UK to discuss EU withdrawal referendum

Killer Pigeon

I agree with some of the views expressed by the likes of Nigel Farage but I think for small countries, like Ireland, leaving the EU is not a viable opinion at the minute. The fact that the EU guarantee free-trade between EU member state is a major boost for Ireland and is a major platform for multinational companies to invest in Ireland as they will have access the European common-market.

Musiconomist

Batsy wrote: »

UKIP got more votes in the General election than they did in the Euro elections (although they only finished fourth).

But, if you hate the EU, then it makes more sense to vote for UKIP in the Euro elections - where they will actually have a seat in the EURO PARLIAMENT and can put their views across to the EU every time they meet - than in the General Election where they'll only have a seat in the Commons and only see other British politicians.

Not if your goal is to leave the EU.

Musiconomist

Master and commander wrote: »

Are you for real? This has to be a troll you are on.

Are you seriously saying that we should just open the floodgates just becasue the british authorities haven't the spine to stop immigration into their own country. Have we not had enough of blacks, muslims and polish already sorry "foreign nationals" is the PC term.

I am in Waterford and the place is overrun by blacks. Both the UK and Ireland together have a duty to limit immigration and welfare tourism.

Now, presumably there would be an arrangement where say Irish or other English speaking whites could go to the UK, as our culture is essentially the same. I mean irish people integrate when they travel to the UK - they don't ghettoise and set up mosques and sh!t. The culture diff between Ireland and Britain is no bigger than culture diffs found in the Uk as a whole already.

Wow... Master und Kommander.

Batsy

Are you for real? This has to be a troll you are on.

Are you seriously saying that we should just open the floodgates just becasue the british authorities haven't the spine to stop immigration into their own country.

It's just that because the people of Ireland are so pro-immigration - or, at least, it seems like when I read this thread - then they would surely have no problem with Ireland's floodgates being opened and letting people from all over the world flood into their country to live off their benefits and get their traditional Irish pubs knocked down to make way for mosques and allow their country to become overcrowded.

And doing that, the English could then dump all of their immigrants onto Ireland - similar to how the French used to dump immigrants onto England - to stop England becoming even more suffocatingly overcrowded than it already is.

Do the Irish have a problem with this or do they think that only England should have immigrants flooding into it?

Batsy

djpbarry wrote: »

Tell you what. Why don’t you get on to your local UKIP representative and ask them where they feel they would be more effective – Brussels or Westminster.

They'd be more effective in Brussels. And thanks to the anti-EU views of the British people there are as many UKIP MEPs as there are Labour MEPs.

You mean this Lodge Bank Tavern? It’s not looking very mosque-like.

That photo was taken when it was still properly there. The pub is now an empty shell, awaiting demolition, to make way for a mosque.

One way or another, fish & chips was certainly not a British invention.

Yes, it was. Mr Lees was British.

(no point considering England in isolation in a discussion on immigration)

Why not?

Musiconomist

Batsy wrote: »

It's just that because the people of Ireland are so pro-immigration - or, at least, it seems like when I read this thread - then they would surely have no problem with Ireland's floodgates being opened and letting people from all over the world flood into their country to live off their benefits and get their traditional Irish pubs knocked down to make way for mosques and allow their country to become overcrowded.

And doing that, the English could then dump all of their immigrants onto Ireland - similar to how the French used to dump immigrants onto England - to stop England becoming even more suffocatingly overcrowded than it already is.

Do the Irish have a problem with this or do they think that only England should have immigrants flooding into it?

I think you're confusing pro-immigration with anti-racism.

Podge_irl

Batsy wrote: »

It's just that because the people of Ireland are so pro-immigration - or, at least, it seems like when I read this thread - then they would surely have no problem with Ireland's floodgates being opened and letting people from all over the world flood into their country to live off their benefits and get their traditional Irish pubs knocked down to make way for mosques and allow their country to become overcrowded.

And doing that, the English could then dump all of their immigrants onto Ireland - similar to how the French used to dump immigrants onto England - to stop England becoming even more suffocatingly overcrowded than it already is.

Do the Irish have a problem with this or do they think that only England should have immigrants flooding into it?

If your problem is with people from non-EU countries coming into the UK, then what on Earth difference does it make if you're in the EU or not.

walrusgumble

Batsy wrote: »

It's just that because the people of Ireland are so pro-immigration - or, at least, it seems like when I read this thread - then they would surely have no problem with Ireland's floodgates being opened and letting people from all over the world flood into their country to live off their benefits and get their traditional Irish pubs knocked down to make way for mosques and allow their country to become overcrowded.

And doing that, the English could then dump all of their immigrants onto Ireland - similar to how the French used to dump immigrants onto England - to stop England becoming even more suffocatingly overcrowded than it already is.

Do the Irish have a problem with this or do they think that only England should have immigrants flooding into it?

Batsy, we don't need immigrants to knock down our traditional Irish Pubs. Our Traditional Irish Pubs are almost dead. You call super pubs with 3 TV's and Radio blarring out generic ****e and you can't hear yourself think, traditional? The smoking ban and some publicans insistence of ripping their patrons off did not help. The British Pub scene has not really died, because of immigrants, has it?. How many active British pubs were knocked down in order to make way for way for mosques.

There is a Mosques down in Southern Part of Dublin, near Griffith College. You don't hear any news of lunatics. I think Ballyhaunis has a big Muslim Population. Aren't they only taking the place of those who left Ballyhaunis for places like Castlebar, Galway, Sligo, Dublin or out of Ireland?


I see some of your point on immigration. But you are arguing for all the wrong reasons and come across as a you know what. THe problem with that is, you may in fact make good point, (I don't really see them here) but no one will listen because some have agendas and others, may accuse you have certain tones, regardless if there is no evidence of it.

People seem to get the idea that the Irish Government is very lenient in dealing with Non EU's who have no IRish - EU family. That is/was wrong, its the enforcement of their deportation orders that is the problem.

The pro lot, just don't want to face up to the legitimacy and the country should, when EU law does not apply, be allowed to decide who to let in (ie work permit holders, genuine students, and when legitimately refused asylum send asylum seekers home if its safe). They always view it as emotional blackmail because of the Irish in America and Australia who are illegal. As if the American's give a damn about our immigration system, so long as its favorable to them. The Immigrants here, who complain about apparent double standards, are very quick to forget that the campaigning and canvassing to American Politicians in the 1980-1990's on immigration issues, not only helped the Irish (the main campaigners who actually did the hard work) but other nationalities.

Bottom line is, each EU state should proper control its borders and prevent illegal non eu's from moving to other states. If you think England has it bad, go and look at Italy and Greece and the huge problems they experience (and they commit serious human rights abuses) when dealing with the influx of asylum seekers. GO and check out the respectable sites.

Are economic non eu migrants still coming to Ireland?

walrusgumble

Podge_irl wrote: »

If your problem is with people from non-EU countries coming into the UK, then what on Earth difference does it make if you're in the EU or not.

He is worried that they can jump over to the South of Ireland, by simply popping over to belfast and getting a train / taxi down to the South. NO EU law problems

meglome

Podge_irl wrote: »

If your problem is with people from non-EU countries coming into the UK, then what on Earth difference does it make if you're in the EU or not.

I've said this to him twice already and he's yet to respond.

djpbarry

Master and commander wrote: »

I am in Waterford and the place is overrun by blacks.

If you think that’s bad, you should see the number of whites in Dublin.

Master and commander wrote: »

Now, presumably there would be an arrangement where say Irish or other English speaking whites could go to the UK...

Anglican white supremacy?

Master and commander wrote: »

I mean irish people integrate when they travel to the UK - they don't ghettoise and set up mosques and sh!t.

Yeah, there are no Irish pubs, Irish cultural centres or GAA clubs in the UK (or anywhere else in the world for that matter).

djpbarry

Batsy wrote: »

They'd be more effective in Brussels.

Why don’t you get onto the UKIP and see if they agree with you.

Batsy wrote: »

That photo was taken when it was still properly there. The pub is now an empty shell, awaiting demolition, to make way for a mosque.

Sure it is. Pray tell, how many other pubs in Lancashire are awaiting the same fate?

Batsy wrote: »

Yes, it was. Mr Lees was British.

I like Britain. I really do. But I have noticed a rather irritating reluctance among many of the natives to accept that Britain didn’t invent everything in the world.

Batsy wrote: »

Why not?

Because England is subject to UK immigration laws.

View

djpbarry wrote: »

Anglican white supremacy?

I presume you mean Anglophone (or Anglophonic)?

getz

is this turning into a ant-brit, anti-protestant thread ?,mods you should know better.

Dr Galen

getz wrote: »

is this turning into a ant-brit, anti-protestant thread ?,mods you should know better.

and you should know that if you have a problem with a post, then click on the report post button

When it comes to racism and/or sectariamism, I've always believed that it's better to let such people show themselves up for what they are, and to allow good, rational, sane people the opportunity to disprove the arguments that they put forward. It's by doing this, that you can defeat that agenda

Cheers

DrG

djpbarry

View wrote: »

I presume you mean Anglophone (or Anglophonic)?

Oops.

Apologies to the Church of England and all it's members.

getz

djpbarry wrote: »

Oops.

Apologies to the Church of England and all it's members.

i have no problem with your posts djbarry,its just that people are trying to change and use the thread for their own agenda,i know by the polls in the uk[angus reid poll] showed that 48% of UK citizens wanting to leave the EU,compared to just 27% wishing to stay in it.its no good goverments saying,;we know better than you,that is the first step to dictatorship,and are we not soppose to be a democratic country ?

Musiconomist

getz wrote: »

is this turning into a ant-brit, anti-protestant thread ?,mods you should know better.

Quite funny that you highlight the questionable anti British/Protestant comments, rather than the numerous anti black or anti Muslim comments.

getz

Musiconomist wrote: »

Quite funny that you highlight the questionable anti British/Protestant comments, rather than the numerous anti black or anti Muslim comments.

most blacks and asians in the UK are british,by the way i am british/catholic,

seamus

Batsy wrote: »

England: 395

As you can see, England is suffocatingly and claustrophobically overcrowded

Sorry, just to pull this back a bit, if you remove the London Urban Zone from the equation, England's density drops to 325 people per square kilometre.

You're overestimating what "claustrophobically overcrowded" is.

A single square kilometre is 1 million square metres. You could house 4,000 people on this land and give each person (not each family) nearly one-sixteenth of an acre (250 sq.m.) on which to live. That is a huge chunk of land - enough to build a decent two-storey family home and have a good garden both front and back. Granted, you would need a good chunk of this land for access roads, but 400 people per square kilometere isn't even close to overcrowded or squashed, never mind claustrophobically so.

Musiconomist

getz wrote: »

most blacks and asians in the UK are british,by the way i am british/catholic,

Yeah, fair enough. I think that black and asian people would be less annoyed about being discriminated against for their country than their colour/religion.

It appears on this thread that it is ok to be anti EU, but not anti British. I am neither, just to be clear.

getz

Musiconomist wrote: »

Yeah, fair enough. I think that black and asian people would be less annoyed about being discriminated against for their country than their colour/religion.

It appears on this thread that it is ok to be anti EU, but not anti British. I am neither, just to be clear.

the thread is about the citizens of the UK pushing for a referendum to leave the EU,it is clear by the polls that the EU is not [and never was] liked by most britons,so it is OK for them to be anti-EU,[ quote;laurel and hardy,its a fine mess you got me into]

getz

seamus wrote: »

Sorry, just to pull this back a bit, if you remove the London Urban Zone from the equation, England's density drops to 325 people per square kilometre.

You're overestimating what "claustrophobically overcrowded" is.

A single square kilometre is 1 million square metres. You could house 4,000 people on this land and give each person (not each family) nearly one-sixteenth of an acre (250 sq.m.) on which to live. That is a huge chunk of land - enough to build a decent two-storey family home and have a good garden both front and back. Granted, you would need a good chunk of this land for access roads, but 400 people per square kilometere isn't even close to overcrowded or squashed, never mind claustrophobically so.

10 years ago i worked as a security manager in the salford shopping center,the area around it has high rise council flats,the council management always delighted in telling me,that they had the largest population living,in the sq mile than any city in europe , :P as people who come to live in the UK always head for the larger towns and cities,i would say yes it is overcrowded.

Batsy

seamus wrote: »

Sorry, just to pull this back a bit, if you remove the London Urban Zone from the equation, England's density drops to 325 people per square kilometre.

London is a part of England and therefore it stays in the equation.

But even if we do remove London from the equation 325 people per square kilometre (I don't know what that is in proper measures - people per square mile) is STILL overcrowded and we still can't afford to take in more immigrants.

Batsy

djpbarry wrote: »

Why don’t you get onto the UKIP and see if they agree with you.

Commonsense dictates that UKIP would prefer to have seats in Brussels than Westminster. In Brussels they can stand up in the European Parliament and tell other MEPs face to face what they think of the EU and can influence Brussels. They can't do that if they are mere MPs.

Sure it is. Pray tell, how many other pubs in Lancashire are awaiting the same fate?

How do I know the answer to that? However, the number of pubs around the country is decreasing whilst the number of mosques is rapidly increasing. That is a terrible state of affairs.

Britain didn’t invent everything in the world.

It invented almost all of the world's major and most important inventions.

Here are some British inventions and discoveries:

The British invented the television, the telephone, the computer, the World Wide Web, the jet engine, the trains and railways, the lawnmower, the Christmas card, the Valentine card, the postage stamp, the pencil, the clockwork radio, the cardiac pacemaker, sharthand, mobile phone text messaging, the typewriter, HTTP, HTML, DNA fingerprinting, iris recognition, the adjustable spanner, the gas turbine, the internal combustion engine, the lighbulb, the iron bridge, the hydraulic crane, football, rugby, cricket, golf, tennis, table tennis, hockey, badminton, modern boxing, darts, snooker, rounders, bowls, the modern Olympics, the Paralympics, the Lonsdale Belt, polo, Thoroughbred Horseracing, the tank, the fighter aircraft, the Dreadnought, the Bouncing Bomb, the depth charge, the stun grenade, the rubber band, the tin can, the lighswitch, the dishwasher, the electric toaster, the mousetrap, the corkscrew, the tin can, the fire extinguisher, the microchip, the wind tunnel, the concertina, the tuning fork, the motion picture camera, the movie projector, cinematography, the mathematical equals sign, calculus, the Faraday cage, infrared radiation, holography, the discovery of gravity, evolution, oxygen, the atom, the electron, the proton, the neutron, dinosaurs, Uranus, Triton, the planetarium, spiral galaxies, the structure of DNA, the cat's eye, the seat belt, traffic lights, the hovercraft, the lifeboat, the sextant, the diving bell, the hydrofoil, the screw propellor, SS Great Britain - the world's first steam-powered, screw propeller-driven passenger liner with an iron hull, the rubber balloon, plastic, plasticene, carbonated soft drinks, the friction match, the arts festival, the music festival, the literary festival, the Metric system, the railway ticket, the Boy Scouts, the Venn Diagram, bangers and mash, fish and chips, black pudding, bubble and squeak, cheddar cheese, the Cornish pasty, the Kendal mint cake, jellied eels, ice cream, Lancashire hotpot, Marmite, the pancake, the pork pie, the Scotch egg, gravy, Yorkshire pudding, Sunday Roast, Toad in the Hole, Shepherd's Pie and the sandwich.

And the scary thing is, that about 99% of those inventions and discoveries came from Englishmen. I've not even mentioned the discoveries made by the Scots and Welsh.

Because England is subject to UK immigration laws.

Those laws are wrong and need to be changed. Immigration into England needs to be cut drastically or stopped altogether.

djpbarry

Batsy wrote: »

But even if we do remove London from the equation 325 people per square kilometre (I don't know what that is in proper measures - people per square mile) is STILL overcrowde...

Maybe you could do us all a favour and tell us what a reasonable figure is for population density?

Batsy wrote: »

Commonsense dictates that UKIP would prefer to have seats in Brussels than Westminster.

Common sense is something that has been distinctly lacking from your posts.

Batsy wrote: »

In Brussels they can stand up in the European Parliament and tell other MEPs face to face what they think of the EU and can influence Brussels. They can't do that if they are mere MPs.

Right. Because Westminster has no influence in the EU? If The UK wishes to leave the EU, that process has to begin in Westminster, not Brussels.

Batsy wrote: »

...the number of pubs around the country is decreasing...

Is it? If so, is this trend directly attributable to immigration?

Batsy wrote: »

It invented almost all of the world's major and most important inventions.

Thank you for illustrating my point beautifully.

whatstherush

Batsy wrote: »

the Bouncing Bomb

, I'd say you go to bed watching the Dam Busters every night, Batsy.

marienbad

whatstherush wrote: »

, I'd say you go to bed watching the Dam Busters every night, Batsy.

an lets not forget the concentration camp as we are at it Batsy

oscarBravo

Batsy wrote: »

...325 people per square kilometre (I don't know what that is in proper measures - people per square mile) is STILL overcrowded...

"I don't need facts. I have opinions!"

Thrill

http://news.sky.com/home/politics/article/16092525

Europe Referendum Debate Brought Forward


A Commons vote on whether to stage a referendum on Britain's future in the European Union has been brought forward three days.


The debate, which was originally scheduled for next Thursday October 27, will now take place on Monday.


Tory backbenchers will propose a national referendum on if, and to what extent, the UK should remain part of the European Union.
The vote is not binding but if passed would put enormous pressure on the Prime Minister to respect the wish of the Commons and seek public approval.


It is believed Downing Street requested the change to allow senior ministers including Foreign Secretary William Hague to attend.



During Wednesday's Prime Minister's Questions, David Cameron said: "The right answer is not to hold a referendum willy nilly in this parliament when we have got so much to do to get Europe to sort out its problems."


The vote was ordered by the Backbench Business Committee after receiving a public petition with more than 100,000 signatures.

The referendum will ask whether the UK should remain in the EU, leave it, or "re-negotiate the terms of its membership in order to create a new relationship based on trade and co-operation".


Critics have suggested that the change of date is designed to stifle growing support for the referendum.


UK Independence Party leader Nigel Farage said the move "smacks of blind panic in Downing Street".


He said: "The plain fact is that the Prime Minister is horrified at the momentum that is growing across the country for such a vote.
"Despite him ordering a three-line whip, he does not have the confidence that it will work without him there to twist arms personally.


"Rather than delay the vote until he had returned from the Commonwealth meeting he has brought it forward.


"He has done this simply to try to stem the flow of ordinary members of the public trying to persuade their so-called representatives to do just that, represent their views."

K-9

Hillsborough got a Westminster debate with 140,000 online signatures, needs 100,000 to get considered.

A referendum on Britain leaving the EU has 34,000.

Musiconomist

Batsy wrote: »

Here are some British inventions and discoveries:

The British invented the television, the telephone, the computer, the World Wide Web, the jet engine, the trains and railways, the lawnmower, the Christmas card, the Valentine card, the postage stamp, the pencil, the clockwork radio, the cardiac pacemaker, sharthand, mobile phone text messaging, the typewriter, HTTP, HTML, DNA fingerprinting, iris recognition, the adjustable spanner, the gas turbine, the internal combustion engine, the lighbulb, the iron bridge, the hydraulic crane, football, rugby, cricket, golf, tennis, table tennis, hockey, badminton, modern boxing, darts, snooker, rounders, bowls, the modern Olympics, the Paralympics, the Lonsdale Belt, polo, Thoroughbred Horseracing, the tank, the fighter aircraft, the Dreadnought, the Bouncing Bomb, the depth charge, the stun grenade, the rubber band, the tin can, the lighswitch, the dishwasher, the electric toaster, the mousetrap, the corkscrew, the tin can, the fire extinguisher, the microchip, the wind tunnel, the concertina, the tuning fork, the motion picture camera, the movie projector, cinematography, the mathematical equals sign, calculus, the Faraday cage, infrared radiation, holography, the discovery of gravity, evolution, oxygen, the atom, the electron, the proton, the neutron, dinosaurs, Uranus, Triton, the planetarium, spiral galaxies, the structure of DNA, the cat's eye, the seat belt, traffic lights, the hovercraft, the lifeboat, the sextant, the diving bell, the hydrofoil, the screw propellor, SS Great Britain - the world's first steam-powered, screw propeller-driven passenger liner with an iron hull, the rubber balloon, plastic, plasticene, carbonated soft drinks, the friction match, the arts festival, the music festival, the literary festival, the Metric system, the railway ticket, the Boy Scouts, the Venn Diagram, bangers and mash, fish and chips, black pudding, bubble and squeak, cheddar cheese, the Cornish pasty, the Kendal mint cake, jellied eels, ice cream, Lancashire hotpot, Marmite, the pancake, the pork pie, the Scotch egg, gravy, Yorkshire pudding, Sunday Roast, Toad in the Hole, Shepherd's Pie and the sandwich.

Personally, I wouldnt take credit for that one.

seamus

Batsy wrote: »

But even if we do remove London from the equation 325 people per square kilometre (I don't know what that is in proper measures - people per square mile) is STILL overcrowded and we still can't afford to take in more immigrants.

325 per sq. kilometre is three-quarters of an acre per person in ye olde backwards measures.

A family of four would occupy two football pitches. Yeah, claustrophobic.

Killer Pigeon

K-9 wrote: »

Hillsborough got a Westminster debate with 140,000 online signatures, needs 100,000 to get considered.

A referendum on Britain leaving the EU has 34,000.

I'm sure that there are plenty of Britons with an online connection who are for bringing forth this sort of referendum.

Musiconomist

Batsy wrote: »

Commonsense dictates that UKIP would prefer to have seats in Brussels than Westminster. In Brussels they can stand up in the European Parliament and tell other MEPs face to face what they think of the EU and can influence Brussels. They can't do that if they are mere MPs.



How do I know the answer to that? However, the number of pubs around the country is decreasing whilst the number of mosques is rapidly increasing. That is a terrible state of affairs.



It invented almost all of the world's major and most important inventions.

Here are some British inventions and discoveries:

The British invented the television, the telephone, the computer, the World Wide Web, the jet engine, the trains and railways, the lawnmower, the Christmas card, the Valentine card, the postage stamp, the pencil, the clockwork radio, the cardiac pacemaker, sharthand, mobile phone text messaging, the typewriter, HTTP, HTML, DNA fingerprinting, iris recognition, the adjustable spanner, the gas turbine, the internal combustion engine, the lighbulb, the iron bridge, the hydraulic crane, football, rugby, cricket, golf, tennis, table tennis, hockey, badminton, modern boxing, darts, snooker, rounders, bowls, the modern Olympics, the Paralympics, the Lonsdale Belt, polo, Thoroughbred Horseracing, the tank, the fighter aircraft, the Dreadnought, the Bouncing Bomb, the depth charge, the stun grenade, the rubber band, the tin can, the lighswitch, the dishwasher, the electric toaster, the mousetrap, the corkscrew, the tin can, the fire extinguisher, the microchip, the wind tunnel, the concertina, the tuning fork, the motion picture camera, the movie projector, cinematography, the mathematical equals sign, calculus, the Faraday cage, infrared radiation, holography, the discovery of gravity, evolution, oxygen, the atom, the electron, the proton, the neutron, dinosaurs, Uranus, Triton, the planetarium, spiral galaxies, the structure of DNA, the cat's eye, the seat belt, traffic lights, the hovercraft, the lifeboat, the sextant, the diving bell, the hydrofoil, the screw propellor, SS Great Britain - the world's first steam-powered, screw propeller-driven passenger liner with an iron hull, the rubber balloon, plastic, plasticene, carbonated soft drinks, the friction match, the arts festival, the music festival, the literary festival, the Metric system, the railway ticket, the Boy Scouts, the Venn Diagram, bangers and mash, fish and chips, black pudding, bubble and squeak, cheddar cheese, the Cornish pasty, the Kendal mint cake, jellied eels, ice cream, Lancashire hotpot, Marmite, the pancake, the pork pie, the Scotch egg, gravy, Yorkshire pudding, Sunday Roast, Toad in the Hole, Shepherd's Pie and the sandwich.

And the scary thing is, that about 99% of those inventions and discoveries came from Englishmen. I've not even mentioned the discoveries made by the Scots and Welsh.




Those laws are wrong and need to be changed. Immigration into England needs to be cut drastically or stopped altogether.

Just on the above, Batsy, do you realise that the nationalism you express for England borders on irrational fanaticism? The implied superiority echoes German patriotism pre WWII (not Nazism specifically, closer to Aryan propoganda).

I dont deny that England has been the home of industrial revolution and at the heart of a lot of other great achievements. But is/should that be a factor in implementing policy, or international politics?

Batsy

K-9 wrote: »

A referendum on Britain leaving the EU has 34,000.

There have been several e-petitions calling for a referendum on whether or not Britain should leave the EU. There are a few on the e-petitions website right now.

At least one of the e-petitions calling for a referendum on whether or not Britain should leave the EU has received the required 100,000 votes for it to be debated in parliament and therefore has been taken off the website.

The fact that there have been several e-petitions on that subject shows the overwhelming public support for the referendum.

Batsy

Musiconomist wrote: »

Just on the above, Batsy, do you realise that the nationalism you express for England borders on irrational fanaticism?

Nope. And the reason I don't is because it doesn't border on irrational fanaticism.

Batsy

djpbarry wrote: »

Maybe you could do us all a favour and tell us what a reasonable figure is for population density?

A lot lower than what England's is now.

Common sense is something that has been distinctly lacking from your posts.

Commonsense has been lacking in the posts of those who believe immigrants should continue to be allowed to flood into an already very overcrowded country.

Right. Because Westminster has no influence in the EU? If The UK wishes to leave the EU, that process has to begin in Westminster, not Brussels.

The process of Britain's withdrawal from the EUSSR will begin when we have voted to leave the EUSSR in the referendum.

Batsy

whatstherush wrote: »

, I'd say you go to bed watching the Dam Busters every night, Batsy.

It was, of course, the British engineer Barnes Wallis who invented the Bouncing Bomb.

Batsy

marienbad wrote: »

an lets not forget the concentration camp as we are at it Batsy

Absolute codswallop.

The first concentration camps were created in, ironically, Poland in the 18th century, during the Bar Confederation rebellion, when the Russian Empire established three concentration camps for Polish rebel captives awaiting deportation to Siberia.

K-9

Batsy wrote: »

There have been several e-petitions calling for a referendum on whether or not Britain should leave the EU. There are a few on the e-petitions website right now.

At least one of the e-petitions calling for a referendum on whether or not Britain should leave the EU has received the required 100,000 votes for it to be debated in parliament and therefore has been taken off the website.

The fact that there have been several e-petitions on that subject shows the overwhelming public support for the referendum.

Strange, I was looking at the official site and I couldn't find it, Hillsborough was on it.

So, have they proposed a debate then?

marienbad

Batsy wrote: »

Absolute codswallop.

The first concentration camps were created in, ironically, Poland in the 18th century, during the Bar Confederation rebellion, when the Russian Empire established three concentration camps for Polish rebel captives awaiting deportation to Siberia.

you are getting boer-ing now Batsy

FreudianSlippers

Batsy wrote: »

It invented almost all of the world's major and most important inventions.

Here are some British inventions and discoveries:

The British invented the television,

A German, Paul Nipkow, proposed and patented the first electromechanical television system in 1884. However, it was not until 1907 that developments in amplification tube technology, by Lee DeForest (American) and Arthur Korn (German) among others, made the design practical.
Arguably the first "modern" design of the current TV is created and patented by American, Philo Farnsworth.

the telephone,

Alexander Graham Bell (Scottish) is credited as the inventor of the modern telephone, however, its components were thought of and many unsuccessful types of telephone were invented by others prior to Bell.

Just in case you think my "gotcha" of it being Scottish instead of English is too pedantic; Italian Antonio Meucci was recognized for his pioneering work on the telephone by the United States House of Representatives in 2002. The resolution stated that "if Meucci had been able to pay the $10 fee to maintain the caveat after 1874, no patent could have been issued to Bell." No such patent could have issued to Bell in March 1876. If Meucci had renewed his caveat, he would have been given an opportunity to prove to the examiner that the device described in his caveat was the electromagnetic telephone described in Bell's patent application.

Technically this implies that Meucci invented the modern telephone in 1854.

the computer,

Technically, analogue computers have been around since the Greek astrolabe of 150 B.C.

Frenchman, Charles Xavier Thomas created the first successful, mass-produced mechanical calculator in the 1800s.

American, George Stibitz is internationally recognized as one of the fathers of the modern digital computer. While working at Bell Labs in November 1937, Stibitz invented and built a relay-based calculator that he dubbed the "Model K" (for "kitchen table", on which he had assembled it), which was the first to calculate using binary form.

If you want to get really specific and talk about 3rd generation computers (i.e. those with microprocessors) the integrated circuit was invented by two Americans and the microprocessor invented by Intel.

the World Wide Web, HTTP, HTML,

I presume you're talking about ENQUIRE which evolved into the WWW, written by Tim Berners-Lee (English) - technically created while working at CERN and under CERN supervision. In accordance with employment law unfortunately this is CERN's invention.

I'll give you 3/4 invention on that one though.

the jet engine,

Oooooh... an interesting one as far as intellectual property law goes.
The jet engine is actually what is termed "coincidental creation" - developed by Whittle (English) and Ohain (German) at the same time.
IIRC, Ohain's design is first in time; however Whittle's is operational 3 months prior to the German's.

Sure, I'll give you that one.

the trains and railways,

The earliest evidence of a railway was a 6-kilometre (3.7 mi) Diolkos wagonway, which transported boats across the Corinth isthmus in Greece during the 6th century BC. Trucks pushed by slaves ran in grooves in limestone, which provided the track element. The Diolkos ran for over 600 years.

After the Dark Ages they began reappearing in Germany and Austria.

Steam locomotives you get a point for though.

1/2

the lawnmower,

WOOO. GOT THIS ONE!!

the Christmas card, the Valentine card,

Yeah, but is that really something to be proud of?

the postage stamp,

yep

the pencil,

I think the Egyptians and Romans beat you to it.
First use of graphite is the Germans and first to encase in wood is apparently the Italians.

the clockwork radio,

Helps prevent AIDS somehow too

the cardiac pacemaker,

Apparently it was written about applying electrical impulses to the heart in the British Medical Journal, but the artificial pacemaker was made and patented by an American.

sharthand,

??

mobile phone text messaging,

Sema Group plc was an Anglo-French IT services company. Half a point.

DNA

You can't invent a naturally occurring substance.

I guess if you're a creationist and you believe god is English... but it's a stretch.

football, rugby, cricket, tennis,

Yep you get all of those with the caveat that modern football and modern tennis.

golf,

Scotland!

the typewriter, fingerprinting, iris recognition, the adjustable spanner, the gas turbine, the internal combustion engine, the lighbulb, the iron bridge, the hydraulic crane, table tennis, hockey, badminton, modern boxing, darts, snooker, rounders, bowls, the modern Olympics, the Paralympics, the Lonsdale Belt, polo, Thoroughbred Horseracing, the tank, the fighter aircraft, the Dreadnought, the Bouncing Bomb, the depth charge, the stun grenade, the rubber band, the tin can, the lighswitch, the dishwasher, the electric toaster, the mousetrap, the corkscrew, the tin can, the fire extinguisher, the microchip, the wind tunnel, the concertina, the tuning fork, the motion picture camera, the movie projector, cinematography, the mathematical equals sign, calculus, the Faraday cage, infrared radiation, holography, the discovery of gravity, evolution, oxygen, the atom, the electron, the proton, the neutron, dinosaurs, Uranus, Triton, the planetarium, spiral galaxies, the structure of DNA, the cat's eye, the seat belt, traffic lights, the hovercraft, the lifeboat, the sextant, the diving bell, the hydrofoil, the screw propellor, SS Great Britain - the world's first steam-powered, screw propeller-driven passenger liner with an iron hull, the rubber balloon, plastic, plasticene, carbonated soft drinks, the friction match, the arts festival, the music festival, the literary festival, the Metric system, the railway ticket, the Boy Scouts, the Venn Diagram, bangers and mash, fish and chips, black pudding, bubble and squeak, cheddar cheese, the Cornish pasty, the Kendal mint cake, jellied eels, ice cream, Lancashire hotpot, Marmite, the pancake, the pork pie, the Scotch egg, gravy, Yorkshire pudding, Sunday Roast, Toad in the Hole, Shepherd's Pie and the sandwich.

I'm bored. Anyone want to take over?

K-9

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

A German, Paul Nipkow, proposed and patented the first electromechanical television system in 1884. However, it was not until 1907 that developments in amplification tube technology, by Lee DeForest (American) and Arthur Korn (German) among others, made the design practical.
Arguably the first "modern" design of the current TV is created and patented by American, Philo Farnsworth.


Alexander Graham Bell (Scottish) is credited as the inventor of the modern telephone, however, its components were thought of and many unsuccessful types of telephone were invented by others prior to Bell.

Just in case you think my "gotcha" of it being Scottish instead of English is too pedantic; Italian Antonio Meucci was recognized for his pioneering work on the telephone by the United States House of Representatives in 2002. The resolution stated that "if Meucci had been able to pay the $10 fee to maintain the caveat after 1874, no patent could have been issued to Bell." No such patent could have issued to Bell in March 1876. If Meucci had renewed his caveat, he would have been given an opportunity to prove to the examiner that the device described in his caveat was the electromagnetic telephone described in Bell's patent application.

Technically this implies that Meucci invented the modern telephone in 1854.


Technically, analogue computers have been around since the Greek astrolabe of 150 B.C.

Frenchman, Charles Xavier Thomas created the first successful, mass-produced mechanical calculator in the 1800s.

American, George Stibitz is internationally recognized as one of the fathers of the modern digital computer. While working at Bell Labs in November 1937, Stibitz invented and built a relay-based calculator that he dubbed the "Model K" (for "kitchen table", on which he had assembled it), which was the first to calculate using binary form.

If you want to get really specific and talk about 3rd generation computers (i.e. those with microprocessors) the integrated circuit was invented by two Americans and the microprocessor invented by Intel.


I presume you're talking about ENQUIRE which evolved into the WWW, written by Tim Berners-Lee (English) - technically created while working at CERN and under CERN supervision. In accordance with employment law unfortunately this is CERN's invention.

I'll give you 3/4 invention on that one though.


Oooooh... an interesting one as far as intellectual property law goes.
The jet engine is actually what is termed "coincidental creation" - developed by Whittle (English) and Ohain (German) at the same time.
IIRC, Ohain's design is first in time; however Whittle's is operational 3 months prior to the German's.

Sure, I'll give you that one.


The earliest evidence of a railway was a 6-kilometre (3.7 mi) Diolkos wagonway, which transported boats across the Corinth isthmus in Greece during the 6th century BC. Trucks pushed by slaves ran in grooves in limestone, which provided the track element. The Diolkos ran for over 600 years.

After the Dark Ages they began reappearing in Germany and Austria.

Steam locomotives you get a point for though.

1/2


WOOO. GOT THIS ONE!!


Yeah, but is that really something to be proud of?


yep


I think the Egyptians and Romans beat you to it.
First use of graphite is the Germans and first to encase in wood is apparently the Italians.


Helps prevent AIDS somehow too


Apparently it was written about applying electrical impulses to the heart in the British Medical Journal, but the artificial pacemaker was made and patented by an American.


??



Sema Group plc was an Anglo-French IT services company. Half a point.


You can't invent a naturally occurring substance.

I guess if you're a creationist and you believe god is English... but it's a stretch.


I'm bored. Anyone want to take over?

Jaysus, you've the patience of a saint, anyway it has already been explained fish and chips aren't British, yet he goes onto include it again. QI said it isn't British so end of discussion!

FreudianSlippers

K-9 wrote: »

Jaysus, you've the patience of a saint, anyway it has already been explained fish and chips aren't British, yet he goes onto include it again. QI said it isn't British so end of discussion!

I was on bloody hold for about 20 minutes, so I just spent the waiting time doing that

Batsy

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

A German, Paul Nipkow, proposed and patented the first electromechanical television system in 1884. However, it was not until 1907 that developments in amplification tube technology, by Lee DeForest (American) and Arthur Korn (German) among others, made the design practical.

The Englishman, Shelford Bidwell, demonstrated a system which transmitted still photographs way back in 1881, before Nipkow.

Then John Logie Baird succeeded in demonstrating the transmission of moving silhouette images in London in 1925, and of moving, monochromatic images in 1926. Baird's scanning disk produced an image of 30 lines resolution, just enough to discern a human face, from a double spiral of lenses. This demonstration by Baird is generally agreed to be the world's first true demonstration of television

Arguably the first "modern" design of the current TV is created and patented by American, Philo Farnsworth.

He wouldn't have been able to create that modern design of television had a Brit not invented television in the first place.

Alexander Graham Bell (Scottish) is credited as the inventor of the modern telephone

I realise that Graham Bell was Scottish. If you read my post carefully I said that not all the inventions I listed were English inventions, but the vast majority of them were. The UK as a whole invented a lot more when you include the many inventions that the Scots and Welsh did. The UK basically invented the modern world.

Just in case you think my "gotcha" of it being Scottish instead of English is too pedantic; Italian Antonio Meucci was recognized for his pioneering work on the telephone by the United States House of Representatives in 2002. The resolution stated that "if Meucci had been able to pay the $10 fee to maintain the caveat after 1874, no patent could have been issued to Bell." No such patent could have issued to Bell in March 1876. If Meucci had renewed his caveat, he would have been given an opportunity to prove to the examiner that the device described in his caveat was the electromagnetic telephone described in Bell's patent application.

Technically this implies that Meucci invented the modern telephone in 1854.

It's just a shame for Meucci and those numpties who support his claim for being the inventor of the telephone that he did NOT actually transmit his voice or any other sound over his new device.

The first person to do so was the Brit Alexander Graham Bell who, in 1877, shouted "Mr. Watson -- come here -- I want to see you" which was heard over their telephone by an astonished Watson.

It was for that reason why Bell got the patent.

Technically, analogue computers have been around since the Greek astrolabe of 150 B.C.

The first ACTUAL (electronic) computer was the Colossus Mark 1 which was housed at Bletchley Park in Buckinghamshire in 1943 and 1944 and was used to decipher German codes.

American, George Stibitz is internationally recognized as one of the fathers of the modern digital computer.

He's small fry.

It is the Englishman, Alan Turing, who is widely considered to be the father of computer science and artificial intelligence. He also invented the Turing test, which to this day is a test of a machine's ability to exhibit intelligent behaviour

From 1945 to 1947 Turing lived in Church Street, Hampton, in south west London, while he worked on the design of the ACE (Automatic Computing Engine) at the National Physical Laboratory. He presented a paper on 19 February 1946, which was the first detailed design of a stored-program computer.

In 1948, he was appointed Reader in the Mathematics Department at Manchester (now part of The University of Manchester). In 1949, he became Deputy Director of the computing laboratory at the University of Manchester, and worked on software for one of the earliest stored-program computers—the Manchester Mark 1. During this time he continued to do more abstract work, and in "Computing machinery and intelligence" (Mind, October 1950), Turing addressed the problem of artificial intelligence, and proposed an experiment which became known as the Turing test, an attempt to define a standard for a machine to be called "intelligent". The idea was that a computer could be said to "think" if a human interrogator could not tell it apart, through conversation, from a human being. In the paper, Turing suggested that rather than building a program to simulate the adult mind, it would be better rather to produce a simpler one to simulate a child's mind and then to subject it to a course of education. A reversed form of the Turing test is widely used on the Internet; the CAPTCHA test is intended to determine whether the user is a human or a computer.

In 1948, Turing, working with his former undergraduate colleague, D. G. Champernowne, began writing a chess program for a computer that did not yet exist. In 1952, lacking a computer powerful enough to execute the program, Turing played a game in which he simulated the computer, taking about half an hour per move. The game was recorded. The program lost to Turing's colleague Alick Glennie, although it is said that it won a game against Champernowne's wife.

His Turing test was a significant and characteristically provocative and lasting contribution to the debate regarding artificial intelligence, which continues after more than half a century.

He also invented the LU decomposition method in 1948, used today for solving an equations matrix

I presume you're talking about ENQUIRE which evolved into the WWW, written by Tim Berners-Lee (English) - technically created while working at CERN and under CERN supervision. In accordance with employment law unfortunately this is CERN's invention.

Tim Berners-Lee invented both ENQUIRE and the World Wide Web. It doesn't matter where he did it.

As a result, he has received several accolades. In 1999, Time Magazine named Berners-Lee one of the 100 Most Important People of the 20th Century; On 15 April 2004, he was named as the first recipient of Finland's Millennium Technology Prize, for inventing the World Wide Web; on 27 January 2005, he was named Greatest Briton of 2004; In 2011, he was inducted into IEEE Intelligent Systems' AI's Hall of Fame for the "significant contributions to the field of AI and intelligent systems.

Oooooh... an interesting one as far as intellectual property law goes.
The jet engine is actually what is termed "coincidental creation" - developed by Whittle (English) and Ohain (German) at the same time.
IIRC, Ohain's design is first in time; however Whittle's is operational 3 months prior to the German's.

Rubbish.

In 1928, RAF College Cranwell cadet Frank Whittle formally submitted his ideas for a turbo-jet to his superiors. In October 1929 he developed his ideas further. On 16 January 1930 in England, Whittle submitted his first patent (granted in 1932). The patent showed a two-stage axial compressor feeding a single-sided centrifugal compressor.

The German, Hans von Ohain, didn't start work on a similar design until 1935.

The earliest evidence of a railway was a 6-kilometre (3.7 mi) Diolkos wagonway, which transported boats across the Corinth isthmus in Greece during the 6th century BC. Trucks pushed by slaves ran in grooves in limestone, which provided the track element. The Diolkos ran for over 600 years.

I don't consider trucks pushed by people to be a railway. A railway is what the British invented in the early 1800s.

Yeah, but is that really something to be proud of?

Why wouldn't it be? Valentine cards and Christmas cards are loved the world over. We should be proud that Brits invented these things that bring a little joy to people's lives.

First use of graphite is the Germans and first to encase in wood is apparently the Italians.

Some time before 1565 (some sources say as early as 1500), an enormous deposit of graphite was discovered on the approach to Grey Knotts from the hamlet of Seathwaite in Borrowdale parish, Cumbria, England. The locals found that it was very useful for marking sheep. This particular deposit of graphite was extremely pure and solid, and it could easily be sawn into sticks

Apparently it was written about applying electrical impulses to the heart in the British Medical Journal, but the artificial pacemaker was made and patented by an American.

In 1899, J A McWilliam reported in the British Medical Journal of his experiments in which application of an electrical impulse to the human heart in asystole caused a ventricular contraction and that a heart rhythm of 60-70 beats per minute could be evoked by impulses applied at spacings equal to 60-70/minute. He did that before anyone else.

You can't invent a naturally occurring substance.

No, but you can discover it. And it was the English who discovered gravity, evolution, oxygen, the atom (and were also the first to split an atom), the proton, the electron, the neutron, hydrogen, Triton, Uranus, dinosaurs, Halley's Comet, spiral galaxies and coined the term "Big Bang."

I guess if you're a creationist and you believe god is English... but it's a stretch

Well, someone once said that God is an Englishman.

Scotland!

I never said all the inventions I listed are English inventions. They are still all British inventions, though.

Batsy

K-9 wrote: »

Jaysus, you've the patience of a saint, anyway it has already been explained fish and chips aren't British, yet he goes onto include it again. QI said it isn't British so end of discussion!

Fish and chips were invented in Manchester by an Englishman named Mr Lees.

Therefore, fish and chips are an English invention. End of.

marienbad

Batsy wrote: »

Fish and chips were invented in Manchester by an Englishman named Mr Lees.

Therefore, fish and chips are an English invention. End of.

and don't forget the concentration camp Batsy. End of.

Batsy

marienbad wrote: »

and don't forget the concentration camp Batsy. End of.

That was invented in Poland by the Russians in the 18th Century.

It is nothing more than an Irish myth that the British invented the concentration camp. End of.

marienbad

Batsy wrote: »

That was invented in Poland by the Russians in the 18th Century.

It is nothing more than an Irish myth that the British invented the concentration camp. End of.

Rubbish ! the British invented the concentration camp . End of. Fact.