plate and give Sexton a run for his money as we could do with two good out-halves if O'Gara does retire.

Ogara was useless, sexton couldn't have made things worse. Ogara only plays well when he's under pressure from sexton, when he feels his place is secure his form drops. He's a selfish player

danthefan

Healy

D_Red_Army wrote: »

Keep singing that aul song Danny boy, you're really getting the hang of it now...

I assume you were a ROG cheerleader before the game? Hardly surprising you won't engage the issue.

Micky Dolenz

Sexton

danthefan wrote: »

I assume you were a ROG cheerleader before the game? Hardly surprising you won't engage the issue.

Whats to engage? The whole team played badly. Too many handling errors right from 1 to 15. Missed tackles to give up easy tries.

Our world cup dreams aren't even cold in the grave yet and the knives are out.

LFC5Times

Principal Skinner wrote: »

Ogara was useless, sexton couldn't have made things worse. Ogara only plays well when he's under pressure from sexton, when he feels his place is secure his form drops. He's a selfish player

Wouldn't of made a difference we still wouldn't of won with Sexton starting.

danthefan

Healy

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Whats to engage? The whole team played badly. Too many handling errors right from 1 to 15. Missed tackles to give up easy tries.

Our world cup dreams aren't even cold in the grave yet and the knives are out.

Rather than discussing the poor OH selection he's just made two comments pointed at me. Not that I especially care though.

And should we have a day of mourning or something before discussing the game?

molloyjh

Healy

I don't think Sexton would have made a huge difference on the day. Wales got their tactics spot on and we saw that when Jonny came in. To be honest though I don't know how people think Murray had a good game. His passing was no where near fast enough and just gave the Welsh defence that extra half second they needed to close down players. Sexton may have made a bit of a difference as a running threat but not sure how much that would have impacted the game.

Micky Dolenz

Sexton

danthefan wrote: »

And should we have a day of mourning or something before discussing the game?

Sounds like a plan.

danthefan

Healy

molloyjh wrote: »

I don't think Sexton would have made a huge difference on the day. Wales got their tactics spot on and we saw that when Jonny came in. To be honest though I don't know how people think Murray had a good game. His passing was no where near fast enough and just gave the Welsh defence that extra half second they needed to close down players. Sexton may have made a bit of a difference as a running threat but not sure how much that would have impacted the game.

Agree with that on Murray, he was very slow. Sometimes he didn't even make the breakdown.

For all saying Wales played the right gameplan, you must consider that we played directly into their hands. It's as if they said "Lets play Rock Paper scissors", and we said "We'll be Rock every time" before the start of the ****in thing!

SteelyDanJalapeno

Healy

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

We still would have lost. Even Sexton couldn't have saved us.

Thats impossible to say, you cant tell for sure, Sexton has the ability to change a game,

HC final?

LFC5Times

TiltedBrain wrote: »

Thats impossible to say, you cant tell for sure, Sexton has the ability to change a game,

HC final?

He didn't change it much when he came on today, anyway Sexton performs better for Leinster than Ireland.

NoelJ

LFC5Times wrote: »

He didn't change it much when he came on today, anyway Sexton performs better for Leinster than Ireland.

This is so true. Its terrible but I don't know why hes go the same 9 12 13, 1,3,7,8. It doesnt matter now Sextons our man.

SteelyDanJalapeno

Healy

LFC5Times wrote: »

He didn't change it much when he came on today, anyway Sexton performs better for Leinster than Ireland.

wasn't talking about him coming on, he needed to start, 17 minutes is enough time for much impact

danthefan

Healy

LFC5Times wrote: »

He didn't change it much when he came on today, anyway Sexton performs better for Leinster than Ireland.

He needed to start though. Wales had us under constant pressure for almost the enitre time he was on.

totallegend

danthefan wrote: »

He needed to start though. Wales had us under constant pressure for almost the enitre time he was on.

It's easy to say he should have started now, but what is clear is that he should have come on much, much earlier. For all the talk about ROG being mentally strong etc etc, he lost it today.

No threat in attack + poor kicking = haul his ass off

mattser

Thanks Wales. Now we can live without the hype and bulls**t.

danthefan

Healy

totallegend wrote: »

It's easy to say he should have started now, but what is clear is that he should have come on much, much earlier. For all the talk about ROG being mentally strong etc etc, he lost it today.

No threat in attack + poor kicking = haul his ass off

It was pretty easy before the game too.

totallegend

danthefan wrote: »

It was pretty easy before the game too.

Oh yeah, go back through my posts (if you're bothered) and you'll see there aren't too many posters who are more vocal on the Sexton side of the debate than yours truly.

Essentially, O'Gara was there to kick goals. When a) Wales didn't concede many penalties and b) the team, either by BOD's call or pre-planned tactics, turned down shots at goal in the Welsh 22, the logic for having ROG there was seriously undermined. When he couldn't impose the territorial game on Wales, he should have got the shepherd's crook.

phog

danthefan wrote: »

I assume you were a ROG cheerleader before the game? Hardly surprising you won't engage the issue.

Ireland were always going to lose a game in this W/C and guys like you will always be right on that occasion, no matter who started at 10 today doesn't account for all the other errors, turnovers and penalties.

ROG had a poor game but so too had our front row, or back row, our centres and in defense our FB.

danthefan

Healy

phog wrote: »

Ireland were always going to lose a game in this W/C and guys like you will always be right on that occasion, no matter who started at 10 today doesn't account for all the other errors, turnovers and penalties.

ROG had a poor game but so too had our front row, or back row, our centres and in defense our FB.

I wouldn't put the loss totally down to ROG at all, just pointing out he was awful and should not have been selected. It's very hard to win games if you don't have your best team on the field, which we certainly didn't today.

phog

phog wrote: »

Ireland were always going to lose a game in this W/C and guys like you will always be right on that occasion, no matter who started at 10 today doesn't account for all the other errors, turnovers and penalties.

ROG had a poor game but so too had our front row, or back row, our centres and in defense our FB.

ROG was the face of a poor gameplan.

He's damn good at what he was sent out to do, but had an off day today. Even if he'd been playing as well as he had been, the gameplan he was asked to play is not a viable option against a Welsh team that's been setup to play vs a kicking team for years.

The problem is deeper than ROG, and unfortunately he is simply the face of the tactic of kicking the ball away.

irishbucsfan

SOB

I don't blame ROG nearly as much as I blame the game plan, which I'm guessing was not his. He was atrocious, but the tactics were never going to work.

molloyjh

Healy

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I don't blame ROG nearly as much as I blame the game plan, which I'm guessing was not his. He was atrocious, but the tactics were never going to work.

Exactly. Gatland and his Welsh team showed us up for what we really are. A rugby team without a functioning back line. Nullify our forwards and we're left incredibly limited. The frustrating thing is the talent is actually there in the back line....

phog

danthefan wrote: »

I wouldn't put the loss totally down to ROG at all, just pointing out he was awful and should not have been selected. It's very hard to win games if you don't have your best team on the field, which we certainly didn't today.

I really dont think he was awful and why select him as your main focus when so many were poor?

laugh

SOB

phog wrote: »

I really dont think he was awful and why select him as your main focus when so many were poor?

He kicked out via touch twice, he knocked on, he was turned over in contact, any time he was he came in contact with a welsh player in defence he ended up on his arse. His half back partner, spent ages deciding what to do at the back of rucks and eventually made poor decision after poor decision, passing the ball to a static POC or SOB on numerous occasions.

GerM

SOB

He wasn't helped by what happened inside him and he was sent out to execute a terrible game plan but his execution of bread and butter aspects to him was very poor. Two kicks went dead. One of them went over the dead ball line about 20m away from where it needed to go. His last act of flinging a pass to nobody in our 22 summed up his day. I blame the game plan overall though. He was sent out there like a lamb to slaughter. I simply cannot believe we tried to kick the ball away against Wales again after how it went in the 6N. I thought from the start though he looked very uncomfortable. If you saw him at the anthems, he looked very, very nervous. I've never seen ROG look so jittery before a game.

mr.mickels

Sexton

I was watching the game on welsh tv. The commentary were generally unbiased, and both were quite surprised when O'Gara and Murray were taken off, said they thought O'Gara was doing fine and was the one Irish player you would want on the field to score points in the late stages, and also said they thought Murray was perhaps Irelands best player on the day. That was the verdict of the rugby commentary in Wales, quite a different view to some of the experts here who like a scapegoat, and imagine they would have done better themselves.

GerM

SOB

mr.mickels wrote: »

I was watching the game on welsh tv. The commentary were generally unbiased, and both were quite surprised when O'Gara and Murray were taken off, said they thought O'Gara was doing fine and was the one Irish player you would want on the field to score points in the late stages, and also said they thought Murray was perhaps Irelands best player on the day. That was the verdict of the rugby commentary in Wales, quite a different view to some of the experts here who like a scapegoat, and imagine they would have done better themselves.

Were they laughing when they said this or did they say Murray was Wales best player on the day? Not to be churlish but both of them had very bad days and there's very few that would argue otherwise. Best is probably the only one that performed up to his normal standard.

danthefan

Healy

phog wrote: »

I really dont think he was awful and why select him as your main focus when so many were poor?

This is the ROG/Sexton thread, what else would I focus on?

And he was terrible. Hopefully won't start for Ireland again.

totallegend

mr.mickels wrote: »

I was watching the game on welsh tv. The commentary were generally unbiased, and both were quite surprised when O'Gara and Murray were taken off, said they thought O'Gara was doing fine and was the one Irish player you would want on the field to score points in the late stages, and also said they thought Murray was perhaps Irelands best player on the day. That was the verdict of the rugby commentary in Wales, quite a different view to some of the experts here who like a scapegoat, and imagine they would have done better themselves.

Can you clarify 'Welsh tv'? Is this different from ITV who had Alan Quinlan as the co-commentator