How to beat Wales?

Sanity_Saviour

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

Gonna be close, but im sure if we score more points then them we can beat them.

That's a bit controversial now...

Brewster

Anyone think Deccie might give Trimble a chance? Earls has been good, but I still think Trimble is the better overall package and we are going to be tested out wide on sat.

ODriscoll

Luck on the day can count, so only a fool is totally certain on a sporting event of relative equals.

Ireland will not underestimate Wales, on the contrary with Kidney as coach. Fine tooth analysis.
Kidney has the coaching experience from HK and 6 nations for match ups just like this. With both Munster and Ireland, Kidneys experiences prove he knows how to slow the opposition to win a game. Australia had no answer to Ireland's tactics and one of the most exciting players in the world - O'Connor was sidelined.

Before we even qualified, I was reading Welsh supporters high hopes talk of George North. Some were talking in the exact same way as the over expectant England grand slam champions - about Matt Banahan.
Who was going to steam roller over the Irish during his walk in the park.
Banahan who to put the size of North in context - is 6 ft 7in and weighs well over 18 stones on a fit day.
O'Driscoll and Darcy nullified that threat to the point - that most of you will have forgotten it ever existed. Banahan has not been the same player since. Kidney and coaches organized that.


I expect with equal hope - that O'Brien and Ferris to show the way through the line and Kearney, Bowe and Darcy to back it up over the line. I see this going through the middle, not the wings as much.
I hope and expect Sean Cronin to have a fine game.
I called it right pre Italy match on RTE comments last time out, predicting Bowe and Darcy to play fine games, contrary to the expectations of many doubters.

Experience of the team itself and Kidney's game brain is Ireland's advantage - they still need to want to win more as a unit on the day and hope that luck stays with them.

Go on Ireland.

Webbs

[Jackass] wrote: »

We've dominated England as world champions, have been runners up a sickening amount of times in the 6 nations over the last 10 years, won multiple triple crowns etc., but only grand slams and world cups give you muscle on the world stage.

Doesnt this sort of negate your whole argument about Ireland being the cool headed experienced group of players who know how to win on the big stage etc?

andrewdcs

Junior wrote: »

The other thing that I would think that favours us over them is Kidney, Gatland is sure to put a foot in it somewhere along this week or open his mouth far too wide ..

I'm waiting for the inevitable Gatland gaff "Our scrum is much better than theirs" style throwdown.

Not that either teams players need any more bristle.

I cannot wait for this match.
hopefully it will end like this:
:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Jackass]

Noffles wrote: »

Thought we played more than Fiji and lost only one game in the warm ups...?

And your battle hardened bollox makes me laugh... throw your "obvious greatness" out the window... the game is 49 - 50 in favour of Ireland... and I only say that as you've beaten us more than we've beaten you...

On the day who turns up and who wants it more....

I think the old cliche of "who turns up wins" is the laughable part.

Ireland are definitely going to turn up. Leinster and Munster have turned up every time in the do or die, winner takes all encounters in the Heineken Cup over the last number of years (4 Heineken cups from the last 6, that's consistency in knock-out, high pressure rugby).

The boxing analegy is relevant, experience is worth it's weight in gold in contests like this. How to build up, prepare, from a coaches point of view, with a Grand Slam and two Heineken Cups under his belt, and the players, most of whom have medals to their name also, these guys are winners and know how to win and handle the build up, I think this is unknown territory to Wales, and in tight games (Toulouse v Munster, Leinster v Leicester HEC finals for example), these guys know how to get over the line.

I also think Ireland have the measure of this Welsh side.

The best example of what I'm saying is the Australia game, we just know how to win, what to do, and yes Wales have played expansive rugby and scored tries for fun, and I'm glad, as I think they have an inflated sense of security, and when the stranglehold of Ireland comes on, I don't think they'll know what to do, and they wont be able to do what they want to do, and that's where the experience comes in to play, Ireland will, and wont panic, and will keep the head, I think everything Wales plan to do, they wont be allowed to do, just ask Australia, with a far superior backline, they didn't know what to do, and resorted to a plan C that they later called "dumb rugby", because they couldn't have imagined how hard the Irish were and how much we strangled them.

And we know how to play the percentage rugby, chip away the scoreboard, and we've broken teams down well.

Warm-up games are a long time ago now, not even worth the mention you give them, and as I said at the time, Uncle Deccies plan was for match fitness only, I don't think anyone in the Irish camp cared about those results, and we certainly weren't going to show any of our hand - and to quote Brian O'Driscoll "This is knock-out rugby now, there's no saving things for another day any more..."

I respect Wales, I think they're a good side, but with all due respect, I think this is the stage of rugby with the big boys, and I don't see Wales having the ability to win the battle up front, I don't see Wales breaking down a massively impressive Irish defensive system, but I do see the Irish taking our chances when they come.

I'm as optimistic as to say Ireland will win by more than a score.

(On a side note, it's nice to be on the side of RO'G and PO'C and all the other lads for once. )

Noffles

[Jackass] wrote: »

I think the old cliche of "who turns up wins" is the laughable part.

Ireland are definitely going to turn up. Leinster and Munster have turned up every time in the do or die, winner takes all encounters in the Heineken Cup over the last number of years (4 Heineken cups from the last 6, that's consistency in knock-out, high pressure rugby).

The boxing analegy is relevant, experience is worth it's weight in gold in contests like this. How to build up, prepare, from a coaches point of view, with a Grand Slam and two Heineken Cups under his belt, and the players, most of whom have medals to their name also, these guys are winners and know how to win and handle the build up, I think this is unknown territory to Wales, and in tight games (Toulouse v Munster, Leinster v Leicester HEC finals for example), these guys know how to get over the line.

I also think Ireland have the measure of this Welsh side.

The best example of what I'm saying is the Australia game, we just know how to win, what to do, and yes Wales have played expansive rugby and scored tries for fun, and I'm glad, as I think they have an inflated sense of security, and when the stranglehold of Ireland comes on, I don't think they'll know what to do, and they wont be able to do what they want to do, and that's where the experience comes in to play, Ireland will, and wont panic, and will keep the head, I think everything Wales plan to do, they wont be allowed to do, just ask Australia, with a far superior backline, they didn't know what to do, and resorted to a plan C that they later called "dumb rugby", because they couldn't have imagined how hard the Irish were and how much we strangled them.

And we know how to play the percentage rugby, chip away the scoreboard, and we've broken teams down well.

Warm-up games are a long time ago now, not even worth the mention you give them, and as I said at the time, Uncle Deccies plan was for match fitness only, I don't think anyone in the Irish camp cared about those results, and we certainly weren't going to show any of our hand - and to quote Brian O'Driscoll "This is knock-out rugby now, there's no saving things for another day any more..."

I respect Wales, I think they're a good side, but with all due respect, I think this is the stage of rugby with the big boys, and I don't see Wales having the ability to win the battle up front, I don't see Wales breaking down a massively impressive Irish defensive system, but I do see the Irish taking our chances when they come.

I'm as optimistic as to say Ireland will win by more than a score.

(On a side note, it's nice to be on the side of RO'G and PO'C and all the other lads for once. )

Possibly the most condescending comment regarding this match that I have seen... I hope to f*ck this comes back to haunt you.

Fishooks12

Noffles wrote: »

Possibly the most condescending comment regarding this match that I have seen... I hope to f*ck this comes back to haunt you.

I suggest you educate yourself the meaning of the word condescending (Hint: I'm being condescending to you right now!)


The guy is confident (perhaps overly so). But he makes a few good points. I think it's a culture thing in Irish sport that were afraid to be confident.

Noffles

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I suggest you educate yourself the meaning of the word condescending (Hint: I'm being condescending to you right now!)


The guy is confident (perhaps overly so). But he makes a few good points. I think it's a culture thing in Irish sport that were afraid to be confident.

Condescending - patronizing superiority

If the below isn't condescending then I don't know what is:

I respect Wales, I think they're a good side, but with all due respect, I think this is the stage of rugby with the big boys

wixfjord

Noffles wrote: »

Possibly the most condescending comment regarding this match that I have seen... I hope to f*ck this comes back to haunt you.

You seem to be constantly surprised when posters here back their team and make logical arguments why they will win.

Ireland are favourites, have the motivation of the Phillips thing, will have far more support there, are coming into the game on the back of two of our best ever performances in the WC and, bar hooker, have selection headaches in key positions.

It's not arrogance, it's reality that we think we should win this one, so give over.

Noffles

wixfjord wrote: »

You seem to be constantly surprised when posters here back their team and make logical arguments why they will win.

Ireland are favourites, have the motivation of the Phillips thing, will have far more support there, are coming into the game on the back of two of our best ever performances in the WC and, bar hooker, have selection headaches in key positions.

It's not arrogance, it's reality that we think we should win this one, so give over.

Not really, it's arrogance and condescension I'm not too fond of...

And I have accepted that Ireland are the slight favorites in this match but don't feel the need to write war and peace to state this.

"the Phillips" thing.. a situation you could never of expected and you never know something like that could happen again, what does all the pontificating in the world make of that?

wixfjord

Noffles wrote: »

Not really, it's arrogance and condescension I'm not too fond of...

And I have accepted that Ireland are the slight favorites in this match but don't feel the need to write war and peace to state this.

"the Phillips" thing.. a situation you could never of expected and you never know something like that could happen again, what does all the pontificating in the world make of that?

For a Welsh person, you're certainly sensitive to arrogance and condescension, because that post was nothing of the sort!

Don't really understand your last point? Ireland were robbed of that game by a dodgy try, and so will obviously have that in their minds somewhere too. I'm sure it'll be mentioned this week.
That's not to say that Phillips was wrong to do it, it was of course the TJs fault, but I'm sure Deccie will use it as a motivation tool, if one was needed.

Fishooks12

wixfjord wrote: »

For a Welsh person, you're certainly sensitive to arrogance and condescension, because that post was nothing of the sort!

Don't really understand your last point? Ireland were robbed of that game by a dodgy try, and so will obviously have that in their minds somewhere too. I'm sure it'll be mentioned this week.
That's not to say that Phillips was wrong to do it, it was of course the TJs fault, but I'm sure Deccie will use it as a motivation tool, if one was needed.

You're on an Irish rugby board, it's obviously going to be biased so get over it.

I'm sure there are similar comments on the Welsh version of boards.

And even if you think his posts are "condescending", there better than your passive aggressive comments like "I hope this comes back to ****ing haunt you"

davegrohl48

I think the physical comparison of George North to Matt Banahan is fair in that they are backs as big as forwards.
But there the comparison ends. George North is a much more skillful and evasive runner with the ball in hand. Also North is much busier than Banahan in seeking out attacking opportunities.
If North is whithin 10 yards of our try line with ball in hand he will be hard stopped, he can skip around most of our forwards and would be hard put down by most of our backs. Even if they do get him down his momentum may carry him over the line. Finally North taking up the ball and passing/laying off to Shane Williams will be a very potent combination.

Noffles

wixfjord wrote: »

For a Welsh person, you're certainly sensitive to arrogance and condescension, because that post was nothing of the sort!

Don't really understand your last point? Ireland were robbed of that game by a dodgy try, and so will obviously have that in their minds somewhere too. I'm sure it'll be mentioned this week.
That's not to say that Phillips was wrong to do it, it was of course the TJs fault, but I'm sure Deccie will use it as a motivation tool, if one was needed.

I'll have to disagree on your 1st point.. as it's my opinion it was..

The point was simply, all the posts in the world stating how great Ireland are and how the big boys will beat the Welsh will not have any relevance at all if a Ref error gives the victory to... the welsh for instance..

And lets not turn this thread into a personal argument, as I'm sure we've done this before in the 6 Nats..

It's the RWC and there are very few Welsh posters on here so feel obliged to throw in my opinions...

Fishooks12

davegrohl48 wrote: »

I think the physical comparison of George North to Matt Banahan is fair in that they are backs as big as forwards.
But there the comparison ends. George North is a much more skillful and evasive runner with the ball in hand. Also North is much busier than Banahan in seeking out attacking opportunities.
If North is whithin 10 yards of our try line with ball in hand he will be hard stopped, he can skip around most of our forwards and would be hard put down by most of our backs. Even if they do get him down his momentum may carry him over the line. Finally North taking up the ball and passing/laying off to Shane Williams will be a very potent combination.

I agree that North has far more potential than Banahan but at the moment that's all it is. Running in scores against a Fiji team resigned to defeat is going to be a hell of a lot different to coming up against the best defence system in the tournament. You can bet the likes of Ferris and O Brien will be looking to have a cut off North. It's going to be a melting pot on Saturday and a huge step up for an in-experienced player

elguapo

I think Ireland's defence is the most persuasive case for us winning this game.

In our two games of real consequence in this tournament, we've not conceded a try.

Ireland have conceded one try to Wales over the last three meetings, and that thanks to some of the most astonishingly incompetent officiating I've ever seen.

Wales do have a potent backline, but I'd be very surprised if they scored more than one try to be honest, the Irish defence is one of the most impressive in the tournament.

I think we'll win, not by much, maybe 3-5 points.

GerM

North is on a different planet to Banahan in terms of awareness and skillset. His offloading, lines of running and handling are excellent. Banahan's.....are not.

Webbs

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I agree that North has far more potential than Banahan but at the moment that's all it is. Running in scores against a Fiji team resigned to defeat is going to be a hell of a lot different to coming up against the best defence system in the tournament. You can bet the likes of Ferris and O Brien will be looking to have a cut off North. It's going to be a melting pot on Saturday and a huge step up for an in-experienced player

He also has 2 tries against SA and 2 against Eng which isnt bad for a few internationals.
Apart from the tries he seems to make the right decisions and makes a lot of line breaks, however the Irish defence is as strong as he will come up against though it will be interesting if they try to hold him up in the tackle as his size will provide a big target for the Welsh forwards to drive forward.
I think the Welsh OH whoever it is will try to check the Irish backrow and get North coming through the centres probably at O'Driscolls outside shoulder with Roberts possibly as decoy s

BoardsMember

We have more leadership & experience.

I think our forwards just edge it. Just. They might be superior in the front row if Best does not play. Second row we have an edge. Back row we have an edge in ball carrying, but might lose out as we dont have an out and out 7. We definitely have way more experience in the back row.

Wales have more pace & physicality in the backs.

The Welsh game is a higher risk game than ours, which can go either way.

All in all, if our set piece goes ok, I think we squeeze through. If not, or if Wales are accurate with their wide game and we cant put pressure on it, we are going to struggle to stay with them.

simonmln

I think the fact we dont have an out and out 7 isnt that big, only due to the amount of work Heaslip is putting in on the ground. Because the other 2 are such massive carriers, I think he's been able to focus more towards this side of his game. I'm in no way an expert but this is how I've seen it.

If anyone has more knowledge I'd be more than happy to be educated in it.

BoardsMember

simonmln wrote: »

I think the fact we dont have an out and out 7 isnt that big, only due to the amount of work Heaslip is putting in on the ground. Because the other 2 are such massive carriers, I think he's been able to focus more towards this side of his game. I'm in no way an expert but this is how I've seen it.

If anyone has more knowledge I'd be more than happy to be educated in it.

I'd agree that Healsip has had to change his game a lot, he's had to become much more of a groundhog than the banrstorming ball carrier he made his name as. But he's still no Broussow/Pocock. Whether he can affect Warburton or not remains to be seen, if he cant then we will suffer.

simonmln

BoardsMember wrote: »

I'd agree that Healsip has had to change his game a lot, he's had to become much more of a groundhog than the banrstorming ball carrier he made his name as. But he's still no Broussow/Pocock. Whether he can affect Warburton or not remains to be seen, if he cant then we will suffer.

Ya, Id agree with that. Hopefully Warburons youth, the fact hes such a young captain, and the fact itll be cloe to a home irish game crowd wise, will help us out. The lads will have to be hitting rucks hard to keep him away.

JustinDee

BoardsMember wrote: »

I'd agree that Healsip has had to change his game a lot, he's had to become much more of a groundhog than the banrstorming ball carrier he made his name as. But he's still no Broussow/Pocock. Whether he can affect Warburton or not remains to be seen, if he cant then we will suffer.

Don't be too bothered about the opposition breakaway so much. The Welsh backrow will be up against the form backrow of the tournament ie. Ireland's.
Let them and Shaun Edwards do the worrying. Thats how the boys will be training this week. Once Wales have to commit more to the breakdown, for example, they open up and often without a sweeper.

irishbucsfan

simonmln wrote: »

I think the fact we dont have an out and out 7 isnt that big, only due to the amount of work Heaslip is putting in on the ground. Because the other 2 are such massive carriers, I think he's been able to focus more towards this side of his game. I'm in no way an expert but this is how I've seen it.

If anyone has more knowledge I'd be more than happy to be educated in it.

Pretty much spot on as far as I'm concerned.

Heaslip has been key to our back row so far. He is playing completely differently now than how he played a year ago. He's always been an excellent offensive defender, but now he's really focusing on that role because with O'Callaghan, Ferris, O'Brien etc. he doesn't need to stand in the 1st/2nd/3rd defensive positions where you need big bodies to put in big hits. He has more of a free role in terms of his defensive positioning and has been our most effective player at the breakdown because of that.

The advantage that breakdown specialists get from playing 7 is purely limited to being more free to get to the first breakdown or make the first tackle directly after a scrum. Heaslip loses that freedom by playing 8, but O'Brien is covering that role just as effectively.

Warburton is the best 7 that we'll have to play unless we make the final. He'll be able to pick his battles just like Heaslip has done. The big question is how to deal with that. I think we'll see increased physicality and slower ball.

gosplan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think we'll see increased physicality and slower ball.

deal

Podge_irl

Webbs wrote: »

Doesnt this sort of negate your whole argument about Ireland being the cool headed experienced group of players who know how to win on the big stage etc?

No, it just means they can't feckin beat France.

bamboozle

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Pretty much spot on as far as I'm concerned.

Heaslip has been key to our back row so far. He is playing completely differently now than how he played a year ago. He's always been an excellent offensive defender, but now he's really focusing on that role because with O'Callaghan, Ferris, O'Brien etc. he doesn't need to stand in the 1st/2nd/3rd defensive positions where you need big bodies to put in big hits. He has more of a free role in terms of his defensive positioning and has been our most effective player at the breakdown because of that.

The advantage that breakdown specialists get from playing 7 is purely limited to being more free to get to the first breakdown or make the first tackle directly after a scrum. Heaslip loses that freedom by playing 8, but O'Brien is covering that role just as effectively.

Warburton is the best 7 that we'll have to play unless we make the final. He'll be able to pick his battles just like Heaslip has done. The big question is how to deal with that. I think we'll see increased physicality and slower ball.

i dunno, i think we'll be able to cope with Brussow in the final....

andrewdcs

reiterate what was said before, we know this ref better... thats an edge these days. sadly. but first 10 minutes, examples of how its going to go at breakdown, scrum, and you can place your bets.

irishbucsfan

bamboozle wrote: »

i dunno, i think we'll be able to cope with Brussow in the final....

There's not much between Warburton and Brussouw imo. Brussouw will be a huge threat should we face him.

JustinDee

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Brussouw will be a huge threat should we face him.

Last time around, Sean O'Brien targetted and bullied him off the park.

Podge_irl

I'd genuinely be a lot more worried about Warburton then Brussow. Brussow would play a much more similar game to SOB, but SOB is just plain better at it.

Anyway, SOB and Warburton won't really be in direct competition. SOB will play his game and Warburton will play his. If anything, on the deck Warburton is more likely to be coming up against Heaslip.

irishbucsfan

JustinDee wrote: »

Last time around, Sean O'Brien targetted and bullied him off the park.

He came on at half time. I just don't buy that Ireland decided to target South Africa's biggest breakdown threat with a player who wasn't even on the pitch for the first 40 minutes. Not only that but the mechanics of our current back row is far different, I think if anyone "targets" him it will be Heaslip. Again I find that highly unlikely because I don't think you waste a back row forward by having him shadow an opposition player like that, a tactic that can be so easilly manipulated.

JustinDee

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He came on at half time. I just don't buy that Ireland decided to target South Africa's biggest breakdown threat with a player who wasn't even on the pitch for the first 40 minutes. Not only that but the mechanics of our current back row is far different, I think if anyone "targets" him it will be Heaslip. Again I find that highly unlikely because I don't think you waste a back row forward by having him shadow an opposition player like that, a tactic that can be so easilly manipulated.

That was his job when he played and he did it very well. Brussouw was in pieces afterwards and the Jaapies couldn't slow down Irish ball enough.

Ruckplay is a little different since then but even still in this hypothetical encounter, don't be surprised if Brussouw, this big deadly threat everyone keeps going on about, was worked out again.

irishbucsfan

JustinDee wrote: »

That was his job when he played and he did it very well. Brussouw was in pieces afterwards and the Jaapies couldn't slow down Irish ball enough.

Ruckplay is a little different since then but even still in this hypothetical encounter, don't be surprised if Brussouw, this big deadly threat everyone keeps going on about, was worked out again.

I think we'll handle him, but I don't think we will inform a player to shadow another. Any half-competent coach can take that tactic to pieces.

Also, if Sean O'Brien was introduced late and instructed to concentrate on Brussouw then I think it's quite obvious that the Irish coaching staff were reacting to his performance during the game, making him exactly the "big deadly threat everyone keeps going on about."

JustinDee

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think we'll handle him, but I don't think we will inform a player to shadow another. Any half-competent coach can take that tactic to pieces...

...by changing their own tactics. Dictating an opposition's gameplan is half the job done.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Also, if Sean O'Brien was introduced late and instructed to concentrate on Brussouw then I think it's quite obvious that the Irish coaching staff were reacting to his performance during the game, making him exactly the "big deadly threat everyone keeps going on about."

Same as bullying a halfback or cramping a 10. Its not rocket science and there are many ways to do it.
O'Brien took over from Ferris in the role and excelled. Brussouw constantly isolated and slowed down when in attack and beaten up in defence.

BoardsMember

Ehm, would it be premature to start a "How to beat South Africa" thread? If yes, then maybe it is premature to start talking about how SOB is going to handle a player that he wont face unless we win our quarter final and semi final of the rugby world cup, God that sounds good, and unless SA beat Australia and NZ, assuming the two players in question arrive at that game in one piece.

bamboozle

irishbucsfan wrote: »

There's not much between Warburton and Brussouw imo. Brussouw will be a huge threat should we face him.

i guess you didnt realise my post was tongue in cheek...:rolleyes:

shuffol

Think Wales are a little overrated at the minute. This notion of them being a free scoring side is based on tonkings of Namibia and a disinterested Fiji. They managed 2 tries in 2 games vs S.A. and Samoa. They're a good side but our pack suppressed a far more dangerous Australian backline. If we play near our best and avoid key injuries we should win by 7-10 points. My one major fear is a lineout malfunction.

thomond2006

When are the teams announced?

Podge_irl

Tonight at 0115 I believe.

I'm getting my indignation ready.

Webbs

shuffol wrote: »

Think Wales are a little overrated at the minute. This notion of them being a free scoring side is based on tonkings of Namibia and a disinterested Fiji. They managed 2 tries in 2 games vs S.A. and Samoa. They're a good side but our pack suppressed a far more dangerous Australian backline. If we play near our best and avoid key injuries we should win by 7-10 points. My one major fear is a lineout malfunction.

THe Aus pack was v poor and missing its two key players. the Welsh will pose far more questions of the Irish pack and will therefore be more difficult to nullify the welsh backline threat.

The_Kew_Tour

Ah lads come on Wales will be easy one really will..

We will beat them by at least 10 points. They ain't up to much lads...

We are in great form and they really have only looked good against poor sides.

some_dose

Team announcement is on Thursday night at 1am Irish time

thebman

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Ah lads come on Wales will be easy one really will..

We will beat them by at least 10 points. They ain't up to much lads...

We are in great form and they really have only looked good against poor sides.

I'm glad your so confident :P

I think this is a 50/50 game, could go either way. Simply depends who has more on form players on the day.

Can I have your house if your wrong on that prediction? :P

JustinDee

some_dose wrote: »

Team announcement is on Thursday night at 1am Irish time

It is actually tonight. Not thursday.
1.15am.

wixfjord

JustinDee wrote: »

It is actually tonight. Not thursday.
1.15am.

No hope for Best then really if that is the case.

.ak

Wales will not be easy. Not to mention that if Ireland start thinking about semi's or finals we've lost.

The Welsh have an awesome squad. I'm gonna watch through all of their wc matches again... I hope the lads are doing their research too!

LostPassword

Wales are a decent side who have come on enormously in the last year, but I still think it would take something freakish for them to beat us. I just think that we'll over-power them - I can't see where they are going to get the go-forward ball from to allow them to get their outside backs into space. Once South Africa got their best players onto the pitch (Du Plessis, Alberts) and went for a power game, Wales just had no answers and I forsee the same thing happening against us. Both teams are in pretty good form, but their pack are mostly good players and good athletes, but they just lack the power-freaks such as Healy, O'Connell, SOB and Ferris that we have. That would be enough on its own, but add in the fact that we have much more big-game experience, more match-fitness, a better age-profile and a past-master at knock out rugby at the helm, and it would be a huge achievement for them. Fair play to them if they can do it - they would be some team indeed to overturn so many important variables.

thomond2006

Trimble in the first team?