Vaccines

Stark

mr.mickels wrote: »

New Study: Vaccinated Children Have 2 to 5 Times More Diseases and Disorders Than Unvaccinated Children

I am pleased I refuse vaccines for my family. This study involved 8000 unvaccinated children. Those who have been manipulated by the Pharma industry and their doctors to accept vaccines won't like this.

http://healthfreedoms.org/2011/10/14/big-study-vaccinated-kids-2-5-more-diseases-than-unvaccinated/

How can this be an unbiased survey when only parents of unvaccinated children were allowed particpate? Real clinical trials have fully randomised samples (the researchers don't get to decide how the randomisation is done) and double blinding (the researchers don't know who they're taking results from so bias has less chance of creeping in). This survey on the other hand is cherry picking of the highest order.

wolfpawnat

My wee man is vaccinated. I never even thought of not vaccinating him. MMR and Meningitis are 4 things I am not going to risk him getting for love nor money. Dipheria killed my aunt (albeit in the 1950's) as my family still talk about her, that kept that in my mind, and tetanus is essential for accident prone children, that said this is merely my opinion, I respect other people will disagree, but I rather the smaller risk of what may happen by these tried and tested vaccines, than risk the slightly larger percentile of what is more likely to happen without them.

I know it is cruel to hear them whimper and cry from the vaccines, you feel terrible, but I really do believe it is a small price for their better good. As lolli stated in one of her posts about looking after her sick daughter, my fear of my son with tubes all over him and him lying near lifeless is for me, and indeed for most other parents, is something I wish never to see! I would not be able to live with myself, were I the reason his life was terribly impaired because of something I could have prevented. I want him to have the best chance of any life he wants, I can only help make that happen.

Then again children grow up without vaccines and never get sick either, so who is to say I am right (I am not saying I am, I am saying I believe I am with regards to my own child).

I never became immune to rubella, despite 3 vaccines against it. I wonder is this a regular occurance?

Dave!

mr.mickels wrote: »

Another article on vaccinations some may find of interest.

ALL the Vaccines Are Contaminated - Every Last One of Them

"The chief, if not the sole, cause of the monstrous increase in cancer has been vaccination" - Dr. Robert Bell, once Vice President International Society for Cancer Research at the British Cancer Hospital
http://www.salem-news.com/articles/november292011/vaccines-contaminated-se.php

http://tinyurl.com/bnzhr2e

Why have you moved onto posting another article instead of addressing the points made regarding the last one you posted? Here, I'll post it again for your benefit:

F.A. wrote: »

I quote from this "study":



I stopped reading there. How can a website called "vaccineinjury.info" in any way, shape or form, be considered independent and unbiased? And a "homeopathic practitioner"?? I am not sure whether to laugh or to cry, so I just shake my head instead. Have you any idea of what this nonsense called homeopathy actually entails? And that's leaving aside the fact that this "study" was done via internet questionnaire... Seriously?

You willing to accept that that study is bullsh*t? And then we can move onto the next one you posted.

This is how anti-vax proponents operate - they show study after study after study and hope that they can blind people by the quantity of the studies, and just hope that the people reading have no interest in reading beyond the headline, or don't have the knowledge to critique what they read. One good quality study with a large cohort completely trumps a dozen flawed ones.

For interested parents, here's a good summary from a scientific blog which critiques and summarises research on the subject. The contributors are all qualified physicians, neurologists, infectious disease specialists, researchers, etc. As opposed to homeopaths...

trowel

trowel wrote: »

Statement from Clinton R. Miller, Intensive Immunization Programs, May 15th and 16th, 1962. Hearings before the Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce House of Representatives, 87th congress, second session on H.R. 10541.

And? Does this have any relevance, other than the fact that you liked what the guy said - all of nearly 50 years ago?

mr.mickels

Dr Maurice Hilleman, former head of virus and cell dept at Merck discusses the vaccines role in spreading AIDS and Cancers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-lcDZkeYhs

Stark

You still haven't addressed any of the points made regarding your previous articles. I could post article after article here about how shape shifting lizards rule the world (believe me there are lots out there) and it wouldn't make it true. I've think you've well and truly lost the argument anyway when you start to make conspiracy theory claims like HIV was started deliberately.

F.A.

I would hope the OP study the following chart carefully before engaging further in this thread, but I suppose that would be optimism to the point of foolishness. So instead, I hope it's of benefit to the posters here who are still trying to actually discuss the pros and cons of vaccinations with the OP. You might come to agree that it's a pointless exercise and save yourself the trouble.

January

Mod Note:
As stated previously, if you have problems with posts, report them. Don't reply on thread with smart comments and diagrams on how to discuss things.

angelfire9

cbyrd wrote: »

It would be interesting to see how many of the people commenting have had measles mumps rubella meningitis or polio? i've had 3 of them, this is why i chose to vaccinate my children.
Even the chicken pox, which is not thought to be serious, can be very dangerous to some people

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Chickenpox/Pages/Complications.aspx

I've had rubella and have hearing loss and impaired sight in my left eye.. this will get worse
http://www.deafblindireland.org/index.php/eng/Useful-Links-Information/What-is-Rubella

Most otherwise healthy children recover from measles just fine. In 20 to 30 percent of measles cases, the child will develop some kind of complication, like diarrhea or an ear infection.

Measles can have serious complications in a small percentage of cases.. what if your child was in that small percentage??

http://www.babycenter.com/0_measles_1417820.bc?page=2#articlesection4

Other less likely but possible difficulties include pneumonia, meningitis, encephalitis (inflammation of the brain), and — very rarely — other serious brain complications. Complications are more likely in children younger than 5 years old and adults 20 and older.

Mumps while not as serious can cause infertility in men..
http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=43#44

Vaccinations are a personal choice but until you have suffered a lifetime of the complications that the disease's bring, as i have, you don't really have the full information of what you could potentially put your child through.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.. but damaging another's health for that opinion is just silly. vague unsubstantiated vaccine side effects to known disease side effects.. i know what i choose

I've had measles, mumps, chicken pox, whooping cough and rubella (twice)
Rubella in vitro left me with no hearing in one ear....zero, zilch, nada which believe me can cause major problems from simple things like not hearing a car approaching until it is on top of you, to having to take my leaving cert aural exams separately from the rest of my class
The risks from the diseases outweigh the risk from the vaccines
As someone who has suffered the consequence of the disease(s) I'd rather spare my children thanks all the same!!!

mr.mickels

mr.mickels wrote: »

Dr Maurice Hilleman, former head of virus and cell dept at Merck discusses the vaccines role in spreading AIDS and Cancers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-lcDZkeYhs

Given that your previous comment referred to a cancer research body that doesn't exist, a hospital in Britain that doesn't exist - and to a doctor who if he existed at all was working in the Edwardian era - that's probably a fake as well.

For the record, Maurice Hilleman - aside from developing vaccines that saved millions of lives - was one of the people who discovered that using simian cells to develop vaccines was a potentially unsafe practice, and so got that practice stopped.

He did this in 1961, which as they say wasn't today or yesterday.

OldNotWIse

F.A. wrote: »

I would hope the OP study the following chart carefully before engaging further in this thread, but I suppose that would be optimism to the point of foolishness. So instead, I hope it's of benefit to the posters here who are still trying to actually discuss the pros and cons of vaccinations with the OP. You might come to agree that it's a pointless exercise and save yourself the trouble.

LOVE this chart!

Gurgle

In the news today:
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/report-reveals-massive-jump-in-measles-cases-532848.html
Here's the report (reads like a half-stoned tabloid journo wrote it, but then I guess the HPSC is part of the HSE so what do you expect):
http://www.hpsc.ie/hpsc/News/MainBody,13095,en.aspx

Measles cases increased by 149% in 2010, with 403 cases notified compared with 162 cases in 2009. 108 of these cases were hospitalised in 2010. Forty separate measles outbreaks were reported during the year. Cases predominantly occurred in the traveller and Roma communities and amongst those who choose not to have their children vaccinated against vaccine preventable diseases.

nesf

Honestly, if you've any kind of open mind and any understanding of what evidence is and isn't and what the risks of not vaccinating are, then you cannot research early childhood vaccines and not decide to vaccinate your kids. If you don't know what I mean by evidence here you really shouldn't be countermanding your doctor's advice here. Really.

Edit: Listen to the WHO, listen to your GP who is probably more sceptical about pharma companies than you are, listen to Ben Goldacre a doctor who has written books decrying the pharma industry yet will still tell you that you should vaccinate. Etc. Etc.

nesf

nesf wrote: »

Listen to the WHO....

That's good advice for my generation.

*ahem, couldn't resist*

Stark

nesf wrote: »

listen to Ben Goldacre a doctor who has written books decrying the pharma industry yet will still tell you that you should vaccinate.

+1. "Bad Science" is a must read.

uck51js9zml2yt

I was listening to the radio this morning on vaccination.
The figures are that about 90% of children are now being vacinated.

The problem with outbreaks is the 10% who aren't vacinated, get the disease and then pass it on.
I've seen the effects of polio. A friend cant walk because of it and either users crutches(he has very strong shoulder muscles after all the years) or a wheelchair to get around. His legs are useless.

My brother got measles when young and it damaged his heart. He eventually died and left a wife and kids without a father.

Why anyone would not vacinate their kids is beyond me. IMO its like putting your child in the car and not using a seatbelt and hoping nothing happens.
We were going to Portugal with our 11 month old and got his MMR done a month early because of the risk of measles.

If the risks are there and its not conclusive then people need to weight it against the greater risk of getting the disease.

gar32

Sorry to bring this back to life but at last some new studies are been done.

mod edit: antivax site link removed

gar32

The media are hiding the fact that there are issue with vaccines. Children die children get sick from vaccines and unless the issue is faced with truth and lots of questions with the best answers we can give more and more people will chose not to give vaccines to their children. We need the truth not back door word of mouth. Better vaccines with real studies. ?Open and real talks?with all interest people.?

Penny Dreadful

Vaccinations work. Doctors and other healthcare professionals get their children and themselves vaccinated. If there was anything wrong with vaccines I doubt they would.
I was born before the MMR was available and saw my brother almost die from measels.
I now have two children and have gotten them vaccinated for all of the recommended vaccines. I am also getting them vaccinated for Men B (both were born before it became part of the regular vaccination schedule). I would also have gotten the chicken pox vaccine if they hadn't gotten the Pox anyway.

I almost lost my son a few days after he was born as both of us got meningitis. It was the most horrific time in my life. If there see vaccines out there to prevent anything like that happening again I'd gladly take them.
I am also immune suppressed and so really rely on herd immunity. For that along with common sense I would always choose to vaccinate.

Orion

gar32 wrote: »

Sorry to bring this back to life but at last some new studies are been done.

Just because you're banned from Health Sciences doesn't mean that you can come to Parenting to spout your antivax nonsense. This is your one, and only, warning. Next time you do this it's a permanent bye bye from this forum.

I'm also removing the link to that science-denying antivax blog you call evidence.

shesty

I looked through that blog link quickly.It's not really evidence of anything.It's a lot of extrapolations from a study whose results could be linked to any number of things.My thought on reading it was that for every one study like that, several more could be produced to prove that vaccines are beneficial.

If you want to not vaccinate, that's your choice, but consistently feeling you have to produce evidence to support your decision is not going to change the fact that your choice could have extremely serious consequences for members of society that cannot be vaccinated.No evidence or study can change that.

Lumina

I would be interested in knowing peoples thoughts on the chickenpox vax for babies. It would be handy not to have to take a fortnight off work for looking after kids and its under 200euros for the course private.
Anyone considering/done?

angeldelight

Lumina wrote: »

I would be interested in knowing peoples thoughts on the chickenpox vax for babies. It would be handy not to have to take a fortnight off work for looking after kids and its under 200euros for the course private.
Anyone considering/done?

I intended to get it but put it on the long finger for too long and my little girl got cp before she was two. I will definitely get it next time round though. There may be a booster needed when child is older

brokensoul

Lumina wrote: »

I would be interested in knowing peoples thoughts on the chickenpox vax for babies. It would be handy not to have to take a fortnight off work for looking after kids and its under 200euros for the course private.
Anyone considering/done?

Can anyone tell me what optional vaccines are there?

I have only a handle on the recommended 2,4,6,12 and 13 ones but am clueless about the rest.

jlm29

brokensoul wrote: »

Can anyone tell me what optional vaccines are there?

I have only a handle on the recommended 2,4,6,12 and 13 ones but am clueless about the rest.

You can get men b and chicken pox. If your child was born after oct 1st last year (I think that's the date anyhow), men b is on the schedule. There might be others, but these are the two extras most commonly sought, from what I can see

brokensoul

jlm29 wrote: »

You can get men b and chicken pox. If your child was born after oct 1st last year (I think that's the date anyhow), men b is on the schedule. There might be others, but these are the two extras most commonly sought, from what I can see

Thanks for that. Ill have a chat about them with my GP when next I'm in.

uck51js9zml2yt

brokensoul wrote: »

Can anyone tell me what optional vaccines are there?

I have only a handle on the recommended 2,4,6,12 and 13 ones but am clueless about the rest.

Depending on age, chicken pox and men b.
My 2 got CP last year just before we went on holidays...was close!
I got them the men b Vax though. 140 per shot but worth it.

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

jlm29

jacksie66 wrote: »

I don't care if I get pulled on this but I think people who are anti vaccine are some of the thickest people going. Do these people want to bring back diseases like polio, TB and the likes. Do they want to see kids in Iron Lungs. Do they want to see their children and children who genuinely can't get vaccinated die from easily preventable diseases. It's selfish and irresponsible, just because they read something on the web. I've seen first hand what meningitis can do to people. Why do people want to leave themselves and their kids open to this?

I think they're piggy-backing on the herd immunity really. Those kids are quite unlikely to contract a lot of the diseases, and you'll hear "I didn't get vaccines, and my kids were grand". But they're relying on the fact that the majority of parents do vaccinate their kids to keep theirs safe.
But otherwise, I don't know why parents take the chance. The mind boggles

pwurple

It's inability to assess risk correctly. Basically like messing up their maths homework. A lot of people are innumerate. It's just a hunch, but the anti-vaxxers I know personally, maths would be their weak subject.

I don't think there is malice in it, if there is, it's blinkered selfishness rather than actual desire to harm and kill sick children (which is the end result).