UK to discuss EU withdrawal referendum

biko

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

The chance of Westminster voting to allow this to go to a referendum is close to zero.

You're probably right but I hope that the pressure will increase the closer to Christmas we get.

Also there is already MP support:

Tory and Labour MPs are among 100,000 signatories of a new petition calling for a referendum on EU membership.
It comes as about 80 Tory MPs prepare to discuss ways of pressing for a renegotiation of the UK's position.

Conservative grandee Lord Heseltine has criticised the move, saying it is the equivalent of "lighting a tinder box".
The ex-deputy prime minister told the BBC talk of clawing back powers from Brussels at a time of economic crisis was "the last thing anybody wants".

By "anyone" he means himself, bankers and EU politicians.
Lord Heseltine is one of the most pro-European members of the Thatcher and Major governments.

StudentDad

mike65 wrote: »

Lockstep wrote: »

Please provide some evidence for the above. As it stands, it comes across as a 'mate told me X' post.

Here's an example - an illegal asylum seeking who killed a girl behind the wheel of a car and can't be deported as his human rights would be interfered with. Details here

You're bitching about marginal cases? Get off the stage! The law has to be applied regardless of individual cases.

If you found yourself before the courts you'd get your solicitor/barrister to find any legal argument to win your case - it is expected that they would.

The law applies to everyone no matter how despicably they are aledged to have behaved.

If you apply the maxim of 'well I don't like him - the law shouldn't protect him.' You don't have law, you have drum-head justice.

Not a route anyone with sense should consider.

SD

biko

oscarBravo wrote: »

only to hold a referendum on re-applying for membership within a decade.

oscarBravo wrote: »

Wanting something to happen doesn't mean it's going to happen. Thankfully.

Indeed.

Batsy

StudentDad wrote: »

Splendid Isolation worked when there was an empire. Leaving the EU would be a regressive step that would leave Britain politically, economically and militarily stymied.

SD

Yet more complete and utter tosh.

Britain is the world's 6th largest economy and has one of the world's most powerful militaries. Why does it have to be part of a union like the EU? It got along fine for centuries without being in the EU and will go along fine outside of the EU.

There are 204 countries in the world and only 27 of them - a measly 13% - are in the EU. And the majority of those 87% of the world's countries which are not a part of the EU have smaller populations than Britain has and they aren't suffering for not being a part of the EU.

It's a big wide world and that and Britain won't suffer for being outside Fortress Europe. Britain needs out of the EU and it needs out now.

mike65

StudentDad wrote: »

You're bitching about marginal cases? Get off the stage! The law has to be applied regardless of individual cases.

If you found yourself before the courts you'd get your solicitor/barrister to find any legal argument to win your case - it is expected that they would.

The law applies to everyone no matter how despicably they are aledged to have behaved.

If you apply the maxim of 'well I don't like him - the law shouldn't protect him.' You don't have law, you have drum-head justice.

Not a route anyone with sense should consider.

SD

I'm not passing judgement, I'll leave for you to do.

Batsy

Sand wrote: »

I got to say - presuming you are a British nationalist - what argument do you make to keep the UK unified when the Northern Irish, Scots, Welsh etc might equally say they dont want a London parliament making laws for them?

Why is it okay for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland to want independence from the UK but not okay for the UK to want independence from the EU? Why was it okay for the Republic of Ireland to gain independence from the UK but not okay for the UK to want independence from the EU? Stop being hypocritical.

And it seems to have escaped your notice that Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are not the only countries in the UK which aren't independent. England also isn't independent. And England is at a disadvantage compared to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland because each of those three has either its own parliament or assembly whereas England - unfairly and undemocratically - doesn't.

I want the UK out of the EU and I want England to have its own parliament.

Son Of A Vidic

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

What exactly would be the benefit of the UK withdrawing from the EU? Seems pointless entirely.

Autonomy, Independence, self-governance and biggest of all, the removal of a dangerous exposure to EU financial incompetence and mismanagement.

Batsy

Manach wrote: »

The British are one of the major contributors to the EU budget, and should they leave that would serious dent the EU finances.

A simple way to partially fix that would be for Ireland to become a net contributor to the EU budget rather than a net taker from the EU budget.

Batsy

stewie01 wrote: »

apologies, can we have a refurendum to kick them out of the eu

Considering that the British people want Britain out of the EU then Britain getting kicked out of the EU will hardly bother us.

Batsy

Nodin wrote: »

If indeed there was ever a time when one state was isolated from the troubles of its neighbours, its long, long gone.

I don't see why Britain should have to bail out the euro when it was wise enough not to join it.

professore

Batsy wrote: »

Yet more complete and utter tosh.

Britain is the world's 6th largest economy and has one of the world's most powerful militaries. Why does it have to be part of a union like the EU? It got along fine for centuries without being in the EU and will go along fine outside of the EU.

If it leaves fully the EU Sarkozy or his successors will waltz in and set up big tariff walls with the UK so it will be much more difficult to sell any products or services into Europe. This will hurt the UK's economy.

By the way, I don't see anything wrong with the old Common Market. Which countries in Europe really want to be part of an EU superstate ???? France and Germany. No one else.

professore

Batsy wrote: »

I don't see why Britain should have to bail out the euro when it was wise enough not to join it.

You have a valid point there. I voted for the thing at the time, I wish now I could take it back, but too late ...

professore

Batsy wrote: »

A simple way to partially fix that would be for Ireland to become a net contributor to the EU budget rather than a net taker from the EU budget.

I suspect if you add in the 50 billion we put into our banking system before we went bankrupt instead of foisting it on the ECB like we should have done then we could be considered a net contributor. Now there's not a hope of us becoming a net contributor for a long long time.

Batsy

professore wrote: »

If it leaves fully the EU Sarkozy or his successors will waltz in and set up big tariff walls with the UK so it will be much more difficult to sell any products or services into Europe. This will hurt the UK's economy.

That won't happen. Doing such a thing would only show the world what an extremely arrogant country France is.
But even if it did, not only would it be sick and childish to punish a country just because, in the 21st Century, it became a free, sovereign and independent nation but it would be also extremely ironic considering that the French didn't want Britain to be in the EU in the first place.

Twice in the 1960s - in 1963 and 1967 - the British Government applied for membership of the Common Market and twice Charles de Gaulle (who still hadn't forgiven the British for kicking the Nazis out of his country) told the British to sling their hook.

Britain needs to get out of the EU.

oscarBravo

Batsy wrote: »

Britain is the world's 6th largest economy... Why does it have to be part of a union like the EU?

I don't suppose it has crossed your mind that Britain's economy has benefited from EU membership?

If you're going to reduce it to something as simplistic as net contributions, don't bother replying.

Batsy

oscarBravo wrote: »

I don't suppose it has crossed your mind that Britain's economy has benefited from EU membership?

If you're going to reduce it to something as simplistic as net contributions, don't bother replying.

Britain's economy has not benefitted from the EU.

The EU, with all its rules, regulations, red tape and bureaucracy, actually STIFLES British economic growth.

Mena

Batsy wrote: »

Britain's economy has not benefitted from the EU.

The EU, with all its rules, regulations, red tape and bureaucracy, actually STIFLES British economic growth.

Can you give any examples of that?

I'm rather agnostic about the whole thing, but what would be interesting to see is a comparison of the pro's and con's produced by an unbiased source using facts and evidence. Could be interesting, but probably not achievable.

stewie01

Batsy wrote: »

Britain's economy has not benefitted from the EU.

The EU, with all its rules, regulations, red tape and bureaucracy, actually STIFLES British economic growth.

Doesnt Britian Export most of its goods to Ireland, an EU member. does that not count.

Also this http://www.debtbombshell.com/ ,but yea the uk can go it alone. pop your head back in the sand there.

Fratton Fred

professore wrote: »

If it leaves fully the EU Sarkozy or his successors will waltz in and set up big tariff walls with the UK so it will be much more difficult to sell any products or services into Europe. This will hurt the UK's economy.

By the way, I don't see anything wrong with the old Common Market. Which countries in Europe really want to be part of an EU superstate ???? France and Germany. No one else.

Surely a trade war would hurt europe as well.

How would Dell, HP, BMW, Mercedes, VW, Google etc take to having barriers put in place around one of their largest markets?

Like it or not, the UK leaving the EU would hurt the EU a fair bit.

It would hurt the UK as well though, so I doubt it will ever happen.

mike65

stewie01 wrote: »

Doesnt Britian Export most of its goods to Ireland, an EU member. does that not count.

Also this http://www.debtbombshell.com/ ,but yea the uk can go it alone. pop your head back in the sand there.

LOL! If Ireland (population 4.4 million) was the UKs (population 60 million)
was biggest customer it would be in serious trouble. I think you need to swap the markets around

edit I just checked you are right, funny how that is the case (imagined it would be Germany or France), by the way non EU membership wouldn't matter as the UK and Ireland would simply operate like say Norway and Ireland does.

Fratton Fred

mike65 wrote: »

LOL! If Ireland (population 4.4 million) was the UKs (population 60 million)
was biggest customer it would be in serious trouble. I think you need to swap the markets around

edit I just checked you are right, funny how that is the case (imagined it would be Germany or France), by the way non EU membership wouldn't matter as the UK and Ireland would simply operate like say Norway and Ireland does.

Where do you think all those Celtic Tiger era Range Rover Sports came from and its post Celtic Tiger successor the Nissan Qashqai?

I would hazard a guess and say the majority of cars in Ireland are made in the UK.

Batsy

A referendum vote on whether or not to leave the EU has been agreed by MPs as a survey, by pollsters YouGov for the Vote UK Out Of EU Campaign, also found that a majority of voters (51 per cent) would vote Yes to Britain cutting ties with Brussels for good and 62% of voters want a referendum on the issue..

Is this the beginning of the end of Britain in the EU?

VICTORY IN A BID TO QUIT EU


EU referendum vote has been agreed by MPs as poll reveals most Britons want out


Monday October 3,2011
By Macer Hall
The Daily Express


THE Daily Express crusade for Britain to quit the European Union scored a huge victory yesterday when MPs agreed to hold an historic debate on the issue.

It means Parliament will vote on whether there should be a referendum on Britain’s continued membership of the EU.

And pressure intensified on David Cameron over Europe last night when an opinion poll showed that a massive 62 per cent of voters believe the time is right for an EU referendum.

The survey, by pollsters YouGov for the Vote UK Out Of EU Campaign, also found that a majority of voters (51 per cent) would vote Yes to Britain cutting ties with Brussels for good.

MPs last night praised the Daily Express crusade for ensuring public fury over the spiralling cost and meddling of the EU could no longer be ignored by Westminster.

SIGN IT!!!! TO SIGN UP TO OUR PETITION FOR A REFERENDUM ON THE EU CLICK HERE

Tory backbencher Peter Bone said: “The key reason we are going to have this debate is because of the hundreds of thousands of people who have supported the Daily Express’s petition. Well done to the Daily Express for campaigning so hard on this issue.”

And fellow Tory backbencher Douglas Carswell said: “It is thanks to the Daily Express highlighting this issue and spearheading the campaign that this debate is being held.

“The European Union is a mess. We have got to let the people decide whether we stay in or leave.”

The Parliamentary debate, which will be held before Christmas, is being organised by the Commons Backbench Business Committee in response to a series of petitions on the issue, particularly the Daily Express’s 373,000-name petition calling for Britain to quit the EU.

And more than 33,000 people have backed a petition, organised by the Daily Express, on the official Government website calling for a national referendum on the issue. It could give the country its first chance to have a say on UK links with Brussels since the 1975 referendum confirming Britain’s membership of the Common Market.

Mr Bone, who is a member of the Backbench Business Committee, said: “MPs must be given a free vote and there should be no whipping by the Prime Minister or other the party leaders. This is a huge international issue and MPs must be able to speak out freely.”

Ministerial sources yesterday claimed that the vote would not be binding on the Government.

But a committee source said: “That is nonsense. This vote would be Parliament speaking and Parliament is sovereign. This vote cannot be ignored.”

And the YouGov poll yesterday made clear the strength of public feeling over Britain’s EU membership. The poll found that 68 per cent of those who voted Tory at the last election want Britain to leave the EU.

And 74 per cent of Tory voters want a referendum on Britain’s membership of Europe. It found that 50 per cent believe EU membership has been “totally negative” for Britain and 65 per cent are “totally opposed” to Britain’s involvement in any further eurozone bailouts.

The groundswell of Tories behind the referendum campaign yesterday sent a stark message to David Cameron on the first day of the Conservative Conference in Manchester.

And more Tories are due to speak out on the issue today at a conference fringe meeting organised by the Daily Express and the TaxPayers’ Alliance.

Senior Tory MPs and anti-EU campaigners will feature at the public meeting on “We Need To Talk About Europe” at the city’s Bridgewater Hall. But Mr Cameron attempted to brush aside the issue yesterday by insisting most people in Britain wanted the country to stay in the EU.

He said on BBC1’s Andrew Marr Show: “It’s not our view that there should be an in/out referendum. I don’t want Britain to leave the EU. I think it’s the wrong answer for Britain. What most people want in this country is not actually to leave the EU, but to reform the EU and make sure that the balance of powers between a country like Britain and Europe is better.”

Mr Cameron said that he wanted to use future treaties to negotiate the return of powers from Brussels to Westminster.

But he said that this was an ambition “for the longer term” and there was no immediate prospect of treaty changes to make it possible. It did not form part of the current renegotiation of treaties which will keep Britain out of the eurozone bail-out mechanism, he said.

Backbench committee chairman Natascha Engel, a Labour MP, said: “Given the crisis in the eurozone, this issue has become more relevant than ever. There is a clear majority of backbench MPs who want to debate this and we have to respond to that.

“The EU today is completely different from the one the British people voted to join in 1975. It is time to examine the position again.”

Mr Cameron enraged Euro-sceptics by claiming that “most people” in Britain did not want the country to quit the EU.

In his interview on the Andrew Marr Show, the Prime Minister claimed that an EU referendum was the “wrong answer for Britain,” adding: “What most people want in this country, I believe, is not actually to leave the European Union, but to reform the European Union and make sure the balance of powers between a country like Britain and Europe is better.”

But UK Independence Party leader Nigel Farage said of Mr Cameron: “He says he believes most people do not want to leave the EU but to reform it.

“How can he possibly know that without asking the great British public?”

He went on: “On the issue of the EU it is clear that the Prime Minister is no more than a confidence trickster.”

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/275155/Victory-in-a-bid-to-quit-EU

K-9

mike65 wrote: »

LOL! If Ireland (population 4.4 million) was the UKs (population 60 million)
was biggest customer it would be in serious trouble. I think you need to swap the markets around

edit I just checked you are right, funny how that is the case (imagined it would be Germany or France), by the way non EU membership wouldn't matter as the UK and Ireland would simply operate like say Norway and Ireland does.

Probably join EFTA:
50 years of promoting free trade and economic integration - EFTA

Don't know if that would be enough for British Nationalists though

djpbarry

mike65 wrote: »

Here's an example - an illegal asylum seeking who killed a girl behind the wheel of a car and can't be deported as his human rights would be interfered with. Details here

All of which has shag-all to do with the EU.

djpbarry

Batsy wrote: »

Britain is the world's 6th largest economy and has one of the world's most powerful militaries. Why does it have to be part of a union like the EU? It got along fine for centuries without being in the EU and will go along fine outside of the EU.

Then why did Britain join the EU?

Batsy wrote: »

There are 204 countries in the world and only 27 of them - a measly 13% - are in the EU. And the majority of those 87% of the world's countries which are not a part of the EU have smaller populations than Britain has and they aren't suffering for not being a part of the EU.

So all those countries outside the EU – they enjoy a similar standard of living to those in the EU, do they? If life outside the EU is so wonderful, then why are so many countries – Croatia, Iceland, Macedonia, Montenegro, Turkey, Albania, Serbia and Bosnia, among others - knocking on the door to get in?

Batsy wrote: »

I want the UK out of the EU and I want England to have its own parliament.

I’m tired of Westminster telling me what to do – I want Clapham to have its own parliament. That cool with you?

Batsy wrote: »

I don't see why Britain should have to bail out the euro when it was wise enough not to join it.

You’re aware that the pound sterling has devalued considerably relative to the Euro in recent years?

Batsy wrote: »

That won't happen.

It might, but even so, Britain would lose any influence over dictating the mechanics of the common market. You’re arguing that Britain should remain in the common market, but give up its influence over it. That makes no sense.

Batsy wrote: »

Britain's economy has not benefitted from the EU.

So Britain doesn’t trade with other EU states?

mike65

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Where do you think all those Celtic Tiger era Range Rover Sports came from and its post Celtic Tiger successor the Nissan Qashqai?

I would hazard a guess and say the majority of cars in Ireland are made in the UK.

True enough, I wonder do Sky Sports subscriptions count as an export?

mike65

djpbarry wrote: »

All of which has shag-all to do with the EU.

Read the thread and you'll see I posted the link.

djpbarry

mike65 wrote: »

Read the thread and you'll see I posted the link.

I saw the link. It's got nothing to do with the EU. Unless of course I'm missing something.

Nodin

Batsy wrote: »

I don't see why Britain should have to bail out the euro when it was wise enough not to join it.

You stated

The ones who are irritating are those like Ireland who bang on about how "great" the EU is and that we must remain members to get all the "advantages" that being in the EU entails whereas the rest of the world knows that the EU is sinking and will soon be dead. But if the British do the right thing and leave the EU then they'll have the last laugh when the EU finally goes below the waves taking Ireland with it.

I see no mention in there of the Euro, or it's bailout.

mike65

djpbarry

Well you should aim your comments at the right poster then! I merely posted a link that was sought re the Human Rights act. I passed no comment.

Anyway back to the issue of exports, stewie01 said Ireland was the largest export market for the UK and my quick google turned up a link that was in fact for the UKs food and (non alcoholic) drink sector (how ironic that Ireland is such a large importer of UK foods) anyway the big picture is closer what I originally thought (2009 figures).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/feb/24/uk-trade-exports-imports

1 UNITED STATES 33531
2 GERMANY 24760
3 FRANCE 17871
4 NETHERLANDS 17379
5 IRISH REPUBLIC 15295

Batsy

djpbarry wrote: »

Then why did Britain join the EU?

Britain thought it was joining a trading organisation. It didn't know that it would bizarrely try and become a superstate, a USE, and get rid of countries' sovereignties and consume them within an undemocratic "superstate." That's not what Britain signed up to.

So all those countries outside the EU – they enjoy a similar standard of living to those in the EU, do they? If life outside the EU is so wonderful, then why are so many countries – Croatia, Iceland, Macedonia, Montenegro, Turkey, Albania, Serbia and Bosnia, among others - knocking on the door to get in?

That's an arrogant, ignorant, Euro-centric way of looking at things and demonstrates the inward-looking nature of the EU and the Eurobots. 87% of the world's countries are outside the EU and many of them have high standards of living. Countries such as the US, Australia, Canada and New Zealand are outside the EU and they always top the lists of the world's most liveable countries.

I’m tired of Westminster telling me what to do – I want Clapham to have its own parliament. That cool with you?

I want the whole of England to have its own parliament, like Scotland, Wales and NI have.

You’re aware that the pound sterling has devalued considerably relative to the Euro in recent years?

So? I still want Britain out of the EU. This is the 21st Century and I want my nation to be a free, independent, sovereign, constitutional monarchy which looks outwards and forms relationships with countries around the globe rather than be a part of the inward-looking Fortress Europe. We need to concentrate on the global Commonwealth, rather than the inward-looking, Euro-centric EU.

You’re arguing that Britain should remain in the common market, but give up its influence over it.

I'm arguing that Britain should leave the EU completely. And it's not a "common market" anymore. It is an entity with bizarre aspirations to become an state and I don't want Britain to be a part of that state.

djpbarry

mike65 wrote: »

Well you should aim your comments at the right poster then!

It wasn't directed specifically at you – I’m just pointing out the Human Rights Act has absolutely nothing to do with the EU.

djpbarry

Batsy wrote: »

Britain thought it was joining a trading organisation.

I doubt that very much. The EU has always been a political project.

Batsy wrote: »

It didn't know that it would bizarrely try and become a superstate, a USE, and get rid of countries' sovereignties and consume them within an undemocratic "superstate."

An “undemocratic European super-state” can only come about through due democratic process. Strange that.

Batsy wrote: »

That's an arrogant, ignorant, Euro-centric way of looking at things...

No, it’s reality. And you avoided the question.

Batsy wrote: »

I want the whole of England to have its own parliament...

And I want the whole of Clapham to have its own parliament. That’s cool, right?

Batsy wrote: »

So? I still want Britain out of the EU.

Fair enough, but let’s not pretend that your wish has any economic basis.

Batsy wrote: »

I'm arguing that Britain should leave the EU completely.

But you still want Britain to have access to EU markets?

mcwhirter

stewie01 wrote: »

would this be sarcasm, in reference to the double standards held by people here against the situation up north.

anyway can we hold a referendum to have them kicked out of the euro zone. see how long they last going it alone. dont the uk have the second largest trade debt in the world only second to the US.


on a side note, anyone think its hilarious cameron pulling up to the conservative party conference in a beautiful new Jaguar. isnt jaguar/land rover owned by an Indian company.

So should Enda be in a de lorean then

Nodin

Batsy wrote: »

.................


So? I still want Britain out of the EU. This is the 21st Century and I want my nation to be a free, independent, sovereign, constitutional monarchy which looks outwards and forms relationships with countries around the globe rather than be a part of the inward-looking Fortress Europe. We need to concentrate on the global Commonwealth, rather than the inward-looking, Euro-centric EU.

..................

You are taking the proverbial, based on that paragraph.

srsly78

Batsy talking about "fortress europe" is pretty rich. First it's "forners tuk awr jawbs", then it's a fortress?

Duke Leonal Felmet

Batsy wrote: »

There are 204 countries in the world and only 27 of them - a measly 13% - are in the EU. And the majority of those 87% of the world's countries which are not a part of the EU have smaller populations than Britain has and they aren't suffering for not being a part of the EU.

Interesting. Where did you study your statistics degree? Only joking.

Anyway, the EU population at 2009 was only a measly 6% of the world, who controlled a measly 18% of the worlds GDP and on average earned three times as much as the average 'non-EU' world.

http://pwt.econ.upenn.edu/

The total volume of trade was in the region of $3.2tn in 2009, a 17% share of all world trade. That despite only having a measly 6% of the worlds populace.

http://stat.wto.org/CountryProfile/WSDBCountryPFView.aspx?Language=E&Country=E27

Sure who would want to be part of that trade network?

Measly. That's a funny word.

stewie01

mike65 wrote: »

djpbarry

Well you should aim your comments at the right poster then! I merely posted a link that was sought re the Human Rights act. I passed no comment.

Anyway back to the issue of exports, stewie01 said Ireland was the largest export market for the UK and my quick google turned up a link that was in fact for the UKs food and (non alcoholic) drink sector (how ironic that Ireland is such a large importer of UK foods) anyway the big picture is closer what I originally thought (2009 figures).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/feb/24/uk-trade-exports-imports

1 UNITED STATES 33531
2 GERMANY 24760
3 FRANCE 17871
4 NETHERLANDS 17379
5 IRISH REPUBLIC 15295

why must you lie mike

stewie01

mcwhirter wrote: »

So should Enda be in a de lorean then

No, Enda is driven around in a nice comfy German car, which represents a true reflection of Ireland. We know who are overlords are.

where as, Cameron like the rest of the English population likes to give the illusion that they are still a great independent nation, that have some sort of global influence on world events, when in fact the whole country is owned by and run by Russian, Asian, American and European company's.

caseyann

When i was watching earlier.I was hearing i am not sure if i heard correct.That the EU wants England to pay people who arrive off the plane or boat welfare? Never paid a tax penny in England and want them to be given all immediately?
I would say thats one incentive for them to get out.

Richard

Batsy wrote: »

A simple way to partially fix that would be for Ireland to become a net contributor to the EU budget rather than a net taker from the EU budget.

I think they've become a net contributor now.

Richard

caseyann wrote: »

When i was watching earlier.I was hearing i am not sure if i heard correct.That the EU wants England to pay people who arrive off the plane or boat welfare? Never paid a tax penny in England and want them to be given all immediately?
I would say thats one incentive for them to get out.

I think so, but presumably that will apply to all EU countries, not just the UK.

mike65

stewie01 wrote: »

why must you lie mike

I didn't - the figures are there to see. Clicky the linky.

oscarBravo

caseyann wrote: »

When i was watching earlier.I was hearing i am not sure if i heard correct.That the EU wants England to pay people who arrive off the plane or boat welfare? Never paid a tax penny in England and want them to be given all immediately?

You probably could have phrased that in a more loaded way, but I'm not sure how.

From what little I've seen, the EU is unhappy about the UK discriminating against other EU citizens by requiring them to undergo a habitual residency test before they can qualify for welfare. Unless I've misunderstood, the UK could satisfy the EU by doing what Ireland does, and requiring its own citizens to satisfy the same residency requirements.

I would say thats one incentive for them to get out.

There will always be incentives to get out. The question is whether those incentives outweigh the incentives to stay in.

stewie01

mike65 wrote: »

I didn't - the figures are there to see. Clicky the linky.

you did,

stewie01 said Ireland was the largest export market for the UK

and what i actually said was,

Doesnt Britian Export most of its goods to Ireland, an EU member. does that not count.

and before you think i edited my post, the edit was to put in the uks debt link.

apology??

Fratton Fred

stewie01 wrote: »

on a side note, anyone think its hilarious cameron pulling up to the conservative party conference in a beautiful new Jaguar. isnt jaguar/land rover owned by an Indian company.

About as hilarious as Dublin being packed with people celebrating an English beer I'd say.

stewie01

Fratton Fred wrote: »

About as hilarious as Dublin being packed with people celebrating an English beer I'd say.

or a staunch loyalist posting on an irish board.

Fratton Fred

stewie01 wrote: »

or a staunch loyalist posting on an irish board.

Very poor comeback to be honest.

Batsy

From what little I've seen, the EU is unhappy about the UK discriminating against other EU citizens

Ahhhh, diddums.

Batsy

Duke Leonal Felmet wrote: »

Interesting. Where did you study your statistics degree? Only joking.

Anyway, the EU population at 2009 was only a measly 6% of the world, who controlled a measly 18% of the worlds GDP and on average earned three times as much as the average 'non-EU' world.

http://pwt.econ.upenn.edu/

The total volume of trade was in the region of $3.2tn in 2009, a 17% share of all world trade. That despite only having a measly 6% of the worlds populace.

http://stat.wto.org/CountryProfile/WSDBCountryPFView.aspx?Language=E&Country=E27

Sure who would want to be part of that trade network?

Measly. That's a funny word.

Stop trying to make it look as though the 87% of the world's countries who aren't in the EU are poor nations inhabited by peasants compared to those in the wonderful, magnificent, wealthy EU. It's just sheer and utter ignorance and arrogance.

I'd wager £100 that people in the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan and other wealthy, non-EU nations get paid, on average, more than they do in almost every - or every - EU nation.

Of the ten most liveable nations of 2007, six of them were non-EU nations.